Sam Jones BBQ’s Michael Letchworth Shares His Carolina BBQ Journey

[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The MESH. When a lot of people think of Carolina BBQ, they think whole hog cooked over wood-fired pits and chopped and served with a splash of vinegar. They think about Skylight Inn and Pete Jones and now in 2025 they think about Pete's grandson Sam Jones and the family tradition.

[00:00:30] He's continuing in Winterville and Raleigh. So if you're gonna have a Carolina BBQ Festival, you're gonna need to have an Eastern whole hog BBQ. And that means you're gonna need Sam Jones BBQ. And today we're excited to talk with one of the driving forces behind that new generation of Jones Family BBQ with roots that are still deep in Skylight Inn traditions. It's Sam Jones BBQ co-owner Michael Letchworth. Michael, welcome to The Low and Slow Barbecue Show. Thanks man, glad to be back.

[00:01:00] Yeah, we're excited to talk to you a little bit about your BBQ journey and where you turn for advice. We look forward to finding out what you can expect from a visit to Sam Jones BBQ. We're also gonna bring to the Carolina BBQ Festival coming up April 4th and 5th at Victoria Yards in Charlotte. Of course, tickets are available now at Carolina BBQFest.org. You can also meet all the participating pitmasters for this year's festival at our website.

[00:01:31] That's LowSlowBBQShow.com. You'll meet all our episodes, you'll see the blog, and of course our guide to the Carolina BBQ Festival, which welcomes back Michael Letchworth, who missed the party last year, but we're glad to get him back. So Michael, let's get our conversation started by reminding our audience a little bit about your BBQ roots. How did you get your start in smoking meat low and slow? Yeah, so I started out actually working at Skylight Inn. It started out kind of as just a friendly helping thing.

[00:02:02] Samuel, and Samuel was always kind of like a big brother to me when I was younger, and he would get his buddies to come on Christmas Eve, because Christmas Eve were so busy at Skylight. And we would just kind of help chop and hang out. It's just a fun thing to do. And due to looking up to Samuel, I just kind of wanted to do whatever he was doing. And so whenever I got my license and I could commute to work, I started working at Skylight Inn when I was in high school.

[00:02:29] And I continued working there until I quit to take an internship when I was graduating college. So through high school and college, I worked there. And then it was a number of years after college that kind of the idea that he may open up his own place sparked up, and he gave me the opportunity to be a partner in that. And it's kind of history's there. Without going too long into it, what did you do outside of college before you got back to barbecue?

[00:02:57] Yeah, so I went to college for construction management and was working with a small subcontractor in town. My wife was still in school getting her master's. So I wasn't going to take one of those commercial construction jobs that was putting me out of town and that kind of thing. So I say I don't use my degree, but we've built two restaurants and really my life now is I'm just a project manager. Well, that makes sense.

[00:03:24] But kind of what I was going to get to is how much did they have to twist your arm to kind of get back into that barbecue realm? You spent so much time in high school and college. Yeah, so I think I really planted that seed to come back. And what had happened, Samuel had been on an episode of Barbecue Pitmasters. And coming off of that, him, it was him, Clyde Cooper's and Sauceman's out of Charlotte.

[00:03:48] And they came together to do like a charity event after that show's production had happened. And I just Samuel back then, you know, Skyli didn't and didn't and doesn't have a big staff. And so Sammy always relied on help from like me or my family or somebody to go help vend at festivals, to do caterings, to go hang out at events for help and for company, you know? And so that's how things were done back in the day.

[00:04:18] And so he had asked me to come on to do this event. And it was honestly the first time I'd ever cooked a pig all the way through being around Skylake. We always get the pig off the pit, chop the pit, but there was never cooking. The pig guy James always did that when I was there. And so it was my first time cooking the pig all the way through seeing the whole process. We were sitting around a burn barrel, having drinks, you know, having conversation. I was like, dang, where has this been at all these years, you know? Yeah.

[00:04:45] And afterwards we, you know, help chop the pig and we serve the pig. And these people that were getting it weren't the people that were coming to the counter and ate that took it for granted. And it was just a meal and just what they've always done. These people appreciated barbecue. They appreciated the tradition. And I'm not saying the people that are our customers at Skylake didn't appreciate barbecue, but it was more than just a transactional meal. Like people really enjoyed it. I was like, dang, this is pretty cool.

[00:05:13] So we came back after that event and I actually went back to Samuel after us as I looked to, um, if there's any way I can make a living, I would love to somehow come back and be a part of what y'all got going on. Like I value it. Uh, I realized I missed it, never thought I'd want to do it, but I think I'm interested in it. And that conversation, um, we couldn't work anything out.

[00:05:38] And then, you know, it was probably a year later is when, or maybe it wasn't even a year, maybe it was just a few months later. Um, Samuel came to me and was like, look, man, I'm kind of kicking around the idea of possibly opening up my bar, uh, my own barbecue place. I've been advised to kind of have a boots on the ground partner involved. And, uh, I wouldn't feel right if I didn't offer anybody, if I didn't offer to you first. And I was like, hell yeah, man, I'll quit tomorrow.

[00:06:02] Um, and so that turned into kind of him working in the background and us doing some stuff for, I don't know, man, it was, it was a number of months before I officially kind of gave notice to my job and went forward. And I actually, I quit my job too early and we didn't even have restaurant plans, didn't have anything. Um, so I actually went back to work at Skylight until we opened up Sam Jones. Right now.

[00:06:31] And so, um, as you, as you kind of took on the business, what was your role as you opened up Sam Jones? And, and was it first in Winterville, kind of in the Greenville area and then later expand to Raleigh? Yeah. So initially when we opened up the business and the conception of Sam Jones barbecue, my role was to be the day to day, you know, general manager operator of that business. Mm-hmm .

[00:06:54] And that, that worked kind of, but you know, Samuel was also getting a lot of opportunities to travel and I was traveling and helping with that. And it didn't really, um, looking back on it, wasn't the smartest thing to do for me to be on the road, doing those things and trying to run a brand new business. Mm-hmm .

[00:07:14] Um, but one of the game changers in that was, and tomorrow will be his eight year anniversary, um, had a guy come on board as a manager and he, his name's Nick. And we had a guy who had come from Skylight named Marsha, who was a key in knowing the barbecue, knowing everything. So he was keeping everything, you know, with the food and stuff going on rock solid. And then Nick came along and he had had management experience and he just started wanting and he wanted opportunity.

[00:07:43] He started, and he started taking things off my plate. And so as he started doing that and he was taking care of more of the day to day stuff, I realized I didn't enjoy that side of it very much. And I saw holes and things that were hard for Samuel to manage when he was traveling or he was out of town. It was just hard to be everything. And so I started taking things out of his, as Nick, Nick was taking things out of my bag.

[00:08:07] I was taking things out of Samuel's and you know, it was never like a, never conversation and a game plan. But eventually I just kind of transitioned myself to operating the business as a whole. But that turned into, we were managing the construction of the Raleigh store. So, you know, when it opened up in 2015, Raleigh didn't open up until 2021. Although we started that process in late 2018, it just took forever to get building permits and that kind of thing.

[00:08:35] So as Nick kind of took the reins, I was on the road. I was, you know, working on the business side of things. Initially, I even just started out trying to work on our catering, you know, being available to do that and being on those. And so it just kind of slowly evolved. And then as soon as there was finally some kind of quality of life back in place from all the long hours of getting the business going, then we opened up Raleigh and kind of reset.

[00:09:03] And now, I'd say probably in the last year, a normal quality of life is back. And, you know, the day to day job now is just running the company as a whole. And you kind of just managing the growth and opportunities. And we've just started doing some online shipping through Goldbelly. So that's kind of been a new project right now. So, yeah, that's kind of that background.

[00:09:31] Yeah. So now that you've kind of you're in a leadership role, you're kind of managing and running the business. I got to ask you how much time you spend in around the burn barrel and having those drinks and, you know, that good time that you've been missing out on. How much time do you still get to do that, which kind of sounds a little bit like the barbecue pleasure piece of it? Yeah. You know, early on those. Those events and those opportunities is what I feel like I was chasing the most.

[00:10:00] Barbecue was something that I had such a deep passion for. And, you know, looking back, I will. I truly wanted respect and recognition for the ability to cook good barbecue, the ability to be a part of a family tradition for so long. And then eventually that desire kind of faded.

[00:10:28] And as I had a son, my desires changed from, well, wait a minute, if I can be here for four or five days cooking barbecue, then why can't I just be off for two days at home or three days at home and be with my family?

[00:10:42] So it was a person of that. And then my perspective changed and I cared more about being a better businessman and being in the shadows and being in the background and just being as effective as I could from a, you know, like a business perspective. So I think, too, just from traveling for almost 10 years and being on the road so much and, you know, sleeping on cardboard and on the concrete and just doing different stuff.

[00:11:12] Like there was a time and a place in my life that that was really fun. And I think I outgrew it to where the passion and enjoyment wasn't there. And so, I mean, COVID was helped in the lack of being on the road. But there was a while there where I just kind of laid low and I didn't go out and go do events and stuff like that. Now, I really enjoy them again. It's fun to get back out there. It's fun to kind of because I don't get to cook barbecue every day.

[00:11:41] I don't really get to be around much of it. There's some days that I don't leave the front of the computer. So it's nice to still remind myself that I can still do it and also just be a part of it again. It kind of rekindles some of that love and passion for it. Yeah, we'll talk a little bit more of that passion and about the festival in a moment. But I want to keep you on the business mindset, too.

[00:12:03] You know, the barbecue business has changed an awful lot since, you know, sort of the model that Skylight had into what Sam Jones Barbecue has created. And, you know, there's innumerable ways we could talk about how it's changed. But you now that you're in the business operating it day to day and you're looking forward as a business person, you've got to think about that next growth opportunity. Where do you see the barbecue business going from from this point forward, considering all the things that have changed since, you know, Pete was doing it back in the day?

[00:12:33] Our barbecue business or barbecue as a whole? Well, yours, but then kind of as a whole, too. Yeah. So, you know, I see things staying the same. I think we have we have learned, you know, as we've tried to give opportunities to employees that wanted to try. That's Stedman. I can't keep her at us either have her put up and whining or let her be.

[00:12:58] We allow, you know, we run brisket on Mondays and Tuesdays, and that is not us trying to be brisket people. That is us giving the people that work in our pits a creative opportunity to do something they want to do instead of, you know, we literally do the same thing over and over again. But what's been proven by these things is people love our chop barbecue. People come for that chop barbecue. That's what they want. They're not looking for us to swap up the menu.

[00:13:28] They're not looking for us to do something creative with the sides. People, I think, enjoy our brand for its consistency. I think people have memories connected to meal experiences with family members or whatever that looks like. And they like to be able to talk about it and they like to be able to revisit that and relive that with something that is accurate to their memory. And I think that is my biggest responsibility is to keep that consistent.

[00:13:57] I love I love to try to pick something apart and make something more efficient. I'm an impatient person. And so it's hard for me because I have to walk a fine line before I alter some of these traditions, because there are more efficient ways financially and in time to do what we do every day. Mm hmm.

[00:14:18] And so I try to push the limits from a business side of things to make things as efficient as possible. But I'm very aware of why we are what we are and what has allowed us success and Skylight success for the number of years it has. So, you know, I see I see us having to to evolve where we have to.

[00:14:42] But at the end of the day, I think Skylight Inn and Sam Jones Barbecue is going to keep cooking whole hogs cooked over wood coals chopped up the way it is. If the only way that you'll see a change, at least for Sam Jones perspective is, you know, we've evolved into times of drive through and curbside and online ordering and that kind of stuff. We will continue to evolve to get the customer the food and the ways that the customer desires to get it. But our product won't change.

[00:15:12] One of the things I also think about is alcohol sales. I see more barbecue restaurants adding that where traditionally, you know, you wouldn't see that around that. And I'll be honest with you. I don't like to mix the pork and the barbecue in my belly because it's a gut nightmare for me. But, you know, that's some of the business evolution, I guess, that maybe is also keeping up with the audience's desires. It is. And, you know, it's really crazy having, you know, the Wimbled restaurant, the Raleigh restaurant. I only have one child, but I have, you know, seen siblings.

[00:15:41] You know, it's like my parent having two children that are just the same. They've been raised the same, but they're just different, you know? And the Wimbled store does less than a percent of alcohol sales any way you shake it. Where the Raleigh store, you know, does eight to 10 percent of sales in alcohol. But you go in Winterville, they may not serve a beer or many on Monday night at dinner.

[00:16:08] But you go into Raleigh at Monday night or Monday at lunch, and there's a handful of people having a pint or drinking a liquor drink. It's just a different vibe. I think there's different occupations that allow freedoms. So, you know, Sam Jones Barbecue all for alcohol in Winterville was a big sensitive point at home. Sam was a free will Baptist preacher.

[00:16:31] A lot of the people who, you know, the older community that held Samuel in some regard and for his reputation, his family's reputation were disappointed when he chose to sell alcohol. The alcohol is not anything more at any one of our restaurants than just something to give the guests the full experience that they want. We want to make sure if they want to get barbecue, but they want a beer, they can get it together.

[00:17:00] We don't have people over-serve. We don't nobody comes to us and hangs out. I mean, we're fast casual at our bar, your full service, but people don't come and like watch a football game the whole time. Right. It's not a bar. Same reason we have beers. The same reason we have fried chicken tenders and a salad. It is just so everybody in the group can get something to make their meal what they want it to be. My kids always going to want chicken tenders and macaroni and cheese. Mac and cheese is always popular on there.

[00:17:26] Well, while we're talking about the experience there at Sam Jones, you know, why don't you kind of walk us through the experience of a Sam Jones barbecue visit? What would you like for folks to expect from the moment they walk through the door? Yeah. So when you walk in Sam Jones barbecue, either location, you're going to approach the counter and at the counter you can review the menu and you're going to place your order at the counter. And then we're going to give you a number. You're going to go have a seat. We'll bring the food out to you.

[00:17:53] If you choose to go sit at the bar, one of the bartenders will get you your food there, serve you from the bar the whole time. I think what I want people to know most about Sam Jones barbecue is that when you're coming here and you're eating, everything's made from scratch. All the meats cooked over wood. I mean, it's a really, really honest meal.

[00:18:16] And, you know, I've always tried to operate our business model with a with a business model in mind. And when I saw those numbers start getting out of line as costs were increasing over the last couple of years, I adjusted prices accordingly to keep us to where we needed to be in the business model we set out to play.

[00:18:36] So there was a period of time there that we were more expensive, especially in the Greenville market than a lot of other people serving similar products or just to go out and get a meal in general. But now, you know, we've stabilized and now everybody else is caught up in their what they have to have. So, you know, I know at some point, you know, people said Sam Jones barbecue was expensive because, you know, barbecue sandwich and sides 1199.

[00:19:05] But that's fast food prices now. And so, you know, I want people to know they can come and they're getting a honest cook meal. The meat they're cooking started being touched the day before. You know, there's a staff making those sides every morning. And these things aren't just said for a marketing play. These are this is how we really live. And then also, if you if you enjoy your meal or you're just interested in barbecues in general, you're more than welcome to tour our facilities.

[00:19:33] Stop in the smokehouse. Check it out. Ask questions. I mean, we are proud of what we do. Our team is proud of what they do. And especially the team in the smokehouse. You know, nothing makes their day more than somebody saying, man, that was a really good meal. And then getting to tell you how they did it, it means a lot. So the experience of Sam Jones barbecue is traditional Eastern North Carolina barbecue, you know, chopped vinegar based hog. But you can get spare ribs. You can get smoked turkey.

[00:20:02] You can get smoked chicken. You can get chicken wings. If you're not into barbecue completely, we've got, you know, fried chicken tenders. There's fried fish. There's a salad. There's baked potatoes. There's other sandwiches. But any plate, sandwich, potato or salad, you can get our smoked meat placed on that. And then if you want a beer or if you want a liquor slushie, you can get that at our Raleigh place.

[00:20:32] We have a really, really great bourbon selection. We're actually releasing a bottle of Pappy Ten Year in the next week or so. We've got an Old Forrester Birthday Bourbon that's about to release with that one just for tastings and stuff. So I don't know, man. I think it's well-rounded. We are tradition at heart with hospitality that fits today. Yeah, yeah. That's a great message. Fresh and in great hospitality.

[00:21:01] How does it or does it differ from what's going on at Skylight Inn apart from the alcohol? You pull that aside, you know, leave that out. But how is it different? Yeah, so there was there's less difference now than there initially was when we opened. And part of the goal with Sam Jones Barbecue was to provide a more well-rounded barbecue experience without taking Skylight Inn and changing their menu and bastardizing what they're known for.

[00:21:30] I mean, you think about when you talk about Skylight Inn, what are the things that people that talk about that makes that place special, that makes that story that, man, they ain't got the cornbread barbecue and coleslaw and it's cash. And, you know, these little things that you can tell people are telling you why it means what it means to them. Go in there and instead of changing to, well, they used to just be blah, blah, blah, you know.

[00:21:54] So let Skylight be what it is. And what we're trying to do had nothing to do malicious against Skylight and wasn't to take away from Skylight an ounce. It was to not take away from Skylight. So important fact, though. So Skylight Inn, although they serve the chopped barbecue, the cornbread and the coleslaw, or you could get a sandwich for all those years.

[00:22:18] If you hired Skylight Inn to do a catering meal, you had an option in addition to the slaw of potato salad, baked beans. And they they do a smoked chicken where our smoked chicken at Sam Jones Barbecue has a barbecue rub on it. It's smoked on the pits. That's it. Their chicken is put on the pits with no salt, no pepper, no seasonings.

[00:22:40] And then there is a vinegar. It's not it's a high vinegar content barbecue sauce, very loose that they take their smoked chickens and put them in. And they are held in that simmering barbecue sauce until they're plagued. So those were the catering options. So when we did Sam Jones barbecue, we stole the baked bean recipe. Kind of. There's a story behind that. And we and we took the potato salad recipe.

[00:23:11] And because we wanted to offer those sides all the time. And then we kind of build out the menu around that. So Skylight Inn now, they do offer, if you go in there, that chicken, the potato salad and the baked beans at any time. You can order that when you go to the counter. You can get you a barbecue plate or a combo or whatever you want. So we separated ourselves as difference. But then we kind of come together now. They don't have all the extra stuff.

[00:23:39] They're not doing any fried foods and they're not doing baked potatoes and salads. But you can get more than just barbecue there now. I gotcha. You mentioned one thing. You've stole some recipes from them, stole them, I guess, in quotes. And you mentioned a little bit earlier, you've gotten some employees. How much of the work crew and the stuff are you pinching off of Skylight to bring into Sam Jones? Because maybe, you know, there's bigger, better opportunities.

[00:24:05] And does that ever create any animosity between the two, you know, barbecue joints? I mean, there was definitely there's been some junk talking back and forth throughout the years here and there. But for me, it was really it started out like when Marshall came to us. He had worked at Skylight Inn in high school and stuff in the past. And he had just gone through the BLET program. And he was on the fence of whether he was going to take a job as a police officer. And then we approached him as a job to come in to be our kitchen manager.

[00:24:34] And then he accepted the job with us as a kitchen manager. He still did some part time cop stuff. So that was quite a stealing of things. But then we had a front of them at house manager opportunity open up a couple of years. And then we stole I guess we stole a gentleman named Aaron and Aaron still with us today. And I think in Aaron's situation, maybe he was that was an opportunity transition.

[00:25:00] Now, we've had hourly employees that work both places. They work with us and somehow they'd snipe them and get them to work for them, too. But, you know, it's it's never been there's no bad blood or anything like that. OK, so let's let's get on to the barbecue festival. Before I do that right quick, I want to talk about something else. Let's talk about the pit master away from the pit. I follow you on your Instagram. I see you've got a lot going on, but it's not always barbecue.

[00:25:28] You mentioned your little man who's getting bigger every day. And you'll have all kinds of outdoor fishing adventures. Tell me about what you do outside of barbecue. And specifically, I guess I want to know about your Fox Hollow outdoors brand and some of those adventures that you have out there in the world. Yeah. So, you know, the outdoor life things have kind of really taken over as my passion in the last couple of years.

[00:25:54] And all that kind of stemmed from my son and him showing interest in those things and then me showing interest in it to to share those things with him. But then the book hit me where he's seven. And so he's into something one week and out of it the next. But I really have enjoyed fishing. I approach and chase fishing the way people approach barbecue. You know, wanting to go to the classes, watching the YouTube videos.

[00:26:21] You know, it's just one of those things where it's my thing. It's my thing that I chase. I chase the a bigger fish the way people chase the perfect brisket. You know, it's just the thing that I'm into now. And it's because, you know, like I told you where my goals aligned in barbecue and and and I just needed a different outlet for a little bit.

[00:26:50] You know, doing this for so long at the intensity that we were doing it. It takes a lot out of you in general. And so I needed to find something to make Michael happy and that Michael enjoyed again. And so that's just kind of piece of that served. And and simultaneously, my wife has has opened up. She kind of evolved a side business into opening up a full on med spa.

[00:27:16] And so I'm in the process of we're opening up two more locations of those. And we're opening up a infrared fitness studio franchise. It's called Hot Works. Wow. A lot of my free time outside of Sam Jones right now is negotiating those build outs and the training and implementation of those businesses. So that are that is the necessary things in life.

[00:27:43] But the Fox Hollow thing is completely a pleasurable thing for me and me and Larkin. I'm still can't really define what that is completely. I've gotten my captain like my captain license in the last year and I plan to do some light guiding and stuff like that in my free time. I really enjoy it and I enjoy teaching other people things and showing and seeing the joy. I've never seen a person upset when they catch a fish. I just love it.

[00:28:13] But Fox Hollow really started as, hey, I want some shirts and some hats, but I don't need 36 of them. So I'm going to create a business that racks into my outdoor pleasures so I can offset some of those costs. And that has evolved into selling some fishing lures and some seasonings and just some other little opportunities. But Larkin and I go out and we set up at festivals and we sell and he's the salesman.

[00:28:39] And, you know, he helps me pack orders and just lightly as I can trying to teach him some business practices and, you know, just little things along the way. Yeah, definitely. It sounds like you've got an entrepreneurial spirit and you can pass that along to him, along with those other things like the fishing and the outdoors and maybe the barbecue. And can definitely appreciate, you know, barbecue is a passion. And, you know, it's all great and passion is fun until it starts becoming a job. And then maybe you need another passion like you.

[00:29:09] I love to fish. It's hard to beat fishing as a passion. So it's cool that you've got things that you can do and enjoy in different areas. So let's get back to the barbecue festival before we wrap it up here. You know, I saw you at 2023. I know you've been involved and obviously you've spent many years out on the barbecue festival circuit and in live events and those types of things. As a pit master, what do you enjoy most about the festival?

[00:29:34] So as soon as I heard about the Carolina Barbecue Festival, I was most excited because it is a festival where people get to eat barbecue from in or near their community. You know, and it is a group of us from North Carolina. Many of us interact on social media, but never sit beside each other in a chair and just catch up. You know, we're all trying to achieve the same goal in our same market.

[00:30:02] And so often we go across the country to support another festival or another initiative. But there was nothing at home for us to do together and there was nothing at home to support each other. And so this has just been a great place to do that. And I've gotten to know Donald over the last couple of years. And, you know, I just don't know that you can make a better dude. He's giving. He is, you know, his generosity is great. His passion is great.

[00:30:32] You know, he has, you know, he's been very nice to us. And I think it shows in the people that he has around and everybody that's doing the festival. So as a barbecue enthusiast, somebody that likes to eat it, you know, why would you come to the event? And I like the kind of the picture you take on it. The different communities around the state are represented there. Apart from that, why would you come out and eat the barbecue or come out to the festival?

[00:30:59] So I think that from the very surface level, if you're into barbecue and you're following North Carolina barbecue, it's a one stop shop to, you know, it's a one stop shop to try all these places that you're seeing on social media and you're seeing talked about and you're hearing about. I think another thing is, is that if you like food in general and you are, you know, a fan of barbecue, you get to come somewhere and everybody is presenting something a little different.

[00:31:26] And everybody's presenting something that you may not have had in that way or at all, you know, whether that be brisket or that be a sausage or me. I'm gonna tell you what, like for me, the first time that we did the festival was my first opportunity to try to try Jake Woods burrito tacos. Oh, yeah. And like I went over there, I got one, I got another one.

[00:31:49] And it was like, dude, we're like 30 minutes away from each other in Raleigh, but I went to Charlotte and tried for the first time, you know, those types of opportunities. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So what do you, what are you guys planning to bring? And I don't want to make any assumptions. So I just ask, you know, what will be there first for Michael Ledgeworth? So we're going to be doing, we're going to do chop pig.

[00:32:11] Um, and we're going to do barbecue like sliders, you know, for years and years, you know, it, it sucks being the guy that gets to the festival and has to cook all night. And then as soon as everybody else starts showing up to cook their stuff, you're finishing up. And now you're serving 500 people too. Yeah. Really, really long days. And Sam Jones barbecue kind of slipped into this realm of we would cook turkey breasts and do stuff like that.

[00:32:37] And among some of our friends in the barbecue business, it was like the Sam Jones turkey tour and just different stuff picking on us because we were doing that. But really it was, um, it was just really from being exhausted. And in some of that break from doing festivals and reflecting, you realize like, Hey man, you're kind of shorting the guest. That's coming to the festival. If you're known for whole hog, you're written about for whole hog, you're respected for whole hog. The least that we can do is serve that.

[00:33:07] Um, it's not a time for us to, to try something new. It's a time for us to be an example for, of what we do and to represent our state and tradition. So we will, there will be anytime you've seen spare ribs or turkey in the past, you're going to start seeing a whole hog barbecue again. Well, does that mean Michael staying up all night at the pit? No, that does not. That does not mean that. So, so here's the thing it's on the fence and I, I've left it up to my son and I told, I had this conversation. So Sam Jones barbecue is going to be there.

[00:33:37] Um, you know, we may, we will see how the setup is. I don't know if we'll, uh, we'll roll in with digging a Yeti. I got to figure out the staffing, but this is kind of selfish. But so my son, we, Donald changed the date on me though. So it's not my fault. You know, the first year it was a different day or time of the month. So my son started turkey hunt when he was four years old and on opening day of youth season every year, since he was four, he has killed a bird.

[00:34:07] And that I don't want to break that tradition or street. Yeah. No, you can't do that. If this year he doesn't get the opportunity or he misses, then I'll cook pigs the opening day of youth season for the rest of my life. But until that tradition breaks, I really want to be in the blind with him and see what he can produce out of that. Um, and we have some, we have some core staff members that have been a part of our crew cooking and doing things that I've never experienced in an event.

[00:34:35] Um, and so I know what we're going to do from our Raleigh store, um, you know, which I think is, is obviously closer to seeing and facing a customer. We're going to have some of our leadership from the Raleigh store there for sure doing that. Um, but you won't catch me the night before at the pit because I'll be, uh, I'll be working on a turkey. Well, you know, there could be, uh, there's places to hunt nearby Charlotte. You need some help. I can find you. You know what? I have not considered that. That might be a nice thing to do.

[00:35:05] Do a guided hunt in Charlotte that morning and then roll over. And there you go. I mean, up in Lincoln County, there's some spots. I'm sure there's some down there near Peachland where John G's at. He can find you a spot. Yeah. Something to think about. Something to think about. Before we wrap up, I'm going to get you through the low and slow showdown, but I got to bring up the question. I got to bring up the question that's kind of been at the tip of my tongue that everybody's going to want to have the battle over.

[00:35:31] You know, you say you'll do whatever you want to, whatever your customer wants at Sam Jones barbecue. You want to make them happy. But my question for you is, will you serve them barbecue sauce with ketchup in it? So we have sweet barbecue sauce on the table. So that's an option. But you won't see it in our barbecue presented that way. No. Are we freezing up?

[00:36:02] So I guess the question that I'm getting to apart from sweet and vinegar is, which is the best turn? Is it Eastern or Western? Or I guess Eastern or Lexington? Because Western, I guess, is a whole different hand. Barbecue ignorance on my part. I've never had Western North Carolina barbecue or sloth. You've not had Lexington style? Never. And I know that in 23, Nathan Monk was set up not far from you. And they're going to be there in 24. I know it's 22, I guess.

[00:36:32] They'll be there this year. They'll be there this year. So I have nothing against it. I would love to try it. We've done some things with, you know, some panels and stuff with some of the Red Bridges crowd. Respect it. Respect the tradition. I'm most interested. I'll not get off topic. But I've just never had the opportunity. I've never. So here's my thing. I didn't grow up in a family who was like barbecue kind of sewers. And I've never traveled seeking barbecue. You know, I knew one thing.

[00:37:02] I worked at Skylight Inn, started cooking on the road. And the next thing you know, you're having opportunities to try whatever barbecues at these festivals. But by the time I got into barbecue. And I've never, you know, in our brand, we're representing one single tradition. So I'm not like on the quest to figure out what. How is Michael Letchworth going to do barbecue? You know what I mean? So sorry. It's very. Your journey is very much a business mindset. Obviously, there's a pleasure that other people get from it, too.

[00:37:31] But very much a business focus to it. So you don't have to get into the battle of which is the best and whatnot. But at the festival, we're going to get you and Nathan Mogg and introduce you to some Lexington barbecue. I'm sure he can hook you up. I can't wait to try it. All right. Low and slow showdown time. And then we're going to wrap it up. Just something quick answer here. And I've expanded it since our last conversation. So hold on. What is the name of the barbecue joint that you grew up on?

[00:38:02] Pete Jones Barbecue. Pete Jones. What is your current barbecue? And don't say Sam Jones. If you're not eating at Sam Jones, what are you eating barbecue? Probably prime. Good choice. Your favorite protein? Brisket. Favorite side? Beans. How do you like your baked beans? I like them a little.

[00:38:31] I like them sweet but spicy. Excellent. Favorite dessert? Banana pudding. The best state in these United States for barbecue. I really love North Carolina, but my palate loves Texas barbecue. And I know you've got some connections with Meat Church out there. I've seen you do some cool stuff out there. What is it about the Texas barbecue that peaks your palate?

[00:39:00] Ever since I was a little kid, whenever I eat a steak, I always put a ton of salt and pepper on it, like covered in pepper. And then I put salt and I've always eaten it. And I didn't discover Texas style barbecue until like 2013 or 14. And when I was a beef rib, I had a beef rib before I had brisket. And when I ate it, I was like, holy crap. Like this was meant for me. And then ever since then, it's just been an obsession. Completely understandable.

[00:39:28] Had a similar experience at Fox Grove barbecue. If you're having barbecue, do you want it with or without sauce? I don't put sauce on it really. No. Favorite non-barbecue meal? I really like lo mein. I like Asian noodles a lot. Yeah. Hey, good stuff for sure. Last and usually the most difficult question.

[00:39:58] I'm not sure why. Is barbecue a verb or noun? Verb. Verb. And that, my friends, is the lowdown from the pit master, the co-owner of Sam Jones Barbecue. And he'll be at the Carolina Barbecue Festival coming up April 4th and 5th, along with the Sam Jones Barbecue team. Michael, thanks so much for joining us today. Hey, man. Thank you for having me. It was good to talk to you again. Look forward to seeing you. Definitely. You've been listening to the Low and Slow Barbecue Show.

[00:40:27] If you like what you hear, give us a five-star rating on your favorite podcast stream. Share our podcast with your friends. Visit us on LowSlowBBQShow.com. That's where you can subscribe to our newsletter. And, of course, visit our new YouTube channel. You can see video from the Barbecue Festival and our conversation with Michael today. Check it out at Low and Slow Barbecue Show. Thanks to our production team at the Mesh.TV Network, the podcast, especially Andrew Moose. He's the man behind the monitors.

[00:40:54] Thanks again to our guests today, Michael Lethworth from Sam Jones Barbecue. Most especially, thank you for listening. Remember, for the best barbecue and the best barbecue podcast, make it low and slow. You've been listening to the Mesh, an online media network of shows and programs ranging from business to arts, sports to entertainment, music to community.

[00:41:23] All programs are available on the website as well as through iTunes and YouTube. Check us out online at TheMesh.TV. Discover other network shows and give us feedback on what you just heard. We'll see you next time.