Safe Harbor: Celebrating 20 Years of the Goodness of God

[00:00:00] What you want, when you want it, where you want it, this is the MESH.

[00:00:09] Welcome to the Safe Harbors Shining The Light podcast where we will shine the light on community

[00:00:15] issues such as substance use disorder, poverty, homelessness and the stigma that prevents

[00:00:22] many from getting the help that they need.

[00:00:24] Thank you for joining us and I hope you enjoy this episode.

[00:00:28] Hey guys, thank you for joining us today.

[00:00:35] I am really excited about this episode.

[00:00:39] You know, Safe Harbor is celebrating 20 years of ministry this year and what better way

[00:00:46] to celebrate that than to have Debbie Haines, the founder of Safe Harbor joining Sarah

[00:00:52] and I. As you remember, Sarah is our director of development and we are co-hosts of the Shining

[00:00:58] The Light podcast.

[00:01:00] So thank you for joining us and Debbie, thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:05] This was just a real special time for me.

[00:01:09] We're going to get to do a little bit of reminiscing and you know, you started Safe Harbor

[00:01:14] 20 years ago and along the way you picked me up and then we picked Sarah up and

[00:01:19] here we are just celebrating what God has done.

[00:01:24] Sarah, you know, you and I have, it's been very important to us to have these conversations

[00:01:29] about reducing the stigma of addiction and substance use disorder and so we want to

[00:01:36] kind of bring Debbie into that conversation and Debbie, I was thinking on the way

[00:01:41] over when we tell the story for years, I told the whole story, you know, every

[00:01:49] little monument I would share, but there's been so many, so many highlights since I've

[00:01:56] been in this role even from the beginning of Safe Harbor.

[00:02:00] So we won't do every highlight today, but I'd love to know.

[00:02:06] We know you were doing jail ministry and we've all told the story about the woman

[00:02:10] that said just kept coming back.

[00:02:12] But what was going through your mind and what were you seeing?

[00:02:18] How is God working in your heart then?

[00:02:22] Wow, Vicki, it seems like so long ago and yet again, it feels like it was just

[00:02:28] yesterday. I do remember just having such a naive approach to the jail and the

[00:02:37] women that were in there really thinking the problems would be much more

[00:02:41] easily solved. But once I started going in there and hearing the stories of just

[00:02:47] how overwhelming their situations were, it was really very troubling to me

[00:02:58] because I thought they don't just need one thing.

[00:03:02] They need a host of services available and really looking around and doing

[00:03:08] the research. Some of you have heard this story that I ended up calling 65

[00:03:14] different organizations and individuals in the Hickory area, the

[00:03:19] Catawba County region, just to find out what resources were available

[00:03:25] and what was lacking. And so some really good resources are available,

[00:03:31] but such a big gap between those services and big gaps that women could

[00:03:38] certainly fall through the crack zone. So that was what was going through my

[00:03:43] head and really often going to sleep at night or trying to go to sleep at

[00:03:47] night, thinking about those conversations and really praying that God

[00:03:53] would bring someone along to make that difference, to provide the things

[00:04:01] that were needed for these ladies. And lo and behold, that person was Debbie

[00:04:07] Haynes. We're talking about substance use disorder a lot, but I wonder what

[00:04:13] was it like as far as women experiencing homelessness then? And we're

[00:04:19] so grateful for our partners at the Salvation Army for providing night

[00:04:23] shelter. But was there anywhere for women to go during the day that we're

[00:04:28] experiencing homelessness then? No, there really wasn't. They just

[00:04:35] wandered the streets and that was a lot of what women would say to me at

[00:04:40] the jail when I would suggest you could go to the Salvation Army. They

[00:04:45] would say, but I would have to be on the street during the day. And that

[00:04:50] would be very detrimental to my recovery. So it was like they're right.

[00:04:57] There's really no place for them to go during daytime hours.

[00:05:01] Yeah. And so that was the first visited the women at the Salvation Army and

[00:05:08] discipled them. And then you were, I guess the church, what was the name

[00:05:14] of the church that allowed you to use their personage? St. Paul's Lutheran

[00:05:18] Church at that time. Right. And so there you were able to open the day

[00:05:23] shelter. And then that's when I started my journey with St. Barbara in 2008

[00:05:29] volunteering there. And I was changed forever. I never ever took my

[00:05:35] pillow for granted or my home for granted after spending time with

[00:05:39] those precious ladies that had no place to lay their head. And then as we

[00:05:45] talk about, we kind of consider Sarah now our substance use disorder

[00:05:51] expert. She spent so many years in that field. So it can, both of you

[00:05:59] just elaborate how is it different today than it was then you saw a

[00:06:06] great need is the need greater today than it was then?

[00:06:10] Oh, I feel that the need is much greater today. Like you Debbie, I was

[00:06:16] very naive when I started working in substance use. I think the old

[00:06:21] school of thought you deal with the substance use and everything else

[00:06:28] should fall into place. You just got to stop using. And but when I

[00:06:33] started working alongside and I found out about safe harbor, my

[00:06:38] journey started in 2007 in the substance use field. And I ended up

[00:06:43] crossing paths with Debbie at the day shelter in 2008. And so when I

[00:06:49] started working with individuals struggling with substance use

[00:06:52] because I worked for a substance use specific treatment provider at

[00:06:57] the time, on their case plans. There was a housing goal, an

[00:07:01] employment goal, a mental health goal, a relationship goal. And

[00:07:06] they really opened my eyes to like I'm not just dealing like with

[00:07:10] the substance use issue like they don't have anywhere to live. You

[00:07:14] know, their relationships are broken. They haven't talked to

[00:07:18] their family in years. They could not name there's a portion

[00:07:22] of the treatment plan where you have to help. They have to

[00:07:25] identify their support system. I can't even name one person. And

[00:07:30] so safe harbor was an answer to prayer in so many ways for me as

[00:07:34] professional, because I could get to the women because when

[00:07:39] people are displaced and they are experiencing homelessness, you

[00:07:45] can't find them like they're on your caseload and you're

[00:07:47] supposed to be working alongside of them and helping them but

[00:07:49] you can't find them. And so it was great to be able to

[00:07:53] collaborate with safe harbor. But yeah, it was it was very eye

[00:07:59] opening to see the hoops that as a provider, you have to jump

[00:08:05] through to effectively assist individuals but just think about

[00:08:11] the hoops that they have. You know, it's just such a daunting

[00:08:15] thing when they're in survival mode, they don't know where

[00:08:19] they're going to sleep. But yeah, here comes this real bubbly

[00:08:22] blonde professional saying, okay, well, here's your lovely

[00:08:26] treatment plan. We're gonna meet all of these goals. And it was

[00:08:31] super challenging and it was heartbreaking. And so you see,

[00:08:36] wow, you begin to see the significance of community and how

[00:08:42] the community is going to have to come together to come

[00:08:45] alongside of this individual because one provider and one

[00:08:49] little social worker. 21 years old. Yeah. So it I was I've been

[00:08:58] changed just like you, Vicki and the needs now. I mean, when

[00:09:03] you think about mental health, when you think about just, you

[00:09:10] know, the content that we, you know, from social media, from

[00:09:16] images, all these things that we're processing, you know, just,

[00:09:21] you know, the cost of living all these things, relationships are

[00:09:26] in such disarray. All of those things contribute greatly to our

[00:09:30] mental health. I pretty I participated in a mental health

[00:09:34] awareness event a couple of weekends ago and last year,

[00:09:37] there were 50,000 Americans that took their own life. Wow. You

[00:09:43] know,

[00:09:44] no hope. They think they don't have any hope. So being apart

[00:09:49] with my touches on, you know, ongoing touches that I had with

[00:09:54] women that were getting services with safe harbor, I could see

[00:09:58] the hope restored in their face and in their eyes. And so it's

[00:10:02] like, okay, what's happening there that I could join in on

[00:10:07] and be a part of because well intended systems and a lot of

[00:10:12] well intended efforts. Just like me, carrying my little

[00:10:17] treatment plan around trying to help these folks work towards

[00:10:21] meeting their goals. That that you can do it, you can do it was

[00:10:28] not what was needed. It was that wraparound holistic

[00:10:33] collaborative community of support that's needed.

[00:10:37] That will lead me into what I was wondering with you, Debbie.

[00:10:40] So you had to you saw a need for women that you first did the

[00:10:46] day shelter for women experiencing homelessness and

[00:10:49] you recognize that substance use disorder was a big part of

[00:10:53] that. How in the world did you come up with a curriculum? And

[00:10:59] how did you know what they needed as far as their

[00:11:03] recovery? We know they need Christ and they needed to

[00:11:06] know who they were in Christ and that worth was in Christ. But

[00:11:10] the recovery safe harbor does such a great job with

[00:11:14] evidence based recovery tools. How did you come to that?

[00:11:19] Vicki, that was definitely a God thing because we had become

[00:11:25] familiar with what at that point was called the

[00:11:27] Association of Gospel Rescue Missions. And they had been

[00:11:33] doing this kind of work for decades. Many of them had and so

[00:11:38] I heard of a program out in Portland, Oregon called the

[00:11:42] Shepherd's Gate that was they had an excellent program for

[00:11:48] women in substance use disorder. And so we contacted

[00:11:53] them and they allowed me to come out and spend a week with

[00:11:57] them. They shared their curriculum with us. They

[00:12:01] shared, you know, the components of their programming

[00:12:04] with us. And as I saw the results that were coming out of

[00:12:09] it, it's like this is exactly what's needed in Hickory,

[00:12:13] North Carolina. So that's how we learned about the

[00:12:16] Genesis process. That's how we learned about books like

[00:12:19] Love is a Choice and Boundaries and some of the

[00:12:24] sex education types of curriculum that we use. So

[00:12:30] yeah, it was great to have a sister organization that had

[00:12:34] been doing this kind of work for a long time and had

[00:12:37] already ironed out a lot of the kinks that was so

[00:12:41] generous to offer their support toward us when it

[00:12:46] comes to curriculum. I love that. We are at Safe

[00:12:50] Harbor, one of our core values is collaboration. And we

[00:12:54] do seek out others that have been very successful. And

[00:12:57] now other agencies come to us and man, we are really

[00:13:01] we want to share because we're here because someone

[00:13:05] shared with us. Debbie, what were some things you

[00:13:07] learned as you were getting this? Would you do

[00:13:12] anything differently? And I'm well, I'm sorry. I'm

[00:13:15] keep stacking questions. What are some things

[00:13:18] you've learned and getting an organization started?

[00:13:23] Well, when people ask me that question, sometimes

[00:13:28] people come to me that are thinking of starting an

[00:13:31] organization or a ministry of some sort. And the

[00:13:34] first thing I do, of course, is bathe it in prayer

[00:13:38] because that was so key to our foundation. But the

[00:13:44] other thing is, is find out what's going on in the

[00:13:47] community and get involved in it. Because we, you

[00:13:51] know, I started going to all these different

[00:13:52] community meetings. I knew nothing really. I was

[00:13:56] just like Alice in Wonderland at these meetings. But

[00:14:00] I really needed to know, okay, this is what this

[00:14:03] group is doing. This is what this group is doing

[00:14:06] and get you know, get your name out there. So

[00:14:11] people begin to think, okay, this is what they're

[00:14:14] trying to do so we could build that collaboration.

[00:14:18] So I would always say those are the two most

[00:14:22] important things getting, getting to know what's

[00:14:26] going on in the community. You know, as far as

[00:14:30] things that I would do differently. That's a

[00:14:33] hard question because you know, it was just

[00:14:38] God just ordained every step right from the

[00:14:41] beginning. You know, obviously, it would have

[00:14:44] been great to have more funding.

[00:14:48] But we were trying to get that and that's hard

[00:14:51] to do. You know, it's just speaking with someone

[00:14:53] the other day about how hard it is to prove that

[00:14:57] you can actually do what you're saying you're

[00:14:59] going to do because funders want to see proof.

[00:15:03] They want to see evidence that what you're

[00:15:04] doing is going to work. We don't have any

[00:15:08] proof at the beginning. So it was very hard

[00:15:11] to get people to buy in to what we were

[00:15:15] doing at the beginning.

[00:15:16] Yeah, that kind of takes me back a little bit

[00:15:19] down memory lane and I was thinking as before

[00:15:23] I came on staff and I was a board member and I

[00:15:26] was a volunteer and just the struggle and the

[00:15:29] prayers and I remember staff going without

[00:15:32] pay many times. I remember particularly one

[00:15:35] summer. I pretty sure it was a summer month.

[00:15:39] You said I'm going to camp out. I need

[00:15:43] people to know. You were just at your wits

[00:15:46] end and how do I let people know that there's

[00:15:49] people on our streets that need help and we

[00:15:53] needed the funding to make that happen?

[00:15:56] And you camped out for how many nights?

[00:15:59] It was a week. I stayed in the backyard

[00:16:02] there for a week and people would come by

[00:16:05] and want to know the story and why I was

[00:16:08] doing that. And really part of it was a

[00:16:12] prayerful experience too because I wanted to

[00:16:15] identify with women who didn't have a place

[00:16:19] to go and of course my camping experience was

[00:16:22] a lot different than what theirs would be.

[00:16:25] I don't pretend to say that it was anything

[00:16:28] like what it would have been to actually be

[00:16:31] homeless and not have the resources.

[00:16:35] But I did just want to do that sort of

[00:16:38] insolidarity with the women that I knew

[00:16:42] were camping. In fact, I knew one woman who

[00:16:45] was staying on the back porch of that

[00:16:49] home before we received it.

[00:16:54] Sleeping there at night. So you know, I just

[00:16:57] thought surely if people know what the need

[00:17:00] is and that there's an organization here

[00:17:02] that's really ready to step in and meet

[00:17:04] that need that they would want to be a

[00:17:06] part of it. And I think you were right.

[00:17:09] Many people have learned about the services

[00:17:11] and many, many generous people in this

[00:17:14] community are giving to the work at

[00:17:17] Safe Harbor now. We thank you Debbie for

[00:17:20] doing the hard work of laying the foundation

[00:17:23] and going many, many weeks, months without

[00:17:27] pay to see where God would bring this

[00:17:31] organization now. Speaking of the women

[00:17:35] that you knew early on the went well now

[00:17:39] even what is what do you think the biggest

[00:17:42] misconception of women experiencing

[00:17:46] homelessness or anyone, men or women?

[00:17:49] What what do you think is the is a

[00:17:53] stigma that people have in their minds

[00:17:56] about them?

[00:17:59] I think the thing that I hear most of

[00:18:01] all is they just need to get a job.

[00:18:03] Yeah. You know, people will say if they

[00:18:05] just would work their problems would be

[00:18:08] solved. But once again, you know when you

[00:18:11] get behind the scenes and see okay

[00:18:13] there they don't have transportation.

[00:18:15] You know I used to think well they could

[00:18:17] ride the bus but there are so many

[00:18:19] limitations to where the bus goes in

[00:18:21] the hours that it runs.

[00:18:24] You know that's a big challenge for

[00:18:27] them to overcome education, job

[00:18:30] experience, you know so many things

[00:18:33] like that that keep a person from

[00:18:35] getting a job. And again if there

[00:18:38] is a high level of mental health

[00:18:43] crisis with the individuals that Safe

[00:18:46] Harbor serves and that are on the

[00:18:49] streets that are homeless that without

[00:18:53] the help that they need to help them

[00:18:56] with their mental health needs they

[00:18:58] couldn't hold down a job.

[00:19:01] So it's very challenging.

[00:19:04] It's not just a matter of go out and

[00:19:06] get a job. Yeah.

[00:19:08] Yeah and I think that you know once

[00:19:10] an individual, you know any lengthy

[00:19:14] amount of time on the street per se or

[00:19:18] experiencing homelessness you know

[00:19:21] that begins the wear and tear of an

[00:19:24] individual physically mentally begins to

[00:19:27] take place. And there's evidence behind

[00:19:30] that you know and so you really see the

[00:19:35] unraveling of a beautiful soul you

[00:19:39] know and it's hard to, once an

[00:19:43] individual has experienced

[00:19:46] homelessness for a period of time

[00:19:50] you'll find that there's community

[00:19:52] within those groups and they find a

[00:19:55] sense of connectedness there and we

[00:19:59] may not understand that. It's kind of

[00:20:01] like why would you not want to get your

[00:20:05] own place modify this about your

[00:20:09] situation but those relationships that

[00:20:11] they build that camaraderie that they

[00:20:13] have within those communities. Yeah.

[00:20:16] That was very eye-opening for me.

[00:20:18] Yeah. As a professional stepping into

[00:20:22] that world I'm an outsider you know

[00:20:26] and you have to earn rapport and you

[00:20:28] have to earn trust and that takes a

[00:20:30] while sometimes and that's why I

[00:20:33] really appreciate your desire Debbie

[00:20:35] to have the long term programming and

[00:20:38] have that open low barrier type of

[00:20:41] situation with the day shelter because

[00:20:44] you were able to achieve just that

[00:20:46] and once you listen to them and

[00:20:49] learn about them and earn their

[00:20:51] trust I mean that's when you really

[00:20:53] can start building momentum and make

[00:20:55] headway and bring individuals like

[00:20:59] volunteers in the picture bring the

[00:21:01] faith community into the picture

[00:21:03] because you've worked to earn that

[00:21:07] with individuals and I think that's

[00:21:09] really key. I found that was very

[00:21:12] key in my professional and personal

[00:21:14] walk. Yeah. And while we're talking

[00:21:16] about stigma some people that are

[00:21:18] listening to us may wonder why do

[00:21:20] they keep saying women experiencing

[00:21:23] homelessness and I remember it was

[00:21:26] many many years ago I was at a city

[00:21:29] gate formerly association of gospel

[00:21:31] rescue missions conference and I

[00:21:34] heard someone say you don't want to

[00:21:36] label people and call them the

[00:21:40] homeless or she's a homeless woman

[00:21:44] man that really hit me like I just

[00:21:48] you know I am so identity and crisis

[00:21:51] so important to me and when I realize

[00:21:54] that we're people we're doing that as

[00:21:56] a community without even realizing

[00:21:59] that we're stigmatizing by labelling

[00:22:02] labeling them. So I hope that is we

[00:22:04] talk about our friends experiencing

[00:22:06] homelessness that our whole

[00:22:08] community will understand that's why

[00:22:11] it's a season we want to offer

[00:22:13] hope they are not destined to be

[00:22:16] homeless. God wants everything for

[00:22:19] them he wants the best for them and so

[00:22:21] I love love being a part of the

[00:22:24] ministry that that's important. Yes.

[00:22:28] So as we shift from from experiencing

[00:22:32] homelessness back to substance use

[00:22:35] disorder Sarah can you paint the

[00:22:39] picture of our community now and

[00:22:42] why we've decided that we want to

[00:22:45] do everything we can to reduce the

[00:22:47] stigma. Oh well I think the overdose

[00:22:52] rates and you know are extraordinarily

[00:22:55] high and the access to substances both

[00:22:59] legal and illegal or at an all time

[00:23:02] high. So much substance use is

[00:23:08] socially acceptable. You have all of

[00:23:10] these factors

[00:23:12] being disconnected COVID you know we

[00:23:17] I know we've probably mentioned the

[00:23:19] effects of COVID but that increased

[00:23:21] isolation and disconnection really

[00:23:24] really I think have put our communities

[00:23:28] in a state of crisis in that and we

[00:23:31] are seeing ongoing ripple effects

[00:23:34] from that from women that are 65

[00:23:39] and experiencing homelessness suddenly

[00:23:42] the job loss relationships just the

[00:23:48] tension of just those toxic

[00:23:52] relationships that you know people are

[00:23:54] at home you know unable to get out

[00:23:57] and all these things just come to an

[00:23:58] emotional head and people don't know

[00:24:01] how to cope with all of that you

[00:24:03] know. And so I feel like and then

[00:24:07] substances Debbie I mean and this just

[00:24:10] to put things in perspective our drug

[00:24:12] tests that we utilize at Safe Harbor we

[00:24:14] had to purchase a 20 panel test. Wow

[00:24:18] didn't know that because of all of the

[00:24:20] different substances you know you had

[00:24:21] your standard five panel you know early

[00:24:24] in the early days but we have a 20

[00:24:27] panel test because of all of the

[00:24:30] different substances that are being

[00:24:31] utilized today and just and you know

[00:24:35] people that are in the business of

[00:24:38] selling substances they get very

[00:24:41] creative and the substances that

[00:24:45] people are taking the high that they

[00:24:47] experience and the level of you know

[00:24:51] of becoming dependent quickly you know

[00:24:55] has just escalated all the more I mean

[00:24:58] you can't keep up with all the

[00:24:59] substances that are coming out and

[00:25:01] how it's targeting our youth and so

[00:25:05] it's it's just a very challenging and

[00:25:08] I find that I'm grateful that the

[00:25:13] medical component to substance use is

[00:25:16] finally getting their recognition that

[00:25:18] it needs that holistic you hear a lot

[00:25:22] more about a holistic approach about

[00:25:24] what that means for people and so I

[00:25:28] think it brings it's brought

[00:25:33] organizations together more from the

[00:25:35] medical to the faith to human service

[00:25:38] providers to law enforcement in the

[00:25:42] early days there was like you like you

[00:25:44] needed to be a liaison between those

[00:25:46] things because people just weren't

[00:25:48] talking you know everybody was kind

[00:25:51] of siloed you you're supposed to be

[00:25:53] taking care of that that substance use

[00:25:55] part we're going to take care of this

[00:25:57] now I see the community coming together

[00:26:00] sitting at the table having discussions

[00:26:03] like we now not many people may know

[00:26:04] that we have a kataba alliance for

[00:26:07] recovery that meets monthly and it

[00:26:10] provides opportunity for law

[00:26:12] enforcement in different providers to

[00:26:14] come together and be like okay let's do

[00:26:17] something about this and I'm very

[00:26:19] proud that safe harbor has been a

[00:26:21] forerunner in a lot of those

[00:26:23] conversations and we're at the

[00:26:25] table if there is a table to be at

[00:26:28] in reference to homelessness mental

[00:26:31] health and substance use we're at the

[00:26:33] table yes and so I have just been very

[00:26:36] pleased in my observations over the

[00:26:41] years witnessing something turn move

[00:26:45] from a place of being very punitive

[00:26:47] to compassionate and that's that's

[00:26:52] just been a blessing to see and I

[00:26:55] feel like when you allow the faith

[00:26:58] community to have a say and be a part of

[00:27:02] that I really feel like that's we really

[00:27:05] can bring that prayer that compassion

[00:27:09] you know unapologetically yes I mean

[00:27:13] that's our place here in this and I

[00:27:16] I think it's very valuable and I've

[00:27:19] really seen from the court systems to

[00:27:22] like I said human service providers to

[00:27:25] medical staff really begin to embrace

[00:27:28] that and so it's allowed us to be able to

[00:27:32] be more diverse in who we can serve in

[00:27:36] our programming it used to be like yeah

[00:27:39] we don't know anything about that we

[00:27:41] not trained in that we're gonna have to

[00:27:43] get but now it's like you know what

[00:27:47] we've got we're partnered with this

[00:27:49] agency and this agency and this

[00:27:51] agency and it's it's no longer this kind

[00:27:55] of situation we're where we have become

[00:27:59] equipped to take on some of these very

[00:28:02] complex situations because of the

[00:28:05] collaboration that you're talking about

[00:28:07] absolutely Debbie I remember some people

[00:28:10] may not know that's listen to our

[00:28:12] podcast course you were the founder

[00:28:14] you were the executive director when I

[00:28:16] started volunteering and then about

[00:28:19] 2012 11 or 12 you felt God calling you

[00:28:24] to be you wanted to be over programs

[00:28:27] only that was where you felt your calling

[00:28:30] was and and I was on the board we

[00:28:32] started seeking an executive director

[00:28:35] and I'm very grateful that God called

[00:28:38] me to work alongside of you and I

[00:28:41] was thinking it's been about five

[00:28:43] years since you were on payroll at

[00:28:45] safe harbor since you own staff

[00:28:50] when I was there there were hours that

[00:28:53] you spent behind the door one-on-one

[00:28:56] with the women what advice might you

[00:28:59] have for that woman that's listening

[00:29:01] today that's contemplating recovery

[00:29:07] what advice do you have for her

[00:29:12] that's a good question Vicki I would

[00:29:14] say first of all don't lose hope

[00:29:17] because you know hopelessness is such a

[00:29:21] it's such a lie and it's so easy to fall

[00:29:24] into that trap so don't lose hope but I

[00:29:28] would also say take the first step

[00:29:31] and the first step is often going to

[00:29:34] a meeting you know those are so easy

[00:29:37] to find now a a n a there are

[00:29:41] meetings everywhere that you can get

[00:29:42] involved in and then of course I'm

[00:29:46] prejudice for safe harbor but I do think

[00:29:49] that coming to the day program the

[00:29:52] community center is a good place to start

[00:29:55] because they can help you find

[00:30:00] recovery tools recovery programs that are

[00:30:04] out there and of course you're always

[00:30:07] welcome to apply for the whole woman

[00:30:10] program at safe harbor so I would say

[00:30:13] just take the first step it's that is

[00:30:18] the most courageous step you'll ever take

[00:30:21] is to ask for help and say I can't do

[00:30:25] this alone and I you know in conversations

[00:30:28] with women over the years when asked

[00:30:31] the question what was missing from your

[00:30:36] recovery plan before they usually say

[00:30:39] one of two things or usually both one is

[00:30:42] God was missing from my program or I

[00:30:48] wouldn't let other people help me you

[00:30:50] know I was trying to do this on my own

[00:30:53] and so recovery was never intended for

[00:30:57] a single person you know it has to be

[00:31:00] part of outdone through community

[00:31:04] so we've heard that saying before in

[00:31:06] Sarah you may have to help me

[00:31:08] because it's been a while since I've said

[00:31:10] it but recovery is not the absence of

[00:31:13] substance it's the presence of community

[00:31:16] is that yes is that the essence of that

[00:31:19] so yes we need other people to help us

[00:31:22] with that we need other people in general

[00:31:24] don't we we need each other we were

[00:31:27] made for community we've only got a

[00:31:30] little bit of time left and I would

[00:31:31] be remiss with not going down memory

[00:31:34] lane just a little bit it's so hard

[00:31:37] to contain all the miracles that we've

[00:31:40] seen God perform through safe harbor and

[00:31:43] I'm just going to share a couple and it

[00:31:45] might trigger some that you girls want

[00:31:47] to jump in but I remember when I first

[00:31:50] came to safe harbor as on staff as

[00:31:54] executive director I received a call

[00:31:57] and the call was from a wonderful

[00:31:59] partner fleet feet here in town

[00:32:02] and they said ask what we were doing

[00:32:04] that heard about safe harbor and

[00:32:05] they said we would like to donate

[00:32:07] running shoes to all the women in your

[00:32:10] program and I was thrilled I could not

[00:32:11] wait to tell them and shortly after

[00:32:14] that there were two women of in the

[00:32:16] program that came into my office

[00:32:18] and I told them and they were their eyes

[00:32:21] got really big and they were like

[00:32:24] we were just praying at our house

[00:32:26] meeting for running shoes the why had

[00:32:30] just formed a collaboration to let

[00:32:33] them come to the why and and they

[00:32:35] didn't have any running shoes or any

[00:32:37] tennis shoes and that was the first like

[00:32:41] I wrote it down it was like okay I'm

[00:32:43] ready for more because I would hear

[00:32:44] Debbie tell all these miracles

[00:32:47] before I came on staff anything that

[00:32:50] you guys as a highlight that you want

[00:32:52] to share in your tenure with safe

[00:32:54] harbor

[00:32:57] well I'll just say I guess one of the

[00:32:59] biggest ones there were lots of small

[00:33:01] ones and sometimes those small ones are

[00:33:04] just what you need to get through the

[00:33:05] day you know just to remind you that

[00:33:07] yes it's God's still in control he's

[00:33:10] still providing but one of the biggest

[00:33:13] ones was in 2010 the end of 2010

[00:33:18] somewhere around December I was having

[00:33:22] lunch and was in the front office and

[00:33:24] answered the phone and it was a

[00:33:27] gentleman saying you don't know me

[00:33:30] and I don't know you but we have some

[00:33:32] apartments that we'd like to donate to

[00:33:34] safe harbor and I just remember just

[00:33:37] about dropping my lunch and saying would

[00:33:39] you repeat what you just said and you

[00:33:41] laughed and said yes I did say donate

[00:33:44] but you need to wait and see the

[00:33:46] apartments before you get too excited

[00:33:48] about it and those of course have

[00:33:50] become so central to the programming

[00:33:54] at safe harbor it was such a gift

[00:33:58] and we had just talked about needing

[00:34:00] apartments at the foley vent in November

[00:34:03] and so this happened just shortly after

[00:34:05] that so that's a big highlight in my mind

[00:34:09] and if you remember right before that

[00:34:11] we had uh there were two houses that

[00:34:14] are on that were on the property where

[00:34:15] our new building is right now and some

[00:34:18] donors said why don't we buy raise the

[00:34:20] money to buy those and turn them into

[00:34:22] transitional housing which is what our

[00:34:24] apartment ended up being we were so

[00:34:26] excited I remember sitting at a table at

[00:34:29] that time I was a volunteer and praying

[00:34:31] over that we thought we heard God right

[00:34:33] and we bought those two houses and then

[00:34:36] the city condemned them and we had to

[00:34:39] raise another ten thousand dollars to

[00:34:41] have them torn down and we were sitting

[00:34:44] there with that property and so when I

[00:34:46] took the role as executive director I

[00:34:48] went to a gentleman that was really

[00:34:51] instrumental in buying that land and

[00:34:53] donating it later for our building

[00:34:56] and I said don't you think we should sell

[00:34:59] this property we're having to keep the

[00:35:01] the lawnmow we're having to pay taxes

[00:35:03] because we weren't using it for program

[00:35:05] and he said well do you not ever want

[00:35:06] to build another building I'm thinking

[00:35:09] have you seen our bank account you know

[00:35:12] and but that's exactly we did hear God

[00:35:15] right we were supposed to buy those

[00:35:18] and so they sat right in the middle of

[00:35:20] the property we have now and I

[00:35:22] believe that that made those properties

[00:35:26] landlocked and so it was easy to acquire

[00:35:29] the rest of the property that we knew

[00:35:31] that we needed for that beautiful

[00:35:33] building that sits on that property now

[00:35:36] and Sarah before we close is there

[00:35:38] anything that you wanted to share?

[00:35:40] A particular situation with one of the

[00:35:44] ladies I just remember it impacted me

[00:35:47] greatly because I am a just seeker and

[00:35:50] I'm an advocate and so when I feel like

[00:35:53] there's a sense of injustice going on

[00:35:55] it really affects me and so this

[00:35:57] particular participant came in and she

[00:35:59] had not had any contact with her children

[00:36:01] in two years and you know her part of

[00:36:06] the reason like her ex-husband he was

[00:36:08] very wise in the ways of you know

[00:36:11] legalities of things and really had

[00:36:13] so many things tied up legally that

[00:36:15] were beyond her control and just

[00:36:17] observing her go month after month

[00:36:20] without seeing her children getting

[00:36:22] depositions in the mail I mean this was

[00:36:24] a nightmare I mean this was it was cruel

[00:36:27] and it just broke my heart and we would

[00:36:29] appear in court and we would have no

[00:36:31] success and you know she with a year

[00:36:34] long program you know it was just

[00:36:36] very a struggle for her but in our

[00:36:38] house meetings you had mentioned that

[00:36:39] God shows up in our house meetings

[00:36:41] and I'll never forget this

[00:36:43] we were sitting in our house meetings

[00:36:45] and typically we go through a curriculum

[00:36:47] there's just randomly assigned

[00:36:49] reading and so we just go through the

[00:36:51] room and we read scripture

[00:36:53] there's no rhyme or reason to it we

[00:36:55] just process it and no kidding I'm

[00:36:58] fairly certain that the verse was

[00:37:00] second chronicles 2017

[00:37:02] we were all doing a reading and this

[00:37:04] just happened to be what she read and

[00:37:06] it says but you will not even need to

[00:37:08] fight

[00:37:09] take your positions then stand still

[00:37:11] and watch the Lord's victory and I'm

[00:37:14] telling you

[00:37:15] there was silence in the room and we

[00:37:17] were all astounded

[00:37:18] and just what happened because

[00:37:21] God showed that he how intentional he

[00:37:23] is

[00:37:24] with those ladies and I'd love to tell

[00:37:26] you that the next day that that lady

[00:37:30] saw her children and that wasn't the

[00:37:31] case but a few years later

[00:37:34] she kept she kept on

[00:37:36] having faith in the Lord about that

[00:37:38] what he said that he would do for her

[00:37:40] and I'll never forget it it was on a

[00:37:41] mother it was on Mother's Day

[00:37:43] I got a random text from her

[00:37:46] of her in a picture with her children

[00:37:47] and I just sobbed yeah

[00:37:51] I was walking my neighborhood with my

[00:37:53] dog and this is a true story I turned

[00:37:55] the corner and there was the clearest

[00:37:57] most beautiful rainbow it was so

[00:38:00] beautiful that I took off running to my

[00:38:02] house to get my phone and I wanted to

[00:38:04] go back and get a picture and by the

[00:38:05] time I went back it was gone

[00:38:08] but God

[00:38:09] I believe that he had that rainbow just

[00:38:11] for me to see

[00:38:13] I will fight the battles for these

[00:38:15] women I will go before these ladies

[00:38:17] and I will do things that will blow

[00:38:19] your mind and he has

[00:38:21] we don't have enough time to talk about

[00:38:23] the things that I have seen

[00:38:24] the miracles happen in the courtroom

[00:38:27] families that are restored

[00:38:28] things that I have said yeah I don't

[00:38:30] think that's gonna work out

[00:38:32] and it does yeah

[00:38:34] and it's just amazing this is so true

[00:38:36] we could have named the podcast

[00:38:38] shining the light on miracles

[00:38:40] and just every episode talk about

[00:38:43] miracles for sure

[00:38:44] I wish we did have time to talk about

[00:38:47] more Debbie I just want to end by

[00:38:49] thanking you from the bottom of my heart

[00:38:52] for being obedient to the call that

[00:38:55] God placed on your life

[00:38:56] and many people may not know

[00:38:58] that you now are a certified

[00:39:00] spiritual director

[00:39:02] you have your own business called

[00:39:03] Grace for Days

[00:39:05] and we're blessed at Safe Harbor

[00:39:07] to contract with you

[00:39:09] to do spiritual direction with our

[00:39:11] staff

[00:39:12] you also offer counseling through Grace

[00:39:15] Life

[00:39:15] and I just want people to know that

[00:39:18] you are a resource that can show

[00:39:21] so much grace and help women and men

[00:39:25] through anything that they're facing

[00:39:27] but especially

[00:39:29] and learning to hear from God

[00:39:31] and walking in the purposes

[00:39:33] that God has destined them

[00:39:35] so Sarah and I are grateful to follow

[00:39:38] in your footsteps

[00:39:39] you left some big ones

[00:39:42] but with God he has made it all possible

[00:39:45] last words from you about where Safe Harbor is now

[00:39:50] very exciting

[00:39:51] you know I think about

[00:39:53] the array of services that are available

[00:39:56] to women now through Safe Harbor

[00:39:58] it's just amazing

[00:40:00] you know I feel like there

[00:40:02] you are reaching such a diverse group

[00:40:05] the culture has changed

[00:40:06] and Safe Harbor is changing to meet that

[00:40:10] diverse culture but yet

[00:40:12] staying true to the foundations of Christ at the center

[00:40:16] and the core values that Safe Harbor has always embraced

[00:40:20] so I feel very confident

[00:40:24] in the leadership of Safe Harbor

[00:40:26] I feel very hopeful for the future of Safe Harbor

[00:40:30] and just it just makes me smile

[00:40:33] to see how things are going right now

[00:40:36] so thank you for the opportunity to be here today

[00:40:39] and thank you guys for joining us

[00:40:42] on this episode of Shining the Light

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