#GroupDynamics #PilgrimageLessons #LeadershipLessons #CaminoDeSantiago #SpiritualGrowth #WalkingTogether #SelfDiscovery #SoulSauntering #CommunityAndConnection #PersonalGrowth
[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The MESH. Hey everybody, I'm Amy Chang, a nurse, a mom and a health coach, and this is Healthy AF, where honesty and humor and heart meet real talk about feeling good again, inside and out.
[00:00:23] We're cutting through the noise, dropping the guilt, and reminding you, getting healthy isn't about perfection. It's about choosing yourself. One loving decision at a time. Let's get into it. Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of Healthy AF. My name is Amy Chang, and I'm a health coach here with Healthy Life Health and Wellness Coaching. And I'm delighted to be in our third week of June, where I'm getting to spend some time with my friend, Carla.
[00:00:51] And we're getting to discuss our experience on the Camino and all pilgrimages in general. So we left you hanging last week with the miracle, two old man miracle? The story of the two old men, the miracle of the two old men, something. Two old men and a miracle. Two old men and a miracle. I like it. There we go.
[00:01:14] Okay, so to catch you back up, we're talking about intentionality on the Camino, on any pilgrimage really, how mine shifted and morphed and changed and went nuts. And being open to the unexpected. Yeah, being open to the unexpected. Yeah, that's a good one. The miracle is the unexpected here. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Okay, so do you want to start telling the story of the morning? Sure. Okay, great. Because I think you don't remember part of the morning.
[00:01:44] I don't remember part of the morning, which is fun. So this was our longest day. We were hiking from somewhere to Vigo. And we started in a castle. And we were walking out of the castle and it was a long day. It was going to be 14 miles, ended up being about 17. And we walked along the coast. We walked across a nude beach. Oh yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, actually it was just a topless beach that we walked across. We walked beside the nude beaches.
[00:02:13] Oh, beside the nude beaches. And we walked in and out of towns. Had we had time to stop, this girl would have been a buck down there. She would have been. I would not have been. So anyway, at the beginning of the day, your feet were already hurting. And as your feet were hurting, some of your memories of your life were coming up and we were talking about them. And you were walking really slow. Earlier in the week, you'd been leading the pack, charging up front. And this day you were walking in the back. We talked for a while and then you just said, I just want to walk slow on my own.
[00:02:44] And so you had fallen behind the group. I think maybe you had stopped to take your shoes off. And this is when you'd started to walk barefoot, but I'm not sure. Um, anyway, and then why don't you tell the story of what happened then? You were walking behind the rest of the group. Yeah, so I remember, um, this was before the blisters happened. But your feet were already really hurting. But the, my right arch was killing me. Yeah.
[00:03:08] And I did all the things, uh, stopped and untied my shoe, stretched it, rubbed it, put my shoe back on, made it tight, made it loose, you know, like all the things. And it was really bumming me out. And I didn't think that I could finish. I didn't, I thought that that might be the day I have to drive, uh, uh, pull a taxi. Because, um, and that day I was thinking about like, oh my gosh, like I'm really slowing them down.
[00:03:37] And I'm having those thoughts. Oh gosh, man. Uh, the rest of our group is now going to get to hear some of my internal dialogue while we were doing those days. Um, on the fast days, I like being up front. No kidding. I do. Right. In all kinds of metaphorical ways. Right. And, um, You're very physically fit and that's probably part of your identity. Yeah.
[00:04:02] Well, I like to be up front too because, um, as extroverted as I am and as connected as I like to be to people. Yeah. When you're in the front, you're by yourself. Huh. It's a little safer. In the back you are too. Mm hmm. Yep. Interesting. And in, yes. And that's shown up in my life in different ways with different groups. I'm either in the front or I'm in the back, but I'm not often in the middle. And, um, sometimes I think I'm probably a little bit more introverted.
[00:04:32] Then I think I am and I need the space. Yeah. Um, and stubborn and, uh, you know, maybe I just want to do what I want to do when I want to do it. Really? Huh. Huh. Yeah. Okay. It took me a pilgrimage to figure that out. Could you have told me that? You know, things you learn on your own, they go so much deeper than if anyone else ever tells you. Yeah. If you have to experience it for yourself, then it's a real learning and you can claim
[00:05:02] it. And then you can't just say, well, that's just them. Right. That's their crap. Not mine. No, you can't argue with it. It becomes truth. It becomes truth. And you realize maybe that's who I want to be. Maybe that's not. And some of the things you're like, yeah, that's who I am. And I'm perfectly happy. I, I'm going to go to bed at seven 30 every night. And cause I asked you, I was like, Amy, what would you do if you actually lived in Spain and where they eat at eight 30? And you're like, I would have my last meal at eight 30. I'd still be in bed at seven 30. I'm like, okay, clear. Yeah. No guilt about that. Anyway, so you're at the back of the bus. So I'm at the back of the bus and I'm having the thoughts. Your feet aren't hurting.
[00:05:32] My foot is killing me. It's really hard for me to continue on. And I'm having these thoughts of like, okay, for the last three days, I've been a little annoyed that the back of the bus is so small, so slow and I'm having to like wait and I'm managing my annoyance. Thankfully, I have some skills to not take myself too seriously. Right. But I notice that I'm having to wait and I don't always want to wait. It's not what I want to do when I want to do it that way I want to do it. Yeah.
[00:06:01] So now I'm that person. And so now I'm having some ego popping up that not only does my foot hurt, and I really do not know if I can continue, but also like now I feel like I'm dragging y'all down and I don't like that. So I'm walking through this city where, and it was, it was hard ground. We weren't on trail. It was through the city. It was through the city. Yeah. And you know, most of the people, um, on the boardwalk that was near the beach, I think
[00:06:31] at that point. Yeah. Yeah. And I seem to recall it was maybe even like one of those tiled. I think so. Yeah. It was hard. It was hard surface. And, um, you know, when you're walking the Camino, everybody who lives there as locals, um, they will frequently say Bon Camino, which means the good, good, good, good. Yeah. Good Camino. It's sweet. It's just their way of saying, um, I'm sending my energy to you as you do this trip. It was lovely. Yeah.
[00:07:00] And so I see this older dude and he's got on this little cap and I'm hobbling and I probably have the pain face. And he says, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but nowhere in there was Bon Camino. Like I thought that he was gonna la la la la la Bon Camino. And because he didn't say that, I looked at him and I was like, I'm sorry, English.
[00:07:25] And he looks at me for a minute and then he just looks straight at my face and blows me a kiss. Mm hmm. And at that moment it was like, I just stopped taking myself so seriously. Mm hmm. And I could, I didn't understand it at the time, but what I did know is the next step I took didn't hurt. Yeah. And that foot didn't hurt for the rest of the trip. Right.
[00:07:54] So I catch up to y'all and we get to where we're going to have lunch, which for me is always a scavenger hunt for any croissant I can find. Mm hmm. I think that may have been one of the days I found the croissants and they were as big as your head and I was so happy. And then they were covered in sugar and I couldn't eat them. I ate it because he gave it to me and I ate it. Yeah, it was good, but not for me. Yes. So, um, and then I told you about that. Well, yeah. So actually, so what happened is right after, right after your encounter with the man,
[00:08:20] you caught up to me and I was at the back of the group and, and you told me the story and it was such an amazing story. It felt so holy to me. And the way you told the story, it felt like, you know, the divine God, Jesus, the holy holy had shown up for you and blown you a kiss. And you took that in and there was trail magic and there was healing. Maybe because you figured out how to walk different or maybe because you took yourself less seriously. You know, I'm miracles are all kinds of things, right? Mm hmm.
[00:08:50] So something happened in your foot that you thought was going to stop you didn't stop you. Mm hmm. And, uh, and you told me the story and then you walked on ahead and I kept thinking about the stories I was walking. And just as we were getting to the part where we were going to stop for like a, it was actually not lunch, just a break. Mm hmm. And we were, we were in, in town at that point and my blisters were starting to hurt. And, uh, and I was thinking about them and, um, trying to channel my pain into the earth and let the earth hold it for me.
[00:09:19] And then I noticed out of the corner of my eye, there was an old man sitting in a car. And because you had told me the story, I looked in his eyes, otherwise I would not have looked in his eyes, but I looked in his eyes because of your story. And he said to me, which I'm not going to remember the exact word, but it was something, it must be a phrase that they say in Portugal and Spain, something, uh, about your heart, which is, which is be of good heart, be of good cheer, let your heart carry you something like that.
[00:09:46] And, uh, and I just felt so blessed in that moment. Like the divine had shown up for me and given me the courage I need. So I walked with that mantra for the rest of the day when my feet hurt. And, um, what, so. Yeah. That is so, uh, this miracle of the two old men and the synergy that happens when you're on a spiritual journey with your spiritual lenses on and everyone else has their spiritual lenses on and then you're sharing what you're seeing. How many other times might that happen in my life?
[00:10:15] And I don't notice because I don't turn to look someone in the eyes, a stranger in a car in a foreign country, right? When your heels hurt, when your heels hurt and you don't expect to be blessed. And you just want a snack and a compete. And then we sat down like instantly and you brought me the croissant and like, I can't eat this cause it's covered in sugar. And I was like, well, I shouldn't, but I will. Great. Thank you very much. Fabulous. Yeah. And then the people who were with me knew enough Spanish to tell me what the man had said to me. Yeah. Which was, um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:44] So, I mean, those, uh, if we come back to intention, what was your intention while you were leading the group that, I mean, to be fair, like we hired you to lead the group that you, I mean, that was sure. That's what I was. That's your job. The guide. Yeah. You're the guide. So you're guiding your heels are killing you. Yeah. And what was your intention? Well, so I was, I was rereading that book. I was telling you about the walking and wisdom.
[00:11:12] I picked it up out of my library as I was walking out the door. I don't even know why I picked it up, but I did. So I read it on the airplane. I'd really forgotten a lot of the book. It was his experience of leading a pilgrimage in Ireland, right before his 60th birthday. And it happened to be. Oh yeah. You turned 60 while we were there. Oh, well. Right after we came back. A couple of days after we got home. So it was right before my 60th. So I was rereading it thinking with maybe a different lens than I had before. And he was telling story.
[00:11:37] He was talking about his experience of, um, of tending to people's feet while he was on the pilgrimage because that blisters happen. That's just, if you're going to go walk on a walking pilgrimage, there's going to be some blisters. So he was tending to the blisters and, um, and he had been reading, um, some book about, um, that sometimes we can, uh, part of healing is you, you can take on another suffering. Um, and the idea is, of course, you don't take it on forever.
[00:12:06] Um, and he got blisters cause he was thinking about that. And he's like, maybe I got their blisters. So then I got blisters. And I said, maybe I got other people's blisters. Yeah. I don't really think. There were a lot of blisters in our group actually. And, um, so I don't know that I did that, but my learning for me as I was leading is that I do think there is power in standing with another and, and, and holding their sorrow. And there's power in that and just being present to another's suffering.
[00:12:34] And, um, there's healing for me in that. I mean, that's part of, for me, part of the ministry of Christ is to stand with us in suffering. And so, um, I began to think about the pain and my blisters in that way. Like, have I taken on other people's pain? Um, and I don't need to hold it. I can just listen to it and then let it go. So I did think about continually as I walked of, of channeling that pain into the universe,
[00:13:01] into the earth, the pain that's mine that I need to learn from, let me hold on to it. And the pain that's not mine that I've taken from someone else. Um, just I'm going to give it to the earth to give it to the divine and heal it. Um, so that actually turned out to be a really powerful experience for me to think about that in my own life. Where have I taken on pain that, um, I've stopped being helpful because now I'm holding it as opposed to just witnessing it and holding it and let the healing happen, but not internalizing it. Yeah.
[00:13:30] So that was really powerful. And I learned a lot about group dynamics. Um, uh, yeah. So, so in listening to you there too, I learned more about group, more, I learned more about my leadership skills to where I can improve and what I do well. Well, good. Always. Cause you got to know yourself. Yeah. You know, um, I hear you on the whole, like the shared suffering and I also hear like the miracle of the two old men. Yeah. We had shared joy. We had shared joy.
[00:14:01] Right. Yeah. And both of those things are true. And that's, yeah. Yeah. And then I remember that on, so I got home on a Wednesday and I took my first run walk on a Monday. Yeah. And my, uh, at home in Wilmington on the loop and my right arch started hurting. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, um, so I'm like, dang it. And dumb me. I do all the things that I did before. Stop. Retie my shoe. Um, loosen it up, tighten it up, stretch it out, blah, blah.
[00:14:31] Surprise ending. None of those things worked. And then I'm walking over their bridge and the idea, that little memory of that little dude blowing me that kiss comes in my head. And all of a sudden I feel my body shift. My confidence rises, like my trust in my own self rises. My shoulders come back over my, um, pelvis. My arms start swinging. My stride changes, foot stops hurting.
[00:14:58] And I was like, Oh my gosh. And I think we alluded to in the very first, um, week of June that the body remembers. Yeah. And I had to call you and say like, Oh my gosh, my body just remembered. Yeah. The joy. Yeah. And now that I'm in, now that I'm home and I'm out of pain and I, now I can notice like, Oh wow. Cause I had no idea why that, I don't, I had no idea what changed when we were in Camino
[00:15:25] and I took that next step away from that man and my right foot was not killing me anymore. No clue. And, but, but standing at home in my safe space on my favorite loop over the water, you know, I could feel how my body shifted my mood, my thoughts. Wow. So yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, a pilgrimage, it keeps going. It doesn't end. I mean, if you, if you go into it intentionally, you can, you can make it a vacation if you want to and that's fine, but it's not the same thing.
[00:15:53] So a pilgrimage is to intentionally enter into something that might cause some pain. Um, it might bring great joy and it's just, it's a different mindset to go on a vacation. It's just, I'm just going to go and relax. Yeah. Sometimes I do that. And that's really important. That's okay. That's a great thing to do. Um, but a pilgrimage is something different and they're both good, just different things. Yeah. So, okay. So, um, so I, I wanted to expand because that's not where the Camino ended for me.
[00:16:23] I didn't just like, you know, have three days of chitter chatter with people and then, you know, we walk for 12 days. That's only three of them. Have some horrible, have some miracle, have a rest day. Um, and then the next day that I walked after the day that I rested, uh, I walked in my Birkenstocks. Yeah. For the, I think it was 11 miles ish that day.
[00:16:47] That day I think actually turned into, cause again, a part of a pilgrimage is it's not completely curated and you're going to get lost. And that's part of life. Right. And so, and we were also always trying to find the scenic trail and the scenic is longer. And it's not well marked and not well marked as well marked. You can easily lose your way. And, uh, and so some days turned into longer miles and that day turned, I think into a 17 mile day. Oh wow. Okay.
[00:17:12] Well I was in my Birks and, um, what was different for me then the next day is I was like, oh no, I'm taking a rest. Yeah. So the first rest day I took, it was almost under duress. I was fighting it. Yeah. I didn't want to do it. I had a lot of ego involved. Then I had a lot of stuff come up. Um, there again, that evening, um, my roommate Leslie really put some love on me.
[00:17:38] I got to tell her the, the more challenging parts of that year that were coming up. And then the next day I think I felt more free to, to share.
[00:17:48] In fact, uh, the next day when I walked in my Birks, I remember coming to prayer meeting that morning and saying to the group, you did, I got some stuff coming up and I'm going to be crying a lot and I don't want to talk. Yeah. And I don't want to be hugged.
[00:18:10] And if you want to support me as you're walking by, you can just, you know, put a hand on my shoulder and like just knowing how I felt and knowing what would comfort me and not comfort me and then communicating it clearly to a group of people. Ooh, that is some growth, some growth. Yeah. And, and I did cry a lot. That was the first day I listened to music. Yeah.
[00:18:32] Um, and also I had a couple people who kind of hovered a little bit, but were so respectful and, and I could feel, you know, you can feel them behind you and it felt good. Yeah. And also I could be in my own space and process what I needed to process. Yeah. Yeah. So that led into like a decision of like, yeah, I'm resting tomorrow.
[00:18:58] And so I knew at dinner there was no going back and forth or like, I don't know if I should or, but the other guys are like 20 years older than me and they're like cranking out and I'm like pass. You know, there was none of that. You know, there was none of that. It was like, Oh no, I'm calling, I'm booking a massage now. I am getting a late checkout. I'm getting in a taxi cab. And it was a totally different experience of how intentionally.
[00:19:28] Yeah. I cared for my body and almost in a, in a living amends kind of way. Like, Hey body, I've been telling you for so many years that I'm not going to abuse you and throw you under the bus and run our stress levels through the roof and just keep grinding. Yeah. But this is me living that promise to you. I'm not doing that. And it was a really empowered decision. It was a great day. And that massage made me feel awesome.
[00:19:57] So, um, and I got lots of little texts, you know, from other pilgrims saying like, Hey, I'm really proud of you for like calling it a day. So it was, it was a, it was a middle part of my journey maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, that's a good spot to stop. Okay. We've got the other things that happened on the rest of the journey.
[00:20:27] We're going to cover group dynamics. We're going to cover anything else that seems like it needs to be said. Yeah. Well, why don't we do some group dynamics and then you can tell them the story of for you, uh, what it was to walk into Santiago. Oh, cause I think that was another powerful moment for you. Oh gosh. Yeah. Oh, I can feel the chairs coming. Yeah. Okay.
[00:20:48] We'll see you next week on healthy AF where we're going to talk about group dynamics of a pilgrimage, what it feels like and what it looks like, what shifts, um, some really powerful personal stories about what happened on the last little bit of the Santiago and, um, and anything else that comes to mind. So we'll see you next week on healthy AF. See you next week. Thanks for hanging out with me today on healthy AF.
[00:21:15] I hope something you heard helps you take one small kind step toward your healthiest self. If you love this episode, hit subscribe. So you never miss a conversation. And if you want more support, head over to my healthy life dot coach to connect with me. Remember, you don't have to do it perfectly. You just have to start choosing you. See you next time.
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