[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The MESH. Hey everybody, I'm Amy Chang, a nurse, a mom and a health coach, and this is Healthy AF, where honesty and humor and heart meet real talk about feeling good again, inside and out.
[00:00:23] We're cutting through the noise, dropping the guilt, and reminding you, getting healthy isn't about perfection. It's about choosing yourself. One loving decision out of time. Let's get into it. Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of Healthy AF. My name is Amy Chang, and I'm a health coach here with Healthy Life Health and Wellness Coaching. And I'm really delighted to be continuing our series on midlife divorce with my friend, Susie Brown.
[00:00:52] We've told stories, we've swapped lies that we've told ourselves in our heads and things that we've dealt with. And victories. Victories. We've talked about victories and we're getting to more and more of those victories. This episode, I'm going to bring us right through from, I'm going to give you a timeline. If you're listening, this will be more fun for you on YouTube.
[00:01:18] But a timeline of Susie got divorced at 54, 3 maybe. I got divorced at 44. And we've gone through the initial crazy zone. And now we're beginning to get support for ourselves. And Susie has created a group of women who are supporting each other and really beginning to develop this plan for midlife divorce recovery.
[00:01:46] And so in this episode, she's going to get to tell us what it looked like from starting at eight or nine women who got together and really supported each other to what it has become. So we'll just dig right in. Sounds good. Sounds good. Yeah. So Susie, you started your support group. You met them with a folder the first day they came over. It had certain things in it.
[00:02:12] Tell me more about how that went from we're meeting and I'm making materials and I'm determined, damn it, that God is using this for something for somebody else. Tell me how that happened. Well, I was just I was just praying about it all the time. And I was seeing how much it helped me, that small group and how much it helped the other women.
[00:02:40] And so word of mouth. Next thing I know, some churches wanted to provide provide resources for women going through this. And, you know, it's very sad. Our churches, our churches don't know what to do with this either. They agree. Agree. Agree.
[00:02:59] I would cry myself through services because I was so sad that he was not there with me or, you know, so it's it just I don't know. I just started talking with people and people in the group started talking. And so they just said to friends of theirs, you need to you need to call Susie.
[00:03:27] So once that happened, word of mouth just kind of went and I started doing it regularly at a couple of churches. And one of the women who came to one of my groups, her her brother was a priest in the Catholic Church. And so she said, we really need this. But it's it's you can hardly talk about it. You know, I don't want to get too much into to that.
[00:03:54] But we did a group at one of the parishes and it was just the same thing. You know, we limited to a certain number of people. And so we had that number of people in the first group. And it was just so powerful that she or her brother said, I think you need to talk to the Presbyteral Council or whatever it is.
[00:04:22] It's you know, that covers the St. Joe area or something. And so Grady and I went and talked about the program and what it was all about and everything. And at the end of our presentation, they had a vote and said, does any do any of you need this think you need this in your parish every single hand? Oh, wow. Yeah. And they said, you know, it's a very touchy topic for for us. Yeah.
[00:04:53] And so I started doing the programs at certain parishes around around and then other churches would call and say, you know, we hear you've got a program that's helpful. And it just kind of grew by word of mouth. And I was I was involved with a church that had a big conference like at Pepperdine University or any of the Christian colleges, the Church of Christ colleges.
[00:05:21] And so they would have me give a presentation to resources. You know, there's always a section of resources for help for the community. And so I ended up giving giving programs to the people, decision makers from churches. And so it just kind of spread like that. So was it did you have the online presence by this time, too? Or was this just the 10 weeks? Yeah, that was it was just. Yeah.
[00:05:51] The actual groups and stuff. Did you facilitate all those groups, Susie, or did you give them just the materials and cut them loose? After it got to be so much, you know, I would designate another leader who was willing to. And it's so easy to lead because it's very well laid out every week what you're supposed to cover. And I give tips to the presenters and, you know, ways that you can make it more effective and make it more cohesive group.
[00:06:20] But we kept the same rules of not more than 12 people because so much of the recovery part is talking through things. And if you have too many people, 10 people is really a good number. But you can sometimes do it with 12. But it just it you want to share. And each woman sharing her victories helps the whole group. Absolutely.
[00:06:45] Each one sharing what they didn't do so well makes you feel not so bad when you're thinking, how could I have done that? You know, so that small group. And it's funny that Jesus picked the 12 disciples. So that's a pretty good number. Yeah. Yeah. Like when I'm in a group coaching, I think eight to eight to 12 is a sweet spot. Yeah. A little bit less than that, you know, four or five works. Yeah.
[00:07:14] But once you get eight, you get so many more diverse. It's diverse, but the same. I mean, we said that when we first started talking, you know, your divorce and your end of your marriage looked different than my divorce and the end of my marriage. And yet it was same, same. The crazy thoughts, the overwhelm, the, you know, the things that needed to be done and learned and processed. Yeah.
[00:07:38] And to, and to let, have enough time for each woman to contribute, you know, having more than 12, it's kind of hard. Yeah. And people can hide. Yeah. Right. So it's, it's harder to hide when there's, you know, eight of you or 10 of you or 12 max. Yeah. You get a little higher than that and it's easy to sit in the back and not ghost. Yeah. And that's not this.
[00:08:05] The leader guide, you know, I have a whole part of it. It's a leader guide that kind of helps you learn how to get people involved in the conversation if they're hesitant to do that. Right. It's just a lot of tools about topics to cover if you're in this chapter or things that are helpful for that kind of recovery. So it's, it's just very well laid out.
[00:08:31] And that's, I think, voice, you know, someone who doesn't have any leadership position in the church, just any woman can take this program and be the leader because you have such good information about what you do every step along the way. Yeah. And it's so. I felt so too. I looked through that. Um, you know, when I started looking at your materials, um, I downloaded a lot and I get, I get into overwhelm like that.
[00:09:01] I don't know, especially when it comes to reading, reading, you know, I just, it just takes me a minute. Right. So, um, I downloaded all these materials and I'm like, Oh my God, I've got to read all these. And I start looking through and I'm immediately, immediately impressed with the way that the materials for the 10 week group coaching program sets up why you're there. Yeah.
[00:09:30] And your commitment for being there, not just to yourself, but to your peers. Yeah. Yep. And then, um, I thought it's huge. Yeah. And then, which is a, which is normal standard, like for people who don't know that standard in group coaching, right? Like, but if you skip that step, um, then you haven't, you got no foundation. Yeah.
[00:09:56] So then immediately reading some of the questions, the suggestions were like, Oh gosh. Um, some of the suggestions in my head, I was like, Oh, yep. I remember doing that. I remember doing that. I remember doing that. I remember this person telling me that, or, um, there were a few of them that I was like, Oh, I had to get that one the hard way. I wish that somebody would have told me about that one, you know, two, two weeks in instead of, you know, a year and a half, you know, so there were things like that.
[00:10:26] Um, but then as a, as a person who is committed to helping people become empowered and grow and be their best selves, I really loved the, um, journal prompts, the coaching questions that were in there. Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm . Right. It makes you think differently. Yeah.
[00:10:55] You have to verbalize it on paper. Yep. And so I loved, I really was impressed with that and, and the graphics are pretty. So. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.
[00:11:10] And you know, and it sounds like, um, it sounds frou-frou, but if I am fragile and going into a program that has graphics that are really big and bright and square and hard, then, I mean, I need everything around me to feel like cotton balls, Susie. You remember? Yes. Yes.
[00:11:36] I remember sitting in my hair cutters chair, that first haircut. And I was at the time wearing my hair very short, like man short, very short. I'd worn it like that for years. And he said, what do you want to do? And I was like, I just need something that looks feminine. I couldn't even, and he'd been my hairdresser for 15 years. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, I needed to be wrapped up in cotton balls.
[00:12:01] And I love the way that, um, that 10 week workbook that you have visually and, um, wording wise feels like, you know, that warm blanket that like, you're okay. We're going to wrap you up and also answer these hard questions. Right. You're safe. Make you talk about it. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I thought that that was great. So you started doing that in churches. Yeah.
[00:12:30] Uh, churches aren't set up to do those internally. So it worked rather well. Yeah, it was, it was, and it was becoming such a growing problem. And with my demographic, it was just unbelievable. Uh, so it's churches really embraced it. And I, you know, when I went back to journalism school, uh, I was focused on marketing and advertising.
[00:12:55] And so I had all these little tips about how to get the word out. And so I would call like the Kansas city star or, or whatever, and say, uh, how would you like to do an article on the holidays and divorce? And so I would put together an article that they could run in the paper and give them my information and things like that. That's awesome.
[00:13:19] And so, uh, it, that was, that was a wonderful gift that I had learned, just learned about doing that kind of thing. It was a radical gift. Yeah. And, and so that just, then you get to know the people who, uh, are in the different areas of getting the news out and they would call and they'd say, okay, we've got this coming up.
[00:13:45] Uh, how's that going to affect people who are going through divorce? And so I became the expert on, uh, tips and tools for just everybody in the community, uh, you know, about how to deal with an unwanted midlife divorce. So that it's, it's just amazing how all this worked together. I graduated, you know, with marketing and advertising.
[00:14:12] And so I was able to, uh, I went to a huge conference in Philadelphia about tips and tools on, on how you can let people know in the community about what you're offering. And, uh, it was just, it just all worked together really well. Hmm. And then you did all that before the website, right? Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm kind of slow to come to all the technology stuff.
[00:14:41] Grady, my son has just been God's sin. He's put together the whole website and he's just so patient. Okay. So to hear Grady tell it, he was really, um, he was in college. Maybe graduated from college at this time. And he was like, mom, we got to do this. We got to make this online. And you were like, yeah, okay.
[00:15:04] I know he, he just so wonderful about sharing his gifts of he's very bright and he's a good person. And so, uh, he just, he, he was very instrumental in getting this out to the big picture of, of the larger audience.
[00:15:24] So then, you know, after, after I started giving lectures like at conferences, uh, of colleges or whatever, then they would take that information to, you know, to their smaller congregation or their small group or whatever. And so it just kind of spread like that. So I became kind of the, the area midlife divorce recovery person to go to if you wanted to, you know, you had questions about anything in that area.
[00:15:53] And so that was, that was just a great, great gift. Yeah. And now tell me, uh, help me with the timeline. When was it that you met your second husband during all this? Were you, it was about four years, three or four years. And I really wasn't, um, I wasn't feeling desperate to find someone, but I thought I'm still pretty young.
[00:16:22] I still would like to share my life with someone. And so it's, it's a coincidence, but he had some friends who said, Oh, just get on this website and try it out. Cause he had been divorced for quite a while. On the divorce, uh, midlife divorce recovery website. No, no. Oh, on a different one. Okay. Yeah.
[00:16:41] So, uh, just go on one of these dating websites and, and then, uh, he got some kind of free, free one month, something at the same time I went on. And it was, you know, I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this. He was, he was telling his friends, I don't want to do this, but we got on there at the same time.
[00:17:04] And one of the questions on whether about your compatibility was if you could meet someone anywhere in the world, where would it be? And so I answered fly fishing in Wyoming. He was this huge fisher. Really? He had his own boat. He had, so he answered and we, we didn't meet. He was traveling a lot at the time and we didn't really meet in person for months, but then we,
[00:17:32] we met at this place and one of my sons, uh, sent me this message. And he said, now, listen, I live just about, about five minutes away. So if he starts doing anything crazy, you call me immediately. And then another one said, uh, you know, don't get in the car. I know my kids are the same way. They mother me up one side and down the other. When I'm like, yeah, I saw a guy. He was really cute. Well, you know, you shouldn't be. You do.
[00:18:02] I'm like, I know. I'm not getting kidnapped today. It was so funny. It was so funny. But yeah. And we were married 20 years. And now when you met him and started kind of that part of your life, were you still doing, was that pre website? Were you still doing the, um, workshops? He was, he was, he was so instrumental in me sticking with this and doing following through
[00:18:31] on this and providing the resources. He said, you say you're an author. You say you've got lots of tips and tools. What are you doing? You know, you need. And so he was, he was very instrumental in, and my actually making this happen. Continuing the work. So, and he, he was a very strong Christian, went to mass every morning at 630 with his friends.
[00:18:57] And, um, so he was just very supportive about the whole thing. And so, so you, you meet your second husband, you're in the midst of doing all this. You have your journalism degree. You're writing like, like the wind. Grady, your son has been like, Hey mom, let's make this a website. You create divorce, uh, midlife divorce recovery.com. Yeah. And let's talk about that website a minute. What, what's the purpose?
[00:19:28] If you just had to tell anybody, what's the, what's the purpose of, of that recovery? Well, we, we, our goal was to give them some immediate tools that they could use on their own, you know, and, and even providing the book and the, uh, you know, the midlife divorce recovery kind of master plan and, um, that a person could go through on their own, you know, without starting a group or anything like that.
[00:19:57] So that's how we started just to give them a single person. If they wanted to, they could get the materials, get the master plan and work through it themselves. And so that's kind of, uh, just one thing that we offered, uh, as far as, as, you know, tools and tips, they would get a packet. I love the package we would send because it had like, it had some special soap in it for a shower.
[00:20:27] It had a nighttime thing to put over your eyes to sleep and how to loofah. And, Hey, I thought that was brilliant by the way. I'm just going to pop in and interrupt in your workbook that you're like, buy yourself a special soap. And I'm not going to lie at first when I saw that, cause I'm not, I don't identify as like a really frou, frou, girly girl. I had an eye roll. When it said, buy yourself a smelly soap that you like, I was like, Oh, for Pete's sake.
[00:20:56] And then you described exactly how that was to be used and the intent behind that. Yeah. And I thought it was a brilliant way of helping people who are feeling frantic and powerless and horrible and defeated become present, especially when you've got the thoughts that are just bombarding you all the time. And just for anyone listening.
[00:21:24] So Susie said, go buy yourself a frou, frou soap that you love and use it in the shower. And when you're in the shower, smell your soap, which gets you into your senses, which gets you present. And then she went on to give several cues about how to use your senses, that somatic presencing, which is like, that's such good coaching. I read that and I was like, Oh my gosh, she's a genius.
[00:21:55] I mean, I, I don't know. I just, it just, and another thing I'm so passionate about is for us to be thankful for our lives, regardless of what's going on. And if you can stand in that shower and say, just thank you, God, that I have this clear, clean, hot water that I can take a shower from head to toe anytime I want to.
[00:22:22] And so many times we just, that stuff just passes by us. We never think about what a gift that is. Every day we can just go into the shower and smell this wonderful fragrance and clean ourselves from head to toe. And cue up gratitude. Yeah. That was so huge because even though we're going through this divorce, we have so much to be
[00:22:51] grateful for single day. Yeah. And then we just, we just blow it off half the time, not ever stopping and saying, Oh my gosh, this is such a gift. It's, it's such a perception, perception shift. I had a coach who's one of my favorite mentors and coaches. And she just say to me, I've said this a billion times on the podcast. Um, yeah, I mean, you're not getting what you want when you want it as fast as you want it. Yeah.
[00:23:19] And, and when I'm in that perspective, I am not in gratitude and I'm not in present. I'm most likely in future or past and there's no happiness and there's no light of God shining out of me. It's just, it's just all me and, and, uh, and a lovely adult sized temper tantrum happening. So, uh, internal, even if it's just an internal temper tantrum, I know what's happening.
[00:23:48] Um, and so I just thought that the way you brought that into, to your work was fabulous. Well, and just, you know, just having in hand like the survival six card. And I also, a lot of times would put in a little packet of 12 different verses or, uh, thoughts of wisdom, you know, from different people. So, uh, just little things to remind them that life is still good.
[00:24:14] You still have so many good things in your life and don't spend another day wallowing in this pity and saying, woe is me, because you've got an opportunity to influence so many people, especially when you're going through something really hard. And you kind of show to other people that there's a way to still do that graciously and gracefully
[00:24:41] as many times as we fail with midlife divorce recovery, sometimes and do the ridiculous things. People will, people will not judge us on some of the stupid things we did because they can kind of understand how that's possible, but they need to also see us just full of, of joy and gratitude and just an awareness of the beauty of life. It's, we just miss that so much.
[00:25:11] Yeah. Yeah. It can be very easy when you have a massive change like that in your life to not see all the things that you have and all the joy. Yep. So, okay. So, um, I'm going to suggest that we wrap that right there. Uh, we'll have one more podcast in this little, I guess, four set that Susie and I have shared this conversation with y'all.
[00:25:39] Um, primarily, uh, because there's a future, a future chapter for midlife divorce and recovery. Um, one that brought us kind of together and I wanted to let everybody in on how, how midlife divorce recovery got started. Who's it for? What's the usefulness of it? And what's the next chapter? So that'll be in our next episode. You'll have to tune into next week. We're going to leave you hanging on that.
[00:26:09] All right. All right. See you next time. Thanks for hanging out with me today on healthy AF. I hope something you heard helps you take one small kind step toward your healthiest self. If you love this episode, hit subscribe. So you never miss a conversation. And if you want more support, head over to my healthy life.coach to connect with me.
[00:26:38] Remember, you don't have to do it perfectly. You just have to start choosing you. See you next time. You've been listening to the mesh and online media network of shows and programs ranging from business to arts sports to entertainment, music to community.
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