You Do Not Have to Live This Way: Natalie’s Journey from Survival to Healing

[00:00:02] What You Want, When You Want It, Where You Want It. This is The MESH. Welcome to Conquer Your Past and Step Into Your Future, a space for real people navigating real struggles, anger, overwhelm, broken relationships, or that quiet ache of feeling disconnected. I'm Jennifer Bandy and I've been there, stuck in my own story, wondering if healing was even possible.

[00:00:29] But here's the truth, you don't have to stay stuck. This podcast isn't about quick fixes or pretending pain doesn't exist. It's about honest conversation, raw stories, and practical steps to heal what hurts and rediscover what's true. Today, I'm going to let you know a little bit more about me and why Walk With Me was created. You're not alone in this and we're walking through it together.

[00:00:56] Grab a drink, take a deep breath, and let's get real. Today, I would like to welcome Liz and Natalie. Just kind of forewarning everyone, we do have Natalie's little one with us. Yes. Right on cue. Right on cue. So you may hear a little bit of noise in the background. Just want to warn everybody. Yeah.

[00:01:25] Thank you, ladies, for joining today. I appreciate it. Natalie, I would like to kind of talk to you a little bit about your journey. Kind of what brought you to Walk With Me, what you experienced, if you're willing to share. Yes, I would love to. Hi, my name is Natalie. I've been with Walk With Me since 2023, the end of 2023, beginning of 2024.

[00:01:53] I have kind of a complex journey, but I grew up in a household that I suffered from severe abuse and included drug addiction. My father was an active addiction until I was about 13 or 14 years old. And my mom had a lot of maladaptive behaviors for the abuse that went on in her household.

[00:02:21] I had been to therapy, you can only imagine, in and out through my life, but I never really found anywhere that I felt as though they helped me. I felt as though people would hear my story, I'd talk in therapy, they would either cry or they would feel sorry for me, which I wasn't looking for someone to feel sorry for me.

[00:02:44] I was looking for, okay, I have these maladaptive behaviors that I've now created because it kept me safe when I was younger, right? And now I'm older, and these are no longer things that helped me. And so I need you to give me tools, help me so that I can survive and be able to be in society. And interestingly enough, I feel like when you're younger, you're a lot more resilient, for whatever reason.

[00:03:13] So really, it affected me, but I was able to kind of keep it in and kind of I would really internalize more so than anything. And so outwardly, people didn't really recognize anything. I kind of always had a smile on my face, pretended everything was good. No one really knew what happened in my household. And I kind of liked it that way. I only shared what I wanted to.

[00:03:39] I had a select group of girls that were my best friends growing up, and I still speak to all of them today. They were the only ones who really knew and they didn't even really know the extent of it. And as I got older, I started realizing that it really affected me just in ways that I didn't realize. I had a very hard time trusting anybody.

[00:04:07] So that included any female. I didn't, you know, making friends was difficult for me. People wanting to get close to me made me uncomfortable. So feeling like if you were trying to be my friend, I was like, what do you want or why? Something was always attached to it. Yes, there had to be a reason. It wasn't as though they just maybe liked me as a person. Yeah. I think that also had to do with the fact that I didn't really like myself very much.

[00:04:36] And I didn't realize that either. I always, I had, I was in and out of relationships. I would date someone for a year and then dump them because I felt for some odd reason, one of the maladaptive behaviors is once you hit a year, then they, then things start getting deep and then they have to know me and then they wouldn't like me. So I'm going to go ahead and end the relationship before they find out who I am and, and, and, and the relationship because of me.

[00:05:00] Um, I also gravitated towards men that weren't exactly good for me. I would say emotionally available. Yeah, there you go. That's good. I liked emotionally unavailable men because then I didn't have to give anything, you know, that was safe for me. Um, then I met my husband, um, in college and we, you know, ended up just being friends through college and then we rekindled after college.

[00:05:28] Um, that relationship really showed me kind of, um, where my issues lied. Um, like where I needed improvement and where I really struggled. Um, even he had trouble getting close to me. Um, I have a very hard time communicating because in my household there was no communication. It was, this is what you're doing because I said so.

[00:05:54] And if you have an emotion I don't have, I'm, I'm emotionally unavailable for you. So that's too much for me. So leave me alone. Yeah. You know, I'm struggling and like, I'm the one that matters. So get over it and go to your room was basically kind of how our household was. Everything was hidden. You know, um, I grew up in an Italian family. That's kind of how it is. You know, no one knows anything. Your life's perfect. Yeah. You know, um, I also grew up with family members.

[00:06:22] Um, and like my dad's side of the family that hit it. They didn't want to accept that my dad was an addict. They didn't want to help my mom. They didn't want to help us. They kind of wanted to turn to turn a blind eye almost. It was too much for them and they couldn't handle it. A lot of fear associated with that. Yeah, sure. A hundred percent. Um, I mean, even we lived in a, uh, I don't even know if they have them here, but we lived in a co-op. So that's basically essentially like little condominions.

[00:06:50] So, you know, my best friend literally lived next door to me and my other, like my other best friend lived literally like right out the, right out the door from me. Um, so you could hear everything like up and down. Um, and I just remember growing up and, you know, oftentimes people knew what was going on. They could hear it. Um, but when the police was called, nothing kind of came of it.

[00:07:15] So then also there was distrust with, you know, the justice system, which yeah, the police. Yeah. Like, you know, why, why didn't you do anything? You know, no one seemed to intervene, which bothered me. And I even struggle with that. Now my husband's an attorney and I'm like, you know, he worked with families and understands and you know, the, just how it works. And it's kind of something that I even struggle with because I think that early intervention is so important. Yeah.

[00:07:43] Um, but anytime my mom would take me to therapy, if I shared too much, then I was pulled out of therapy. Um, and that also was a problem. Yeah. Cause it wasn't safe. It wasn't keeping the secret. Yes. Um, which was something that, um, really messed with my head as well. Um, my mom was abusive, um, because my dad was abusive. So it kind of. Followed trickle down effect. Yes.

[00:08:10] Um, and that kind of, I would say shaped kind of my self-esteem. Um, it shaped how I thought of myself and what I could accomplish. Um, it shaped, it kind of put me in a box. I felt like, um, so the chaos that went on in my family, um, made me feel safe, uh, because of the fact that it was what I was comfortable with. Yeah. It was predictable chaos. Yes.

[00:08:40] So when I met my husband and I started dating him and I saw healthy, which I never really experienced before in any previous relationship that I had had because of my choices. Um, and also just in general, like his family compared to mine, it felt very uncomfortable for me. Um, I kind of like pushed it away almost. Yeah. You know, my in-laws are amazing people and they, you know, never gave up.

[00:09:09] I would be like, Oh, you're paying for things. This is weird. I don't need you to pay for anything. Oh, what do you want? Yeah. Like you're buying me gifts. I don't need your gifts. You know, like Christmas was always something that was very exciting in my house. You know, I love Christmas. It's my favorite holiday because no matter what was going on in my house, my mom made sure that Christmas was special. So usually the abuse would not be there for a couple of days. Oh, you got a reprieve. Yes.

[00:09:35] And I think it took me a really long time to recognize why Christmas meant so much to me. I also like spent a lot of time with my grandparents and I was very close with my grandparents. They essentially helped raise me. They were safe for me. Um, my aunt, my mom's sister, um, was my safe space. Um, and she, we would go to, you know, retreat to her house when things got really bad. And I, I didn't understand that as a kid until I got a little older.

[00:10:02] And, you know, I have a brother and he's older than me. And I think that for me at a younger age, I kind of picked up on what was going on. You know, everything was your dad's going on a business trip. That was my dad going to rehab. You know, my dad was abusive, but you know, that's all I knew. I didn't know that that wasn't how everybody's family was. Yeah. So I think for me, I knew at an early age, my brother kind of avoided.

[00:10:31] He like chose to pretend like it wasn't happening. Um, and my mom would feed into that, you know, and he would believe what she would say, whether or not he did, you know, all the time. I don't really know what age he kind of caught on, but I was the one who really was there for my mom. So my mom leaned on me in ways that also makes me be a motherly figure for everybody.

[00:10:56] I don't understand not how to not cater to people, not mother them. Um, because I always had to parent my parents. I mean, that's just growing up. I always did that. And so that I struggled with, um, with my husband because, you know, I would parent him. And like, I didn't want to, but I didn't know how to stop. And that became an issue for me. Um, I know.

[00:11:21] And I think that it's important to understand where that comes from and kind of that's what Julie helps me do, you know, decipher between, am I just being kind? Am I giving too much of myself, you know? And I kind of saw early on what was going on. I mean, I would tell my mom, leave my dad. I would go to the police station with her. I mean, I would do things that a 12, you know, 9, 10, 11, 12 year old should not ever have to know or do. Yeah.

[00:11:50] Um, and so all of that also stuck in my head. So the, the mist, the, the distrust of people also, I think kind of would blend. So it just, it wasn't just that I didn't trust people because I was abused because that, I mean, I didn't trust people because of the fact that like, I saw all this bad stuff happen. So I'm like, you know, I would wait for the next shoe to drop. Yep.

[00:12:18] So when things were good in my relationship with my husband, I would create chaos for no reason because I didn't understand it. I wasn't comfortable with it. I'm like, no, this can't be right. Like, no, you have to be screwing me over in some way. Yeah. Like, you know, our, our relationship like can't be this way. You can't be this way. It has to be that there's something wrong that you've done something wrong that you're, you know, planning on doing something wrong. And I would just loop and, and it would just be a cycle really.

[00:12:44] Um, and I didn't again, start to realize that either until I went to walk with me because I didn't really understand that. That's something you do. I just thought like, no, you know, this is who, like, this is what's happening. This, you know, and your brain is a funny, your brain is like, it doesn't even matter if it's happening. Like your brain is going to tell you what it is. Okay. And there are X, Y, and Z to, to factually point that that's happening and you convince yourself.

[00:13:13] So that's what's so important. I think about how you think and also about journaling because in your head, it all makes sense. And like, that's the thing people can say, other people are crazy. No, this person doesn't know, but really you don't know what they're thinking. You don't know what's inside their head. You don't know why they've developed this perspective. And it's, you know, a lot of times it's to keep them safe at some point. Oh, 100%. Yeah.

[00:13:41] And then, you know, you get to a point and you're just like, wait, this isn't real. Like I, I'm making this up or like, I'm seeing something from a different perspective, you know? And so then it would get to the point where I would say something and my husband just didn't see it from that perspective. He just didn't understand. And he's like, I don't get it. Like, you know, and I, I will be honest. I didn't share a lot of, of the abuse that I endured like with my husband. And that was my choice. And a lot of it is because my dad is now sober. Yes.

[00:14:10] And he's been sober for 20 years. And so I didn't want him to view my dad in that light. I wanted him to view him as he is now, you know? Yeah. And that was always my fear. If I tell him what my mom did, if I tell him what my dad did, then, you know, he's not going to like my family and, and my family is different now. So how do you cope with that? How do you, how do you share something that you should share with the most intimate person

[00:14:36] you should be, you know, sharing that with, but also have the run the risk of that person just never being able to be comfortable around your family, you know, cause Or having ill, ill feelings toward them for what they had done to you. And there's a whole lot of fix that happens with that. So that also is, you know, it's funny cause like, you know, you, when you get into a relationship and you get into a relationship with someone that I feel like you're meant to be, I mean,

[00:15:04] I'm a very big, you have a soulmate. There's one person that's really made for you. Right. And I feel like, um, a big test testimony to that is you get in with someone, you trigger off things that they need to work on and they trigger off things that you need to work on and you kind of challenge each other. Oh yeah. Match. Match, right? Yes. And so, you know, that was, um, that that's one of my things, one of the things about my husband, he is a fixer and he protects me.

[00:15:32] That is just who he is as a person. He feels that he needs to protect everybody that he loves. I mean, that's just who he is. So if I tell him a problem, you know, he would just go straight into how we're going to solve this. I'm going to fix this for you. But you know, talking about problems like this, you can't fix. You can't. Okay. So then it leaves that feeling of hopelessness. You're helpless. Like, how am I going to help her? Like what's, you know, what can I do? Um, what are things that I'm going to be able to, to do to help her feel better and,

[00:16:02] you know, be okay. And you're almost stuck. Yes. And that in itself is emotional torture for them that they can't take care of it for us. So guys, I want to let you off the hook right now. There are some times we just need you to listen and hold us not to fix it. So a big thing I like Jen taught me actually, I learned, um, is to ask.

[00:16:28] So, um, now when I communicate with my husband, because we would just argue when I would tell him something and he'd be trying to fix it and I'd be like, I don't want you to fix it. Like, just listen to me. And you know, that was very hard for him. So now if I come to him with a problem, um, he's like, do you want a solution or do you want to just vent? And then I, we know what the plan is up front. So I'll say like, no, I just want to vent or no. Yeah. I want a solution. Tell me, help me. You know? And that really helps us communicate better because then he's out of fix it mode. Right. So he's like, okay, you just want to vent.

[00:16:58] I'm here. You know what I mean? I'm listening. And a big thing too, you know, um, growing up, I, uh, not for my family, but I also experienced other types of abuse, which then had, um, I developed a maladaptive behavior where I didn't like to be touched. So when I was very triggered, when things were going wrong, um, you know, stay away from me. Don't touch me. That makes me uncomfortable. I don't like it. And so for someone who loves me, that's very hard to understand, you know, like, is it me? Did I do something wrong?

[00:17:28] You know that all of those feelings are going through his head, you know, is our, is our relationship okay? Are we okay? Yeah. You know, and I think that that was probably one of the hardest things because trying to explain to him, like, we're okay. I love you. I just need time. I need, you know, I love you and I, and I want, you know, it's this, it's this weird, crazy thing too, because growing up without that, that, you know, I guess not feeling, but

[00:17:56] the, I, I grew up with affection, but I can't explain it. Like, I guess the comfort, like being able to be comforted, um, to, to some extent, like, well, so what you had said earlier was I wasn't allowed to have big emotions. I was sent to my bedroom to process this alone because I'm a bad girl. Okay. Yes. There. So yes, because it's like the one thing that I push away, I want so badly. So like, I want connection.

[00:18:26] I want that, that feeling of comfort. I want for you to hold me and, and I want to feel better in your arms and I, and I want that. But, but at the same time, I can't, like my body just like, doesn't respond that way. I, I, I like now that I've been in therapy for two years, like absolutely my body responds that way I'm able to do that. But even in certain situations where I'm triggered about, you know, certain things, I, I now I'm self-aware.

[00:18:52] So I'll say, you know, like, I think this is just one of those situations where I just need five minutes if you touch me now. And I think also part of it is that like, I couldn't lose it at my house, right? Like I couldn't cry. I couldn't scream. I couldn't have emotions. So when people comfort you, what's the first thing you do? You know, you come in, you're upset. Yeah. And even I do. I mean, this happens all the time when I come in to walk with me and I see Jen and Jen's like, are you, how are you doing? I just want to like start crying and like, you're like Jen. But like, I, you know, that's kind of just the feeling you get when you, when you, you

[00:19:21] know, are, are asked that by someone that, you know, you care about that, you know, you've developed connection with you. So for me, it's like when my husband does that, it's like, then I, then I let loose. I don't want to let loose. Like, I'm not ready. I don't want to accept that this has happened. So I need time to process it because I'm not ready to say, yes, I'm upset. This happened. Like, I want to cry it out. You know, that's really hard for me. That is also a big thing.

[00:19:48] Everybody, you know, in my life just were like, you're so put together. You're so, you know, structured. You're so, you know, I put myself through nursing school, work three jobs, like double majored. I mean, people were like, how, how do you do that? Like, it doesn't come without sacrifice. You know, there's a reason. There's a price. Yes. A hundred percent. And I think people don't really understand that. And, you know, I wouldn't say that because why am I going to share that? That's too much information. So, you know, people just thought that I was fine. Everything was fine.

[00:20:17] I'm just a super structured person. I'm just very, you know, determined and I persevere. And yes, I do do all those things, but that's because of the household I grew up in. I didn't have an option. I couldn't be a no choice. There was no there was no being a kid under, you know, seeing children now and just seeing even just hearing about my husband's childhood. Like he would go back in a heartbeat. Like I would never. I mean, literally asked me if I'd go back to my childhood. I'd go back to maybe when I was one, two, three, when I didn't know anything was going on. Sure. Yeah.

[00:20:47] You know, you're right. Well, your body knows your body knows a hundred percent. And like things maybe weren't that bad in my house at that point. You know, my dad didn't start doing heroin until I was a little bit older. Yeah. So maybe it was something that he could contain. Yeah. You know, it was just alcohol. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I think that that has to do with it, too. But I just think that I see it and I was just actually it's kind of funny that I'm talking about this because I was just talking about this with my aunt.

[00:21:14] You know, I said I never grew up being able to just be a kid. I never had to not have to parent my parents. So I never had a parent that I could just go to and vent and, you know, have that ability until I'm my my my dad and my mom got divorced and my dad met my stepmom. And, you know, that was the first person in my life besides my aunt that I could, you know, go to. And my aunt is also was also an addict. Like she's 30 something years sober. Yeah.

[00:21:44] So, you know, she's been sober for almost my entire life. So I didn't know that side of her. But even, you know, even her like coming to her, it was a lot. You know, she has these two small niece and nephew that she wants to help that she's trying to help. She's doing her best. She's paying for things. She's taking us off my parents hands. But she also didn't know how bad it was because my mom didn't share that. It wasn't until I would, you know, I remember I was at the mall with my aunt and my mom and my brother. I was really young, maybe.

[00:22:13] I don't know. I'd be like seven. Yeah, I couldn't be any older than that. Me, you know, and I remember my brother like me and my brother were very close. We had a weird relationship, but we're very close now. I love him very much. But we were in the mall and I always copied what he did. He thought it was funny to run up the down escalator. Oh, yeah, let's do this. Right. So I'm like, I'm going to do it. I can do it. Like Dave can do it. I can do it. Right.

[00:22:40] And so I did it and I was running up the down escalator and I tripped and my hair was, I mean, an inch before going into the end. Someone caught me. Yeah. And picks me up. And, you know, I like hurt my knee. And I remember my mom just being like, you just wait until you're like until you get home. You just wait until we tell your father. And my stomach would just. Yeah. All that emotion. Yeah.

[00:23:07] And my brother was very stoic. So you never saw emotion on him. But I remember we pulled into the house and we're sitting in the car. My mom goes in my aunt sitting car and I would just start bawling. I'm just like hysterical, like not not consolable. And she's like, what's going on? I'm like, please, please don't let us go into the house. Please, please. Like, just just stay. Just stay. Don't leave. Like, can you stay the night? And I just remember her being like, why? Like what's going on? You know, and I, I was like, you don't understand. Like, please. I couldn't tell her.

[00:23:36] But I mean, I'm scared to death, like for my brother. You know, I'm scared for us all. And you know, how's my dad going to react? And that's also the thing, you know, I'd come home and it wasn't even just my dad, but my mom, like, I had to fill out the situation. So what, you know, is my mom going to be angry today? Is it safe? Is she going to be upset? Is my dad going to come home high and get angry? Like, what's, what is, what am I walking into? Yeah. Exactly. You know, like daily. Yes. Daily. The war zone. Yes, exactly. So I was used to war zones.

[00:24:05] You know, that is just something that kind of became second nature to me. Just always feeling out my situation. I'm very, you know, I am very observant. I feel like, you know, when I meet someone, if I get a bad vibe, you know, that's like big for me. I am always on guard. You know, I can never just relax. And so I feel like for me, not having also someone, you know, like a parent figure to just,

[00:24:33] you know, at least if one of my parents were emotionally stable, then maybe, you know, I could run to them. But I mean, I couldn't even do that, you know? No. So having to kind of navigate that as a kid, I mean, like, how do you do that? You create maladaptive behaviors that keep you safe. And they 100% are adaptive. That is what you needed. And sometimes we don't give enough credit.

[00:24:59] Kudos to that little girl for creating what she needed to survive. And that's the thing. I think that what ended up happening later on in my life is I just became this ball of anxiety. Like, I was just always anxious. Like, I just remember my friends. I mean, I would get anxious going to work. I would work the same job for years and every day getting ready to go to work. I was anxious. Why? For no reason. Jobs I loved.

[00:25:25] I mean, like, I loved being a bartender, loved serving tables, loved being a nurse. Like, you know what I mean? I mean, there was no reason and I just would get anxious for absolutely no reason. I would like, you know, think of the worst case scenario always. And that just became, I mean, I couldn't live like that. I mean, you just, you can't, you cannot live that way. You cannot. That will take a toll on your body. That anxious, that stress level.

[00:25:53] I would just, I mean, I was emotionally exhausted. Yeah. And it started showing up in, you know, in my health as well. Like, you know, I would, I was tired all the time. I mean, I just couldn't function. I would get anxious that things were wrong with me. I developed certain positive things. I, you know, I started running. That's a big thing. Love to run. That helped me. I don't know. I felt free, you know, that kind of thing. It releases that.

[00:26:20] So anxiety and anger, they're an energy and we have to find the release for it. So running might be something if, if anybody is listening that maybe has similarities to try that release that running or even screaming into a pillow or big body movements. And, you know, journaling was something I did for a long time. But then, you know, I had an experience where my mom read my diary. Oh, wow. Yeah.

[00:26:48] So then that was taken away because then that wasn't even safe. So like my thoughts are not even my thoughts. Yeah. You know, and, and that even was something that I really struggled with. So then I became, I, you know, developed maladaptive behaviors and people asked why I was so structured, structured with my time. Right. So I filled my time. I always said, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'll do this. I'll do that. I mean, I volunteer. I did all the things. Right. So I never had any time to sit and think. Yeah.

[00:27:14] Because if I sat and thought, then all of these thoughts would flood my entire brain. Yep. Of this happened, that happened, you know, all that, all that. Yeah. Who you are, what you endured. And we can't have that. Right. We, that is not anything that would be safe. No. And also like the thing is that you're never going to get rid of your trauma. Right. No. It happened. Okay. Life happened. You taught me that, you know, I would say that I would come to therapy. I'd say to Jen. Okay. Jen. Cause I, I was, I, I like to say broken. I was very broken at the time.

[00:27:45] Walk with me has the availability to have, you have equine therapy, right? You can do that with just a licensed therapist. Julie is mine. But then you also have extra support. That's Jen. She's trauma, a trauma life coach, right? Like I needed both because I was that broken. And so I would have Julie explained to me why I did X, Y, and Z. And then I'd have Jen explained to me. So this is how you implement it. So what's going on with you, you know, with you in your life, and I'm going to help you. I'm going to show you, I'm going to give you those things.

[00:28:11] And so I think that also really, that's a beautiful way to put it. And it helped me. So, I mean, because the thing is I can understand, I mean, I'm also an analytical person. I love to analyze, right? I can, I can tell you who you are and like, you know what I mean? All the things, but what I can't do is I can implement in other people's lives. That's also a very confusing thing with people that have trauma, right? Trauma attracts trauma. So I can help so many people. And I, I have, I mean, I honestly would love to.

[00:28:41] I would love to switch careers and do that because I am obsessed with it. I think it's an amazing thing. But I think if I don't mean to cut you off, hold that thought. But I think if you have been in the darkness for so long, and then you come into the light and you see that reprieve, you see that relief. It's like, I want to share this with somebody else. So that is like, you literally hit it on the nail. It's like, I had like, want to say these people, you don't have to live this way. Like life is different. Like you can, like, I have a life.

[00:29:10] I have a beautiful house. I have a wonderful husband. I have a seven and a half month old. Like, it's real. Like it can, it can be you. I have a career. I have friends, all these positive things that like you just never imagine you could experience. Right. And so every time people come to me, I, I can fill hole. I can see the hole. I can see what you're struggling with and I can help you. I can give you all the tools.

[00:29:34] And honestly, I could even do that like before I even was in therapy, but I couldn't do it for myself. Right. So I was drowning, but then I was helping keep all these other people afloat. Yeah. Which I think like was also confusing for me because like how, how can I see it so clearly with other people, but I just can't help myself. I think struggle. Like I struggled with. Yeah. Is the lens. Yeah. Right.

[00:29:59] And I think, you know, there's a lot of people out there that say, well, therapists need their own therapist. Right. And you must be, you must not be good if you need your own therapist. But really it's so that we can talk and we can process and we can have that support from an outside lens. Yes. And I think that's very important to really hit on because it's so true.

[00:30:22] I mean, emotion, you take on things emotionally and you need your own release or else you become overwhelmed emotionally. And, you know, that's a really big thing. And I think that, you know, also, I just remember growing up, everybody would always say, you're so nice. Like, Natalie, you're so nice. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, yes, I am nice. Like, sure, I am kind. But, you know, there's that little girl in me that also was very angry.

[00:30:50] Like, I was very angry, angry at everything. Yeah. And I think that it wasn't until I had my car accident and my daughter passed away that the anger really stepped up. So I was able to control it to some extent. Now, you know, in my relationship, I was not. So, you know, with my husband, I could go from zero to 150 in like the blink of an eye. Yeah. I mean, he'd say something to me, I'd get triggered and I'd be yelling, you know.

[00:31:19] And he'd be like, whoa, like, why are you yelling? What just happened? You know what I mean? Like, what made that feel like? My kids used to say Momzilla. Yeah. Like, really. I mean, because it's also like that's not who you are. You know, that's who you become. And like, yes, that is part of you. But that's really not who I am and who I want to be. Right? Like, that's just who my inner little girl is saying, like, hey, I'm angry not just about this, but I'm angry about X, Y, and Z.

[00:31:48] I mean, all these things that I haven't been able to express and, you know, there's something with validation, you know, and a lot of times when you grow up in a house that you have and you suffer from severe trauma, there is no validation. Okay? There's no accountability. No one wants to take accountability. It's everybody else's fault but the people that create that problem, right? Yep. So then when the kids start to struggle in their life with, you know, doing this or doing that, you know, then it becomes, well, like, get your life together. You're an adult. Grow up.

[00:32:17] Like, you know, and it's like, back it up because like, that's it. This is this didn't just happen that way. You know, there was a reason. So I think that it's really important for people to understand that people to see people and from, you know, for where they stand for me, you know, if I had any argument with my husband that he didn't for whatever reason, admit something or take accountability for something or validate my feelings, then I would go, I mean, I would just stay at 120.

[00:32:47] Like, I would just, I would go for, you know, I could go for like five days, like, with just ignoring him. Like, I'm just going to give him the silent treatment. Like, you don't want to, you don't want to recognize that you hurt me. Well, then I'm going to hurt you times 30. Oh, you know what I mean? And like, that was a thing. And that's real. I mean, it is. And for me, it would be crazy because in my head, I'm like, my heart would sink because like, right, I want to reach out to him. I want to connect with him. He'd walk next to me and I want to hold his hand or kiss him or love on him.

[00:33:16] But then there was like my head that was like, don't do it. Like, screw him. You know, yeah. Like, it's he'll learn. Yeah, exactly. Like that feeling, you know, and then so I would struggle. And no one understood, you know, only people who really have experienced that can really understand like how that feels and how real that feels. It is. You know, and I think that when my daughter passed away and, you know, we couldn't talk, like there was no talking in our household about it. You know, my husband didn't want to talk about it.

[00:33:46] He, you know, grief was hard for him. And he, you know, experienced that. And that was his way of, you know, dealing with it. Well, I'm not going to talk about it. It doesn't change anything. I'm not going to talk about it. And so me here wanting to talk about it 24-7 because, like, I'm trying to wrap my head around what just happened, you know, and then it kind of trickled down. So then I'm angry. Like, okay, well, then if I yell at you, will you talk about it?

[00:34:06] If I, you know, if I have, if I do the maladaptive behaviors that I did as a kid to get attention, like, you know, like, look at me, talk to me, pay attention to me. Like, you know, give me your emotional support. Like, I'm here. Hello. You know, that, like, if, what did that work? You know, so he's coming home, like, I'm upset. I'm angry about this. He doesn't want to talk about it. And then it's just like, then I ignore him. I mean, how do you navigate through that?

[00:34:35] You know, so it's just. You go in that cyclone and that pattern. And it's like, okay, what storm are we going to meet when we get home from work today? Yeah. And like, so my poor husband, like he, you know, experienced a lot of, you know, some of the same feelings. Like I created what I grew up in that I never wanted to create. So like, is it safe when I come home? Is she going to be upset? Is she mad? Like, if I say something, is it safe to say that? Or is she going to be upset? Am I going to hurt her feelings? Am I going to trigger her? You know, that's big.

[00:35:04] And like, that was, you know, our relationship for a little while. And, you know, granted people, people get divorced all the time over child loss. I mean, it happens. You know, we had a lot of significant events happen in a very short period of time and, you know, health, all of these things. And so that's hard to navigate on its own. But like having someone there who is just like never going to give up on you. I mean, like, this is my husband. He's standing here, doesn't know how to help me.

[00:35:32] You know, I have all of these issues from baggage from before him. And he doesn't even really understand because he didn't grow up in anything, even remotely close to that. Right. So he's coming into this completely blindsided, doesn't even know half of the stuff. Then I'm acting completely different. Then we have all of this stuff on our shoulders. I mean, you would think. Yeah. And then here I am also like not understanding why this man is still loving me. Like, what did I even do to deserve this? Like, I hate myself.

[00:36:01] You know, like, why can't you see that? Like, hate me too. Like, I'm trying to make him hate me. I'm sitting there like ignoring him, yelling at him. Like, you know, go away. Get away from me. I don't want the comfort that I need to accept that my daughter has passed and that this my whole life has changed. My accident caused so much change that like, you know, all I'm doing is trying to set the scene to push him away. Like, get away from me.

[00:36:26] And here he is like, you can, I remember when we first started dating, my husband would say, I would get into a mood or I'd get upset or get triggered. And he'd come in the house and he'd say, you know, go ahead, throw your tantrum. Like, I'm still going to be here at the end of it. Like, I love you. Like, love is forever. You know what I mean? And I just, I just remember being like, I don't even understand. Like, like, I couldn't, how do you comprehend something like that when every bit of love that you've experienced is conditional, right? Like, you're a good girl. So I'm going to love you.

[00:36:56] You know, when I would do something. Or dysfunctional. Dysfunctional. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I, you know, I would, I would clean for my mom. Then I'd get praised. You know, I do well in school for my dad. Then I'd get, I'd get praised. You know, I would be safe for a little while. Right. Like, I cleaned my room. That was safe. I do all these things to please people so that in my life I could function. Because if I didn't, then it wasn't safe and I couldn't function. And then eventually he wasn't, that awareness wasn't there about, hey, I cleaned the kitchen. Yes. Am I safe?

[00:37:26] Right. And so he didn't have that awareness. You're doing what you usually do. And then it's like, wait a minute, this isn't working. Yes. And like, when I met him, I had been single for a while. Like, I dated. Don't get me wrong. I dated. But nothing serious. I mean, I had a, like, a couple of serious relationships. But I'm just saying I got used to that feeling. I didn't, I didn't like anybody in my space. I'm going to be honest. I didn't want to have to think about, like, the feelings of someone else because my feelings enough were overwhelming.

[00:37:56] So I don't want to have to worry about you. I don't want to have to tell you where I'm going, what I'm doing, all these things. I don't want to have to consider that. So then I'm, you know, meeting my husband, getting into a relationship with him. Like, he's moving into my apartment. I'm, like, freaking out. You know, I'm like, okay, like, this is too much. I don't know. You know, like, is this safe? Can I trust you? You know, there were so many different things going on in there. And he's sitting there, like, excited. Yeah. You know, everything's excitement for him. He's, like, excited. This is the next step in our relationship. Even getting married.

[00:38:24] You know, I knew that I wanted to marry my husband from a very, you know, early on. And my husband says all the time, you know, two weeks into our relationship, he was like, I'm going to marry you. And I'm like, that's kind of funny because, like, I never planned on being married. I never wanted to be married. I saw so much dysfunction in my own, you know, childhood. I'm like, and I'm like, you're crazy. Like, good luck because I'm not getting married. Yeah. You know, kind of thing. And he's like, I'll stick around. And then I did start feeling like, could I do this? Could I get married? And, you know, he asked me all the time, like, did you have doubt?

[00:38:53] You know, like, we just talked about this the other day, actually. He's like, did you doubt, did you ever doubt that, you know, you wanted to marry me? Like, did I have doubt? Absolutely not. Like, no doubt. Was I scared? Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, I mean, for like months before. And everybody, I mean, I just remember this so, so clearly, too. Everybody would say, you know, are you excited? I'm like, how come no one asks if I'm nervous? Like, why is that not a thing? And I would say to women, like, aren't you nervous? Didn't you get scared? Like, no, I wasn't scared. I'm sitting here like, okay, well, I'm terrified.

[00:39:22] Like, I don't even know what marriage means. I don't know what. It's just another broken chip. Yes, 100%. Yeah, I don't fit the mold. Everybody else is this, but I'm not. Yes. And so I'm sitting there like, is this? And I just remember talking to my mother-in-law, like, maybe a week before our wedding. And I said, we're driving in the car. And I was like, you know, were you scared when you got married? You know? And she's like, yes, I was terrified. And I said, you were? And she was like, yeah. And I said, because I'm so scared. I know that I want to marry Austin.

[00:39:51] I love him. But I'm scared. And everybody just keeps, like, asking me why, like, acting as if that's such a weird thing. You know? And I just remember I was so scared. And my best friend, she married us, right? And she, like, got ordained. And she kept saying to me, she came the night before and she kept saying, okay, I'm ready for your freak out. Like, anytime you're ready, freak out. And I just, like, the whole time, my face is just flat effect. Like, I'm getting ready. They're putting makeup on me. I'm doing all this stuff. And I'm flat effect. And, like, she's like, okay. Like, Kenzie's like, all right, Natalie. Like, are you okay?

[00:40:21] Like, what's going on? What's going on in your head? I'm just silent. I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. And my husband, bless his heart, we left the night before. And I was so anxious. Literally, he comes in after, like, packing the car and doing all the things he needs to do. And I'm sitting literally in the middle of our bedroom. I have clothes all around me. Nothing's packed. And I'm like, and he's like, are you packing? Like, what's going on?

[00:40:48] And I'm just like, babe, I don't, I'm so, I'm frozen. Like, I'm so overwhelmed. And he's like, all right, all right, let's see. We need, like, you got your wedding dress. That's it. Like, mom's got that. Like, you know, like getting stuff. He packed everything for me. So he packed everything, did all this stuff, right? We were supposed to leave at, like, five. It was, like, a five-hour drive. We didn't leave till, like, nine. So we didn't get there. Maybe even later than that. We didn't get there till, like, one or two. So my best friend's already there. We get there. And I just remember my husband being like, oh, my God. And I was like, what? And he's like, I forgot my tux.

[00:41:17] And I'm like, are you kidding me? And he's like, no. So I'm like, I'm freaking out. I'm like, because he was so concentrated on me again, right? So I just remember my father-in-law. I mean, just, I love them. He just looks at my husband. He's like, all right, well, let's make the trip back and back. And they literally drove all night, got the tux, drove all night back. My husband got there. And then we had our wedding at a, that was another thing, too. You know, trauma. It makes a loop, right? So I didn't want to have a big wedding.

[00:41:46] I was too anxious. Like, oh, you know, what are my friends going to think? Like, I knew that they would be worried about who's maid of honor, right? Then I, my family, you know, my mom, I have a really difficult relationship with. You know, all these things getting along with different people. I was like, I can't do it. I, like, even just thinking about that, I said, I just need something small. So we ended up, and it actually happened to be during COVID. So it worked in my favor because I was like, oh, COVID, you know, can't do a big wedding. Yeah, exactly. So we ended up getting married at the restaurant we had our first date at.

[00:42:16] We asked them if we could rent it, and they gave it to us for free. They loved our love story. They were, I mean, it was so kind. And so he went to the, he literally finished driving, put his tux on, got ready, and he went to the restaurant, and he and my best friend decorated, and like my in-laws and everybody, they just decorated the whole thing. So he didn't sleep, like literally didn't sleep. And here I am, you know, and I just remember my friend just kept saying, waiting for the, you know, waiting for, for you to freak out, didn't freak out. All right.

[00:42:44] And so we pull up to the, which I'm, I'm late for everything. That's another thing about me. I don't know what that's about, but I am. I'm just always late. Right. So I was late for my own wedding. Hey, you were, you were early today. Right? I'm proud of you. Yeah, kudos. I am working on it. And I pulled up and they put mics on you, you know, because everything. Okay. So I have the mic on me. And, and I just remember, like my best friend comes around the corner. She opens the door and I was like, okay, it's my moment. Now I'm freaking out. And she's like, you're on mic.

[00:43:15] And I was like, oh my God, no, really? And she's like, yeah. And I just remember being so nervous. I couldn't even have my freak out. And I walk in and I see my husband's face and everything just went away. I love that. That's beautiful. Like I knew at that point, like it was like I saw him and everything was fine. I was okay. I didn't need to freak out. Right? Like all this anxiety I had. And that's my life. You know, that was my life for so long before therapy. It would be like, I would think all these different scenarios.

[00:43:44] I'd be anxious, anxious, anxious, even for things that were exciting. You know, then I joined Beautiful Balance. And I started learning about emotions. I met these wonderful women that helped me understand like, you know, why things would happen the way that they did or why I felt that way. Or I could share experiences and they're like, yeah, I feel the same way. Like, yes, that's how I feel, you know? And I started understanding like I didn't even know what excitement was.

[00:44:13] You know, I balled all of these emotions into a box and, you know, letting after my daughter past letting any emotion out would just be a floodgate. And I just couldn't do that. And, you know, so anger or happiness and not even happiness. I don't even I wouldn't even call it happiness. What was it? I don't even know. Really. I couldn't even put it put a name to it. Right. And so I would just like, you know, it took me years of therapy. Beautiful Balance for me to even understand that anxiety and excitement. They feel the same in your belly.

[00:44:43] So you don't even know how to decipher between the two. So all like a lot of times I would be excited, but I would think it was anxiety. I'm like, oh, my God. I mean, just no, you're not. You're excited. You know, like I just would hear your voice in my head. No. Is this excitement? Is this anxiety? And I realize now a lot of it is really actually excitement. And that's wonderful. I mean, just how much I mean, just how much I have grown, you know, like even in moments

[00:45:11] where I will and I just remember saying to you, too, I was like, Jen, am I ever going to get to a point where I don't need therapy? And you're like, I mean, sure, maybe you might get to that point. Yeah, absolutely. But and I said and I remember saying, like, how will I know? Oh, you'll know. And so every time I would, you know, I would go twice a week. And I remember every time I would be like, I'm ready to drop down to once a week. Something would happen. I'd be like, I'm not ready. And then I remember saying to you, you know, I would have episodes where I would, you know, go from zero to 150.

[00:45:38] I'd freak out, have an emotional roller coaster like, you know, like I was used to having. And I would regress. I would feel like, oh, my God, seriously. Like, and I just remember coming to you one time and I'm like, you know, Jen, when is it ever going to end? Like, am I ever going to get to a point where like I don't have those moments? And you were like, well, let me ask you something. You know, when you first started coming to us, how often did you have those? And I'd be like, I mean, Jen, at least once a day.

[00:46:04] Like I had you on speed dial, you know, and then and then she's like, and you'd say to me, well, you know what you had this time, right? And like, when was the last time you had it? And I'm like, I don't know. I can't even like maybe a month ago. And you'd say, well, that's progress, right? You know, and that's what you focus on. Don't focus on will it like, you know, will you have freak outs? Yeah. Like, are you going to get triggered? Absolutely. That's never going to go away. Do I get triggered now? Yes. But do I respond the same? I love that. No.

[00:46:33] You know, and even now, like, does my husband come home and have to ask, is it safe? No. You know what I mean? Like, no, because my emotions aren't that way anymore. You know, like, like I got pregnant with my seven and a half month old. I mean, that was a journey in itself, right? Like I, you know, had my accident. I had four miscarriages. Like I lost my daughter. And then here I am now post my accident. Now I'm infertile. Now I can't get pregnant on my own.

[00:47:00] So now I'm having to go through IVF and do all this stuff. And I remember saying to myself when me and my husband decided like, this is our journey. We're going to do it. We want a kid. I just remember saying like, I don't know if I can do it. And he's like, you have Jen and Julie. Like you can, you can do it. You know, you have walk with me. Like you have support. You have your women's group. That's what he would say to me. Like every time that I would, you know, have these thoughts or get, get overwhelmed, he would say like, why don't you call one of the girls from your women's group? And, and, you know, I don't know that I would have been able to go through that journey,

[00:47:30] to be honest, like without walk with me. I mean, not only me, but my husband. I mean, every second of the pregnancy, everybody was so excited for us. And I just remember coming to you being like, you know, like we're like, yes, are we excited? But like every part of that pregnancy was anxious. Yeah. I mean, my husband didn't even really want to accept that I was pregnant until like we knew for sure it had stuck and it was an okay pregnancy. Yeah. I just remember that feeling of like, you know, when am I going to be like, when is he going to be excited? Yeah.

[00:48:00] We would do things for each other. Right. Like, so he bought me bump boxes. Like every month I would get a bump box, like, oh, you know, pregnancy is one. And then I remember saying like, can I do something for him? You know? And so I looked on the website and there was a dad box, but it was just one. Right. So I ordered that one for him to have for the first one. And then I was like, there has to be someone. So I ordered him rad dad boxes. That's a real thing. So if anybody has had miscarriages and they have a husband that's anxious, great tool. Yeah. Amazing. I love that. I mean, that, that really did get him excited.

[00:48:28] He would get a box every month and he was like, what's in the box? Like hats, books, like food, you know, they deserve to be, you know, to be welcomed and, and to be supported as well. And I think that's another thing that we struggled with in our relationship is like, you know, my husband was always the rock. He's very stoic of a person. Like you would never know what's in his mind. I mean, even me, I'm married. I've been with him eight years and I still, sometimes I'm like, tell me what you're thinking about, you know? But, um, so like he never felt like he could let loose.

[00:48:58] And then also I got into my accident. He really couldn't because like, I'm pregnant, like with our daughter, you know, I'm in a hospital bed. I can't walk. All these things are unsure. He's, you know, trying to keep it afloat, has a job, has to still work because God knows we can't afford that. You know what I mean? So when can he break down? When is his, when is his time? When can he have emotion? And that's going to be a whole nother show because I think that's real for our men. A hundred percent.

[00:49:24] And I would love to dig into that a little bit deeper. Yes, absolutely. So thank you for sharing. Um, if someone were listening, what piece of advice would you tell them? If someone that wouldn't, that wouldn't need it? I was going to say if someone were listening, and I think if I was listening to, to a podcast

[00:49:51] like this, and I was relating to a lot of the things that I heard, I think what I would want to hear from someone would be, you do not have to live this way. There is another way. And really, it starts with investing in you. You know, I could go to therapy every day of my life and never get anything out of it. But, and I can be scared because, you know, therapy is not easy. No, not at all.

[00:50:20] The more trauma you've been through, the scarier it is, right? Because it's like ripping a Band-Aid open. And you would say bristly, you know, there are bristly moments. And in all reality, that is true. And I would get to a point in therapy where it would get to that point, right? And then I just leave. But I think that what I would want to hear is stay. Because go. Go scared. Go reluctant. Go not having any expectation, but just go. Because that starts the journey, right?

[00:50:49] And then also, it's okay to go and not have connection and not feel that that therapy place is right for you. But, and to switch, right? So, like, my thing is, another thing is, it's so important to find your place. Find your safe space. Find your people, you know? And walk with me was that for me. I mean, you guys are my people. Like, and that is what helped me.

[00:51:16] So, if you're struggling, if you feel like there isn't another way, if you feel like, you know what, I've been living this long for so many years that, like, this is just who I am. It isn't. Okay? I just want to stay here and tell you it is not. And now I have a son that I can give him a different experience childhood-wise, and I would not have been able to do that had I not went to therapy. So, invest in yourself. Invest in your relationships with others, not just with your significant other.

[00:51:43] But it will, once you invest in yourself, it will literally spiral. I love that. Yeah. It's amazing. I love that ripple effect. It is. Thank you. We're going to end it on that. I so enjoyed listening to your story today. Well, thank you. I just, you know, you lay it out so beautifully. So, we'll get a date and get you back and keep going and maybe talk about our guys a little bit. Absolutely. Yes. Definitely. Would love to do that. Thank you.

[00:52:13] Of course. Thank you for listening to the Conquer Your Past, Step Into Your Future podcast. For more information about what you have heard here, visit walkwithmehealingsteps.com. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast, and we'll see you on the next episode. You've been listening to The Mesh, an online media network of shows and programs ranging

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