#WalkingIntoSantiago #CaminoDeSantiago #ComingHomeToYourself #LettingGo #SpiritualPilgrimage #TransformationalTravel #JoyAndRelease #SoulSauntering #ReEntryAfterRetreat #WalkWithIntention
[00:00:02] What You Want, When You Want It, Where You Want It. This is The MESH. Hey everybody, I'm Amy Chang, a nurse, a mom, and a health coach, and this is Healthy AF, where honesty and humor and heart meet real talk about feeling good again, inside and out. We're cutting through the noise, dropping the guilt, and reminding you, getting healthy isn't about perfection.
[00:00:30] It's about choosing yourself, one loving decision at a time. Let's get into it. Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of Healthy AF. It is the last week in June, and I'm here with my friend Carla Wogan. We are wrapping up our pilgrimage through June, talking about pilgrimages, and specifically the Camino pilgrimage we just went on in April and May. My name is Amy Chang, and I'm a health coach here with Healthy Life Health and Wellness Coaching.
[00:00:58] We're going to go over today group dynamics versus going on a pilgrimage by yourself. We're going to talk about my own entry into Santiago, and really some interesting things happened and shifted for me in my intention and also in just, gosh, I don't know.
[00:01:18] What would you say, my lens, my way of being in those last like three or four days of that pilgrimage after that really heavy, hard work that happened kind of in the middle of the pilgrimage. So we're going to go over that, and we're also going to just throw in anything else we want to. We're going to go into squirrels, rabbit holes, something shiny. We're going to stay open to the unexpected. Yes, we are. We're going to go where we want to go, and you're invited to come with us. Come along on a journey with us.
[00:01:48] Pretty much. So Carla, let's chat about group dynamics. I'll let you start go. Okay. So you can go on a pilgrimage lots of ways. If you go on a pilgrimage by yourself, you're by yourself. And if you go with a group, part of the pilgrimage, which I don't know that I've been clear enough explaining to people that that's part of what's happening, but it's part of what's happening. That is a part of the pilgrimage is the experience of moving as a group.
[00:02:16] And so kind of an overall theory of group dynamics is that a group will form, or they kind of get to know each other. They'll norm, whether you begin to come with some group norms, and then they storm, whether you rebel against those group norms. And then sometimes you form again, and then you begin to break up. So that's a lot. It's a lot. And that's what we did. So we didn't know each other, not everyone. I'm the only one that knew everyone.
[00:02:43] And so we formed as a group, and we kind of had to get to know each other, actually form in norms. So we formed first, and then we began to come up with some group norms. And then people started to rebel against those group norms. Okay. So wait, I want to make this really specific. So when we formed, those were those first few days where it's like the beginning of camp, and you're having these deep conversations with people, and you're going to talk to him, and then four hours, you know, and then you're going to break for lunch, and then you're going to talk with her for three hours. Yeah.
[00:03:12] So four minutes, we're getting to know each other, and we are unconsciously figuring out how we're going to function as a group. And then we begin to storm because we're used as adults, even more so than children. We're used to living how we live. Yeah, we are. And it's really hard to shift that, right? And we're in an intense and experience. So we are all in an environment that we're not used to, our sleep patterns have changed.
[00:03:37] And I'm asking you to move as a group, which is really a challenging thing to do. So we begin to form, we start to make some norms, and then there's the storming. And it's an unconscious thing. It's not like you didn't go to the swamp because you're like, I'm going to rebel against this slow people in the back. You're just doing your own thing. So everybody's doing their own thing. You've got 14 people doing their own thing, and then there's some storming. And then people get mad when you say, hey, we're going to have to do this together. And so you're sort of pushing against the norms.
[00:04:07] And then you go, okay, these are the norms. I'm going to live with these for two weeks. And these become, then the group kind of comes together. And then when you know it's about time to go, you start to break apart again. Because it's just like when a teenager begins to grow up and you storm against your parents, so it's a little bit easier when you leave. So that happens over and over and over in groups. I remember what was hard for me once, you know, I had those first few days of the forms and norms. And then the storm came even for me in the pace.
[00:04:36] And I remember saying to you like, Carla, I live a very intentionally slow life. And this like being in the hotel, getting your luggage down at eight, having the breakfast at that, you know, is like throwing me. I was like, I am not liking this. So there's the story I tell. Well, I work at a summer camp sometimes as a chaplain. And one year I was at the chaplain for this wilderness camp. And there was this, I don't know, sixth, seventh grade kid. And he just refused to keep up with the group.
[00:05:06] He just walked so slow. And I went up to him and I was like, do you think you could walk a little bit faster to keep up with the group? And he said, nah, I find it more enjoyable to walk my own pace. And that is absolutely true. There is nothing more enjoyable than walking your own pace and living your own life. And the way that you want to live it. Doing what you want, when you want, the way you want. Exactly. Right. That's great. And then when you come together as a group, you have to be willing to give a little bit, right?
[00:05:34] You can't just have it your way and everybody gives a little bit. And that's a little bit uncomfortable. And the opportunity of that is that you can learn some things about yourself if you bring that intentionality to it. You know, like some of the things I learned, there was one day where someone was leading us and they were right. They knew exactly when to stop. And some of the rest of the group said, no, no, no, this isn't where we stop. And I listened to the louder voices and I told us to keep going. And the person who had been leading said, actually, I was right.
[00:06:04] And then I was wrong. But she turned out just to be right because we did just keep going too long because as the leader, I let myself listen to the louder voices as opposed to the voice that actually knew what to do. Because I didn't want that conflict in that moment. And so to avoid this conflict, I made a bigger conflict because we walked further than we wanted to walk. And then people are annoyed that we've walked further.
[00:06:27] So anyway, that and the other thing I sort of discovered about group dynamics was in our group in the beginning, the first couple of days I was trying to hold us together. Because we were the further away you are from Santiago, the more obscure the directions are. And you have to follow the map closely or you can easily get lost because there's markings, but they're not very clear markings. And the closer you get to Santiago and the more people who are walking, it becomes very, very, very well marked. It's very hard to get lost.
[00:06:56] So in the beginning, I was trying to keep us together so we wouldn't get too lost because then that takes even longer. Which meant that the slow people, the fast people had to walk slower and wait and the slow people had to walk faster. And so nobody was really comfortable. Yeah. So when we get in, so at that time when you were annoyed when you were at the front and we were so slow, there was never more than about a 15 minute wait. That you were waiting. So the last couple of days when we were really close to Santiago and I knew it would be really hard to get lost because the directions were really very, very well marked.
[00:07:27] And I just said, just go your own pace because I'm tired of trying to hold this group together. Yes. And Amy Chang said, got it. Boom. Fast. And then the pace difference was like an hour and a half to three hours. Like you would get there an hour and a half to three hours before the people at the back. Yeah. Because everybody's kind of walking their pace at that time. You know, one thing for me. And that was okay. Was there anything wrong with that? Yeah, no. It was an interesting thing to note, the really big difference.
[00:07:52] And, you know, there was a difference between I want to go to bed at 730 and I want to be up late. And so, again, that's the difference between a pilgrimage and a vacation. A vacation, I'm going to get what I want when I want it because I'm going on vacation. A pilgrimage is I'm putting myself in a potentially uncomfortable environment because I'm going to learn something about myself and be open to that. You know, I've got two things in my head right now.
[00:08:17] One is when I went through the leadership program that taught me how to coach, it was seven months of four times a week of three hours each time. Okay. It was an intensive kind of thing. And I often describe that to people as the most intentionally uncomfortable, fully supported time of my life. Yeah. Like you go into it. Yeah.
[00:08:42] To get kind of ripped up and also the same people who are inviting you to be confronted are fully supporting you the entire time. Right. And good things happen in that environment where we're safe and we are uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, and the other thing that I've noticed about myself, you know, I do love people and I am extroverted.
[00:09:12] And also when I look at my function in a group, I'm almost always isolating myself and a little bit different. Like on the field, I grew up playing catcher, totally different position. Right. You're a leader, but not really one of them, but totally one of them. And then I was a goalkeeper. Same, same. Wow. Right. Yeah. And I can see that in some of my volunteer things as the children were growing and I was at home.
[00:09:42] And I notice it even now sometimes like if I'm in a CrossFit class or if I'm with a pilgrimage group. Yeah. I am happy leading. And also I'm kind of off by myself. I'm happy being in the back. And also I'm kind of off by myself, but I enjoy knowing that you're there, but I don't always want to be in. And it's, it's perplexing to me.
[00:10:03] I don't have any, I don't have any solution or conclusion or, but it's something with just to notice like, huh, I really love being part of this group. And also sometimes I'm in my own world and really happy. Yeah. And I mean, that's, that's, again, it's not to say that the pilgrimage is going to say this is the right way or the wrong way.
[00:10:26] It just, it gives you that opportunity to notice things about yourself and like, yeah, actually I, I like that about me and I'm, I'm okay with that. And it does push against the group, but that's okay because this is, you know, part of who I am. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:41] And I really loved the storming when, when I got through the storm and into maybe the, the, the reform, I guess was for me when we were at that one hotel and all the pilgrims were in the cafeteria at the same flipping time. This was for breakfast. Yes. Yes. This was the, um, one of the last hotels we were in. And, um, that was the day that I went out and I bought everyone coffee.
[00:11:11] I bought me the decaf. I bought y'all the instant. I was like the next to last day you did my ready coffee. Yeah. Because we had those instant water heaters in our room, which was awesome. And it was, you know, what was hard for me was the pace of do it this way every day and be around people all day.
[00:11:31] And one thing that really harshed that vibe and made it hard for me was I did not have my coffee time by myself quiet at six, six 30 when I'm up. And so that was the one time that we had that little thing. And I'm like, I'm having my coffee. Y'all are having your coffee. We are not standing in that line. It was, it was a way for me to like, not fight against the storm, but be like, wow, this is a stormy spot for me. How can I fix it? How can I like work around it?
[00:12:00] I mean, instead of just being a pout, instead of pouting and making it a problem. So that was really cool. When I bought those Nest cafes, my, my world changed. Yeah. That was a great day. Yeah. So you want to, I don't know what time it is. We're 13 minutes in. So do you want to tell them about your, so, so that the day you bought the coffee actually was the next to last day.
[00:12:25] Um, and we, we had had a very crowded breakfast. And anyway, so we all had coffee the last day. Before we hit Santiago. So the last day we, we walk into Santiago and I had made the choice where instead of walking 15 miles to get there, we, we walked seven one day and then we walked seven the next day. So we had a final seven miles into Santiago. And again, we knew it was going to be really well marked.
[00:12:52] And so I said to the group, you know, just go whatever pace you want to go. And we will all get to Santiago and we all get there. We'll take a picture. Everybody just go and tell us what happened when you got there. So I have to back up to the day after my second rest day. Okay. Cause you know, I did the blisters. I'm going home rest day, walk in the Birkenstocks day, uh, chosen rest day, which felt totally different.
[00:13:21] Got some of the swelling out of my legs. And the next day we ran to, we went to that and I ran. We, Amy ran, the rest of us did not run. Yeah. I ran and it was, um, a complete expression of joy. Just absolute unbridled joy. My heels were not hurting. Um, my soul had done the work that it needed to do. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:13:51] And it was raining. So I had on that big blue poncho, which was flapping my cape. It was hilarious. And, um, and I did, I ran that 11 miles most, most of the way. And I'd walk when I wanted to walk. I'd trot when I wanted to trot. Uh, um, that was really beautiful through the forest and down rocks and over limbs.
[00:14:16] And, uh, it's just such, such a healing, beautiful, playful. I felt playful. Um, which was one of the things you had said you wanted to be earlier on the journey. Yeah. It was playful. I love being playful. And when I'm bound up, it is not happening. So, um, those last three days were run when you want to kind of days for me. And you did set us loose.
[00:14:43] And that was a blessing for me, not because I was annoyed at having to wait, but, um, because my body was like, okay, thank you for keeping your promise and taking care of me. Now let's go have fun. Yeah. So, um, the last day when we walked into Santiago, I actually spent about two hours of that walk or I don't even know how long it took.
[00:15:07] I spent about two thirds of that walk in conversation with another pilgrim, which was beautiful and fabulous. And, um, we talked a lot about faith and certainty and, um, just, just all things, things you talk about on a pilgrimage, you know, whatever comes up and stopping to take pictures of cats and whatnot and eat croissants.
[00:15:32] And then about, uh, 45 minutes or so out, he said, I'm going to put in my headphones. I'm like, okay, great. So I put in my headphones and ran a lot, walked a lot. And then we get into Santiago. And, um, even when we get got like to the city, now we're in city traffic. And one thing I'm going to say right now, that is such a blessing about being in Portugal
[00:16:01] and Spain, when a pedestrian walks up to the crosswalk, they stop on a dime. There's no, like, I'm going to slow down. And the driver's looking at the pedestrian, the pedestrian's looking at the driver and and the pedestrian is like, I don't really know if he's going to stop. So I don't know if that's in all of Portugal and Spain, but it is along the Camino because there's so many people walking. Well, it was delightful. There is a pilgrim is get the right away. Yes. Even like you're not even to the crosswalk yet.
[00:16:27] They see you coming and it's so, um, anyway, we get into this big city and I could see well marked the Camino sign, but it was across like a four or five lane road with no crosswalk. And so I'm like, I don't know how to get in there. And at this point, my other pilgrim, Seth was like way behind me or like off to the side or whatever, cause I'd been running. And then I just had to turn and look and it was like, okay, I need to crosswalk that road to crosswalk that road to crosswalk that, you know?
[00:16:56] And so we get in there and we walk into the city. We're both tired. Uh, it has been a pilgrimage with all the group and individual form, norm, storm, reform, breakup, Ness.
[00:17:19] And, um, we, you had told us when the mass was and that we could go, I'm not Catholic. I did not know what to expect. I've never been in a cathedral. Um, I didn't know that. Yeah, girl. Wow. Yeah. And, um, we got there and got in the cathedral and, um, it was packed.
[00:17:50] And so we split up to find seats and I went over here and he went over there and then he came over here and he said, I've got us a seat over there. And I'm like, okay, well, I've got us a seat right here and you can see it was a front looking one. So we can see all the gilded stuff is amazing. And then he goes, he's like, okay, I'll go get my stuff. So he goes back and then he comes back and he's like, actually, I think if we go sit where I sit, we'll see the incense balls. I'm like, okay. So I go over there and then we sit.
[00:18:20] And, um, for the most part, um, everything we're hearing is in Spanish. They do a couple of English translations, but everything we hear is in Spanish. And I'm sitting there on the pew and all of a sudden, like the fatigue sets in and the permission and invitation to really rest, like really rest.
[00:18:45] Like from the whole year with mom, from the whole trauma 40 years ago, from the whole, like from everything. I just felt such an invitation to rest in that sanctuary. And so, uh, my friend Seth and I are sitting there kind of like, I think we're both in kind of an all ish stupor, honestly.
[00:19:10] And, um, all of a sudden I'm so empty headed. Like there's no thoughts. There's no streaming dialogue. There's no, you know, complaints. There's no creating. Cause a lot of times, because I'm a creative, I'll think about like, oh God, this would be great to share or this would, you know, none of that.
[00:19:36] And, um, I had some real moments of gratitude for God. I remember looking up at the ceiling and moments of gratitude for Jesus and for the apostles and the early church and how they spread themselves out to spread their own belief.
[00:19:58] And I had an overwhelming sense of forgiveness for the church and how we have all of us humans kind of messed it up royally. And, um, I think, uh, the other really, really big sense I got was like, you can trust you. You can trust God. Yeah. Yeah. And you can trust you and you can rest.
[00:20:28] That's beautiful. Yeah, it really was beautiful. And then they did some of the sermon in English and, um, they offered communion. And I know that as a non-Catholic, I was probably, um, not supposed to go. And also I had this overwhelming, um, sense of surety that that was meant for me. Yeah.
[00:20:57] And so I got, I went and got my communion and, and that for me was like, there's no question of my worthiness. Go get your Scooby snack. You know, so we did that. And, um, this service ended with the, uh, English speaker saying like, you know, your job
[00:21:20] as pilgrims, you've come here and now it's to go out and spread the word and spread love to all people. And I could get down with that. So Seth and I just sat there and they played the, the, oh my gosh, uh, the organ got me hearing that music because, you know, mom was an organist and just the memory of that. It's beautiful that those two pilgrims just get drawn together in that moment. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy.
[00:21:50] And so, um, uh, we sat there and like the cathedral is emptying out and there are people going to sign up to get into the, what the tomb, St. James tomb and see St. Jack, you know, all that stuff. Yeah. And, um, literally like they're like little, two little knots on a log. Um, and finally, uh, I think I had laid my head on his shoulder and, and rested, you know, it felt good to, to rest.
[00:22:21] Yeah. And then finally we were like, okay, well, okay. You know, and then y'all were in the square and we came to see you and there were pictures and there was talk of dinner and then going back to the seven 30 and I was like, I'm complete. Mm-hmm. I was so, um, so grounded, so sturdy.
[00:22:48] So like I, I have come and you know, my intention was to have a spiritual experience. Then my intention was to get out of town. Then my intention was to be open. Um, then my intention was to get out of pain. Mm-hmm. Then my intention probably was to play. And, um, all of those came true and I was complete. Yeah.
[00:23:13] And so I took myself for a massive lasagna and I think I ordered three dishes and they were like, that's a lot of food. And I'm like, yes. And I got, I got, I got the lasagna, the, I think it was like the pumpkin ravioli. Holy mackerel. That was good. And something else, I don't know, probably a pizza and, um, split that between an early dinner and a later dinner and tucked myself in and that was that. It's all y'all for breakfast.
[00:23:43] Yeah. And then I actually, I've had, I've had this old pattern that I've been kind of dealing with, with letting things go and not wanting to let them go. Yeah. And I'd collected these things when we were at one of the hotels that, um, that were kind of special to me. And when I got there, I realized that actually that wasn't what I needed to keep. Yeah. And I needed to let go of that.
[00:24:11] So I did go back into the square by myself and laid all of those things that I'd collected out right in the middle of the square on all four corners and one in the middle. And just like, let that go. Yeah. And it did. It felt like, and I could feel, okay, if you don't love the woo woo, sorry, but I could feel that in my body just like, ah, we've put that down. There's no indecision. There's no self doubt.
[00:24:39] It's a lot of trust, a lot of rest. Yeah. So that was my last day. Pilgrimage worked its magic on you. Oh, there was a lot of magic. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of magic. So you, you, you mentioned that I should share going into Santiago. Well, yeah, because I knew you'd have that really powerful experience and not everyone has the experience that you did where you, you walked really hard and got there just as the service was beginning. For many people, there's like a, a period of time.
[00:25:08] So you, your body was actually physically exhausted at that moment. And we probably, we were like 15 minutes before the service started. Yeah. So you, you know, you've got all that physical adrenaline and I knew it had been a powerful experience. I just wanted you to share that because that was kind of a, I mean, for me, the pilgrimage is, is about getting to Santiago, but it's about so much more than that. It's the journey. It's not the destination anymore because all the pilgrimages begin to build upon each other
[00:25:36] and the destination becomes less important than the journey itself. And, um, and so, yeah. I tell you what, I really, uh, struggled that first week home and I'm still kind of. I was going to ask you that. What, how has it been coming back? Because that's the, I mean, the pilgrimage goes on, right? And the second, the, whatever part of the pilgrimage is the after pilgrimage. And sometimes there's a, like a little depression or some confusion or a letdown because you've
[00:26:04] been doing something very intentionally, intensely. And then you shift gears. You go back into life. It does feel, um, it was hard. Yeah. And, uh, you know, me, I mean, I'm all about sustainability, right? Like let's not go doing something and then be like, Oh, that was fun. Yeah. Back to normal. Yeah. What can I take from that? And, and have it actually continue on in my life and not just, uh, you know, Oh, that was great. It was on retreat, but how's it going to change my life? Yeah.
[00:26:32] Like we don't want to like what stays in Vegas happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas. We don't want that. Yeah. I want to bring it back. And, um, I felt a lot of things. One, uh, I missed being a part of a group. Yeah. Being at home by myself. Um, I love my alone time. And also I didn't have a bedmate anymore. Where was Leslie? Yeah. And you didn't have people you could talk to all day long on the trail. Yeah. Or completely ignore, but they're there. They're there. Yeah.
[00:27:02] Because there's something about the presence that's powerful. Yes. Yes. Um, and an intimate presence, a vulnerable presence too. So that was challenging. Um, just the time zone thing was challenging, but most of all, it was like, especially after I completed my journey, my head felt so high up in the ether. Yeah.
[00:27:27] That my, it was like one of my big toes might be scratching the ground, but I didn't want to come out of there. Yeah. Yeah. It felt good to be up there. And yet, you know, like bills have to get paid and, um, the litter box needs to be scooped. And, you know, there are things that I, I want to be responsible for. Yeah.
[00:27:50] I just want to keep the lessons I learned so handy that I don't have to, you know, go through doing something really dumb for four days before I remember like, oh yeah, I learned this lesson, you know? So, um, sometimes you, you have to do that though. Yeah. I mean, we are human and, and I mean, my own experience is that the, the more of those,
[00:28:16] um, the more I understand who I am and the more I'm at peace with who I am and the more I experienced the divine around me all the time. Um, I know I'm still going to stumble. I'm still going to fall. I'm still going to, there's some patterns that are just so deeply embedded in me that, that I want to believe that it's a spiral and that learning is going deeper and deeper and deeper, even though sometimes it feels like it's the exact same learning. Those core things that, you know, we, we wrestle with, um, it's just part of who we are
[00:28:44] and learning to, I don't know. I do think the more opportunities you create and hold to confront those patterns. Yeah. You, I think progress is, um, waiting for you. Well, yeah. I mean, for me, the progress is the interior journey. Yeah, for sure. It just goes deeper and deeper and deeper on the surface. It might look like I'm struggling with the same thing, but I know I'm actually struggling on a deeper level. Yeah.
[00:29:11] That, um, and I mean, that's can be one of the other challenges of a pilgrimage, right? You get home, you've had this amazing experience. I mean, we've had this gift of being able to talk about it for an hour and a half, but normally people say, Hey, how's your trip? And you're like, I'm like, and I just wanted to see a picture of the cathedral. Yeah. Right. Because it's really hard to talk about. I was almost like, um, or you don't want to talk about it at all because it's too tender. Not even too tender, but like, uh, I think I just wrote in the newsletter, like it was an everything bagel.
[00:29:39] Like it had all the tastes on there somehow. Like it works to have a sesame seed and like garlic, but I don't know. That is a perfect description of a pilgrimage. It's an everything bagel. It's an everything bagel. And there are days that are great, there are days that are hard. I almost didn't want to sully it by talking about it because it's kind of unexplainable and it is tender and it's kind of like right there. And, um, yeah, it's, and I reached out to a couple of pilgrims and like, Hey, anybody else having a hard time with this?
[00:30:08] And they were like, call Carla. Yes. Call Carla. So I really appreciate the guidance. I I'm, I'm glad that there are people in the world who are doing what you do and helping people create this time, you know? Well, I'm glad you came on the pilgrimage. Shit. Me too. Yeah. It was great. Yeah. Any, okay. Anything else that people really have to know. We're at 30 minutes, but they're, they're loving it. They're glued to their seats. Are they? They haven't turned off. They're like, Oh my gosh. Oh my God.
[00:30:37] Anything else that we just have to put into the universe about the, our personal trips. I would just say you don't have to go to the Camino to go on a pilgrimage. You can, and it's beautiful. And, uh, here in North Carolina, we live in a beautiful part of the world and you can go on a pilgrimage anywhere. And originally the idea of walking to Santiago was, uh, and so the shell is the, the symbol of it.
[00:31:05] And that's because you would just walk out of your front door and you would walk to the cathedral and whatever way you could go to get there. And there wasn't just one way to go. And so a pilgrimage can be anywhere. I mean, you took a pilgrimage with your mom on her journey and it can be a walk in your backyard. It could be a camping trip. It's the intentionality that you bring to it that I'm going to, I'm going to try to wake up because that's the other thing that's happening in a pilgrimage because our minds are on automatic pilot all the time.
[00:31:32] They have to be, there's not enough brain cells otherwise, but when we do something new, we get, we wake up and that's part of it. And so any chance you can get to wake up, go just do something different. You'll wake up a little bit. I love that. We're going to wrap right there. Okay. Um, it just, you're so welcome. No, thank you. It's been a blast. Um, wake up if you're sleeping, we're waiting for you out here. If you need help with that, that's kind of my job.
[00:32:01] And actually Carla's job too. So, yeah. Um, we'll see you in July on Healthy AF. Thanks for being with us. Bye. Thanks for hanging out with me today on Healthy AF. I hope something you heard helps you take one small kind step toward your healthiest self. If you love this episode, hit subscribe so you never miss a conversation.
[00:32:25] And if you want more support, head over to myhealthylife.coach to connect with me. Remember, you don't have to do it perfectly. You just have to start choosing you. See you next time.
[00:32:49] You've been listening to The Mesh, an online media network of shows and programs ranging from business to arts, sports to entertainment, music to community. All programs are available on the website as well as through iTunes and YouTube. Check us out online at themesh.tv. Discover other network shows and give us feedback on what you just heard.