Bitchin’ About Covert Narcissists and “How Old is This?!?”

[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it, this is the MESH Well hello everyone, welcome to My Mom is a Bitch I'm your host Jill Maragos, back at it I did miss two weeks, last week was Thanksgiving

[00:00:24] and my husband and I went out and spent some time with his family which is lovely and strange because it's lovely, there's no fighting just normal talking and supportive environment no shoes dropping, you know? Is there going to be some? Are there going to be a fight?

[00:00:43] No fights, just a normal family taking a while to get used to it It's been like 19 years and I'm still kind of like how does this all work? And then the week before I was just in a funk just in a funky fucking funk

[00:00:54] and I didn't do it so I'm sorry I don't want to say a lot of people I have full of people, message me going what's up where is there is a podcast which I love My personal friend Michelle who is a school psychologist out there doing great work

[00:01:10] and I appreciate her and I love her, she's a great lady She asked me and then I got some emails one from a woman named Candy who is now a binge listener which is awesome I'm glad to have you and Cherith who's fucking awesome herself

[00:01:27] sent her a lovely email and I just, I think you guys are all killing it You're killing the game We also got a review I also got a review which was really lovely, five stars and the person who wrote the review her evil sister is named Tammy

[00:01:45] which is hilarious somebody's actually related to Tammy bitch tits So let's do it I wanted to I guess go a little bit deeper into narcissism when we hear narcissism or when normal people hear narcissism maybe somebody who wasn't raised by a narcissist

[00:02:00] they just think, oh some girl who thinks she's really pretty you know whatever but there's a couple different types of narcissism and I want to kind of go through that because it's confusing I as a person and I'm guilty of this would hear definitions

[00:02:18] and my mom might have a handful of the traits but then not all of them and I'm like well she's not this though you kind of tend to leave the door open for recovery or for hope that this person is able to change

[00:02:33] and I'm going to be honest I feel like no matter what the diagnosis is or what the traits are if somebody makes you feel like shit and is treating you shitty fuck that person go away from them I understand it's tricky if you have kids

[00:02:54] and that's you're going to have to deal with this person in some way and I'm sure you'll figure it out there's lots of ways to do that but if you're in a relationship if you're dating someone or you're married and this person is

[00:03:08] physically or mentally abusive to you I'm here to tell you you deserve better you do I'm sorry but you do and I'm just going to keep telling you that until you fucking believe me because it works in both directions right

[00:03:24] if somebody keeps telling you your piece of garbage person eventually you're going to start to believe it and hopefully if I tell you they're the piece of garbage person and you're fucking awesome then you're going to believe me might take a few years we'll get there I'm trying

[00:03:39] I'm trying on me alright but we'll get there anyway so let's talk about narcissists fun there's a whole lot of fun alright I have a few different articles and they all kind of say the same thing and that is that there are two types of narcissists

[00:04:00] the overt, in your face grandiose I'm a narcissist, narcissist you see him coming down the road and then there's also the covert they call them vulnerable quote unquote vulnerable narcissists more introverted those people aren't as known but to me they're they're worse worse people

[00:04:26] and we're going to talk about that alright so so huh okay yes okay so this is where we're going to start we're going to start at psychology today because they know what they're talking about they do they know their shit over there at the psychology today

[00:04:42] and we're going to start with them talking about covert narcissism uh psychoanalyst James Masterson first identified the closet narcissist that's in quotes closet narcissist someone deflated with an inadequate self perception lacking the aggressiveness of the exhibition as narcissists they're more prone to depression and feelings of emptiness

[00:05:07] or like things are falling apart this subtype has also been referred to as a coat covert narcissist vulnerable narcissist or introverted narcissist on the surface they can be hard to identify these narcissists may appear shy humble or anxious their gratification may be indirect

[00:05:26] through their emotional investment in someone they admire they take things personally and feel distrustful mistreated underappreciated and misunderstood although they devalue themselves they dream of greatness and wonder why people don't appreciate and understand them hmm they still qualify for narcissistic personality disorder particularly feeling special and wanting admiration

[00:05:55] perhaps secretly lacking empathy and feeling entitled they're still self-centered and expect special treatment they often feel that their specialness is not appreciated and their misunderstood or that people or the world at large hasn't sufficiently recognized their uniqueness some play the role of victim and a martyr

[00:06:18] listen to this too they might be philanthropists or in the clergy or helping professions yet despite the fact that they appear to genuinely care for others they're motivated by a need for recognition power over others or egotistic pride they might help by taking over

[00:06:35] without even asking for permission they behave self-righteously superior moralistic or like an exploited resentful sufferer for all of their giving and I think that's interesting I think that's my mom okay I think that along with that we'll probably see it in other articles somewhere is this feeling slighted

[00:06:59] kind of feeling passive aggressiveness you know alright okay I needed to add on to this psychology today article like I know what the fuck I'm talking about alright contrasting with the exhibitionist narcissist despite sharing core traits in a sense behaviorally the covert narcissist is the mirror image

[00:07:21] of the exhibitionist narcissist while the latter demands to be the center of attention the former feels slighted that they're not gets attention by playing the victim instead of working the room the covert narcissist is self-absorbed normal introverts are generally good listeners but not the narcissist

[00:07:41] they consider others boring or ignorant rather than ordering others around the covert narcissist can get their way indirectly through passive aggressor behavior I call it you guys I was right I didn't have to correct them I just jumped the gun that's all they may agree to things

[00:07:58] but not follow through be late forget or pretend there was no agreement all narcissists are manipulators all of them covert narcissist may add self pity to their toolkit to control others rather than put down others directly they are more likely to express envy

[00:08:16] which I think is kinda interesting alright due to their introversion instead of bragging openly covert narcissist display reserved smugness and oh the fuck I hate smugness you hate smugness? smugness is one of the worst fucking traits in this that smugness I took this

[00:08:33] as I'm going off on a tangent I took this class tried to learn Italian and this bitch just so fucking smug I hated her from the minute I walked into the fucking room that doesn't happen all the time she was so fucking smug she took my chair

[00:08:50] we always sat in the same chair and it was easy for the poor little Italian girl who was teaching the class to know our names and remember where we were she sat in my fucking chair there was nothing special about the chair it was just a table

[00:09:01] with chairs around it they were all the same she sat in my fuck anyway smugness where were we okay okay judge everyone as okay so let's throw that over due to their introversion instead of bragging openly covert narcissist display reserved smugness and judge everyone as inferior

[00:09:25] they might act aloof and disinterested or make dismissive or discounting gestures like looking away sighing, yawning, and politely or acting bored while all narcissists react poorly to criticism the introvert may have the thinnest skin of all because they believe they're uniquely sensitive instead of the aggressive

[00:09:46] and exploitive nature of extroverted narcissist coverts have feelings of neglect or belittlement hyper sensitivity anxiety and delusions of persecution yoop that is so my mom to a T so passive aggressive I think that there was some tipping point in our relationship

[00:10:06] where she just started to get real shitty might have been me getting married I think she was either envious of it or I don't know but since that moment until I ended my relationship with her she just gets these little digs in you know

[00:10:21] these little passive aggressive digs in it was very weird and she just sits alone in her place she sits alone in her house doesn't do anything which if this was a normal person I'd be like, ah, it's really sad come live with us but oh my gosh

[00:10:34] she wouldn't want to we wouldn't want to have her there at all um but she just wants to be alone with her cats that's all she really wants and you know she just she does these little power plays my aunts she's losing her marbles she gets lost

[00:10:51] going places she's in her 70s she gets lost driving around and her two sisters who are fucking angels on earth just these great people we're like, we want to take you to a neurologist get you checked out they had like a month to wait for this appointment

[00:11:07] and they were all strategizing you're gonna meet at this house my mom shows up at my aunts at these house she's like, I forgot my purse as though that was gonna end everything when they rush back get the purse make it to the place on time

[00:11:21] my mom becomes sick which I think is one of those things that she can kind of turn on and off and doesn't finish the appointment and she's like, I'm not coming back here I'm done with this it was her way of shutting all of it down

[00:11:33] because she, God forbid you see her as inferior in any way she can't hear you can't hear anything they have to go with her to translate she's losing her vision because she's macular degeneration and she doesn't care she just wants to be alone in her house

[00:11:48] that's the sign of somebody who's just like I can't admit that there's anything wrong with me and I don't want to talk or see anybody because it's just too difficult like no friends it's crazy and then after that she decides she doesn't want to talk

[00:12:02] to one of my aunts anymore because God forbid they try to reschedule the appointment so yeah it's I don't know I tell those stories because I hope at some point someone would be like my mom too not to get sympathy because she's whatever she is

[00:12:17] I don't even care anymore but alright so that was the psychology today article I think that's pretty good but maybe we can add to it a little bit with these other ones alright this next article is from The Cut that's a website alright this is

[00:12:38] it's mostly talking about the difference between introverts and covert narcissists which I think is a thing because if you're like me and you're like yeah I kinda like being at home then if you're hearing this article you think well maybe maybe I am a narcissist and I think

[00:12:53] you know what side tangent again I think all people who are raised by narcissists even if we're not we tend to worry about being a narcissist or not I do I have like oh my gosh I'll just tell you guys okay alright listen

[00:13:10] I have been in this weird place for like a couple weeks where I am stuck in a loop I shower I pretty much shower every day which sounds gross but I do I don't really like washing my hair and it's okay my hair is used to it

[00:13:31] like I only really need to wash it every few days sometimes it gets worse than that but here's the whole point of why I'm telling you that is because I don't know literally I don't know if I'm supposed to be like look who I am

[00:13:48] yeah I'm not wearing makeup my hair is dirty I look well and I don't walk in there looking like a bomb you know into the store or whatever but I don't go to work on a daily basis if I have a job it's stand up

[00:14:00] and I get dressed nice and I do my hair and makeup cause I show up for work nice but on a daily basis I don't know if I'm just to be it's supposed to be like yeah this is who I am look at me I put 10 pounds on

[00:14:13] after the app injected me feel my stomach I love me for me I'm doing this I don't have to wear makeup to please you and then there's the other side where I'm like well I buy you guys I buy pairs of boots I fall in love with them

[00:14:30] it's a store and I'm like these boots are fucking amazing and I never wear them I have pairs that I've bought for years and I never wear them clearly I like clothes but then also what am I gonna do dress up to go to Target to get

[00:14:46] uh ant acid from a dog what what kind of a lunatic would I look like being super dressed up so now I'm like in this weird area of like am I if I dress up am I a narcissist if I love myself for being 10 pounds

[00:15:01] over weight am I a narcissist what's the appropriate thing is fashion narcissism is makeup narcissism I don't know and now uh I look gross most of the time I'm walking around looking dumpy and you know what it doesn't help that my husband doesn't give a shit

[00:15:17] he loves me for me what the fuck he just loves me so I can get gross and he doesn't care uh okay sorry I know there was a bad tangent but it's just it's stuck in my head if you have an opinion on whether or not

[00:15:33] I should shower or uh dress nice I don't know send me an email at evilmompod at gmail.com I'd love to hear your thoughts on it oh my gosh I just know one day I'm gonna get that shitty email they're just gonna be meat okay so

[00:15:53] okay let's go back I use half of my time on my rants okay uh let's see this is from the cut that's a website and they actually quote actual uh psychologists and so so I trust it it seems legit and I think I mentioned this

[00:16:11] this article is about uh it's about covert narcissist but it's uh it's it's saying that there is a difference between introverts introverts and covert narcissist which I think is a good thing I'm an introvert I like to stay at home uh this tendency you could argue

[00:16:29] being an introvert may arise simply because introverts like spending a lot of time in deep reflection getting lost in their own thoughts and some of those thoughts naturally are going to be about themselves but at what point I'm reading from the article at what point does self-reflection

[00:16:43] cross the line into self-preoccupation as it turns out there are some striking similarities between the popular understanding of introversion and a psychological characteristic called covert narcissism it's all the entitlement and grandiosity most people associate with narcissism minus the bluster maybe you know someone like this

[00:17:04] they tend to believe they're being underestimated or overlooked like their amazing qualities are forever going unnoticed by everyone else they often take things too personally especially criticism and sometimes feel a little resentful when other people bother them with their problems hmm uh blah blah there's a quiz

[00:17:28] but we're not going to take it because it's you know it's loaded alright but this is basically the quiz is basically all this stuff in question form uh take a look at some of the items on a scale to measure covert narcissism designed by psychologist Jonathan Cheek

[00:17:45] there's just a few things here it says I easily become wrapped up in my own interests and forget the existence of others I feel that I am temperamentally different from other people when I enter a room I often become self-conscious and feel that the eyes of others

[00:18:02] are all upon me and uh and that's a narcissistic fantasy right there it's assuming that the world is paying attention to you so yeah that's the thing those are sort of the three questions or three statements that would not necessarily make you an introvert but the covert narcissist

[00:18:20] it also says there are a few outward signs of this version of narcissism instead of bragging aloud for example covert narcissists mostly keep their sky high opinions of themselves locked inside their own hats leaving them feeling underst- uh misunderstood and overlooked uh I thought this was interesting

[00:18:41] because I was kind of like Zoe Deschanel but it said Zoe Deschanel for example may not may or may not be an introvert and she may or may not be a narcissist but back in 2012 she gave an interview to a lure

[00:18:55] that includes a quote about her college experience and it's a pretty great articulation of the state of mind it says I went to Northwestern because I had gone to a really non-traditional high school I was like it'd be cool to have a traditional college experience

[00:19:12] she told the magazine then I was like oh but none of these people understand what's cool about me my specialness is not appreciated in this place what oh shity I kind of like her I don't know maybe I don't know maybe she's not a narcissist that's what

[00:19:27] it could be either way um psychologists uh however argue that all narcissists are in reality quite vulnerable or even needy despite their outward boastfulness there are covert narcissist aspects to any kind of narcissist so that's great it's just a big fucking mess isn't it uh

[00:19:48] and they say there's really no really good redeeming qualities to being a covert narcissist because overt narcissists tend to be like leaders of companies you know they there's there's quote-unquote good narcissism like you know belief in yourself or whatever the people who feel like they can't fail

[00:20:05] and they become like politicians or uh leaders of companies those are the at least that's one trait one positive trait of overt narcissists but covert narcissists they're like yeah they have no redeeming qualities about them so yeah that's weird anyway

[00:20:22] uh and then lastly we have one more article from uh health.com that's legit health.com now this article uh says that there's three different types and they say there's covert overt and then people with narcissistic personality disorder but I don't know I feel like people who are

[00:20:47] like all narcissists have a narcissistic personality disorder like well I guess that's not true because you can have narcissistic traits but not be a narcissist we're all figuring this shit out together uh narcissists this is the quote from this article in health uh.com

[00:21:07] narcissism is a failure of healthy sense of self that's what Elizabeth G. Loran PhD and assistant professor of medical psychology at Columbia so she's got she's got some credibility uh in general a narcissist has an out size need to be admired a sense of entitlement

[00:21:27] and constant thoughts about being better than others whether that means being more successful or more loved the over-arching expression of this type of personality is an obsession with self that prevents intimacy with others and I think that's the big difference right there the big difference is you know

[00:21:47] if you have narcissistic traits uh you might still be able to have a relationship with other people but someone with narcissistic personality disorder lacks empathy to an extent or uh has such narcissistic traits that they uh they can't be in a good relationship I have I have dated

[00:22:09] narcissists you know this I have dated narcissists I've had narcissistic friends who start off so fun and so charming men and women and you're like this person's so much fun and they're so interesting and so engaging and they just make me feel great about myself

[00:22:27] and then six months later you're like look that's their number on my screen on my phone I can't do it it's it they're exhausting and uh and they'll kill your soul they really will my mom did it's weird those Thanksgiving one of the things I'm thankful for

[00:22:43] is just not having her around it's so fucking peaceful doesn't it maybe sound like a ship person I don't care I didn't set it up that way you know I've been referencing her a lot but this is my mom is a bitch podcast so it seems right

[00:23:01] alrighty what oh my gosh it's already uh 22 minutes in means we should do a dramatic journal reading I don't know if these are fucking funny or not but I found this and I look this is actually pretty funny I don't know the context I think

[00:23:15] a male comic brought his girlfriend to a club and wanted me to sit with her and keep her company while he went off and talked to people which I thought was a little bit weird and she was apparently mean to me so here we go dramatic journal reading

[00:23:29] I did not like what his girlfriend said to me and I don't have to take it she is not my problem I didn't bring her she is his problem and last night I was tired from busting my ass all day painting so I will do whatever

[00:23:54] the fuck I want hang out have fun I will hang out more when I don't have an hour plus drive home I don't care what you want from me this is what I want from me your new girlfriend can suck big dick because no thanks that's it

[00:24:24] that's the journal reading guys oh my goodness that is a good one alright we need to do something positive pull this shit out of the ground we need to weed by the roots change our minds change some thoughts about ourselves not those other people fuck them

[00:24:48] let's keep those fun alright we are going back to CBT cognitive behavioral therapy techniques these are the best because they are practical but I am going to do a couple because they are pretty short it's only about 24 minutes so first of all how old is this

[00:25:08] that's the name of the how old is this which makes it sound how old is this when did you have this shirt since it's real old how old is this each time you have a familiar painful thought ask yourself how old is this recall the earliest

[00:25:30] time you can remember having the thought this will remind you that it's just a thought that it has come up before that it will continue to come up from time to time and that you will continue to survive the thought and carry on with your life

[00:25:44] just as you always have before your batting average of surviving this thought is 1000 I think that's, I don't watch a lot of baseball but that sounds about right you have a perfect score you have a perfect survival rate of every time this thought has come up

[00:26:04] you've always lived through it I think that's kind of interesting you've always gotten past you never died from it never once and the next one is more of a physical thing sometimes it works for people I haven't quite done it it doesn't work for me

[00:26:22] this is me and I'm not going to share it because it could work for somebody each time you have a painful thought let go of it by turning your hand over as if you were letting go of a small stone that you've been carrying and tell yourself

[00:26:36] there's a thought, let it go as you turn your hand and let the thought fall away just flip your hand like you're flipping a burger but without a spatula it's hard to explain without a visual but I think you get it, just flip it over let it go

[00:26:56] I think I have done a version of this at some point, I went to this lady it was really cool I think it was in North Carolina she was George T'Kai's cousin the guy from Star Trek who's super cool and funny on twitter, follow him by the way

[00:27:12] and she would say when you have a feeling pull it out of your chest and look at it and go, oh that's anxiety and then put it in the anxiety basket and I was like pulling something pretend as I bumped the mic with my hand

[00:27:26] pulling something pretend off of my chest and go, oh I see that's anxiety putting it in the anxiety basket and being like, it went away sometimes I think my husband thinks this chick's crazy because I just need to say stuff out loud

[00:27:40] hey look, I'm really anxious right now and it sucks, sorry sometimes just putting it out in the sunlight to expose it kinda helps me three things today like a bonus to the bonus and the helpful tools and if this shit's working for you let me know

[00:27:58] evilmompot at gmail.com I appreciate anybody who's listening I really do, if you like it I don't know, subscribe just feel so needed please subscribe, please like me you know, uh, subscribe give me a good review that would be the boss and uh send me an email

[00:28:18] if you want me to talk about something I'm fucking open talking about it cause I'm running out of fucking ideas just to keep pounding this shit into our heads this is for me too you guys I'm getting just as much out of it as you guys

[00:28:30] cause I am not fucking normal but I'm working at it and uh, doing this is helping me and hopefully helping somebody else too alright have a great week I believe in you you got this and uh, the way they treated you

[00:28:48] I don't care who the fuck it was if it's a mom, a dad, a grandmother boyfriend, girlfriend, dog dogs usually are right but yeah, you're better than that okay, talk soon okay bye thanks for watching