NYC BBQ Sean Ludwig Talks About The Smoke Sheet & BBQ Travels

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: What you want when you want it, where you want it. This is The Mesh.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for having me and I appreciate it.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We're looking forward to talking to you about the latest news from The Smoke Sheet, your own BBQ

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: journey including your own BBQ secrets in a secret recipe. And of course remind everybody

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: listening, you can hear more stories from the BBQ world at lowslowbbqshow.com.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: That's where we got the blog. We've got all of our podcast episodes. You can also subscribe

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: to the newsletter, deliver the Carolina BBQ news to your inbox every Tuesday morning,

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: bright and early. And of course that BBQ news brings us back to our guests, the man who knows

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that whether it's smoke, there is fire and a bit bleeds, not only goes on the smoke

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: or it also leads the news story right Sean. So give us the headlines. What's the big news

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: from the smoke sheet today?

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, thank you so much. Yeah, it leads it leads. Is it is important in my my heart

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: because I've got a journalism background back. You went to University of Missouri and studied

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: journalism and I know you've got some journalism in your background. Sure.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's important both in the journalism and the BBQ. Very, very important.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But thank you so much for having me and to talk a little bit about the smoke sheet

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and you've actually had my fellow co-founder of the smoke sheet Ryan on,

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: whereas well. Yeah. And so it's awesome that I had a chance to also come in and speak

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: to you as well. But just as a refresher for those who, you know,

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe they this the first time or maybe they're just, you know, getting a refresher,

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but the smoke sheet is a national barbecue newsletter. And we publish every week.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: We talk about fresh editorial stories from all around the country.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We're not focused on one specific region, but did grow up in Kansas City.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So do still have a lot of love for Kansas City in my heart. And all over the country

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and love telling stories about barbecue and the smoke sheet is this place where we do

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll talk about recipes. We'll talk about, you know, the biggest headlines.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about, you know, just interesting things happening all over the country.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So and we appreciate anyone who wants to come join us on that journey.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: B. B. Q. newsletter dot sub stack dot com. And we do it's a paid model,

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: but we also do a lot of free previews and a lot of free things for people as well.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So we'd love to have people come join us and participate in part of the newsletter.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. And I'm a paid subscriber and I saw it came out today's Wednesday as we're having this conversation.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Today's episode of near and dear to my own heart all about Carolina barbecue and all the different

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Carolina barbecue and one place in Charlotte from, you know, another one of our mutual friends

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Monk at Barbecue Brows. So obviously that's kind of the big lead news with the smoke sheet right now.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_01]: What else is newsy with you guys?

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I would just say this is something sort of a more on the personal side of things.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. But this is, you know, it's a little insidery, but I do think it's important for the context of, you know,

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: we are coming up on six years of the smoke sheet.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Wow. And not to burn. Yeah.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I can go. We've been doing this for a long time, but we moved over to a sub stack a little more than a year ago

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: because we wanted to make it a leisure for ourselves to make the newsletter publish it and things like that.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But my good colleague, co-founder Ryan has kind of in indefinitely step back because of family obligations and a recent death

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and the family things like that. So I was just going to say that we welcome contributors that we have such incredible contributors

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to yourself included. So if anyone likes you, they should be following us as well, right?

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But we were just going to say that one of the big things right now is trying to expand the number of voices that we have.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So obviously, you know, we talked about Carolina Barbecue, Texas Barbecue, you had to say to Barbecue, international Barbecue, how to, all these kinds of things.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're out there and you're like, you've got this inch to scratch when it comes to wanting to write something about Barbecue, please get in touch. Let's talk about it.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm just kind of running the show right now. Hoping Ryan comes back once one thing is kind of settled down on his end.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, this is I think really just we, this is an open kind of in a way like an open call of people.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you are a Barbecue die hard and you, you've got, you know, a little bit of writing background or you just want to try. Like please come talk to us and let's, let's see what we can do because we really want to open this up and be a platform for lots of Barbecue voices right?

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We, you know, don't discriminate when I'm going to start with you. We love all kinds of Barbecue and I know you do too. You've got depreciation for all kinds.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. You know, when it comes to it, I think that we are kind of entering this new phase of Barbecue where I think people are always looking for something new and exciting and interesting.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: What's something they have in explore or what's an avenue, you know, I know you know the super well but like the fusion kind of aspect where people are combining, you know, Barbecue styles together or different cuisines into traditional Barbecue so to speak.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And we want to see more of that in the writing and videos and stories. And I think just one headline that I even just saw recently was King Barbecue in North Charleston, South Carolina is infusion.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like Barbecue American barbecue and Chinese barbecue together, right? And they were just named as one of the 20 top new restaurants for 2024 right?

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like national publications spotlighting kind of a fusion approach to Barbecue and being really open minded about what Barbecue is now, right? That's kind of where we are is.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The sort of new school, you know, was kind of adopting like the Franklin Barbecue kind of approach to Barbecue and now the new school, the new school, new new school is fusion and incorporating lots of different styles into that core Barbecue.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think you should still let's still have a really great brisket, really great ribs, really great pork. You just, you know, you should have your staples but let's add in some new other flavors as well.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's a nice reflection on what it sounds like you're trying to kind of get keep going and build on with the smoke shade is building an eclectic mix of fusion of all the great barbecue voices that are out there.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there are some great ones, you know, well, Robert Moss as well as, you know, Daniel Vaughn those are the super stars of Barbecue voices out there, but there's so many more other people that know about those places on the corner or those fusion shops that maybe get overlooked.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, people know about King Barbecue and North Charleston and they know about Palmar and they know about, you know, some of these other places like resident culture that, you know, that monk talked about from Ed Marsemo as it is mixed with Brazilian and Carolina Barbecue styles.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: There's really cool. So, but they may not know about everything going on in other places and I think that's really cool that you're kind of opening up the doors to get those other voices and you did mention that, you know, had the pleasure of writing about Brian Farman and everything he's got going on and it laying and kind of his free bar for you guys and sharing that story and sharing the story about the Carolina Barbecue festival really cool experience and joy doing it a lot. So just like you say anybody out there this got an interest in barbecue or, you know, want to talk about it.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, some secrets are some good stuff stories to tell hey it's easier than ever to kind of talk into a microphone and get it into a document and send it off. Hey, we're not talking ourselves out of a job, I hope.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But definitely encourage folks to get involved and involved in doing that kind of stuff. Yeah, okay, so let's talk. Let me talk to me about in my C B B Q how is that similar or different or how does it tie into the smoke sheet and what you're trying to do there.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that they're very, very connected to this point. Now I started in my C B B Q at this point you're talking about like 10 years ago as kind of like a social media kind of guide to the in my C metro barbecue which is especially they got 10 years ago was I think criminally like underrated underappreciated there was a lot happening where things really percolating developing.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know that you know, big barbecue heads will know that Daniel Vaughn recently published his guide to Texas barbecue outside of Texas.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. And there were four. I would say kind of you draw a big circle around New York City. They were for in the tri-state area around New York City that were on that list.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I would have concluded probably maybe a few more, but whatever. The point is the point is is that the area around New York City has incredible food like the just people travel to New York just for food.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So it makes sense that a culinary capital would also incorporate you know a little bit of this a little bit of this and that includes barbecue.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So there been good barbecue and especially good pop ups in the New York scene for a long time. I was one who you know, I grew up in Kansas City. I grew up around barbecue love barbecue.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But when I moved to New York City I was I didn't think there was an obvious way to learn about the best barbecue.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I would start seeking out the best barbecue restaurants people would be like, hey you're from Kansas City. You know barbecue where should I go?

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So instead of just simply word of mouth, I started creating you know social media kind of commentary and articles and posts and everything.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it started, social media then became a vlog. And I still do occasional New York City newsletters as well.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But most of my time is focused on the smoke sheet because it's national and weekly. And it's kind of like that's a publishing schedule right there.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we've got every week. I've got an issue to get out to the world and excited about telling these barbecue stories to the world.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But the NYC project to me is still very special part of my heart because telling the stories of the events and the restaurants that are in New York City

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That are doing interesting things with barbecue. I just was only a few weekends ago at the pig island event in New York City.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's in Statech, at least at Nylon. That is one of the five boroughs of New York City. People in New York City. This man had right in New York City is five distinct boroughs.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: This event is in Statech, Nylon, fantastic event where it's so eclectic. So many different kinds of it's all pork.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But you'll have a little bit of every kind of pork that you can think of and it was an amazing event. And I think still think New York City has a lot to offer people who want to experience interesting culinary experiences

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that are barbecue of barbecue adjacent. Yeah, that's cool. And I saw something you're posed on your Instagram posts about the pig island event or friend tank from Holy City hogs is up there and look like don't know if you got to rub shoulders with him at all.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but very cool. How do you feel like what's going on there in New York City scene differs from what people might find in other places right now? You mentioned the fuse and peace, but when you go into one of these events like pig island, how does it compare to what people might find somewhere else?

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think just looking at like the event scenes specifically that you actually not get just New York City, you'll get people again like tank from around, you know, from around the country.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So you'll people want to come and hang out and compete and be part of something that's bigger.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's obviously it's a big media market, it's an opportunity for exposure and meet new really interesting people.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that part of that's about, you know, people like to come to hang out in New York. So we get a lot of not just locals, we get a lot of, you know, a amount of towners to come out and celebrate one of the cool events is is held at pig beach.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Not to be confused with pig island, pig beach is a restaurant on Queens and they do an annual event where they toast and raise money for a fall of pit master.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And that is the Jeff Mechner BBQ benefit. And that one attracts so many people from all over the country.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you probably a lot of folks you know come up and hang out in New York. And that's, and it's part of what makes the New York thing special to is you're not just going to experience a taste of local you're going to get a taste of everything because people want to come be part of the experience.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that it makes it like if you're ever in New York and there happens to be one of these barbecue and happening you should go.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good, a good point in a good rationalization because I think about the Carolina BBQ Festival and they we had Charlotte.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and there's a whole bunch of great pit masters there and they're from all over North Carolina. Maybe some from Virginia or South Carolina, you know, some other places around the South maybe somebody from from well far out.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: But New York City is a big metropolitan city. It's an international place. You're going to draw a larger variety of pit masters out to that.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's definitely a great reason why to check out one of those those festivals if you get into the Northeast there. And obviously this folks, you guys try to track some of the events going on where I can follow that or follow your Instagram or the smokeshing and find out when that stuff's happening.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're we're keeping tabs on a love stuff and then we'd like to incorporate a lot of event information our new section.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So we used to try to have like, like a little calendar but with thing about it is there's just so many events and so we're trying to be like really specific about the ones that we're talking about who ones that are really interesting to us.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the thing is just you know this there's so many barbecue competitions.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So you kind of have to pick and choose between the ones that are sort of like the big national ones that ones that are kind of defining where that world is.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that we do incorporate a lot of that throughout the newsletter in videos and our new sections and stuff like that and keep really close tabs on what's going on that world.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is great content. A lot of variety good stuff. You learn something every time a new addition comes out.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Now I want to talk a little bit about Shalms barbecue journey. You know you're from Kansas City that's your part of the world so it kind of comes out in the blood when you're living in that part of the world you can't help but be into it.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But tell me what really lit your fire about barbecue about either wanting to cook it or start telling stories about it or taking pictures you know what inspired you to do this.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I really think you know this kind of draws on something I was kind of talking about earlier but I moved to New York City in 2008 and I really.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know very many people like I had just graduated from college is kind of learning my way around and I part of the running around and learning the city was also learning barbecue restaurants because I wanted to find things that either reminded me of home like the Kansas City style or new explorations like Texas style things like that things I hadn't had before.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And really it just starts with a little bit of boredom, a little bit of just like looking for things that I hadn't had before.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And just it really you know it's a few years of time where I'm learning about the different styles of barbecue and learning who's you know who's really got it in this big metro area.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that also helped me make friends too because then you're like hey you want to go check out this barbecue flavor.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, yeah, I want to go eat some barbecue so right so you just you're meeting new people you're exploring the city you're doing all these things so I think that it really started with wanting to be an explorer and a documentary right.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that journalism thing you know is still part of my plot of not like doing a lot of day to day journals and outside of the smoke sheet but a lot of my you know that sort of goes you know once you've kind of been a journalist it's kind of you're never not a journalist kind of.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was just loving the experience of going to these new places talking to the pit masters learning about their styles.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And the more that I did that the more I kind of fell in love with the people process and eventually that I think led to creating the newsletter and incredible multiple new sliders really.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I know you've connected with Ryan you know along the way there is as a big part of the smoke sheet too.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And you've also kind of it's not just New York City now you've also kind of expanded some of your travels and adventures out further into into the country so yeah have you got an idea on how many places did you've been to either you know in New York City or or at large any numbers.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I was looking at a map recently and my estimate is I've been to I've eaten barbecue in about 23 to 25 states.

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's a good number.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so about half of the continental US at this point of that some barbecue there's still spots that I haven't been to and I'm really I'm really bummed that I haven't been to Alabama Mississippi for example.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: There and I see your hat but anyway, I point is is I need I need to I still have so many places that I want to go to but whenever I do travel and just let's say it's travel for something not related to barbecue I will fit barbecue into that you know into that trip.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And I will go seek out the best restaurants that I can on that trip and then I really think that the travels have been so inspiring and enlightening like when I when I you know when I first went to snow's barbecue.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: You know that really not only did it's it started the path of the smoke sheet because that's where I met Ryan but it was like I understood how much history and how much.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, blood sweat and tears went into that because of how transparent that operation is you could you get there really early and you watch everything and you just fall in love with that process and people.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's very cool when you get to go into Alabama check out the Alabama barbecue chase course reach out to me I can help you to there are homies over the Alabama barbecue chase does a nice job he's got a cool website with all the all the best of Alabama on there so check that as you mentioned snow's barbecue.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have another most memorable day of barbecue I will ask you to pick out the favorite you know we've talked about that before but a most memorable day altogether of barbecue.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a fun one on this one okay so I actually got married out of barbecue restaurant like I married at the original pig beach location in Brooklyn location is it's closed.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: They basically they had a lease and the place got sold now that that whole area is being turned into condos unfortunately that's story of New York City unfortunately but.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But that was an incredible day.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: The lead chef pit master there Matt Abdu has a background not only in barbecue but also in fine dining Italian fine dining oh so he created a menu that blended Italian fine dining with barbecue one of the staple items from our wedding which everyone still raves about was brisket raviote.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh wow we suggest amazing yeah like I I understand there the probably some traditionalists out there who be like this is ridiculous you know whatever but if you just open your mind for a second.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah think about tender smoked brisket inside raviote with a little bit of like sauce on it or something it was it was incredible and I think you know we we had a lot we had smoked turkey we had a lot of other items there that were kind of mixed yeah playing with those.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know traditions right and I think that it's appropriate that I don't wonder how many bets I guess you've had on your show that can say they got married at a barbecue joint.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Because that's how much I love it and how much I love the people and it was it was a heck of a party metron like that one we got a really good deal relative to you know the cost of having a wedding in New York City and so we got a lot of people.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And we everyone had a incredible time I think we we really shut that place down the last second we could be there and then we have to go.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah well you got me one of I had my rehearsal dinner sort of barbecue catered so I'm from Alabama so we had some dream land ribs and my wife from North Carolina we had her legs and because her family all come from Lexington so we had Alabama and Lexington,

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and then we had a style barbecue for rehearsal and then got married and did non barbecue thing so good stuff because what about forgettable days that's a good reason for that to be remember boy you're wedding you know it's had a barbecue restaurant but what about a day you'd like to forget but you can't in the barbecue world.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I I've been thinking about this one I'm struggling because I think sometimes even when you go to a restaurant and maybe the food is forgettable the people may not be experienced.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I may not be in a I think that you know there's a place that I won't name that I went to in North Carolina and I absolutely loved the history and the learning and the people.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't very impressed by the food right and so maybe the food my be forgettable but the experience and the people may not be right and I think that that does happen.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that it probably happens with just any kind of cuisine you might have you might have a great experience but the food was like yeah the food was fine but the people were amazing.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and that does you know seem to happen with restaurants but that's happened to me enough times at this point you know my life that you know definitely at least a few of my barbecue travels have been like.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I wish the food was a little bit better but my goodness that the people and the history and all these other things really made this a special trip and I think that you know.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That's probably happening a number of people but it's it's six with me that I'm usually going to get something out of that visit.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it's just not about the food that's not the only thing you're there for the food is good and that's kind of what it's at the center of it all but it's not just about the food you can go and and still have a great experience regardless of what is on your plate now you want to have good food but you can always find something else good there in that barbecue world so speaking of good let's get into the barbecue jules we're getting a little title time here.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to find about your barbecue cigarette recipe you came all what to talk about that so let's hear what is your secret barbecue recipe to share with the low and slow barbecue show audience.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I don't think it's it's it's it's me it's kind of like I'm not so secret recipe because I have written about it but please go to my CBVQ dot com and search for my mac and cheese recipe okay that is some I love macronies and I basically I got so obsessed with one point that I just I would just try different variations of.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_02]: different noodles and different cheeses and things like that and you'll see it in my recipe but I really a very strong reponent of making sure you incorporate at least one third of your cheese needs to be smoked cheese because we'll really add to the flavor and the profile and make it a unique.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: macronian cheese so you it's sometimes hard to find some that's not depending or maybe you go smoke your own cheese, but the point is this go check out my my macaroni and she's.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_02]: recipe on NYCBBQ dot com okay and give that a give that a read because I've had enough people now that if told me they've tried it loved it so a very confident that you'll enjoy it and feel free to.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Try different cheeses right don't just stick to the same thing each time do different cheese blends and you'll find different things stick out in the flavors.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_01]: find the variety that you like the best yeah we'll check it out well put the link in the blog as well and share some pictures there when we promote this out in the world but it's in my CBBQ dot com right yeah.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: macron cheese so yeah you mentioned macon cheese when you're going out into the barbecue world is there any one thing that you're looking forward to kind of determine okay this is a place that they know what they're doing here is it macon cheese or.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you know maybe aside in a protein where do you what what sets the standard for good when you're on a barbecue restaurant visit.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: well on the side macon cheese number ones that's one of my favorite side so I'm always looking for a good one it not to not to creamy not to thick like it needs to be the perfect consistency has flavor.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes it's okay if there's like little additions like you know something a crunchy on top or whatever occasionally but I'm usually like add don't need that to be sure is poor product needs to be good okay.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: macron cheese but I think let's get real baked beans I think really important really important side and I think that what I noticed about that is.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually don't want it to be too sweet that's one of my big things I think too too many places will just go overboard on you know sugar content on their beans but the beans can speak for themselves in the flavor so making sure that there's some kind of meat usually like.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: for nins or pull pork or some kind of meat like to get in there that gives it extra flavor but I think usually there's a little bit too much sugar so I'm going to use that as a parameter to when I'm trying the sides now on the meats.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: at this point let's get real brisket really does tell you a lot about how good a barbecue restaurant is because so many places serve a similar type of like Texas style brisket these days and.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: do you can really tell if the if the restaurant is being current with the trend or if they are not really paying attention and if that brisket is great.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's you know low and slow and and been made with love then I feel confident I'm probably going to like a lot of the other meats that I'm into things that I'm going to try but if I get into it and it's dry and just doesn't really have a lot of flavor and like well.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and they were really hoping that I was going to use the barbecue sauce there right but I didn't because I just tried to straight up right.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and and I noticed that you know when the brisket's really good a lot of the meats usually all the other meats are really good too so kind of helps.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: you know with that learning.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah but you don't go and say well let me get a brisket in a beans and mac and cheese and I'm going to come back and see if I won't some more you kind of got to get it all out there figure out.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go all out there and if it's good if it's not I'm going to enjoy the experience in another way.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: you know what though here's the thing is if it's a place that you could go to again again maybe your first visit.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: oh okay is trying some of the staples and then you're like oh these guys know what they're doing I'm going to order a lot more stuff so depending on your situation now if it's a.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: probably the only time I'm going to go to this place in my life I'm going to order a bunch of different stuff and try everything.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah but if it's a place that's like local I'll try just some staples and just give it a little sampling and then see how feel about.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah sure okay so let's talk about you you mentioned those 25 some odd states that you've been to or there and I want to ask the best because it's impossible I know to pick up best but do you have any that are just like all time life timeers are exotic that you're.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_01]: super proud of you mentioned snows and you know a couple other hairs along the way but it's something that's just like your all time bucket list number one you proud you did that.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's two journeys that we did was with the smoke sheet that really encapsulate a lot of what I think is special about the barbecue world.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_02]: so right and I recently did a North Carolina South Carolina journey wrote about that in the smoke sheet and we actually met you and some other folks at john geez.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that is an incredible incredible experience of it's definitely you know a top 10 kind of barbecue experience for me such good people such good food everything you try is good you know to mean like that.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: the where only a few places I've actually been to where I can feel very confident saying everything I tried was good john geez Franklin yeah.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a very much belongs to the conversation where you might try a lot of everything and everything is good.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: so I think that you know when it comes to those kind of special places I really think that you you know they're so memorable because the food is just so dang good but also memorable because the people that you had the food with were great.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that was a recent experience you go back to our you know our Houston trip that we had and you know I think truth was definitely up there for us that we just loved everything about it.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to just pile on because gold I know goldies is number one or whatever but I did go.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't go with anyone that I knew I wouldn't mind it but it happened to be nearby then I was like well I only got one chance here like I'm not going to try to you know coordinate this you know so I.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I had the opportunity to go and spend some time there and I still I'm I'm was very impressed and I know it's no surprise to me that people from the goldies kind of universe have now gone on to open their own.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: This is like marbspeakew and things like that like it does not surprise me at all that that collection of people that are really treated serious if you're doing.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I've gone on then to open up other restaurants and things like that.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So as you're taking these trips that you've talked about,

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you shared the nuggets from a couple of them with Carolina in Houston.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I know you've made many others.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what's the secret to planning a good barbecue road trip

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: or finding a good barbecue destination

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: when you go to an unfamiliar place?

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, number one is I think you should talk to people.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: If you know someone who's going to be,

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: who's lived around there or had a connection to there,

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: you should start by asking people

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: who know what they're talking about,

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_02]: but they're a little bit and see what they think.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that the funny thing is now

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: we're in such a digital age

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: that a lot of folks, even if you're a small restaurant,

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: will be on Instagram or TikTok or some other platform right?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can get a little bit of sense about

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: what they care about,

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: what they're emphasizing from their social media.

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that I miss as a weird one to me,

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but like, you probably can,

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you can tell, do you even just from the look of the food?

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not the photos that the restaurant posts,

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_02]: but people who post about the restaurant's food

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and you get a little bit closer and look at the food.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And just from the photos,

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: you can tell if the food is good.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I know that this is, it's a wild thing to just be like,

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: once you spend enough time in the barbecue world,

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: look at it and you can go,

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I know that that's gonna be a good bite.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Or you know, it looks okay, maybe it's something

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that's overcooked or something.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You can know that,

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: but a lot of what people post now

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's the way that the online community

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: has kind of really opened up

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and posts about barbecue so much

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that you can learn so much from people

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that are posting about barbecue, talk to your friends

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and even like some of the sort of people

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_02]: who've just been around barbecue forever,

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: like our good colleague who writes for us

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes John Tanner or somebody that I would have no problem

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: being like, hey John, have you been to such place?

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was probably been there

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_02]: because he's been to so many places.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that just making sure

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: you talk to people who love barbecue,

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: travel, provide with you and they can at least start

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_02]: pointing in the right direction.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that will be the exact place you go,

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but you'll get close.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got two young kids,

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: you've got a wife, you've got married

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to the barbecue restaurant.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: How does your family tolerate your barbecue journey?

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I would say that they tolerate as a good word.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I will, of course, I will try to make sure

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: that barbecue gets added onto any trip that we do.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I think my wife has been pretty supportive

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_02]: as long as the whole trip is dominated by barbecue.

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, all right,

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll go to one place that you want to go to.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll go pop into this place.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I always, just I have so many places

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: pinned all over the country of places that I want to go to.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So if even there's the inkling of like,

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, we should go to this place.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll be like, hey, we should go to this place

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_02]: because I have this place that's pinned here.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: This barbecue is not a joy that I need to go do.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just like, that's the first thing

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that you tell me every time we're talking about a trip.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, you don't even know,

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: like, I don't even have like a good like,

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_02]: you see, yeah, more a good cultural artifact,

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: land site, whatever.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I have a barbecue joint and that's my cultural landmark

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that I want to go to.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Not the wrong with that.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, but I would say that I have a two year old

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and he does enjoy some barbecue.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got to keep working on him

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and opening up his mind about different kinds of foods.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, it's too, we can't really

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: like, I can't really sell him on how amazing this is

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: because he just eats his food.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, beans.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You get there, give me time, you'll get there.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Where do you find the continuing interest

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: in the motivation?

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about how your fire got lit.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you keep that fire lit?

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you keep it going now?

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01]: There's been started.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that part of the travel and meeting people

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and always kind of being looking for the new thing,

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I think keeps me going.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I genuinely love information

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and learning about things.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So part of these journeys is about meeting new people,

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: trying new food, trying new things.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Things that haven't we haven't seen a lot of being done.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: When I get to go try those things,

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just speak to a restaurant

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: that is here near me in Brooklyn, Barclin, Barclin, Barclin,

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_02]: for you uses Dominican flavors with Texas Barclin.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had really experienced that before.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So when I started going to some of his first pop-ups,

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, whoa, this actually is kind of a unique thing.

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I get to go try those things

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that I've never tried before,

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what's gonna keep me going.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, is the pursuit of the new shiny thing.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But I still love going to all of the places that I love, right?

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm always looking for around the corner

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: for the next new thing that is gonna really impress me.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Very good.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take it to the low and slow showdown here.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: The last little bit of our time.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Just some quick hitters.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: One word questions and answers to get through,

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_01]: first of all, the name of the barbecue joint

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that you grew up on.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Smokehouse barbecue.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: What is your current barbecue go to?

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Bark barbecue.

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Your favorite protein to eat,

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: pork, beef, chicken, turkey or something else.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Beef.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You've mentioned your two favorite sides already.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Microny and cheese and baked beans.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01]: What's after that?

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna go with it.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter if you're not gonna order it.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's true.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It's true.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have to study the menu.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll go with potato salad.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: What is the best state in these United States

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_01]: for barbecue?

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Texas.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a nice and unbiased opinion from New York City.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Best North Carolina barbecue style.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Eastern, Western, Lexington or mustard from South Carolina.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Eastern.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: What?

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I've had it the most and I've just really fallen for

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that vinegar style and a lot of,

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02]: also some of the best whole hog joints that I've been to.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Our chest is so steeped in Eastern tradition

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and now that I've been to several of those places,

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_02]: it's very fun for me and I love that style so much.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't go wrong there.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So, against this earlier but I'll ask anyway,

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: it's sauce is it better with or without?

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I say it's better without but I'll use a caveat

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: that I have no problem with adding sauce.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: After I've tried it with the sauce, right?

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And I have so many, you know,

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I know people who make sauce, I love sauce

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think that, you know, keep adding your sauce

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: to your barbecue but try it without it.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: See how it is without it.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then have it with it.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's another layer, another experience, something else

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: around the corner.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: What's your favorite non-barbecue meal?

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Favorite non-barbecue meal is probably,

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I, well, love Italian dishes.

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So, probably something like lasagna or, you know,

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_02]: a good, you know, like a good pasta dish or something like that.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But I love, I love like all food.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I think this one, but I've had a lot of amazing Italian dishes

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and actually even food it Italy as well

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and love that cuisine.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So, who does my carbs, right?

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So the hardest question most important answer

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: is barbecue of verb or noun.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I say it is a noun.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I think you should really, you know, keep it as,

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: it is a, it is a topic, it is a style, it is,

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: there's so much to it as encompassed as a noun

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_02]: versus just being a verb.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And that my friends is the low down from Sean Ludwig,

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_01]: aka in was a baby cue, co-founder of the smoke sheet,

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Sean, thanks so much for joining us today.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, appreciate it.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You've been listening to the low and slow barbecue show

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: on the mesh.tv network of podcast,

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_01]: be sure to visit us online at lowslopebqshow.com.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: That's where you'll find the blog.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You can hear other podcast episodes as well.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, if you like what you hear,

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: give us a five star rating

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that helps other people find the podcast too.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, visit lowslopebqshow.com.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You can subscribe to the low down newsletter.

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll send the latest blogs podcast,

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Carolina BBQ News and Events all directly to your email

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: in box every Tuesday morning.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to our guest, Sean Ludwig,

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: as well as our producer Andrew Moose

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and the whole team at the mesh.tv network of podcast.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Most especially, thank you for listening

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to the low and slow barbecue show.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, for the best barbecue

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and the best barbecue podcast, make it low and slow.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_00]: You've been listening to the mesh

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and online media network of shows and programs

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: ranging from business to arts

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: is forced to entertainment music to community.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Our programs are available on the website

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: as well as through iTunes and YouTube.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Check us online at the mesh.tv.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Discover other network shows

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and give us feedback on what you just heard.