Butts for Babies Pitmaster Kyle Sutton

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is the MESH.

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the best things about the barbecue community is a camaraderie that quickly develops among the people who've shared goals not just making great barbecue, but goals of helping other people while honing their meat smoking craft.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Today we're going to meet one of those hardworking pitmasters, Kyle Sutton. He's got a great story to share about his barbecue journey and his mission to an important need in his Carolina community.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to The Low and Slow Barbecue Show Kyle.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Siger, thanks for having me sir. Happy to be here.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, looking so forward to talking to you more. And Kyle's going to tell us about his barbecue for babies organization, how he found his way to the barbecue smoker, and some of the secrets of the trade he's developed lately.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Just keep listening. You're going to find out some of the tips on how you can deliver a barbecue impact to nonprofits in your community.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, you can get advice from other pitmasters in The Low and Slow Barbecue Show at LowSlowBBQShow.com.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You'll find all our interviews as well as blogs with recipes, tips, commentary, all that at LowSlowBBQShow.com.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: We've also got a new YouTube channel, videos of podcast, barbecue tour stops, video interviews with great pitmasters like Kyle and from our Carolina Barbecue Festival in Charlotte, which again brings us back to Kyle.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I was so excited to get on the phone with him after meeting him and kind of cross and pass with him at that Carolina Barbecue Festival in Charlotte back in April of 2024.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's certainly a great organization. And you've got one too, Kyle. I know. But before we kind of get into the organization that you've created, let's talk about Kyle.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get into smoking meat, Low and Slow?

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm a native North Carolinian. There are about five of us left.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So I grew up on the eastern side of Wake County, just like 45 minutes or so from Wilson. So really phenomenal whole hog barbecue was always very close by.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Now this is at a time when barbecue isn't trendy. You don't have like, you know, Aaron Franklin CNN, like it's still like, you know, cheap feeder crowd food.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I moved away from home and really missed good barbecue. So I kind of got into it.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, lady, I was dating the time got me a Crock Pot indoor barbecue pit. And that's really just a big red Crock Pot and within six months, I've got smokers on my patio at my apartment, you know, very much against the rules of the complex and got the bug and escalated from there.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Wow. That's a great matriculation from Crock Pot to the real thing, you know, because some people don't say that Crock Pot don't count.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It does not because you miss you miss the smoke. I'm like, okay, the texture is there. The flavor is not yet doesn't sit right in my spirit. We had to fix it, man.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. So how did you expand from that personal exploration into, you know, supporting and collaborating some other pit masters out around the Carolinas?

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So as I got into barbecue, I wanted to hone my craft further. I went into a barbecue class set under Chris Prieto. Goodness, well over a decade ago.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm going on to do a bunch of great things. Prime barbecue, chopped food network. He's he's everywhere. But at the time, he was still a project manager at a clinical research company at the time called Quintiles and catering.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of got on the prime barbecue train very early. He became a barbecue sensei upgraded to a commercial smoker. I started doing comps on the weekend. So kind of some backyard, some KCBS.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I realized very quickly like I don't want any of the things that come from competition, right? I'm not after a restaurant or a cookbook or a sauce deal. I'm just competitive and I like feeding the crowd.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I care about hospitality. I like making meat. So right about that time as I'm having this epiphany moment, I had a good friend that he and his wife were adopting and I knew kind of anecdotally that adoption was expensive, but I didn't know how expensive.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: This is over four years ago. And you know, they just give me a human baby no preference on gender, ethnicity, country of origin disability, just a human child. It was like 35 grand, right?

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the low end. Okay. If you do international adoption, you got to go be in country for weeks at a time. Some of these are six weeks like so much so that adoption loans are an industry. So I said, hey, you know, I love you and your wife, you're an important part of my life.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: We can do one of two things. I can write a check one time, or if we put that money into some pork butts, I think we can scale it a couple of times and take kind of a chunk out of what you guys have to raise.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I did that and butts for babies was born. It's still very much kind of a grassroots thing. It's all, you know, word of mouth just kind of people kind of in their community that heard about it and attended.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But a few years in and dozens of kids later, it's a good time. And it's a project that's near and dear to my heart.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, butts for babies. A great idea. I love, I love to hear how that kind of got started there now. You know, I'm going to get some tips from you a little bit later on, but you know, maybe first talk about, you know, what are some of the success and challenges of coordinating a charitable endeavor, really making that move from, you know, the barbecue pitmaster who just loves smoking meat into being somebody that's, you know, kind of coordinating something that

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: is doing good for somebody else.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It was surprisingly easy. You know, this was kind of based around like a church community as well. And like my word, if you can't sell pulled pork barbecue to Baptist in North Carolina, like just go home, you're bad, you're bad at everything.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So it actually like once we had the model, it was actually really straightforward. So like issue one was to do this well. You have to have capacity. Right. So I think I was clicking on like Meadow Creek BX 50 which is a pretty good size size of refrigerators upright box smoker.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It probably does two dozen butts, but this thing kind of ran away from us out of the gate. And I had to do three dozen or so. No, no more than that. It was like 52 butts that we did that first run. So I actually cooked them on an oiler, which is a large like rotisserie model smoker.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the one I use actually still sits one of the three that sit in prime barbecue today. It was mounted on a flatbed trailer. Chris did not have the restaurant.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And so like getting capacity with issue one, the second part was figuring out like operationally what model makes sense, right? Because you know you could go just kind of cash and carry but your goal is to maximize sales, minimize waste and sending that family home with as much cash as possible.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So the model we went to was a pre-sale model, right? We you know, buttsforbibbies.com slash whatever family order in advance pick up while you're there. But you know, Michael, barbecue is an imprecise science. The yields vary based on the marble of the meat.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: How long it could like a thousand things affect how much you know, there's a rough formula but you always have some extra. So we did cash sales for the extra. And then the last piece is just labor logistics. So I'm not a restaurant. I don't have a team of you know, professional meat cutters and sauce makers and the whole bit.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But it actually becomes a really fun kind of family activity, right? We kind of put the ball in the court of the family to say like hey, we're gonna provide know how and labor and some seed investment on supplies and infrastructure. But you know, the night of I'm going to need you and your family to come out come to my place out here in Holly Springs

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and actually season support buds and make slaw and you know, get out back on the on the burner and make pot of sauce. And that's great. It's actually really great time to find the activity their community. I mean we've never had a deficit of people if anything we've had too many.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's so culturally relevant like, you know, I need three people for the night and now I've got eight people in my house would have to like entertain, you know, 78 year old me ma is not really helping with the barbecue but like try to talk her out and not come right.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Definitely. Definitely.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so how much how much you guys moving during the course and started kind of interrupt you and hope I have not distracted you. How much you guys moving for one of these butts for babies events?

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really it really varies greatly. You know, I would say on the low end just in like raw product were probably coming in like 200 pounds of product or so. But again, like the size of this thing really hinges on the network of the family.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. This thing spreads far and wide there on sports teams, the Chamber, the Rotary Club, like I'm a big deal on Facebook, like whatever it is. We've had we've had some some engagements that has been 600 800 pounds of raw of raw products.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it's a decent, decent chunk of pork just to turn out on a Friday night again for a home cook. Right. Different equation if I'm, you know, a restaurant somewhere for a backyard is legit operation.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So what's next? What's next for butts for babies now that you guys are kind of sounds like you got the wheels very well in motion.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, we're kind of at a crossroads where, you know, I could do word of mouth indefinitely. Right. Like that's the thing that's that self sustaining. I also realize there's room to help a lot more people if we if we scale looking at you know, hey, do we bring on

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: potentially, you know, one or two full timers. That's kind of the crossroads rep like it's pretty far from my actual vocation. So I work in tech marketing. That's what I do like I help software companies go go public.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So figuring out like one, do I want the kind of the do I have the time for this other project? And you know what what would it take in terms of you know finances commitment, like it's a little different when it goes from hey this is a volunteer project to like okay I have to run this thing as a business that pays its own rent and we're trying to decide whether or not to to jump there

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: or a few ways it could go. Yeah, yeah that's very exciting and certainly there's other folks that have made that path but it's always a tough tough decision between the main hustle and the side hustle you know no matter how good the cause is at the end you know the main thing is trying to keep

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_01]: something like that going for a for a good cause in the community and that's that's great to you guys so take just a moment you talked a little bit about who call is you know tell me about your experience in the barbecue life you know what do you enjoy most about about being in in that world.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I would say by a very wide margin my favorite thing about barbecue is the people that sounds corny but it's totally true.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I've not met a more open and hospitable group of folks like to absolute strangers than in the barbecue community so like my relationship with Chris just came out of out of a meeting.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I've met some not just nationally known but like world renowned pit masters just by kind of hanging out at the restaurant so like I got to know Aaron Franklin pretty well just by going to Frank Lins you know years ago and Aaron was there that day and he came out

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and spoke to people in advantage and I said to the cashier I'm checking out like I'd love to be there is like yeah that was that was your moment you know 30 seconds ago he's gone now I go to leave and a woman says no no no come over here.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And so she has me stand up on a bench and I'm peeking over through like an upper ventilation vent like a mesh like screen door sort of thing into the pit and Aaron finally goes man I quit quit being weird just come inside and hang out.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I spent like hour hour and a half of the air.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like Rodney Scott down in Hemingway so there's not a so like as people see that like hey you're you're sincerely interested you're kind of student of the craft they're very open to kind of hanging out sharing knowledge sharing technique being in touch in meaningful ways.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And that by far is my favorite part of our view.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah definitely encountered a similar experience that guys like you know Robbie Robinson down at City Limits or Fort Grove and Troy out there was extremely hospitable to me down there the people at people I'm sorry at Paul Mara down in Charleston, South Carolina definitely similar experiences there and it's great just like you said it you know if you demonstrate some interest in what they're doing you've got some genuine appreciation for what they're

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: doing they're always welcoming you know to kind of come in and learn more about that so you know tell me Kyle what is your barbecue specialty what do you feel like you do the best.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Now you're exactly right and I think about even even where we met was kind of the first of an experiment so I got no Elliott Moss just through him being at Buxton Hall, then I was kind of staying in touch like I met him at a festival up here in in Bahama like eight or nine years ago.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And we just kept in touch and I finally said hey like you know the comp thing taught me a bunch. This fundraiser taught me a bunch but I haven't really leaned into kind of like the, like the higher end like chef side of barbecue like somebody like

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Kelly literally that has like a fondant background and now brings that know how into the barbie world so I just send my text. Hey man, I want to like come learn some stuff.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just pop up to your next festival and put me to work. And he did and we've done it a few times now and it's kind of our thing and as I've talked to other pit master like if you want to come, you know be be useful.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: The doors are open. So you're asking about my specialty so it's funny man. I being from, you know, Eastern North Carolina.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Whole hog barbecue will always have my heart. That that's one of my my favorite bites of barbecue is a little bit of several parts of the pig.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: But as I got into into competition, I was going to like Central Texas quite a bit and just spending time there partially for work.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know we do a Monday or Thursday to Friday in the office then take Saturday go with the barbecue trail.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So I've got a deep love for all things beef as well like I make a pretty rocking brisket of beef rib.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm grinding like a pretty legit Texas sausage also. So you know I think it's less about kind of you know an individual specialty and more about being able to appreciate kind of the pantheon of barbecue goodness that our nation has to offer.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm at.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah. And so I guess that kind of the same answer for what do you enjoy eating the most you know it's one amongst the variety and appreciating you know everything that's out there to offer as opposed to just picking just one thing over another right.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly that man like I will say when I'm when I'm out when I'm out and about you know when I'm trying a restaurant for better or worse Texas barbecue has been kind of adopted is like not even the the national standard, the international standard right.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So almost wherever you go you can pretty reliably see and so you know I'm good for kind of the the the you know the pulled pork brisket rib combo or the rib brisket sausage.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I think a sausage says a lot about a restaurant you can learn kind of you know their seasoning their technique like there it there's a lot that goes into producing a good sausage and I just love to kind of experience that man so again that's a non answer

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_02]: answer that answers many things but that's where my head is.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's great. That's great to get a good to get a good insight there so you know as you mentioned we've had some involvement with the Carolina barbecue festival in Charlotte and I know that you've done a few different events like that.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: You know how does what we're doing here in the Carolinas compare to what you were finding out West in Texas specifically you know are we in the game you know is there and I'm sure against there's probably peaks and valleys but you know what are your perspective on on how we're performing compared to what they've got.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah man I would say the not even with North Carolina but the Carolinas as a whole are very much in the game. So in my years on the road I also got to know Daniel Vaughn so the the Texas Monthly Barbecue editor.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, many spends time in the Carolinas you know finding kind of adaptations of Texas barbecue and there there's a lot to love I mean I'm just thinking about within a two hour radius of you know my home that's out of Raleigh.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Mike D so Mike DeLos Santos doing some amazing stuff Smith smoke smoke out smoke house and smoothies down in Wake Forest Lawrence barbecue Jake would out in Durham doing really really incredible barbecue.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's good to see these folks that are cooking and not to making a splash locally. A lot of folks in that kind of list I fired off from the hip are making splashes nationally as well.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know if you look at the events if you talk to these folks individually and you hear about the events they're working on where you know they they technically can't drop the name of the celebrity they're working with but I mean they're doing some great things so without a doubt.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: The Carolinas run the map in a in a in a big way. Yeah that's definitely that's encouraging to hear a lot of those guys that we've been fortunate to have there on the on the low and slow barbecue show.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I know you mentioned Jake there he's great guy really got some cool stuff going on in that part of the day for sure. I stole my pork technique from Jake man he didn't even know I've never told him to his face but it's true man so Jake was on

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: moonshine air is the smoke ring. Okay. And he was talking about his technique for pork now so the conventional wisdom on pork is like hey I'm going to pump a lot of sugar into my rub.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Jake does none of that man he puts out a really phenomenal for so he puts on his pork man he said on the show this is not like a secret.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really just a combination of like salt black pepper maybe garlic and once I pulled the sugar from my rub now you have the ability to push pork hot and fast.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a game changer man. Jake is phenomenal like some similar thing that similar Elliott fine dining background brought that into barbecue man and the end result has been incredibly delicious.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Both of them pushing the envelope for sure and it's cool it sounds like you got some cool connections to those guys tell me where do you turn for advice in a moment and it may be better ideas is for inspiration

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: you mentioned Jake and Elliott obviously but you know if you've just got a moment where you need an idea where do you go for that.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I mean that's what I love about barbecue I mean I think when you're developing your individual technique kind of like how in life you're the average of your five closest friends.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I think your your cooking technique is kind of drawn from people you find to be inspirational as well so man as of late fire management has been like heavy on my mind.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so if you look back at like Aaron Franklin's first book we talks about you know people thought it was going to be a cookbook about brisket it was 75% like fire making.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I've really been kind of like focused on the different ways to manage and use a fire and man as of late nobody in my opinion does that better than Elliott Moss who we spent the day with in Charlotte man.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I just watched the things he does intuitively and it blows my whole mind I mean I know we're on time but all like some of the things I've seen him do man he built a giant walk over a burn barrel in Bahama and made some of the best sides I've ever had.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: In in Raleigh we cooked a gang of pork loins. Okay because it had to be done kind of like quick it was the morning of whatever and he did them on a on a bq which is normally used for like a whole heart.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So he takes out the deflector plate he burns wood down to coals and builds really like a three zone fire man hot direct kind of medium heat indirect and then an upper cooling wrap and man just the things he's able to do I mean I've seen him cook a 50 gallon stock pot on basically like a travel grill he has a little like you know probably like 14 by 13 grill he sells called the Priscilla and I've seen it.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I own Priscilla man it's phenomenal and I've seen him cook a massive stock pot on you know basically a grill that is like a better version what you find in a state park man.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it has such an impact on the quality of your food good smoke versus bad if you've ever bitten into a thing and it tastes like gasoline.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: That's that's you know that's that's bad that's bad smoke from a fire that's not burning the right way man.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And so like that that idea is is basic man but I'm blown away with just the versatility of what you can put out almost irrespective of equipment if you understand the fire management side man so that that's been kind of the the inspo exploration the how do I get better and that that's what I'm looking through right now.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and how much of the varieties of wood or the wood variety does that play into the fire management have you got to do different things for different woods as they burn in different ways.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is where you get into kind of like the all the variables that affect the way your your fire burns right it's the variety of wood because you know some burn hotter than others.

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the age of the wood how long they've been cut right because you know there's kind of a sweet spot of about you know a year give or take where there's enough moisture in the wood that it still imparts good flavor but it's not so so wet that it won't burn.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You can get to drive where you get a lot of heat burns hot and fast.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Not a ton of flavors that's a factor.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: The variety of wood to your point in parts you know that that flavor profile is going to change so like I'm an advocate of using just what's local so in North Carolina that's white oak red oak hickory some pecan and that's what works for me but if you get down to like Texas like post oak on paper Reigns King but you pop in and see a guy like Miguel Vidal at Valentina's

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: barbecue doing some incredible like Tex-Mex barbecue and he cooks on Mesquite.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and the the misconception on Mesquite that it's too overpowering to really cook with man but his barbecue is sweet and mild and delicious man and that that goes back to like the management side man so it really does make a difference.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really sharing some great secret time insight here for some of the intimate details of your barbecue journey Kyle Sutton and again originator of butts for babies and I really do appreciate you joining us today.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You've shared with us a secret recipe I'll get to that just a second but let me kind of go back to the butts for babies piece.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm somebody out there that wants to get started doing this barbecue for charity idea, you know, maybe what's a little bit of advice that you'd offer to someone to do that because I know that it's more coming.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I've thought about doing it myself and I know some other people that do it's what's some what's some advice you would offer to those folks looking to try to do that.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, it's a good question man and I think you know one of the angles that we thought about for butts for babies was you know is there a version of this thing we kind of like open source the model right so like the accessibility of what we're doing is not a thing I want to I want to gate keep.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I would say this like you're almost certainly going to be rolling on on pork butts like don't don't overdo it.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I've seen cookouts that you know aspire to you know six meats and four sides like now this isn't like we're trying to replicate the experience of going to like, you know, like a well known barbecue spot like we're doing this thing for profitability and scale.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're probably doing pork. You're maybe doing a super simple slaw like literally a slaw mix from like, you know, Costco Sam's Club restaurant depot or you're just cutting cabbage and then some carrot, Duke's Mayo, salt pepper.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Be blessed like that's that's the whole thing and maybe like a side like like like a chip man that that's the model.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I would look at where a lot of people lose their shirt on barbecue is in seasonings and sauces you're going to plan to make those yourself so you're going to look at things you can produce you know easily cheaply that that tastes good that stand up to the cooking method.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And lastly just just talk to folks man so I mean I'll leave my contact in the I'm sure they'll be in the show notes man I'm passionate about other people kind of get involved.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you have questions, give me a shout and I'm always happy to kind of talk about it unpack it. Talk about your model and how to pull it off. And we can go from there.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll definitely share that link in the notes and elsewhere throughout the low and slow barbecue show. Let's talk about that secret recipe and I'm not going to give all the details away or we'll get it out there in the blog here eventually and but first tell me what you've shared and why you feel like this is a recipe that was important to share with our audience.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean I'm just going to share my my house seasoning my my all purpose rub. So this is coming from that conversation with with Jake.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know kind of the realizing that he doesn't use any sugar in his rub so I said like handy I need a good kind of like Texas esc rub to go in a lot of places. And so this is this is that rub man it's good on pork just as a standalone.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's good on really any protein so I threw it on pork chops last night that I seared I put it on chicken I put it on fish.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Man I'm feeling fancy from doing veggies in the house I mean literally a bag of frozen veggies in the microwave five minutes steam drain them table spoon of butter, some of this rub squeeze the lemon little bit of parm it's like you're at a steakhouse man.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, on a brisket you can use this totally on a brisket or you can pair with a more traditional beef rub and then then use this kind of a pop spice man so do I just read the recipe now or how do I

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you just hit me kind of kind of the parts of it because I'm slow on getting these things up on the blog.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I want people to hear it because I know that it's going to be a good thing so far away.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's super easy man cup of kosher salt.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a conventional okay I'm a Morton's kosher salt guy not a dive.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay I like the kind of the bigger chunks versus like the flake the dissolve.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a cup of coarse black pepper sounds like a 16 mesh black pepper if you go to a spice shop.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're at more of like, you know traditional store is maybe marketed as like a butcher grinds not like the course like just cracked pepper that's almost like peppercorns but like the one down from that.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Three tablespoons of granulated garlic.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: This is not garlic powder.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: This looks like you know kind of like the granules of garlic not the powder.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's a tablespoon of cayenne for some heat.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Now the cayenne is an optional thing but you know I like little spice we'll burn it back in.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You know it's in there and that's the whole thing man.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I make that pounds at a time and use it throughout the year man it's good stuff.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow sounds like a good flavor of profile like you said that'll go through a lot of things but I like to add a little bit of kick so I'm going to go with some more of the cayenne and kick it up there.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You want the cayenne.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Little heat you'll be fine.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Well if it's Eastern style for sure because you got a little bit of that pepper there in the sauce and everything else around there.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So you know that's a good spot to kind of bring it down to the low and slow showdown here just a few quick hitters that will get through and maybe get a little bit of explanation here on the back end here from Cayenne.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So first of all right out of the gate Cal what's your favorite wood.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: For me it's white oak from picking one.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay and why is that.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's local here so a lot of like the flavor of what is traditional Carolina barbecue is rooted in that it also exists really well in like a lot of Texas queues so I like you know I like having a wood on hand that regardless of what style I'm aspiring to cook to it's going to it's going to fit and work well and do do justice to it.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So that reason.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay we've talked about your favorite to cook and maybe your favorite to eat but what about those sides what's your favorite side in a barbecue plate.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So man it's almost a different answer so if I'm home.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I want a good custard baked like southern style mac and cheese I make one that's pretty rocking.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I love a good kind of colored green with a smoke meat as well.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly man tougher to get depending on what restaurant you're in now I've seen there there's some of my friends do are pretty are pretty rock and mac but you know I also like to kind of play it safe as well man I love a I love a good baked bean alongside barbecue.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Man I'm having fun with some of these like non conventional sides as well man so Lawrence barbecue out in Durham doing a pretty rockin broccoli Caesar Chris Prieto out in Nightdale man has a smoked sweet potato salad.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay so like chunks we better like sour cream bacon you didn't know you needed in your life man.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow that sounds fantastic.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So the best state in these United States for barbecue.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh man I think that's such a tough question and so controversial man.

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're all about barbecue controversy.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know man.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing man so years ago you would see true regional style man but barbecue is such a popular export right.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Your hard pressed to.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah I mean yeah okay and if you go to a Texas spot you're going to see like more but man I've had really rockin Texas barbecue in South Carolina.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I've had like phenomenal St. Louis ribs in new it's it's I can't I can't even answer man because it's just gone so far and why man I look at a guy like like Tyson ho right who at one point was doing you know he sat on your Ed Mitchell for a minute man and he was doing.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And like Eastern NC whole hog in freaking Brooklyn and doing it and doing it well.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Well so I can't I can't even pick a statement I'm forever on the road trying to bar you again it's a non answer but that's that's that's the truth for me.

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's fair enough I'm going to get another non non political answer out of your ears.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: The best Carolina barbecue style Eastern Western or South Carolina mustard.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay man I'm an Eastern guy.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: That's just that's just home for me.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I grew up with.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate the Lexington style.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think the red slaw you know again isn't acquired taste and I'm not yet yet acquired but.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Whoa that's a big egg to say here wow.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I met tomatoes and cabbage and don't want to be friends again.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Literally half the state disagrees with me and they're right man but for me Eastern Carolina pepper vinegar sauce chopped chopped.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it better with or without the sauce.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the thing right if you look at you know if you look at what a guy like Ed Mitchell right a literal legend in the space.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: If you look at how they're approached to hog man there wasn't like a like a with sauce or without like adding the sauce is part of pulling it right.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like as we pull the hog we're going to apply you know apple cider vinegar salt pepper some either either like straight red pepper or red pepper hot sauce and that was it and then like more on the side.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think the idea of like unsauce barbecue is kind of a misconception now extra sauce or not.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Important question.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I like the heat I like vinegar I like salt so I'm an extra sauce guy but if you're having like a chop whole hog there there is almost certainly some sauce applied at the time of pulling cut.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Favorite non barbecue meal in your Raleigh Durham area.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Oof.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is this is going to be a sleeper so I live in a town called Holly Springs.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a little Italian bistro out here called Asteria G. Joe and Ashley Reines phenomenal folks they moved down from New York took it over and turned around what was a very middle of the restaurant and man made it phenomenal so

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm mad I'm mad science I was there a few weeks ago he did a short rib pen Saudi.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I never had a pen Saudi man it's like it's like a purse shaped ravioli and he built it with like short rib and like a little short ribs you and you know this is a town with not a lot like we have a lot of chain restaurants are not a lot of independent restaurants

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and this this blew my mind so if I'm not cooking at home you can normally find me there doing like a tasting menu because like I trust them I trust their palates and the food is is rocking.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, now you've shared a few ideas for you know the best barbecue in the triangle I know you mentioned Lawrence and you can't ever pick one as you said it depends on the weather your mood what you're looking out for but what are maybe three that you would recommend and are there any that you

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_01]: haven't gotten to yet that you want to try to get too soon.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh man, yeah, I mean if you're you know if you're coming to the area and you're going to do like just three and even then minutes that's so tough.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I would definitely say like for Raleigh Raleigh Durham area. You want to go hit prime in in nightdale and just good food good people.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Man, what's funny about prime to the quality of their pit room is actually there it's a more grand scale than anything I've actually seen in Texas man you wouldn't expect that in North Carolina but they have three Oilers on top of full kitchen flat top

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: pit cooker for be like you might see a bunch of like you know old drumstick burners but I mean they have three of the highest in smokers in the business and the food itself is incredible.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so definitely prime.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I would also I'd kick in Lawrence barbecue as well man so as I mentioned Jake Jake came from fondining so the barbecue there is always incredible.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But when he plays around with other items in the menu he's kind of cooking from he's from one town over in apex man so he's cooking from kind of his home here as well so you'll go in and you'll see like

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Granny Helen's Apple dumplings or whatever's fry I mean so like the sides are incredible and then like because you haven't seen food background man you'll see like a fried soft shell on the menu so man you didn't know you need in your life like

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: a fried soft shell sandwich that was like in the water yesterday with a side of pork spares but you do.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Man that's two third Ferrari Durham man actually damp barbecue out in Karek so he's an up and comer as well.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Really solid food does all the Texas staples but the thing on his menu that is unique right now man is.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_02]: He calls it pork brisket.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really just like and I thought it was like the breast of a pig it's actually just a belly that he cooks like a brisket but I've not had anyone else doing doing belly in quite that way.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And man then down you know further north man Smith's smokehouse and smoothies so husband and wife team man Rashad I think his wife's name is Ashley really phenomenal stuff too man I met them at a festival and they did a

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: it was a smoked pork belly mac and cheese with barbecue sauce man and it blew my whole mind so yeah I mean that's just rally man we went from like you know a

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: barbecue desert to having an embarrassment of riches in barbecue man it's a good place to be.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah for sure okay the next couple are going to be a little bit easier to answer for you.

[00:37:23] Okay thank you.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Red or blue?

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh man just that could be a lot of ways man we're talking college teams.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We're in the Torres State.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay okay I'm an NC State guy so you know that's where I'm rolling.

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Red all the way is barbecue or barb or a noun?

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I would say barbecue is a noun personally.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I get that you know hey we're gonna go barbecue.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not British man barbecue is the thing I'm gonna serve right.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't call any of my cookers they're not barbecues they're grills or smokers or pits yeah barbecue is a noun.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And that my friends is the lowdown from Kyle Sutton the founder of Bust for Babies and a Carolina pit master

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: doing really cool things in his barbecue craft.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for joining us today Kyle let me tell you right now episode number 50 has just closed right here one of our

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: right episode certainly in the last several maybe one of the best in the first 50 so thanks so much for joining us.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me Tigger this was great.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: How to blast.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah look forward to seeing you out on the barbecue trail again.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You've been listening to the Low and Slow Barbecue Show on the mesh.TV Network of Podcasts.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Visit us online at Low Slow BBQ Show dot com that's where you'll find the blog and you can hear other podcast episodes.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: If you like what you hear in the Low and Slow Barbecue Show be sure to give us a five star rating in your favorite podcast network.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: That helps other people find our podcast.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember visit Low Slow BBQ Show dot com you can subscribe to the low down newsletter.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll send you the latest podcast blogs recipes barbecue events all that more directly to your inbox every Tuesday morning.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks again to our guests Kyle Sutton as well as our producer Andrew Moose and the whole team at the mesh dot TV Network of Podcasts.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Most especially thank you for listening to the Low and Slow Barbecue Show.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Remember for the best barbecue and the best barbecue podcast make it low and slow.

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