RedPubPod #036 Every Serious Writer Needs to be Reading Craft of Writing Books Every Day! with Rhonda Browning

[00:00:01] This is RedPubPod, RedPubPod, RedPubPod, a podcast from RedHawk Publications.

[00:00:13] Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening out there in podcast land. You're listening to RedPubPod.

[00:00:19] I'm here today with our terrific and absolute acquisitions editor, Patty Thompson.

[00:00:24] Listen, manuscripts don't get in the door if Patty don't let them in the door, so always be nice to Patty.

[00:00:30] I'm Robert Knipe. I'm the guy that does everything nobody else wants to do around here,

[00:00:34] and today we are here with a published writer, but as yet published by us.

[00:00:39] Usually when we do our podcast, it's a book that's published, and you can go to the website and buy it,

[00:00:44] but this one you can't even pre-order yet because we are doing some marketing work on this book.

[00:00:50] It's called Filling the Big Empty. So let's welcome Rhonda Browning-White. Welcome.

[00:00:59] Thank you.

[00:00:59] Welcome, Rhonda. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:03] Good. I'm glad you're happy to be here because we're happy to have you.

[00:01:08] So out there in podcast land, thanks for joining us. Patty, where do you want to start?

[00:01:12] Well, you know what? Rhonda's got a really interesting backstory,

[00:01:16] a very interesting backstory in terms of how she ended up here in North Carolina.

[00:01:20] So if you don't mind, yeah, we could read the bio, but that's boring.

[00:01:24] Want to give us a little short story on where you're from and how you ended up in North Carolina.

[00:01:30] How you ended up in Hickory, North Carolina, of all places.

[00:01:33] Hickory, right. So, well, actually, I am from North Carolina at one point.

[00:01:37] I grew up in West Virginia, and then I moved to North Carolina around the age of 19,

[00:01:44] lived here in Greensboro and High Point for about 13 or 14 years, then went back to West Virginia.

[00:01:51] My husband had a job in West Virginia with Mountain State University,

[00:01:56] which is where he met this wonderful person named Patty Thompson back in the day.

[00:02:01] And anyway, we were transferred to Florida at Mountain State University,

[00:02:06] and we were down there for 17 years and had our fill of hurricanes and insurance related to hurricanes

[00:02:14] and that such, as everyone now in North Carolina understands on an all-too-clear level.

[00:02:20] So we wanted to move back up the mountains.

[00:02:23] Plus, we needed to be closer to our families.

[00:02:26] And so my family is still in West Virginia.

[00:02:28] He has family in Tennessee.

[00:02:29] We split the distance in Hickory, North Carolina.

[00:02:32] That makes sense.

[00:02:33] And I am thrilled to be here.

[00:02:34] I love this town.

[00:02:35] I really do.

[00:02:36] I can't say enough good things about Hickory and Catawba County and the general vicinity.

[00:02:40] It's just beautiful here and such nice people.

[00:02:43] I bet you were really worried when these hurricanes started following you up here to the mountains.

[00:02:47] I felt there like I had a magnet attached to me.

[00:02:51] I just brought them with me.

[00:02:53] So for those of you who aren't from the state of North Carolina,

[00:02:56] Western North Carolina was just devastated with Hurricane Helene lately.

[00:03:00] And we've had tornadoes on the tops of mountains and floods and things like that, like they're used to.

[00:03:06] And like you say, Florida.

[00:03:09] But not so much here.

[00:03:11] And I will say, having lived in Florida myself and moved here, in the 17 or 18 years I've lived here,

[00:03:16] this was the biggest one we've had.

[00:03:18] So welcome to North Carolina.

[00:03:21] Thank you.

[00:03:21] I'll do my best to keep them away if I have any.

[00:03:24] Please do.

[00:03:24] I don't think I have any ability, but I wish I did.

[00:03:28] And if you don't mind also, in addition to your background geographically,

[00:03:32] let us know a little bit about your writing journey.

[00:03:35] Because you are an established published author.

[00:03:39] And I think for folks out there that might not be as familiar with published authors,

[00:03:45] a lot of times many of our authors have, it's their first time when they come with us.

[00:03:50] Let us know a little bit about your journey in writing and your previous book,

[00:03:54] The Lightness of Water and Other Stories, which is a fabulous short story collection, I might add.

[00:04:00] Thank you.

[00:04:00] I appreciate that.

[00:04:01] Yeah, I've done a lot of writing of short stories and poetry

[00:04:05] and had a lot of that published in some well-respected literary magazines.

[00:04:09] So I'm very blessed to have had that kind of favor on my life.

[00:04:13] And I worked hard to get to this point.

[00:04:16] I'm still working hard, and I'm going to keep on pounding.

[00:04:19] But yeah, The Lightness of Water and Other Stories came out in 2019.

[00:04:23] It won the Short Fiction Award for, let's see, how should I say this?

[00:04:29] Press 53 Short Fiction Award in 2019.

[00:04:33] And it's received a couple of other awards since then.

[00:04:36] Some of the short stories in that collection received a couple of awards.

[00:04:40] So, you know, it's been really nice to have that recognition.

[00:04:43] And I took two of those stories from The Lightness of Water,

[00:04:46] which was the first story in the collection and the last story in the collection.

[00:04:51] Those were written by two different points of view of a couple,

[00:04:55] Romy and Jasper Grodin.

[00:04:58] And those two characters just stuck with me.

[00:05:01] They wouldn't leave me alone.

[00:05:02] Over the course of the next four years or so,

[00:05:05] I kept thinking about them and jotting down things that they might have said

[00:05:09] had they continued their story.

[00:05:10] So I wrote that down and created a novel, which is now Filling the Big Empty.

[00:05:15] Great.

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:16] So the short story book is available from Press 53?

[00:05:20] Correct.

[00:05:20] In Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

[00:05:21] Press 53 out of Winston-Salem.

[00:05:23] So folks out there in podcast land, set your browsers to Press 53

[00:05:27] and your search engines and see if you can pick that up.

[00:05:30] Probably available at Amazon as well.

[00:05:32] It is.

[00:05:33] It is.

[00:05:34] So pick that up.

[00:05:35] That'll give you some short stories and some kind of preface to

[00:05:37] some of the situations and characters that's in the upcoming Filling the Big Empty.

[00:05:42] And in addition to being an established author,

[00:05:46] and of course this being your first novel,

[00:05:49] you are also our writer workshop instructor.

[00:05:53] You've got an interesting background in that

[00:05:56] not only are you teaching writing for adults here at Catawba Valley Community College

[00:06:04] for Red Hawk Publications,

[00:06:06] but you're also a student still yourself.

[00:06:09] I mean, you attend workshops.

[00:06:10] You also lead workshops.

[00:06:12] Correct.

[00:06:13] You've got your graduate degree.

[00:06:14] You've got an MFA, creative writing.

[00:06:16] Could you share with us a little bit about your journey in learning the craft of writing?

[00:06:22] I don't think it ever ends, Patty.

[00:06:24] I mean, really, if you're wanting to be a good author,

[00:06:27] you're going to be learning from other authors and from your readers.

[00:06:32] I learn as much from my readers and my students as I do a good craft of writing book.

[00:06:36] That's why I love teaching, and I'm so pleased to be here teaching

[00:06:40] through Red Hawk Publications at CVCC, teaching adults in creative writing.

[00:06:45] They ask some very pointed, very difficult questions sometimes,

[00:06:48] which puts me back to the research end of things,

[00:06:51] and I love falling down that.

[00:06:52] I'm at Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole of research,

[00:06:56] and I learn as I go.

[00:06:59] So they keep me sharp,

[00:07:00] and I feel like every serious writer needs to be reading craft of writing books.

[00:07:06] They really do.

[00:07:07] You know, we can always improve.

[00:07:09] Just like with, I work in health care as well,

[00:07:12] and our doctors are continually studying,

[00:07:15] and they're continually going back to school,

[00:07:17] and that's what I feel like I need to do as a writer.

[00:07:19] I need to continue the study of the craft.

[00:07:21] That's one of the reasons why I became a college professor,

[00:07:23] is because you get to be a professional student.

[00:07:26] Exactly.

[00:07:27] You get to learn all the time.

[00:07:30] That's right.

[00:07:31] What are some of your major influences?

[00:07:32] Who are some of the authors that you like to read?

[00:07:34] Oh, well, I love Appalachian authors, of course,

[00:07:37] and Southern authors.

[00:07:38] Those are my favorites.

[00:07:38] I'll read anything.

[00:07:39] I'll read a cereal box, Robert.

[00:07:41] It doesn't matter if it's got words on it.

[00:07:42] I'm going to read it.

[00:07:43] But I love Lee Smith.

[00:07:45] I love Bonnie Jo Campbell.

[00:07:47] Ron Rash.

[00:07:48] I can't say enough good things about him.

[00:07:49] He's another amazing North Carolina author

[00:07:51] who was just inducted into, what is it, the North Carolina?

[00:07:55] Hall of Fame.

[00:07:56] Yeah.

[00:07:56] Hall of Literary Fame by the North Carolina Writers Network.

[00:07:59] There you go.

[00:07:59] Right.

[00:08:00] I mean, that was a really nice award there.

[00:08:02] Well-deserved, too.

[00:08:04] Even the older writers no longer with us,

[00:08:08] Ernest Hemingway, Flannery O'Connor,

[00:08:10] I dig deep into those because they have such fabulous examples

[00:08:14] for modern-day writers.

[00:08:15] And a lot of their subject matter is pertinent still today.

[00:08:18] And I think that's what makes a really good story

[00:08:21] is if you can write not so much about, you know,

[00:08:24] the times that you're in, which is also important,

[00:08:27] but those things that affect the human condition,

[00:08:30] you know, love, loss, greed, guilt,

[00:08:31] all those things that we each experience in our own emotions.

[00:08:35] If you can tap into that in your writing,

[00:08:38] then you can, you know,

[00:08:40] your readers are going to resonate with that.

[00:08:42] They're going to feel what you're writing,

[00:08:43] and then they'll like your work.

[00:08:45] I've got a question, and I know, Robert,

[00:08:47] you're so much more read than I am.

[00:08:51] Excuse me.

[00:08:53] Going from short story to a novel,

[00:08:56] and this is your first novel,

[00:08:59] what was the biggest challenge?

[00:09:03] What helped you do this?

[00:09:05] Because I'm sure it's not as easy to go from a short story to a novel.

[00:09:10] They're two different beasts.

[00:09:12] They're two different beasts.

[00:09:13] They really are.

[00:09:14] It's not just taking a short story and expanding it.

[00:09:18] A novel takes more than that.

[00:09:20] Yeah, honestly, I think it's easier to write a novel than a short story,

[00:09:23] even though it takes a lot more time to write a novel,

[00:09:26] and even though if you have a short story that fails,

[00:09:28] it's easier to rip up 25 pages than it is 325 pages,

[00:09:33] but at the same time,

[00:09:34] you've got a lot more time to expand your thoughts

[00:09:37] and, you know, make things happen.

[00:09:39] In a novel, you can lay some groundwork.

[00:09:41] You can kind of stretch your legs, so to speak,

[00:09:43] but in a short story, it's got to be tight and right.

[00:09:47] I mean, you really have to compress everything into smaller space,

[00:09:52] but also you've still got to get that beginning, middle, end,

[00:09:55] the satisfaction for the tying up everything with a big bow at the end,

[00:10:01] you know, kind of sensation that you need in a novel.

[00:10:05] You've got to compress that in a short story.

[00:10:07] And even harder, I'm starting to play around with flash fiction,

[00:10:10] which you would think would be super simple.

[00:10:13] Would you make sure you define what flash fiction is?

[00:10:18] Because there's folks that might not know what it is,

[00:10:20] but I'm fascinated by it.

[00:10:22] Me too.

[00:10:22] I'm fascinated with how difficult it is to write it,

[00:10:25] and I'm learning to be intimidated by it a little bit,

[00:10:28] but I'm not going to be stopped.

[00:10:29] I'm going to keep going.

[00:10:30] Flash fiction is usually, depending on the journal you're writing for,

[00:10:33] one or two pages.

[00:10:35] You know, some people will call flash fiction, you know, 250 words,

[00:10:39] and some will say that they'll accept 1,000 words or less.

[00:10:42] So it really depends.

[00:10:43] But there's microfiction that might be, you know, a page or a paragraph.

[00:10:48] I've seen contests for 25-word stories.

[00:10:52] Press 53 does a 53-word story every month that they publish on their website.

[00:10:58] And it's real interesting to try to fit something into 53 words

[00:11:02] and have it be a concise story.

[00:11:04] But if you think about it, we tell those stories every day in our life, right?

[00:11:07] We sit around in a coffee shop like Tasteful Beans,

[00:11:10] and we tell stories, right?

[00:11:12] That's what we do.

[00:11:13] And that can be a 53-word story if it's concise and well-written.

[00:11:18] But flash fiction still needs that beginning, middle, end.

[00:11:22] And that's kind of tough to do, especially if you ramble like I do.

[00:11:26] There's an apocryphal story about a contest between Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald

[00:11:33] as to who could write the shortest story.

[00:11:35] And it is said that Hemingway won by, yes, baby shoes.

[00:11:43] For sale, baby shoes, never worn.

[00:11:46] Short story.

[00:11:47] What a heartbreaking short story.

[00:11:49] I mean, if that's not emotional, nothing is.

[00:11:51] And it's apocryphal.

[00:11:53] You know, a lot of people say that didn't happen and this, that, and the other thing.

[00:11:56] But I've taught flash fiction in my English classes,

[00:12:00] both in the writing classes and in the literature classes.

[00:12:04] And I'm fascinated at what some of these people can do with, you know, 100 words.

[00:12:12] There's one that I teach called Pairing Knife that is just full of resonance.

[00:12:18] And I teach it because of the things it doesn't say as well as what it does say.

[00:12:23] I ask the students all the time what the sex or the gender of the narrator is.

[00:12:30] And they'll say, a guy.

[00:12:32] And I'll go, but it never says in the story.

[00:12:35] He just talks about the woman I love.

[00:12:37] Or the narrator just talks about the woman I love.

[00:12:40] Never is he or she identified as to what gender they are.

[00:12:45] And that makes them say, wow, I've got to pay closer attention to what the story actually says.

[00:12:51] And that's what you're doing with flash fiction is you're really paring down everything.

[00:12:56] But you're also saying things by what you leave out.

[00:13:01] Exactly.

[00:13:02] You know, you're making commentary.

[00:13:04] Yeah, well-known author Robert Olmstead, Bob Olmstead, Robert Olmstead.

[00:13:09] He taught in our MFA program that you should never spell out everything, that you should talk about A and C in your story, but don't conjoin them.

[00:13:21] Let the reader do that.

[00:13:22] And I think that's important because that makes the reader a part of the story because they're putting, you know, what they know and what their experience is into the story as they read it.

[00:13:32] And they become a part of it.

[00:13:34] I think that's real important.

[00:13:35] Okay, now I'm just dying to talk about the book because you mentioned something that triggered when I read this.

[00:13:41] And just so folks out there know in terms of the process of writing a book and publishing a book, I tend to want to read the entire book that we publish towards the very end.

[00:13:53] Because I will be a final pair of eyes picking up things.

[00:13:58] Maybe if we've made some typos or graphic errors or something, I'll pick it up.

[00:14:02] But it's also an opportunity for me to read a book.

[00:14:05] And in the case of this, I have to be careful.

[00:14:08] I am not a professional proofreader.

[00:14:10] I'm a reader who tries to read carefully.

[00:14:12] So I will catch things.

[00:14:14] But let's make no pretence I'm not a professional at proofreading.

[00:14:19] As I read this, there was something that jumped out at me.

[00:14:23] And I remember just making a mental highlight.

[00:14:26] And I had a feeling, whoa, this is such an important sentence right here.

[00:14:30] I wonder if there's going to be, is this foreshadowing?

[00:14:35] And I think it was.

[00:14:37] And I'm very mindful not to give too much away.

[00:14:40] I was about to say spoiler alert.

[00:14:41] No, no, no.

[00:14:42] And I won't do that.

[00:14:44] Well, maybe I will.

[00:14:45] Spoiler alert.

[00:14:48] You may now fast forward through the podcast until we give you the tone.

[00:14:54] But I think as an author, you might enjoy the fact that I picked up on something early.

[00:15:00] And sure enough, I saw it throughout.

[00:15:03] One of your characters very early in the story says something about every man makes a choice.

[00:15:10] You know, we all have choices.

[00:15:12] And I'm thinking, hmm, that's a heavy thing to say.

[00:15:14] And then in the middle of the book, you've got another character that questions,

[00:15:19] did I have a choice?

[00:15:21] Did I not have a choice?

[00:15:22] I don't know.

[00:15:23] And then at the very end of the book, there's another character that basically says,

[00:15:29] eh, it's predestined.

[00:15:30] You know, there are no choices.

[00:15:32] Everything, everything, a spiritual being knows what everything's going to happen to us.

[00:15:37] And so it was kind of a theme that resonated with me.

[00:15:43] And was that intentional?

[00:15:45] And that's what you can do in a novel that is harder to do in a short story.

[00:15:50] Right there in a cocoon is the answer.

[00:15:53] Absolutely.

[00:15:54] Yeah, I think the, I hope that the theme that's running through this on some level,

[00:15:59] and I don't think I really know the theme of a novel until I finish it,

[00:16:02] but I feel like the theme of this one, if I had to put it in a word, is grace.

[00:16:07] And I feel like my characters, each of them, just like each of us,

[00:16:12] has the opportunity to accept the grace that's given to us or to refuse it.

[00:16:16] And my characters have choices just like we do.

[00:16:19] And let me tell you, they make some bad choices in this novel.

[00:16:23] You know, they don't always make the best choices, just like in real life.

[00:16:26] We don't always make the best choices.

[00:16:28] But we still have that opportunity to accept grace.

[00:16:31] And I feel like that's God's grace.

[00:16:33] That's my personal belief.

[00:16:34] And, you know, my characters don't always align with my personal beliefs because they're fictional characters.

[00:16:39] Just like people that I meet on the street don't always align with my personal beliefs.

[00:16:43] And that's a okay.

[00:16:45] You know, that's where we're all different.

[00:16:46] And we all come from different backgrounds and sexes and races and cultures.

[00:16:53] And, you know, I don't try to put, to make those in my characters.

[00:16:58] I don't try to make them mine.

[00:16:59] I try to let them be my fictional characters' beliefs.

[00:17:02] But I do hope that grace runs through this story.

[00:17:05] And I know the character you're talking about.

[00:17:08] And it's okay to say her name is Missy.

[00:17:10] You know, there are multiple characters in here.

[00:17:12] But Missy is one of the secondary characters, actually.

[00:17:15] And she's had a lot that's happened to her.

[00:17:17] And she has the opportunity to make a right choice or a wrong choice.

[00:17:21] And I feel like she accepted that grace.

[00:17:24] I feel like she accepted God's grace on her life.

[00:17:26] But she still made a bad choice afterward.

[00:17:29] And that's what we do, you know, as Christians.

[00:17:32] People, Christians make mistakes all the time, y'all.

[00:17:35] You know, I'm a shining example of that.

[00:17:37] But we do have God's grace on our life.

[00:17:39] And does God know ahead of time that we're going to screw up?

[00:17:43] I think he does.

[00:17:44] You know, he created us.

[00:17:46] He knows we're going to make those mistakes.

[00:17:47] And he loved us anyway.

[00:17:49] And that's the most amazing part.

[00:17:51] And I hope that shines through in the novel.

[00:17:53] Even though it's not what you would call a religious novel.

[00:17:55] I hope, right?

[00:17:56] No, as a matter of fact, I think I was texting you as I was reading your book.

[00:18:00] Because Aria by Cassidy Collins, who, that's another novel we did, but it was YA.

[00:18:07] I remember reading her YA novel and wanting to slap consistently her main character.

[00:18:13] Her main character was annoying as heck.

[00:18:15] But it's a teenager.

[00:18:16] I expect it, right?

[00:18:17] Sure.

[00:18:17] Bad choices.

[00:18:18] So as I'm reading this, I'm seeing the bad choices.

[00:18:21] And of course, I want to slap some of your characters, some more than others.

[00:18:26] But to be honest with you, I think I texted you.

[00:18:29] It's like, if it weren't for bad choices, we wouldn't have many books, would we?

[00:18:33] There wouldn't be any stories.

[00:18:35] There wouldn't be a Bible.

[00:18:36] I mean, the big bad choice made in the beginning if one wants to go there, right?

[00:18:40] You can't have redemption without mistakes.

[00:18:43] There you go.

[00:18:44] And the redemption story is what we're looking for.

[00:18:48] Hey, write that down.

[00:18:49] I'm going to use it in my notes.

[00:18:52] Yeah, you can't have redemption without mistakes.

[00:18:54] That's true.

[00:18:55] I mean...

[00:18:55] So it was fun to see how...

[00:18:58] And this is a young couple.

[00:19:00] For the most part, many of our characters here are quite young.

[00:19:03] But you do see them mature.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:05] And you do see them settling down.

[00:19:07] And you do see that, okay, you know what?

[00:19:10] This couple's going to be okay.

[00:19:12] Everything's...

[00:19:13] There's still...

[00:19:13] Maybe.

[00:19:14] Yeah, exactly.

[00:19:14] Maybe.

[00:19:15] They still live in West Virginia.

[00:19:16] Let's not take that out of the equation.

[00:19:18] But at the same time, they're a lot more settled.

[00:19:21] And I've seen maturity and growth in your characters.

[00:19:25] Good.

[00:19:25] I like that.

[00:19:26] Well, you know, somebody might be wondering what in the world this story's about,

[00:19:29] since we really haven't addressed what it's about.

[00:19:31] So this Filling the Big Empty is the story of a young married couple.

[00:19:36] And the story is told in alternating points of view from the wife, Romy Grodin,

[00:19:41] and her husband, Jasper Grodin.

[00:19:43] So by having those alternating chapters,

[00:19:46] we see their two opinions on things that are happening to them.

[00:19:50] And we also see how they sometimes misunderstand one another,

[00:19:54] which is what we do in real life, right?

[00:19:56] So I think that adds a level of conflict to the novel.

[00:19:59] You know, you might say one thing,

[00:20:01] and I perceive it totally different than the way you meant it.

[00:20:05] And that's the way we are in real life.

[00:20:07] But I think it really shows up in these fictional characters.

[00:20:11] And we see, you know, when one makes a bad choice,

[00:20:13] how it affects the other one,

[00:20:15] or how one, when they're hiding a secret from the other,

[00:20:18] you know, that plays out,

[00:20:20] and how that can create more misunderstandings down the road.

[00:20:23] So I think those things, you know,

[00:20:26] give this story a lot of forward momentum.

[00:20:29] And even though it's fictional,

[00:20:31] I think some of that is reflected in real life as well.

[00:20:34] But it's set in,

[00:20:35] starts out in coal mining country in West Virginia,

[00:20:38] and the couple moved to North Carolina.

[00:20:40] And they find out in North Carolina that there is all,

[00:20:45] trouble follows you wherever you go.

[00:20:47] You know, you can't run from it.

[00:20:49] And that was one of Romy's big things,

[00:20:51] is that she tended to pick up and run

[00:20:53] every time something bad happens to her.

[00:20:55] And you can't outrun trouble.

[00:20:57] You can't outrun your family.

[00:20:58] You can't outrun life.

[00:21:00] So it's everywhere we go.

[00:21:02] And Jasper learns that, you know,

[00:21:04] he was running somewhat from environmental destruction,

[00:21:08] but he found that in North Carolina as well.

[00:21:09] You know, when you're clearing land and that sort of thing,

[00:21:12] it affects everyone who lives on the land,

[00:21:15] people and animals.

[00:21:17] And then they moved back to West Virginia.

[00:21:20] They get work at a vineyard

[00:21:22] where they're feeling like they're growing grapes

[00:21:26] and, you know, producing something

[00:21:27] so they have something to show for their work.

[00:21:29] But then, you know, some trouble happens there as well.

[00:21:33] So, you know, it's, there's no,

[00:21:34] life is not an easy thing.

[00:21:36] And we all kind of have to pull together to get through it.

[00:21:39] And I feel like my characters learn that lesson as they go.

[00:21:42] And speaking about learning lessons,

[00:21:44] my goodness, you clearly did a lot of education

[00:21:48] to learn about the things you wrote about.

[00:21:51] Sure.

[00:21:51] Not just environmentally,

[00:21:52] not just the actual science of coal mining

[00:21:58] and stripping mines and mountain removal.

[00:22:03] And then you go to North Carolina

[00:22:05] and we learn about the killdozer,

[00:22:07] which is, you know,

[00:22:08] the beast that takes down a lot of trees

[00:22:11] and puts up tacky homes.

[00:22:13] And then you go to viticulture.

[00:22:16] You're learning about winemaking.

[00:22:18] Tell us a little bit about the research behind

[00:22:21] what you had to learn in order to write this

[00:22:24] and to become the authority that you are.

[00:22:26] Oh, authority is a big word.

[00:22:28] I don't know.

[00:22:29] Well, let's serve that.

[00:22:30] But yes.

[00:22:30] Well, the fact is,

[00:22:32] you can't just write and make stuff up.

[00:22:33] So if you're going to be a writer,

[00:22:35] and many of our listeners are aspiring writers,

[00:22:37] let them know about the research

[00:22:38] that goes into knowing enough

[00:22:40] to sound intelligent

[00:22:41] as you write about a subject

[00:22:42] that you might not know as much about.

[00:22:44] It's called authenticity.

[00:22:45] There you go.

[00:22:46] You know, if a writer owes the reader authenticity,

[00:22:49] if the writer is going to traipse into some realms

[00:22:53] that, you know,

[00:22:54] there might be people out there

[00:22:55] who know more about this than you.

[00:22:57] So you definitely want to not look dumb.

[00:23:00] So yeah, doing the research.

[00:23:02] It's important to do the research,

[00:23:04] you know, not just for authenticity,

[00:23:06] but also, like you said,

[00:23:08] you owe it to the reader.

[00:23:09] I can't recall the author.

[00:23:10] You might recall Robert,

[00:23:11] who wrote a story

[00:23:13] and he had a tractor in it

[00:23:15] and he talked about

[00:23:16] the John Deere's Red Belly.

[00:23:19] And everybody knows

[00:23:20] that's not,

[00:23:21] that's a farmall tractor.

[00:23:22] Yeah.

[00:23:23] John Deere is green and yellow

[00:23:24] and that stirred up a lot of trouble.

[00:23:26] Or maybe it was the other way around.

[00:23:27] He wrote about a farmall

[00:23:28] and called it green.

[00:23:28] I don't know.

[00:23:29] But yeah, that was,

[00:23:30] so you owe it to your reader

[00:23:32] to do the research.

[00:23:33] And I dove in.

[00:23:34] I grew up in West Virginia,

[00:23:36] so I knew a bit about coal mining.

[00:23:38] But I didn't know a lot

[00:23:39] about mountaintop removal.

[00:23:40] I grew up during underground coal mining.

[00:23:43] And mountaintop removal,

[00:23:44] oh my gosh,

[00:23:45] if you fly over the state

[00:23:46] of West Virginia or Kentucky,

[00:23:48] you'll be blown away

[00:23:49] by what you see.

[00:23:50] There's just lots of,

[00:23:51] I call them scabs.

[00:23:53] That's what it looks like.

[00:23:54] Yellow dirt.

[00:23:55] Yeah, it's devastation.

[00:23:55] And mountains don't grow back, y'all.

[00:23:57] Once they're gone, they're gone.

[00:23:59] So, you know,

[00:24:00] it causes a lot of trouble

[00:24:01] and they pump in chemicals

[00:24:03] to do what they call fracking,

[00:24:05] which is fracturing the coal

[00:24:06] so that you can scoop it up easier

[00:24:08] instead of having to dig it out.

[00:24:10] You can just scoop it right up

[00:24:11] and it makes things go a lot faster

[00:24:13] and we use a lot of electricity,

[00:24:14] all of us, myself included.

[00:24:16] You know, I love my power.

[00:24:18] Yeah, we're using it right now.

[00:24:20] Exactly, right?

[00:24:21] So we need that power.

[00:24:22] We want that power.

[00:24:23] And there are other ways to get it.

[00:24:25] And when I started looking into,

[00:24:27] okay, how can we overcome this?

[00:24:28] I started learning about wind power.

[00:24:31] Well, wind power has its downfalls too.

[00:24:33] Everything has its downfalls.

[00:24:34] But wind is renewable energy.

[00:24:37] And I did learn in my research

[00:24:39] and I kind of had a little bit of that in the novel,

[00:24:42] but not like an informational dump,

[00:24:44] which it's important not to do.

[00:24:46] Yeah, no info dumps.

[00:24:47] Right, no info dumps.

[00:24:48] You've got to sprinkle the info.

[00:24:50] I told my students, like, salt,

[00:24:52] sprinkle it throughout your story.

[00:24:54] Don't dump it all in one corner

[00:24:55] because that would ruin your casserole, right?

[00:24:57] And remember, you can always add more,

[00:24:59] but you can't take it out.

[00:25:01] I'll tell you exactly right.

[00:25:02] I don't know.

[00:25:03] I use my delete button an awful lot.

[00:25:06] So, but yeah.

[00:25:07] And so I did the research there.

[00:25:08] I talked to a gentleman who I acknowledged

[00:25:11] in my acknowledgements, Johnny Holcomb,

[00:25:13] who knows a lot about wind energy.

[00:25:15] And so he gave me information.

[00:25:17] And then, you know, when I wrote the story about the,

[00:25:20] I don't think it's a spoiler alert.

[00:25:21] I have a character who loses his leg

[00:25:24] and they try to reattach it.

[00:25:26] And so I spoke with an orthopedic surgeon.

[00:25:28] And, you know, people want to give you this information.

[00:25:32] Everyone likes to talk about what they do

[00:25:34] and share their knowledge with you.

[00:25:35] So I tell my students, don't hesitate.

[00:25:38] If you're writing a story set in a bakery,

[00:25:39] go to a bakery.

[00:25:40] Ask them, you know, if you can come behind the counter

[00:25:43] and see how the donuts are made, so to speak.

[00:25:46] You know, we need to learn these things

[00:25:48] before we write about them.

[00:25:49] That way we can write about them authentically,

[00:25:51] like you mentioned, Robert.

[00:25:52] And pay attention to the atmosphere

[00:25:53] and how it smells

[00:25:54] and the sounds that are going on in the bakery.

[00:25:57] And all of these things that help contribute

[00:25:59] to the reader being there

[00:26:01] when they're reading the book or story.

[00:26:05] Yeah.

[00:26:06] It makes it real.

[00:26:07] It comes real to them.

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:09] And speaking about Tasteful Beans...

[00:26:11] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:12] Our official sponsor of Red Pub Pod

[00:26:16] is Tasteful Beans Coffee House

[00:26:18] in downtown Hickory.

[00:26:19] Let's do a nod out to good old Scott Owens down there

[00:26:22] and go down to Tasteful Beans

[00:26:24] and get you a cup of Ethiopian coffee

[00:26:26] and some kind of scone or some kind of muffin.

[00:26:30] They got wonderful chicken salad there,

[00:26:33] wonderful tuna salad.

[00:26:35] Actually, Rhonda and I typically go there on Saturdays.

[00:26:38] What is it that you typically order?

[00:26:39] Ooh, the bagel.

[00:26:41] Yeah.

[00:26:41] Bagel.

[00:26:42] Lox and bagel.

[00:26:43] It's so good.

[00:26:44] And their coffee with a pumpkin cream,

[00:26:46] fresh pumpkin cream.

[00:26:47] Yeah.

[00:26:48] Oh, my God.

[00:26:49] That sounds good.

[00:26:50] It is delicious.

[00:26:51] Shall we call this off right now and head away?

[00:26:54] I was going to suggest to Patty

[00:26:56] that one day we take the whole podcast

[00:26:58] and go down to Tasteful Beans

[00:27:00] and do a podcast from the dining room there.

[00:27:04] So we could eat and drink

[00:27:06] and have people just come by, you know.

[00:27:10] Well, they've done live podcasts

[00:27:12] in front of audiences before,

[00:27:13] so maybe Scott might let us do that one evening.

[00:27:16] That could be kind of fun.

[00:27:17] We might want to think about doing that

[00:27:19] when Rhonda's book premieres.

[00:27:20] That would be a good thing.

[00:27:22] We could do a premiere podcast party.

[00:27:24] That would be good.

[00:27:25] Wouldn't that be neat?

[00:27:26] But you people out there in podcast land

[00:27:28] would love that.

[00:27:29] Just write us an email.

[00:27:30] Send us an email

[00:27:31] or like this podcast

[00:27:32] and subscribe

[00:27:34] and share it with your friends.

[00:27:36] All 12 of you.

[00:27:37] Yeah.

[00:27:40] By the way,

[00:27:41] I do want to talk about one of our authors

[00:27:44] and I know Stuart won't mind,

[00:27:46] but this is where editing comes in.

[00:27:48] Stuart Conley loves to be talked about.

[00:27:51] To Stuart, there's no bad publicity.

[00:27:53] Love you, Stuart.

[00:27:56] His memoir called Offered in Secret,

[00:27:59] which, by the way, is really good.

[00:28:01] It's one of my favorite memoirs.

[00:28:02] He did have an area

[00:28:04] when we got it as a rough draft,

[00:28:06] we had to remind him

[00:28:08] that it was missing some authenticity

[00:28:10] in that his book mentioned

[00:28:14] somewhere in there

[00:28:15] that his first beater car

[00:28:17] ran out of oil

[00:28:18] and he learned an important lesson

[00:28:21] to change his oil

[00:28:22] every 12,500 miles.

[00:28:24] And I was like,

[00:28:25] ooh.

[00:28:26] Yeah.

[00:28:26] No, no, no.

[00:28:28] As somebody whose car did freeze

[00:28:30] because I did run out of oil,

[00:28:31] I happen to know that.

[00:28:33] That's like...

[00:28:34] You couldn't even run

[00:28:34] one of those old 1960 things

[00:28:36] and 12,000 miles

[00:28:37] were out changing.

[00:28:38] Well, you could,

[00:28:39] but you'd be leaving

[00:28:40] a smoke trail

[00:28:41] everywhere you went

[00:28:41] around the county.

[00:28:42] I had a 70s Vega

[00:28:44] that used more oil than gas

[00:28:46] and it did run out of oil

[00:28:48] and the block froze.

[00:28:51] And so I knew for a fact

[00:28:52] that 12,500 is probably pressing it.

[00:28:55] So, you know,

[00:28:56] we let him know.

[00:28:57] He changed it accordingly.

[00:28:58] It's a good thing

[00:28:59] he didn't have other cars

[00:29:00] break down during the years.

[00:29:02] The devil's in the details.

[00:29:03] The devil's in the details.

[00:29:04] So again,

[00:29:05] I just want to commend you for...

[00:29:07] I knew that there was

[00:29:08] a lot of research

[00:29:08] that went on in there

[00:29:09] and it was good for me

[00:29:10] because I like to learn

[00:29:11] as I read.

[00:29:12] And mountaintop removal,

[00:29:15] as bad as I've always known it is,

[00:29:17] you painted a picture

[00:29:19] of what it must be like

[00:29:20] to live and have to work

[00:29:21] around that.

[00:29:27] experience them firsthand,

[00:29:29] you know,

[00:29:30] and we can do that

[00:29:31] sometimes through our

[00:29:32] fictional characters.

[00:29:33] You know,

[00:29:33] not everybody can travel

[00:29:35] across the world

[00:29:35] and visit all these

[00:29:37] different places

[00:29:37] and you can,

[00:29:38] sure enough,

[00:29:39] go to Wikipedia

[00:29:39] and look up the information

[00:29:41] about them.

[00:29:41] But unless you have someone

[00:29:43] show you the example

[00:29:44] of what it's like

[00:29:45] to live,

[00:29:46] breathe,

[00:29:47] experience that life,

[00:29:49] it's just not quite the same.

[00:29:51] I believe...

[00:29:51] Fiction allows us to do that.

[00:29:52] I believe that that's what

[00:29:54] drew me to read

[00:29:55] when I was a kid

[00:29:56] was,

[00:29:57] you know,

[00:29:59] growing up poor,

[00:30:00] you know,

[00:30:00] we didn't get to go on vacations,

[00:30:02] we didn't get to go places.

[00:30:04] And,

[00:30:04] you know,

[00:30:05] six or seven years old,

[00:30:07] you know,

[00:30:07] you get a comic book

[00:30:09] that is the comic book version

[00:30:11] of the Iliad

[00:30:12] and suddenly you're watching,

[00:30:15] you're reading about these

[00:30:17] people who lived

[00:30:18] thousands of years before

[00:30:20] and then suddenly

[00:30:21] you're introduced

[00:30:22] to different kind of books

[00:30:23] and you're in places

[00:30:24] that you will never go.

[00:30:26] You know,

[00:30:26] I have read about places

[00:30:27] that I will never be able to go.

[00:30:29] Other planets,

[00:30:32] cultures that aren't real,

[00:30:34] beings that aren't similar

[00:30:37] to humans

[00:30:38] because some author

[00:30:39] somewhere in his

[00:30:40] or her imagination

[00:30:41] was brilliant enough

[00:30:43] to make this so real.

[00:30:46] And I do the same thing

[00:30:47] with films.

[00:30:48] You know,

[00:30:49] I watch films

[00:30:50] that are made

[00:30:50] in other countries

[00:30:51] to where I can experience

[00:30:53] what it's like

[00:30:54] to be in that country,

[00:30:55] but I've never gone there

[00:30:57] and I probably never will.

[00:30:59] But a good writer,

[00:31:01] and this is for you guys

[00:31:03] out there

[00:31:03] who are wanting to write,

[00:31:04] we've touched on

[00:31:05] several things today.

[00:31:07] Authenticity,

[00:31:08] we've touched on resonance,

[00:31:09] you know,

[00:31:10] telling a redemption story,

[00:31:11] creating conflict

[00:31:13] for characters

[00:31:14] that they have to solve,

[00:31:15] creating suspense.

[00:31:17] Another thing is

[00:31:18] putting them in these places

[00:31:20] that become real to them,

[00:31:22] to where they feel like

[00:31:24] they've gone somewhere

[00:31:25] they could never go.

[00:31:26] And I think that's what

[00:31:28] drew me to literature

[00:31:29] all my life.

[00:31:30] And it's not lost on me,

[00:31:32] by the way,

[00:31:33] that your main characters

[00:31:34] followed the same trail

[00:31:35] that you and Randy did.

[00:31:36] You know,

[00:31:37] started in West Virginia,

[00:31:38] came to North Carolina,

[00:31:40] went back to West Virginia.

[00:31:41] I skipped the Florida part.

[00:31:43] Hey,

[00:31:43] that's part two.

[00:31:45] That's the next novel.

[00:31:46] That's because of the deer flies

[00:31:47] down there in Florida.

[00:31:49] Because nobody can,

[00:31:50] nobody can beat

[00:31:50] those deer flies down there.

[00:31:52] They start chomping on you

[00:31:53] and you've had it.

[00:31:54] You just,

[00:31:54] there's no redemption

[00:31:55] from that.

[00:31:56] to paraphrase,

[00:31:58] Kurt Wanaga,

[00:31:58] the palmetto bugs

[00:32:00] ate the last novel.

[00:32:03] That's,

[00:32:03] that's,

[00:32:05] ate the Florida chapters.

[00:32:06] Yeah,

[00:32:07] and the alligators

[00:32:08] and all the other things

[00:32:09] that are down there.

[00:32:10] I mean,

[00:32:11] I've just visited Florida

[00:32:12] and that was it for me.

[00:32:13] I'm like,

[00:32:14] this is a great place to visit

[00:32:15] but I would not want

[00:32:17] to live here.

[00:32:17] I love it.

[00:32:18] I love,

[00:32:18] I love West Virginia.

[00:32:20] I love North Carolina.

[00:32:21] I love South Carolina.

[00:32:22] All the places I've lived,

[00:32:23] I loved the experience

[00:32:24] of being there

[00:32:25] and there's so much good

[00:32:26] to say about each one

[00:32:27] of those states

[00:32:28] and again,

[00:32:29] just like Romy discovered,

[00:32:31] you can outrun trouble.

[00:32:32] You just have to,

[00:32:33] you know,

[00:32:34] handle it as it comes to you

[00:32:36] and it's going to follow you,

[00:32:37] I guess.

[00:32:38] I don't know that

[00:32:38] it really follows you.

[00:32:39] It's just that you go

[00:32:40] to fresh trouble.

[00:32:41] I think that's one

[00:32:42] of the most popular,

[00:32:43] one of the most popular

[00:32:44] conflicts in especially

[00:32:46] modern novels

[00:32:47] is characters that believe

[00:32:49] that a change

[00:32:49] of geographical location

[00:32:51] will oftentimes

[00:32:53] preclude them

[00:32:54] from having problems

[00:32:55] and it happens

[00:32:57] in real life.

[00:32:58] I had a friend years ago

[00:32:59] who just got sick

[00:33:01] of living around here,

[00:33:02] could not meet

[00:33:02] the right woman

[00:33:03] and I wanted to say,

[00:33:05] you're a drunk dude.

[00:33:07] You drink too much

[00:33:09] and you have a girlfriend

[00:33:10] for three weeks

[00:33:11] and then she starts

[00:33:12] looking at what it's going

[00:33:12] to be like to live

[00:33:13] with an alcoholic.

[00:33:15] So he gets mad

[00:33:16] and he moves to Texas

[00:33:17] and, you know,

[00:33:18] on his Facebook page

[00:33:19] one day suddenly

[00:33:20] he's in a relationship

[00:33:21] and I'm like going,

[00:33:23] ooh,

[00:33:23] he found him a girl.

[00:33:24] Three weeks later,

[00:33:25] it's complicated.

[00:33:28] It's a week

[00:33:29] and a half later,

[00:33:31] single,

[00:33:31] you know,

[00:33:32] and I'm texting him

[00:33:34] or talking to him

[00:33:35] on Messenger

[00:33:35] and he's going like,

[00:33:36] the girls out here

[00:33:37] are the exact same way.

[00:33:38] Oh gee,

[00:33:39] I wonder why.

[00:33:39] And I'm going like,

[00:33:40] dude,

[00:33:41] it's you.

[00:33:42] You need to hold

[00:33:43] that mirror up

[00:33:44] to yourself

[00:33:45] and look at who

[00:33:47] and what you really are

[00:33:48] and that's what

[00:33:49] these stories

[00:33:50] kind of remind us

[00:33:52] to do

[00:33:53] is that we ourselves

[00:33:55] can't run

[00:33:55] from that stuff.

[00:33:56] It's us.

[00:33:58] I've got a question

[00:33:59] to ask you

[00:34:01] about marketing

[00:34:02] and again,

[00:34:03] one of the reasons

[00:34:04] we love doing

[00:34:05] Red Pump Pod

[00:34:05] is in addition

[00:34:06] to sharing new books

[00:34:07] but also

[00:34:08] the process

[00:34:09] of book writing

[00:34:11] and book making

[00:34:12] and publishing

[00:34:13] and in this case,

[00:34:14] since this book

[00:34:15] will be out

[00:34:15] in a matter of weeks,

[00:34:18] what are your plans

[00:34:19] for marketing

[00:34:20] and do you have

[00:34:21] any events planned?

[00:34:23] Yeah,

[00:34:23] I have an event planned

[00:34:24] actually on November

[00:34:26] the 16th.

[00:34:27] That's on a Saturday

[00:34:27] at 3 o'clock

[00:34:29] at one of our favorite spots

[00:34:30] which is Old Hickory Station

[00:34:32] here in Hickory

[00:34:32] and that will be

[00:34:34] my launch party

[00:34:35] and it's open

[00:34:36] to the public.

[00:34:37] I hope to see

[00:34:38] lots of you there

[00:34:39] and I might even

[00:34:40] have some wine and cheese

[00:34:41] for you while you're there.

[00:34:42] So yeah,

[00:34:43] there will be refreshments

[00:34:44] and come because

[00:34:45] I'd love to tell you

[00:34:45] a story.

[00:34:46] I really would.

[00:34:47] I think that'll be fun

[00:34:48] and then in addition

[00:34:49] to that,

[00:34:49] I want to do some

[00:34:51] readings at a couple

[00:34:52] of local wineries

[00:34:53] around the area

[00:34:54] and at the libraries

[00:34:55] around the area

[00:34:56] and then I'm going

[00:34:57] to take the road

[00:34:58] on the show

[00:34:59] on the road

[00:35:00] so to speak

[00:35:00] and I'm going

[00:35:02] to visit some

[00:35:03] locations in West Virginia

[00:35:05] and in Florida

[00:35:06] I have planned out already

[00:35:08] and then hopefully

[00:35:09] South Carolina

[00:35:10] and Georgia

[00:35:11] en route.

[00:35:13] So yeah,

[00:35:13] there's lots of places

[00:35:15] to come

[00:35:15] and I hope you'll

[00:35:17] keep an eye

[00:35:17] on my Facebook page

[00:35:19] and on my blog

[00:35:20] at rondabrowningwhite.com

[00:35:21] and that way

[00:35:23] you can keep up

[00:35:24] with where I'll be

[00:35:24] and show up.

[00:35:25] I mean,

[00:35:25] you don't necessarily

[00:35:26] have to buy a book

[00:35:27] when you go to a reading.

[00:35:28] I know a lot of people

[00:35:29] think that if they

[00:35:30] come to a reading

[00:35:31] they're pressured

[00:35:31] into buying a book.

[00:35:33] Come and let me

[00:35:34] tell you a story

[00:35:34] like I said.

[00:35:35] Come and listen.

[00:35:36] Join in.

[00:35:37] Meet some people

[00:35:38] and, you know,

[00:35:39] there may or may not

[00:35:40] be refreshments

[00:35:41] depending on the location

[00:35:42] but come and have

[00:35:43] a good time

[00:35:44] and writers need readers

[00:35:46] and we're just as happy

[00:35:48] if you go to the library

[00:35:49] and pick up our book there

[00:35:50] or get it on

[00:35:51] interlibrary loan.

[00:35:53] I mean,

[00:35:53] the librarians

[00:35:53] need something to do

[00:35:54] so have them get the book

[00:35:56] through interlibrary loan

[00:35:58] and, yes,

[00:35:59] I'd love to sell you

[00:36:00] a signed copy

[00:36:01] by two

[00:36:02] because someone

[00:36:02] you got to give them

[00:36:03] a gift for Christmas,

[00:36:04] right?

[00:36:05] So go ahead

[00:36:05] and pick up two

[00:36:06] or three

[00:36:06] while you're there

[00:36:07] but, yeah,

[00:36:08] I mean,

[00:36:09] it's just come

[00:36:10] and enjoy

[00:36:10] and I've had students

[00:36:12] ask me, you know,

[00:36:13] what's it like

[00:36:13] to go to a reading

[00:36:14] which shocks me.

[00:36:15] I just guess I assume

[00:36:17] that creative writing

[00:36:17] students would have

[00:36:19] already been to readings

[00:36:20] but not always

[00:36:21] so it's new to them.

[00:36:23] It's a very casual atmosphere.

[00:36:25] You don't need to rent

[00:36:27] a ball gown or a tux

[00:36:28] to come to a reading.

[00:36:29] You can wear your PJs.

[00:36:30] I'm not going to judge,

[00:36:31] you know,

[00:36:31] just show up

[00:36:32] and support us

[00:36:33] and, you know,

[00:36:34] listen and enjoy

[00:36:36] your time there.

[00:36:36] That's what a reading

[00:36:38] is all about.

[00:36:38] It's just a lot of fun.

[00:36:40] That's good to know

[00:36:41] and I do realize

[00:36:43] that some people

[00:36:44] may listen to this podcast

[00:36:45] after November 16th

[00:36:47] which is why

[00:36:47] it's super important

[00:36:48] to check out

[00:36:50] Rhonda's Facebook

[00:36:50] and website information

[00:36:52] which, by the way,

[00:36:53] will be in the description

[00:36:55] of this pod.

[00:36:56] Yes, we will mirror it

[00:36:57] on our site

[00:36:58] and, you know,

[00:36:58] our Facebook page

[00:36:59] and stuff like that as well.

[00:37:01] But you're absolutely right

[00:37:02] about readings.

[00:37:03] Readings are really

[00:37:05] the most fun

[00:37:07] when lots of people

[00:37:08] attend

[00:37:09] and you don't have

[00:37:10] to buy anything.

[00:37:11] You don't have

[00:37:12] to do anything.

[00:37:12] Just be a person

[00:37:13] sitting in a chair

[00:37:13] paying attention

[00:37:14] and listening

[00:37:15] and asking a question

[00:37:16] if you have one.

[00:37:17] Especially if you're

[00:37:18] a writer

[00:37:19] because right there

[00:37:20] you've got

[00:37:21] a professional writer

[00:37:22] in front of you

[00:37:23] that you can ask

[00:37:24] any question

[00:37:25] you'd like to ask

[00:37:25] and it goes beyond that

[00:37:27] where do you get

[00:37:27] your ideas

[00:37:28] type questions

[00:37:29] but, you know,

[00:37:30] why do you write

[00:37:31] in a particular voice?

[00:37:32] Like, one of my questions

[00:37:33] is, as you said

[00:37:34] that the writing style

[00:37:36] in this book

[00:37:36] is through two

[00:37:37] different points of view

[00:37:38] you go back and forth

[00:37:40] between the male

[00:37:41] and the female

[00:37:42] the married couple.

[00:37:44] In your past

[00:37:45] writing your short stories

[00:37:46] and things

[00:37:46] have you ever tried

[00:37:48] to use first person?

[00:37:49] Do you like to use

[00:37:51] one person's point of view

[00:37:53] throughout?

[00:37:55] I like first person

[00:37:57] because I feel

[00:37:57] it's very intimate

[00:37:58] for the reader

[00:37:59] to get to know

[00:38:00] the character

[00:38:01] but I also enjoy

[00:38:03] third person.

[00:38:03] I've written quite a few

[00:38:04] and my short story

[00:38:05] collection is across

[00:38:06] the board.

[00:38:07] I think the only thing

[00:38:08] I don't have in the

[00:38:09] collection is second person

[00:38:11] and second person

[00:38:12] is a little more

[00:38:12] difficult to write.

[00:38:14] Lori Moore does it

[00:38:15] incredibly well

[00:38:16] if you want to learn

[00:38:16] how to write

[00:38:17] in second person

[00:38:18] read Lori Moore

[00:38:19] her how-to series

[00:38:20] I forget the name

[00:38:21] of that

[00:38:21] Self Help

[00:38:22] I believe is the name

[00:38:24] of that fiction

[00:38:24] collection

[00:38:25] and it's wonderful

[00:38:26] and it's a lot

[00:38:27] of fun to read.

[00:38:28] Can you remind people

[00:38:29] what that second person

[00:38:30] is?

[00:38:30] You know, remind people

[00:38:31] like Patty

[00:38:33] Okay, Patty

[00:38:34] so second person

[00:38:35] is written toward you

[00:38:37] so instead of saying

[00:38:38] I went to the mall

[00:38:39] you go to the mall today

[00:38:41] you pick up a pair of shoes

[00:38:42] you see if they fit

[00:38:43] and of course they don't.

[00:38:45] That's really dramatic.

[00:38:46] It is more dramatic.

[00:38:47] I have read that before

[00:38:48] now you're reminding me

[00:38:49] of how like

[00:38:49] you feel like there's

[00:38:50] a sense of urgency

[00:38:51] when you read that.

[00:38:52] You do.

[00:38:53] I've written one story

[00:38:54] like that years ago

[00:38:55] and the only magazine

[00:38:57] to publish it

[00:38:58] was a little scary magazine

[00:39:00] out of England.

[00:39:01] They snatched it up

[00:39:02] and loved it

[00:39:03] and actually reprinted it

[00:39:04] in one of their

[00:39:06] anthologies

[00:39:06] but I could not get

[00:39:08] a domestic publisher

[00:39:11] because they go like

[00:39:11] can't you change this

[00:39:13] to first person

[00:39:13] or can't you make it third

[00:39:15] and I go like

[00:39:15] no, I'm playing

[00:39:17] with the third person

[00:39:18] because this guy's

[00:39:19] girlfriend was killed

[00:39:21] in a robbery

[00:39:22] in a steakhouse

[00:39:23] and he can't

[00:39:24] talk about it.

[00:39:26] He has to talk about it

[00:39:27] like he's somebody else.

[00:39:29] He has to look at it

[00:39:30] from outside himself

[00:39:31] and that's what

[00:39:31] the second person

[00:39:32] kind of does

[00:39:35] and the only ones

[00:39:36] that got it

[00:39:36] was these people

[00:39:38] with this little

[00:39:38] macabre press

[00:39:40] or something like that

[00:39:41] and they snatched it up

[00:39:42] but that's the only time

[00:39:43] I've tried that.

[00:39:44] It was hard.

[00:39:44] It was difficult.

[00:39:45] It's difficult to do.

[00:39:47] Yeah.

[00:39:47] And actually

[00:39:48] that's my student's assignment

[00:39:49] this week

[00:39:50] was to take a paragraph.

[00:39:52] We gave them the prompt

[00:39:54] that it's a party

[00:39:54] and they're going to

[00:39:56] have their character

[00:39:58] go to the party

[00:39:59] and they're going to

[00:40:00] write a paragraph

[00:40:00] in first person

[00:40:01] then write from

[00:40:03] a different character's

[00:40:04] perspective

[00:40:04] in second person

[00:40:06] and a different

[00:40:08] narrator's perspective

[00:40:09] in third person.

[00:40:10] Wow, that's awesome.

[00:40:10] So yeah,

[00:40:11] it's only a paragraph

[00:40:12] so it's just

[00:40:12] three little paragraphs

[00:40:14] but they can see

[00:40:15] the difference

[00:40:16] in the perspective

[00:40:18] of each of those

[00:40:19] points of view.

[00:40:20] I had a writing instructor

[00:40:22] one time have us

[00:40:23] rewrite Edgar Allen Post

[00:40:25] The Telltale Heart

[00:40:27] in third person

[00:40:28] and also from

[00:40:29] the point of view

[00:40:29] of the old man

[00:40:30] with the eye.

[00:40:33] So imagine the story

[00:40:35] being told from

[00:40:35] the point of view

[00:40:36] of the old man

[00:40:36] in the bed

[00:40:37] and he hears

[00:40:38] the door creaking

[00:40:39] and he sees the light

[00:40:40] come through the door

[00:40:42] so you're telling it

[00:40:43] from that point of view

[00:40:44] because what it is

[00:40:44] is it's an exercise

[00:40:45] in perspective

[00:40:48] trying to revision

[00:40:49] the story

[00:40:50] re-envision the story

[00:40:51] from another angle

[00:40:52] and it helps

[00:40:55] tune your chops

[00:40:56] because you're taking

[00:40:58] something that is

[00:40:58] very famous

[00:40:59] and very well done

[00:41:01] because Poe was

[00:41:02] you know

[00:41:02] Poe created

[00:41:03] the horror story

[00:41:04] as we know it

[00:41:05] way before anybody else.

[00:41:07] So that kind of stuff

[00:41:09] that's good

[00:41:09] I like that.

[00:41:10] Yeah, it's

[00:41:11] you know

[00:41:12] and I think

[00:41:13] if we're going to do

[00:41:14] a second

[00:41:16] class on creative writing

[00:41:17] or when one's done

[00:41:18] I think it would be

[00:41:19] a great idea

[00:41:19] to do

[00:41:20] a deeper dive

[00:41:21] into third person

[00:41:22] because you know

[00:41:23] we just say

[00:41:24] third person point of view

[00:41:25] but there are so

[00:41:26] many different points

[00:41:27] of view inside

[00:41:27] of third person

[00:41:28] when you do

[00:41:29] a classical omniscient

[00:41:30] or a deep point of view

[00:41:32] a close point of view

[00:41:33] some people call it

[00:41:34] in third person

[00:41:35] there's just so many

[00:41:36] different ways

[00:41:37] as

[00:41:38] I don't want to say

[00:41:39] as many different

[00:41:40] points of view

[00:41:41] as there are people

[00:41:41] but pretty darn close

[00:41:43] you know

[00:41:43] there are a lot

[00:41:44] of different points

[00:41:44] of view to write from.

[00:41:45] Who was the guy

[00:41:46] that wrote

[00:41:46] the Owen Meany

[00:41:48] John Irving

[00:41:50] John Irving

[00:41:52] is the most

[00:41:52] wonderful writer

[00:41:53] when it comes

[00:41:54] to third person

[00:41:55] omniscient

[00:41:56] this narrator

[00:41:58] who knows

[00:41:59] what's going on

[00:42:00] in everybody's head

[00:42:01] and you know

[00:42:03] you'll have

[00:42:03] five people together

[00:42:04] and whoever

[00:42:05] this narrator is

[00:42:06] will be inside

[00:42:07] of each person's

[00:42:08] head by turn

[00:42:09] you know

[00:42:10] you're like

[00:42:10] Tara couldn't stand

[00:42:12] how Rhonda

[00:42:14] sat there

[00:42:15] you know

[00:42:15] but Rhonda

[00:42:17] thought that Tara

[00:42:18] was probably

[00:42:19] the worst

[00:42:19] dressed at the table

[00:42:20] and you'd go

[00:42:20] like whoa

[00:42:21] and I mean

[00:42:22] he is

[00:42:23] wonderful at it

[00:42:25] and he's been known

[00:42:26] to write a book

[00:42:27] and then just

[00:42:28] rewrite the whole thing

[00:42:29] from another

[00:42:30] point of view

[00:42:30] he's written one

[00:42:32] from first person

[00:42:33] and then gone back

[00:42:34] and rewrote the book

[00:42:35] in third

[00:42:36] and he wrote one

[00:42:38] and then he started

[00:42:39] it over again

[00:42:40] starting from the end

[00:42:41] and telling the story

[00:42:43] backwards

[00:42:43] I mean that's what

[00:42:45] a genius Irving is

[00:42:46] you know

[00:42:47] then you just

[00:42:48] pray that you could

[00:42:50] get that kind of talent

[00:42:52] Stuart O'Nan's

[00:42:52] another one

[00:42:53] who does that

[00:42:54] my god

[00:42:54] in the very beginning

[00:42:56] you know

[00:42:57] you know what

[00:42:58] happens

[00:42:58] right

[00:42:59] when you start

[00:43:00] to read the story

[00:43:01] but then

[00:43:02] the rest of the book

[00:43:02] is you know

[00:43:03] how it got

[00:43:04] to that point

[00:43:05] he's amazing

[00:43:06] that's what

[00:43:07] the first book

[00:43:07] his I ever read

[00:43:08] was The Night Country

[00:43:09] oh

[00:43:10] that's a scary

[00:43:10] and that's the

[00:43:11] yeah that's the one

[00:43:12] with the school bus

[00:43:13] full of children

[00:43:14] and stuff

[00:43:14] and then there's

[00:43:15] The Last Night

[00:43:16] at the Red Lobster

[00:43:17] yeah

[00:43:18] Last Night at the Lobster

[00:43:19] yeah

[00:43:20] those are wonderful books

[00:43:22] Ocean State

[00:43:22] does the same thing

[00:43:23] in the very first page

[00:43:25] you know

[00:43:25] who the murderer is

[00:43:26] and who was killed

[00:43:27] and all that

[00:43:28] but the rest of the story

[00:43:30] is the how of it

[00:43:31] and the why of it

[00:43:31] and the after effects

[00:43:33] the after effects

[00:43:34] how everybody

[00:43:35] is hurt by it

[00:43:38] traumatized by it

[00:43:39] and how they deal

[00:43:40] with it

[00:43:41] I mean it's just like

[00:43:42] it's novels

[00:43:43] that you've never

[00:43:43] really read before

[00:43:44] Snow Angel

[00:43:45] that was made

[00:43:46] into a movie

[00:43:46] both the movie

[00:43:48] and the

[00:43:48] you know

[00:43:49] in the beginning

[00:43:49] of the movie

[00:43:49] you hear the gunshots

[00:43:50] and you know

[00:43:53] something's happened

[00:43:54] and you see the reaction

[00:43:56] on people's faces

[00:43:56] but then the whole rest

[00:43:58] of the book

[00:43:58] and the whole rest

[00:43:59] of the movie

[00:44:00] is how it led up

[00:44:01] to that point

[00:44:02] so it's just amazing

[00:44:03] to be able to write

[00:44:04] that way

[00:44:04] it's just

[00:44:05] I love that

[00:44:05] that's a lot of talent

[00:44:06] but those different

[00:44:07] points of view

[00:44:08] you know

[00:44:09] when I did Romy

[00:44:10] and Jasper

[00:44:11] like I said

[00:44:11] I wrote

[00:44:12] those actually started out

[00:44:13] chapter one

[00:44:14] in this book

[00:44:16] was previously published

[00:44:17] as Bond Servant

[00:44:20] and that was Romy's story

[00:44:23] well months down the road

[00:44:25] and I mean

[00:44:26] probably a year

[00:44:27] or so down the road

[00:44:28] I kept thinking

[00:44:29] about Jasper

[00:44:30] you know

[00:44:30] and what he would

[00:44:32] think about all that

[00:44:33] because you know

[00:44:33] it was his wife

[00:44:35] and so I wrote a story

[00:44:37] called The Big Empty

[00:44:39] or A Big Empty

[00:44:41] told on Jasper's

[00:44:42] point of view

[00:44:43] and that's chapter four

[00:44:44] in this novel

[00:44:44] and then those two

[00:44:46] just kept back and forth

[00:44:46] in my head

[00:44:47] so I let them say

[00:44:48] what they had to say

[00:44:49] to each other

[00:44:49] but two totally

[00:44:50] different points of view

[00:44:51] both told in first person

[00:44:53] and sometimes

[00:44:54] that was difficult

[00:44:55] in the writing

[00:44:55] while we're talking

[00:44:56] about writing

[00:44:56] because I did not want

[00:44:59] Jasper's voice

[00:45:00] to sound like Romy's voice

[00:45:01] and vice versa

[00:45:02] and obviously

[00:45:03] I'm not a man

[00:45:04] so having to write

[00:45:05] from the point of view

[00:45:06] of a male

[00:45:06] sometimes I would write

[00:45:08] something down

[00:45:09] and I would think

[00:45:10] wait a guy wouldn't

[00:45:11] think like that

[00:45:11] a guy's not going to

[00:45:12] think oh my sweet baby

[00:45:14] you know

[00:45:14] they're going to think

[00:45:15] my kiddo

[00:45:16] you know

[00:45:16] so to speak

[00:45:17] they just have a different

[00:45:18] way of looking at life

[00:45:19] than you know

[00:45:21] a woman does

[00:45:21] so there was

[00:45:22] that back and forth

[00:45:24] as a reader

[00:45:26] listening to

[00:45:27] Romy's point of view

[00:45:28] and then Jasper's

[00:45:29] point of view

[00:45:29] and I know

[00:45:30] some of the secrets

[00:45:31] maybe

[00:45:32] that Romy might have

[00:45:34] and as you're reading

[00:45:36] Jasper's part

[00:45:37] part of me

[00:45:38] is screaming

[00:45:39] but Jasper

[00:45:40] you don't know

[00:45:40] you don't know

[00:45:41] what happened

[00:45:41] and then of course

[00:45:42] you know

[00:45:42] I'm talking to my characters

[00:45:43] your characters

[00:45:45] you did a good job

[00:45:46] thank you

[00:45:47] because I'm able

[00:45:48] to kind of

[00:45:49] understand

[00:45:49] why Jasper feels

[00:45:51] this way

[00:45:51] but he doesn't have

[00:45:52] the information

[00:45:52] that I have

[00:45:53] because I got that

[00:45:54] from Romy

[00:45:55] so very convincing

[00:45:57] and very well done

[00:45:58] thank you

[00:45:58] yeah see

[00:45:59] that's the work

[00:45:59] that's the work

[00:46:01] that goes in

[00:46:02] when you talk about

[00:46:02] rewriting

[00:46:03] revising

[00:46:05] you're talking about

[00:46:06] developmental work

[00:46:07] that stuff rises

[00:46:09] from that

[00:46:10] developmental work

[00:46:11] and you potential

[00:46:12] authors out there

[00:46:13] that writing

[00:46:14] rewriting

[00:46:15] re-envisioning

[00:46:16] revising

[00:46:17] that's where

[00:46:18] this cream

[00:46:19] rises to the top

[00:46:21] of your

[00:46:22] resonation points

[00:46:23] the things

[00:46:24] that causes

[00:46:25] the reader

[00:46:25] to take part

[00:46:26] in what's going on

[00:46:27] have you ever read

[00:46:29] Russell Banks

[00:46:30] book Trailer Park

[00:46:31] I have not

[00:46:32] I've read

[00:46:32] Russell Banks

[00:46:33] I've read

[00:46:33] Cloud Splitter

[00:46:34] and Rule of the Bone

[00:46:36] oh Trailer Park

[00:46:37] is wonderful

[00:46:38] it's a bunch

[00:46:39] of stories

[00:46:40] that all take

[00:46:42] part in the same

[00:46:43] Trailer Park

[00:46:44] so something

[00:46:45] happens one night

[00:46:46] in the Trailer Park

[00:46:46] and we get

[00:46:47] a story

[00:46:49] from each trailer

[00:46:50] about what

[00:46:51] happened

[00:46:52] so it's all

[00:46:53] these different

[00:46:53] points of view

[00:46:54] from these

[00:46:54] different people

[00:46:55] who are

[00:46:55] evidently

[00:46:57] they're very

[00:46:57] impoverished

[00:46:58] and they're

[00:46:58] very uneducated

[00:47:00] and undereducated

[00:47:01] but Banks

[00:47:02] does something

[00:47:03] there

[00:47:03] that I mean

[00:47:04] Cloud Splitter

[00:47:06] is brilliant

[00:47:06] I mean it's

[00:47:07] one of the most

[00:47:07] brilliant novels

[00:47:08] I've ever read

[00:47:09] but this work

[00:47:10] he does

[00:47:10] in Trailer Park

[00:47:11] is just

[00:47:12] absolutely astounding

[00:47:13] so it's like

[00:47:13] short stories

[00:47:14] oh man

[00:47:15] I want to read

[00:47:15] that one

[00:47:16] and they all

[00:47:17] have to do

[00:47:17] with what

[00:47:18] happens one night

[00:47:19] in this Trailer Park

[00:47:20] and they're

[00:47:21] tied together

[00:47:22] so it's the same

[00:47:23] story being told

[00:47:24] several times

[00:47:25] but it's from

[00:47:27] inside these

[00:47:27] different trailers

[00:47:28] in different parts

[00:47:29] of the park

[00:47:30] with different

[00:47:30] people

[00:47:31] different perspectives

[00:47:32] who are

[00:47:33] experiencing the

[00:47:34] same thing

[00:47:35] and that's as far

[00:47:36] as I'm going to go

[00:47:37] because it's just

[00:47:39] wonderful

[00:47:39] we'll definitely

[00:47:40] have to check that out

[00:47:41] by the way

[00:47:41] we could go on

[00:47:42] forever

[00:47:43] yes we could

[00:47:44] Rhonda you're just

[00:47:45] an amazing

[00:47:45] author

[00:47:47] instructor

[00:47:48] thank you

[00:47:48] and somebody

[00:47:49] who is probably

[00:47:50] going to be

[00:47:51] incredibly influential

[00:47:52] for many

[00:47:53] aspiring authors

[00:47:54] not just in your

[00:47:55] class but

[00:47:56] anybody who

[00:47:57] listens to this

[00:47:57] pod

[00:47:57] we'd love to

[00:47:58] have you again

[00:47:59] thank you

[00:48:00] simply because

[00:48:01] you're just

[00:48:01] educational

[00:48:02] and entertaining

[00:48:03] and an

[00:48:03] extremely strong

[00:48:04] author

[00:48:05] but I know

[00:48:07] we need to

[00:48:07] wrap this up

[00:48:08] I do want to

[00:48:09] encourage people

[00:48:10] to go to

[00:48:11] Rhonda's

[00:48:11] Facebook page

[00:48:12] as well as

[00:48:13] to her blog

[00:48:14] which I will

[00:48:15] definitely put

[00:48:15] in the description

[00:48:16] and Robert

[00:48:17] where could we

[00:48:18] buy her book

[00:48:19] for pre-sale

[00:48:19] which we'll do

[00:48:20] shortly by the way

[00:48:21] as soon as she

[00:48:23] Rhonda as soon

[00:48:24] as you approve

[00:48:24] your cover

[00:48:25] your book will

[00:48:26] go up for sale

[00:48:26] on the site

[00:48:27] as a pre-sale

[00:48:28] and where does

[00:48:29] one buy that

[00:48:29] at

[00:48:32] redhawkpublications.com

[00:48:33] yeah we're

[00:48:38] we're gonna

[00:48:38] have a little

[00:48:39] holiday sale

[00:48:40] starting soon

[00:48:41] so 12 listeners

[00:48:43] out there

[00:48:43] please make sure

[00:48:44] you check out

[00:48:44] our sale

[00:48:45] and tell your

[00:48:45] friends

[00:48:46] by the way

[00:48:46] when you go

[00:48:47] to our

[00:48:48] Red Pug pod

[00:48:49] on YouTube

[00:48:50] make sure you

[00:48:51] like share

[00:48:51] and subscribe

[00:48:52] and make sure

[00:48:54] you check out

[00:48:54] all of our

[00:48:55] social media

[00:48:56] and are you

[00:48:56] gonna put

[00:48:57] like an image

[00:48:57] of Rhonda

[00:48:58] up on this

[00:48:59] pod

[00:49:00] to where if

[00:49:01] somebody sees

[00:49:01] her at

[00:49:01] Testful Beans

[00:49:02] they can

[00:49:02] come up to

[00:49:03] her and say

[00:49:03] let me buy

[00:49:04] you a coffee

[00:49:04] yeah if you

[00:49:05] come on

[00:49:07] Saturday mornings

[00:49:08] we kind of

[00:49:09] have a standing

[00:49:10] appointment

[00:49:10] except for this

[00:49:11] past Saturday

[00:49:12] I couldn't go

[00:49:12] because of

[00:49:13] husbands

[00:49:14] but you know

[00:49:15] what

[00:49:16] we're there

[00:49:17] usually Saturdays

[00:49:17] see Steve

[00:49:17] doesn't listen

[00:49:18] to the podcast

[00:49:19] so we can

[00:49:19] talk junk

[00:49:20] about him

[00:49:21] my wife

[00:49:22] doesn't listen

[00:49:23] either

[00:49:23] but yeah

[00:49:25] please by all

[00:49:25] means

[00:49:26] Tasteful Beans

[00:49:26] is our sponsor

[00:49:27] they're our

[00:49:28] friends

[00:49:28] so enjoy

[00:49:29] checking them

[00:49:30] out and maybe

[00:49:31] doing a

[00:49:32] Rhonda

[00:49:32] sighting

[00:49:34] and you

[00:49:35] folks just

[00:49:36] have got

[00:49:36] a joy

[00:49:37] coming to

[00:49:37] you

[00:49:38] when you

[00:49:39] have an

[00:49:39] author

[00:49:39] who works

[00:49:40] as hard

[00:49:40] as Rhonda

[00:49:41] Browning White

[00:49:41] has worked

[00:49:42] on this

[00:49:42] novel

[00:49:42] to where

[00:49:43] it resonates

[00:49:43] and to

[00:49:44] where the

[00:49:45] redemption

[00:49:45] matters

[00:49:46] you're going

[00:49:47] to have

[00:49:47] a marvelous

[00:49:47] time

[00:49:48] it's a joy

[00:49:49] to be given

[00:49:49] literature

[00:49:50] like this

[00:49:50] so thank

[00:49:51] you very

[00:49:51] much

[00:49:52] for writing

[00:49:52] it

[00:49:52] and we

[00:49:53] look forward

[00:49:53] to more

[00:49:55] work

[00:49:55] from you

[00:49:56] and especially

[00:49:57] if we can

[00:49:57] help guide

[00:49:58] you

[00:49:58] to fame

[00:50:00] and fortune

[00:50:00] we would

[00:50:01] love that

[00:50:02] so you

[00:50:04] folks out

[00:50:05] there in

[00:50:05] podcast land

[00:50:06] thank you

[00:50:07] for joining

[00:50:07] us on

[00:50:08] red pub

[00:50:08] pod

[00:50:09] I'm

[00:50:09] Robert

[00:50:10] Knipe

[00:50:10] with

[00:50:10] Patty Thompson

[00:50:11] reminding

[00:50:12] Rhonda

[00:50:12] that she

[00:50:13] has one

[00:50:13] more thing

[00:50:14] to say

[00:50:15] what does

[00:50:15] she have

[00:50:15] to say

[00:50:16] oh

[00:50:16] red pub

[00:50:17] pod

[00:50:17] red pub

[00:50:18] pod

[00:50:18] oh she's

[00:50:19] a professional

[00:50:19] she's a pro

[00:50:21] so thanks

[00:50:22] very much

[00:50:22] for listening

[00:50:23] please listen

[00:50:24] to us

[00:50:24] more

[00:50:25] oh thanks

[00:50:25] for coming

[00:50:26] we really

[00:50:26] love you

[00:50:27] and you

[00:50:28] guys

[00:50:28] take it

[00:50:29] easy out

[00:50:29] there in

[00:50:29] podcast land

[00:50:30] be safe

[00:50:31] be kind

[00:50:32] and make

[00:50:33] sure you

[00:50:33] vote

[00:50:33] all right

[00:50:35] red pub

[00:50:35] pod

[00:50:37] bye

[00:50:38] this has been

[00:50:40] red pub

[00:50:40] pod

[00:50:41] red pub

[00:50:42] pod

[00:50:42] red pub

[00:50:42] pod

[00:50:43] red red

[00:50:44] red pub

[00:50:44] pod

[00:50:45] pod

[00:50:45] red pub

[00:50:47] pod

[00:50:47] red pub

[00:50:48] red pub

[00:50:48] publications

[00:50:49] red pub

[00:50:50] pod

[00:50:50] red pub

[00:50:51] pod

[00:50:51] oh she's

[00:50:52] a professor

[00:50:52] she's a

[00:50:53] bird

[00:50:53] you