The Miracle of the Two Old Men: What Happens When You Walk With Your Spiritual Lenses On

[00:00:02] What You Want, When You Want It, Where You Want It. This is The MESH. Hey everybody, I'm Amy Chang, a nurse, a mom and a health coach, and this is Healthy AF, where honesty and humor and heart meet real talk about feeling good again, inside and out. We're cutting through the noise, dropping the guilt, and reminding you, getting healthy isn't about perfection.

[00:00:30] It's about choosing yourself, one loving decision at a time. Let's get into it. Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Healthy AF. My name is Amy Chang and I'm a health coach here with Healthy Life Health and Wellness Coaching. This is the second episode in June and I'm delighted to be here with my friend Carla Wogan. And we are talking all things pilgrimages and specifically about our trip that we just went to the Camino.

[00:00:57] Now, if you haven't listened to the first episode in June, you don't need to, but it might flow a little bit better for you if you rewind the tape, go back and listen to that first episode. We are launching into this second episode with the cliffhanger. What was it like for you, Amy? Tell us your story. We left off talking about intentions. Yeah.

[00:01:27] And I shared that I had an intention about a month before we left just to get out of my life, stop taking care of people and be by myself. That was my goal for the pilgrimage. And then about a month before, I mean, shortly before we left, it was like, well, no, I actually really do want to open up my spiritual experience, inject a little bit of energy into that. And you asked me a really brilliant question.

[00:01:55] Yeah. So the question is, you had an intention two years ago when you first thought it up, and then an intention a year ago when you actually signed up. And in my opinion, once you buy your plane ticket or you put your deposit down, then you're going and that's when the pilgrimage starts. And so your pilgrimage started a year ago, and then your intention changed a little bit about a month in. And then so I'm curious, having gone and been on the pilgrimage, how that intention grew, changed, stayed the same, morphed? What happened?

[00:02:25] Yeah. Wow. Wow. I'm glad you went back that far. Because like, yeah, it really, it really shifted a lot, actually. And I say the same thing to people, by the way, when I do a free consult. Yeah. And they've decided to enter into health coaching. I have them right then go to the link, click the link and make the first payment. And then we schedule the first appointment, because that is. Yeah, they start right then. Yeah, that is the, you know, you've taken an action. Right.

[00:02:55] When the money has exchanged hands and the ink is dry, you're in it. Right. You know, and that is such a powerful place to be. I think that when my money had exchanged hands and I'd signed on the dotted line, you know, a year before we left, and I was still kind of in the midst of all of mom's health concerns and, and a lot of really stressful things and unknown and trying to control stuff and then give up control of stuff. And then, you know, like really on the struggle bus.

[00:03:25] Yeah. And I was so hopeful. And I was like, I get to go on the, I'm going on the Camino. Yeah. Hey, hey, by the way, everybody, I'm going on the Camino. They're like, when you go on, I'm like eight months. I'm like, I'm going. But I am going. There's hope on the horizon. Yeah.

[00:03:39] You know, and it almost became, there were times I was scared, like, I shouldn't be going because I'm not feeling very effing spiritual right now, you know, or I'm too busy or this really isn't a good time. Um, and there were also times where I just felt so desperate.

[00:04:02] Like, no, I just really need to push the eject button from my life right now because it is way too much and I'm not having fun. Yeah. Um, and then I think just being able to say that to you, like, I just, I just want to be not responsible for my life or anyone else's life. And you having the space for like, okay, that's fine. Yeah. Gave me some more space to stop pushing against that because I was feeling guilty about it. Hmm.

[00:04:33] You know, you had given us the journals to write in pre, you know, post money, pre trip. Right. So in the, in the pre pilgrimage part of the pilgrimage, you'd given us the journal and the prompts and the one prompt. I looked at a few and it was funny because I read them and I'm like, nope, I'm not thinking about that right now. Nope. I'm not so confronted. Oh, so confronted. Yeah. Just the whole thing.

[00:05:02] And like, this is not news to me, right? This is the world that I work in all the time. We start talking about, Hey, let's look at yourself honestly and make changes. That's confronting. Yeah. And I've been in enough transformative programs in the last decade and had enough changes in my life circumstances.

[00:05:23] Some of them desired, some of them really not desired that I've had a lot of opportunity to go like, oh, this is me being confronted. Um, but I hadn't even thought about it in that way until just now. Like there were some of those prompts. I'm like, nope. And the one prompt I would answer is like, what's your intention? And I'm like to get out of here. And then I was like, oh man, Amy, that stinks. You just paid this money.

[00:05:52] You're going on this trip. You know, you thought you were going to like open up to God, blah, blah, blah. And now you're like, get me out of here and just having the space to say that. And for you to be like, that's okay. Um, then I could accept it a little bit more and it could move through a little bit more and the door could open just a smidge. Like, well, maybe there is something else I could get. Right. Other than just an escape hatch.

[00:06:22] Well, if you don't start where you are, you're not actually ever going to start. No. So that's where you were. Or yeah, it really was. And so, yeah, you got to start there. And all the progress you made is really fake progress. Right. Unless you really start where you're at. Right. Yeah. So where you were was I need to get out of town. Well, thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. That was super helpful. And then I think, um, right before we left, I was like, you know, I really am open. And I think we talked on that call too about what was I expecting.

[00:06:51] Mm hmm. And still people. Okay. I've had two people in the last week ask me, where did you fly into? And I'm like, I don't know. That is beautiful. I don't really know where I went. I think I was in Portugal, but I'm not certain. I don't. I don't know. You flew into Madrid. Did I? And then you took another flight to Porto. Straight to Porto. Straight to Porto.

[00:07:18] I remembered the cab and I didn't think I flew into Lisbon, but I remembered there was some mention of Lisbon. You did not go to Lisbon. Nope. Your roommate flew into Lisbon. Okay. Okay. Great. Yeah. And so like purposefully. Yeah. Like, I don't want to sound like an idiot. All right. It was purposeful. But you didn't have to pay attention to those details. That I didn't want. Somebody else was. Yeah. I didn't. I wanted to show up. Yeah. And be open. And that was all I wanted to do.

[00:07:44] And you and I talking about those expectations were good, too, because I remember that conversation and I'm like, Carla, you know, I've been at this transformative work long enough that I know if you think you are expecting some big transformation, likely you're sabotaging yourself. Right. You know, it's not authentic. You're not allowing. You're not spacious. You're actually limiting. And so I didn't want to know that.

[00:08:13] And I didn't want to do a lot of research about where we were going and what we could expect to see on those cities and what we were going to be eating and what we got. I just I felt like I wanted to just be an open baby eyed. Like, oh, we're going here now. OK. It's actually a wonderful part of a pilgrimage. And in our world, it gets harder and harder to do that because right here you can get everything you ever wanted to know at your fingertips. But there's delight in being open to wonder and getting lost.

[00:08:43] And oh, I don't need to look up what the best restaurant to eat is. I can just wander in somewhere and eat. And maybe I like it. Maybe I don't. But there's something about just being open to the unexpected and exploring. That's really wonderful. You know, we don't let ourselves do that much. Yeah, we don't really. Because we have somebody tells us what's best and we want to go do that as opposed to letting it unfold in the way it unfolds. So you unfolded. Oh, girl, I unfolded. You flew from Wilmington to Charlotte. To somewhere.

[00:09:10] We flew back over Wilmington and then we flew over Porto to Madrid. And then we got on another plane and flew back to Porto, which was all part of the pilgrimage. Right. And then from there, after the trains and buses, then we did the walking. Yeah. Yeah. So the question was, when you got there, how did the intention change once you were, as you were walking and now that you're back a couple of weeks? As I was walking, what was my intention? What was your experience?

[00:09:40] This is going to get me all. OK. Yeah. Yeah. My experience was being open. My experience was tender. Because when you open up for stuff, stuff can come up and stuff can come in.

[00:10:03] And so there was an experience of stuff coming up that I couldn't even name that was unexpected. And there was also an experience of stuff coming in. Like what came up physically or I developed blisters that were horrible. Yeah. Yeah. What came in was literally having someone, you, care for my feet while we're on the road.

[00:10:35] Yeah. I'm in the month of June. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if we can cover the whole Camino in March of June, honestly.

[00:11:06] Yeah. Yeah. I can tell you that later if you really want to know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll tackle that one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:49] You can tell us about what we're in. Yeah. Yeah. And then when we're in, it's the last, the year I was talking to you and I we're talking about the first two days at camp.

[00:12:16] very distinctly and having those conversations and all of that was authentic and all that was vulnerable. We had, um, conversation, I had conversations with people on the group and off the group. Remember that time I walked into the swamp cause I was talking to that Dutch lady. I had to run to catch you. Do you remember that when I misled the group into the swamp? Good times, you know? Um, yeah. So yeah. Cause you found a new friend, which is also a joy, right? You just wander up to people you don't know and you're both in a vulnerable place and

[00:12:46] she's telling you normally wouldn't stories that wouldn't happen if you ran to someone. Yeah. Yeah. Actually I was talking about how upset I was about our country and got super emotional telling this Dutch woman about that. And then she opens up and says, uh, she's on her pilgrimage by herself because her sister died in January, you know? And so, yeah, it was a great, um, conversation and very comforting and loving and vulnerable. And we ended up in a swamp. She moved on and I got called back and then we had communion and all things were good. All things were good.

[00:13:16] But, um, yeah. So it was like, I did all that and then the blisters happened. And, um, so my intention, you know, on whatever day that this is where I get like foggy, I can't remember which day was what it was the 17 mile day that we thought was going to be like a 14 mile day, but it was a 17 mile day. And my blisters began that day. And like, I didn't even remember until

[00:13:45] a couple of days ago that I walked in my socks that day. You did. Yes, you did. You took off your shoes and walked in your socks. I took off my shoes and walked in my socks. Like I did everything I could to stay on that walk, even though we were in the city and I could have called a cab. Right. Cause that's the point. So I just kept going, which was fine. And I also noticed about that day. Um, that was the first time

[00:14:13] that I got out my phone and check the map because I was done. So my intention that day was like, I don't care what I have to do. I'm getting in that hotel like as fast as I can get there. Yeah. And, and I did, I wasn't, I wasn't super open to anything that day besides like,

[00:14:37] get me to that hotel. And I, I didn't notice sounds. Uh, I didn't have a lot of conversations. Uh, you know, it was, I had one and it, it, when you put on that spiritual lens and you look at that and it's whole, like, yeah, man, when you're in pain, whether that's because you've got some toxic, um, relationships or your back is killing you or, you know, whatever it is,

[00:15:05] you are not open for anything other than get me to the next survival point, you know? So my intent that day was like, Oh, so angry, so angry and fix it. Like this needs to be fixed. My legs hurt. My feet hurt. It needs to be fixed right now. And then I don't know if that next day was the day

[00:15:30] that I rested or not. Like that was the next day that I rested. And, um, then of course, when I rested, some things came up. Yeah. So those things were coming up as you were walking. Yeah. I remember that, but they were coming up and that's probably the first half of the day you were actually open and reflecting deeply on your life and maybe just got to be too much. And so then you were just like, I just, I just need to get somewhere. I can get off my feet and stop thinking.

[00:15:59] Um, thank you for remembering that. Yeah. So for those of you, things came up actually. So for those of you who were not on the trip, um, Carla's husband, who was one of the oldest, the oldest, the oldest one of us there stays in the front cause he walks really fast, really fast, really fast. He could keep up with Amy Chang when he wanted to. Let me tell you, there was one time he caught me when again, I was possibly going in a wrong direction or almost going in a wrong direction. Maybe I'd gone past the point we were supposed to

[00:16:28] stop and I could hear him behind me. And I thought, I thought someone, I knew if somebody was coming behind me and I could hear his steps, but the thing I could hear the most was his breathing. He's like, and he called up to me. He's stop. And I was like, Oh, okay. Sorry, my bad.

[00:16:51] But that was in a happier day. So, um, yeah, some things were coming up and I guess I was sort of chewing on them a little bit and then it got real, real. Yeah. And it was hard. So, so Carla, I'm sorry. I was going to say Steve's in the front booking it. Carla's in the back

[00:17:14] and she's like hanging out and just like there for anybody who has something coming up, whether it's like, I think I've got a toe blister or I really need to pee and I don't want to cop a squat in the woods or wow. This really traumatic year of my life is what's happened to me. This really super traumatic, very early life experience came up. And, um, you know, I've, I've dealt with that and

[00:17:41] I've healed it for 30, let me do my math right. Is it 40 years? Almost 40 years. Yeah. Almost 40 years. But there were so many little things that happened in that three month period that what I thought was coming up was all the stuff that I dealt with before. And I'm like, well, I know this happened and I feel this way and this happened and I feel that way.

[00:18:05] But then there was an aspect that I'd never looked at and who knew, I mean, with everything that's happened with my mom and the end of my marriage and moves and grown, you know, children who are teenage years going to twenties, there's a lot that has happened in the last decade that

[00:18:26] I could have addressed. But what came up was 40 years ago. It was, uh, unexpected, very unexpected. Yeah. Yeah. And so then my intention was really to, um, address what was coming up in a loving way and be open to what that looked like. Yeah. Yeah. And you did that in a loving way.

[00:18:53] And can I say a little bit about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so the next day then you decided, so, uh, you, you powered through at the end, you don't even remember what happened at the beginning, but the beginning you were really dealing with this, uh, in a very tender, loving way with yourself. And then you powered through to get there, get off my feet, get out of the heat. And, um, and the next day we started walking again and your feet were still really hurting. Um, and you're like, I, I don't know if I want to go or don't go. And, uh, and I was like, well, you know,

[00:19:23] you stayed. Yes, it's okay. If you just take a day and rest. And I, I guess for you, that was harder to do because you're, you're the super athlete in the group. You're the fittest of the group and you're out front leading. And for you to say, no, I'm going to take a day of rest was probably the best thing you could have done for someone else. It might've been to push through because that would have been the greater challenge for them. But for you, the important challenge was, can I rest? Can I let myself rest and, and deal with this little tender part that was coming up?

[00:19:53] And you did, you stayed home. I turned my butt around and you found your way back to the hotel and you rested for the day. Yeah. We, I think we were about 15 minutes in. We were, and I was like, it took me 30 minutes to get to hobble home. Yeah. And, and, and the old, the old pattern. Yeah. Something different. Yeah. Even in that very traumatic few months period

[00:20:18] when I was 15 was push through. Yeah. Don't say anything. Yeah. Don't stop. Don't let anybody see anything. Yeah. Just. Yeah. Turn through. Yeah. And that's how I lived most of my life. Yeah. And so for me, I remember saying to you when I was trying to decide when, like, I'm hobbling with you in the back and I'm so slow that the front keeps getting further and further and further and

[00:20:47] further away from us. And that wasn't really in my mind. Cause I think I was being pretty selfish in a good way at that time. I wasn't like, Oh no, we've got to keep it. Oh no. Oh no. I'm causing this group to go slow. I didn't care about any of y'all. I need to figure out what I'm doing for me. And, um, I can remember thinking to myself and then saying to you, I will not live like this.

[00:21:14] I've done it and I'm not doing it. I am better than this. And I, I think for me, I have spent the last like decade or so healing some really big things up and changing some patterns. But some of those patterns are changed in my noggin, but I haven't had an opportunity to put those beliefs

[00:21:36] into action. Yeah. And the pilgrimage provided me an opportunity where it was like, okay, you keep saying that you're not going to do this anymore. Yeah. Now it's your chance to try it. Yeah. It's your moment to not do that thing. Yeah. Right. And, um, I did, I went back to the hotel, uh, got in bed,

[00:22:01] slept for about three hours, did not want to get up still. And, um, thank God the maid like knocked on the door like three times on the third time she was like, Oh, I'm sorry. I'm like, no, no, please, please come in, come in, please come in. Cause I need to get up. Right. Cause we're still on jet lag at that time. So your body's not sleeping, right? No, that's part of it. And you know what? It's funny because my body had not slept right since the end of February. Now we're on this. Yeah.

[00:22:28] We're on this journey. Uh, what, when did we start walking? April 24th ish. 25th, I think was the first day we started to walk. Yeah. So like from that whole time, which was basically the time that mom moved. Yeah. I, my sleep had been so jacked and, um, I had not rested well. So you, you really were simultaneously on two pilgrimages. So just at the time that you said, I want to sign up to go on

[00:22:56] the Camino. Yeah. That's when you're right about the exact same time your mom, everything else changes. And so you, you, you took that pilgrimage with your mom while you were preparing for this other one. So it's not surprising that your body needed to rest. Even if this older memory hadn't come up, you, it's been a really long journey for you this year. It's been a tough one. Yeah. It's been a tough one. And, and part of the reason to take the external pilgrimage to places like the Camino

[00:23:24] is so that you, um, I mean, it can be to make you, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't prevent the other pilgrimages from happening, but you're, you're, you're, you're more present to them because you have done this other hard thing that you can be open to. Yeah. Move some stuff out of the way. Yeah. You learn all the things you're not in control of. And, um, yeah. Well, the one thing

[00:23:49] I was in control of that day was I slept, I stayed horizontal in my bed, reading my book. Yeah. I took myself for a pizza. You did. I ate the pizza again for supper. Cause you know, I was having supper at five 30. So I get in bed. Sun was still up in Portugal. I was like night, night for Amy Chang. Yeah. This girl gets her sleep. And, um, he did teach the rest of us about the importance

[00:24:14] of rest and pooping in the morning before you got in the morning. Many, many, many health things. Yes. Many health things. Yeah. So you also cared for my feet on that long day. Um, and actually I think it was the long day where the, um, where the old man, um, was that the day? I do think that was at the beginning of the long day. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that's another story. We're going

[00:24:41] to wrap right there. Okay. And we will start with the story. It's really the miracle. Can we just call it my miracle too? And I know it was that day because it got me through that day. Cause it was a really hard day for me too. Okay. So let's start with the miracle of the two old men. Okay. Yeah. Next week. Okay. Okay. We'll see you then on healthy AF. Thanks for hanging out with me today on healthy AF. I hope something you heard helps you take

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