Healthy AF Friendsgiving Bonus: Charting a New Course with Jai Jones

[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The MESH.

[00:00:09] Hey, I'm Amy Chang. I'm a nationally board-certified health and wellness coach, and this is Healthy AF.

[00:00:16] In this podcast, I'll be bringing you all things health, from the newest health strategies to how to tackle those personal roadblocks that just will not let you move forward.

[00:00:27] So buckle in. We're going to be inspired and instructed, and dadgum, we're going to have a little fun on Healthy AF.

[00:00:36] Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Healthy AF. I'm super extra excited.

[00:00:40] Well, I say that every time, but I am super extra excited, particularly because I get to share with you my friend, Jai Jones.

[00:00:51] Jai Jones is a fellow coach, and I think I want to introduce him as this.

[00:00:56] Every time I spend time with Jai, I come away feeling heard, loved, connected, and held to my very best self.

[00:01:07] And his wife, Lynn, is fantastic as well. So they're kind of, I have a little bit of jealousy over the power couple thing, but I still like Jai anyway.

[00:01:17] Welcome, Jai Jones.

[00:01:18] What's up? How you been?

[00:01:20] Yeah.

[00:01:21] I'm pretty good hanging in. Just got through the Thanksgiving. I saw that you were cooking for Thanksgiving.

[00:01:28] Yes, very much so.

[00:01:30] Is that your jam?

[00:01:31] That's my jam. Yeah. I cook weekends and all holidays.

[00:01:36] Uh-huh. All right. Is that like a love language or is that I want to put my headphones on and be in the kitchen by myself or what is that?

[00:01:45] Um, kind of both. It is my wife and I's first, I guess, official and probably our only actual date I cooked for.

[00:01:59] Oh, really?

[00:02:01] Oh, really?

[00:02:01] And we were in high school.

[00:02:03] Oh, gosh.

[00:02:04] Yes.

[00:02:05] So that's kind of-

[00:02:06] What are you good for? Do you remember?

[00:02:08] Um, yeah, it's rib eye. Just simple rib eye, rib eye, some, uh, fresh cut fries, salad, nothing, nothing serious.

[00:02:19] What time are we eating?

[00:02:22] Are you there at 11?

[00:02:23] Yeah, come on.

[00:02:25] But yeah, that was just like, you know, first and foremost, she was the only girl that had ever actually met my family.

[00:02:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:34] So, um, I was a different Jay in that window of life.

[00:02:40] So it was like, I wanted to spend some time with her and being out with her, it would have gotten us nowhere.

[00:02:48] Yes.

[00:02:49] So we stayed in, I cooked for, and um, yeah, we've been together since.

[00:02:55] Gosh, how many years is that?

[00:02:58] Uh, since that, uh, 28.

[00:03:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:03] Yeah, about 28 years.

[00:03:05] Uh, we've been married 25 years.

[00:03:08] Yeah.

[00:03:08] September 23rd is 25 years.

[00:03:11] Wow.

[00:03:12] Yes.

[00:03:13] Yeah, jealousy pangs over here.

[00:03:15] That's awesome, Jay.

[00:03:16] Hey.

[00:03:16] And to see you two together, you, you, you're a salt and pepper.

[00:03:22] I appreciate it.

[00:03:23] That's, that's the goal.

[00:03:26] Yeah.

[00:03:26] Right.

[00:03:27] That is to be married to your best friend that you happen to be in love with.

[00:03:31] Yep.

[00:03:32] Yes.

[00:03:32] That'd be good.

[00:03:33] That'd be good.

[00:03:34] Okay.

[00:03:34] So I want other people to know everything about Jay.

[00:03:39] Jay.

[00:03:39] So what is it you'd like to tell us in a nutshell or a walnut size shell, or even like an army

[00:03:45] trunk about who is Jay Jones?

[00:03:49] Um, Jay Jones, uh, kid from the South side of Wilmington, North Carolina.

[00:03:54] Um, just a kid.

[00:03:57] I grew up a lot of, a lot of family.

[00:04:01] Uh, we stayed together most of my life, but, um, whether it was in the project.

[00:04:06] So when my grandmother finally moved out of the projects is somehow we all ended up in

[00:04:11] the same house together at the same time throughout the years of my life, which is why I value alone

[00:04:19] time and being in my home alone now.

[00:04:24] But, um, outside of that, you know, I'm, I'm first and foremost, uh, a husband, uh, then

[00:04:32] a father.

[00:04:33] And then, um, I try to serve those in proximity to me, um, just kind of as a conduit for, you

[00:04:43] know, to kind of what Amy said.

[00:04:45] It's just like, so it was, it was, it's encouraging to hear that you feel that way when you're around

[00:04:50] me, because that's always my hope is that, uh, people around me feel connected and heard

[00:04:56] and loved.

[00:04:57] Um, whether I, whether I know you or not, you know, I, I usually, um, so backtrack.

[00:05:08] I was the serial new kid growing up.

[00:05:11] So I don't truly, I don't truly know how to be a stranger.

[00:05:17] Hmm.

[00:05:18] You know, the first time we met, do you remember the first time we met?

[00:05:21] Yes.

[00:05:21] Yes.

[00:05:22] Yes.

[00:05:23] Uh, you, you allowed, and I asked, Hey, you want to share some of that food?

[00:05:29] That's it.

[00:05:30] Yes.

[00:05:31] But that's, that's just, that was just it.

[00:05:34] I was, you know, my mom was the runner in the family.

[00:05:36] So if it was ever not going her way, we left.

[00:05:40] Hmm.

[00:05:41] So that put me in seven elementary schools, um, in the six years of elementary school.

[00:05:49] Wow.

[00:05:49] Um, so it was, I never, I, I didn't have a core group of people, um, of friends until

[00:05:58] probably middle school, middle school, early high school.

[00:06:03] So I didn't know what that was preparing me for at that time.

[00:06:07] But now I know that if I go to a conference and there's 2,500 people there, I'm meeting

[00:06:15] 2,499 people.

[00:06:18] And ultimately I just want to, I want to love on people because I don't like them all the

[00:06:24] time.

[00:06:25] Truth.

[00:06:26] So I want to, I definitely want to love on every opportunity I get, but that's Jay.

[00:06:35] That's Jay.

[00:06:37] Well, that certainly has been my impression of Jay.

[00:06:39] So, um, you know, I don't know where your people lie when they start coming to coaching

[00:06:47] my people lie.

[00:06:48] And I laid for decades of my life, not knowing me.

[00:06:53] And so my life, um, although I had a lot of accomplishments, didn't always align or feel

[00:07:00] as accomplished as who I really wanted to feel like.

[00:07:05] Hmm.

[00:07:06] So kudos.

[00:07:08] I know that.

[00:07:09] I know that person.

[00:07:11] Yeah.

[00:07:12] Yeah.

[00:07:13] Every once in a while.

[00:07:15] I had a temper tantrum in the gym this morning and I was like, who is it?

[00:07:23] Yeah.

[00:07:24] Yeah.

[00:07:24] It was a little, I had a little, my couple tears.

[00:07:27] Well, that's the best though.

[00:07:31] Yeah.

[00:07:32] Yeah.

[00:07:32] That's the best.

[00:07:33] Those, those, those unsolicited ones that you can't control because you know, is getting

[00:07:38] out.

[00:07:38] What can't stay anymore.

[00:07:41] Yes.

[00:07:41] Um, yes, those are good tears.

[00:07:43] These were not those.

[00:07:44] These were, um, I'm mad because my body is not doing what I want her to do right now.

[00:07:53] Wow.

[00:07:54] And I'm not being patient and I'm not being respectful and my ego is running the show.

[00:08:01] Yeah.

[00:08:01] So I know that normally lands me with the injury.

[00:08:06] A hundred percent.

[00:08:08] A hundred percent.

[00:08:09] And so I do.

[00:08:10] I used all my tools.

[00:08:12] I know that person.

[00:08:12] I know that person as well.

[00:08:13] Yeah.

[00:08:14] Last Thanksgiving, I tore, uh, tore my extended tendon in my middle, in my, uh, right middle

[00:08:20] finger.

[00:08:21] How'd you do that?

[00:08:23] Uh, football.

[00:08:25] Yeah.

[00:08:25] Of course.

[00:08:26] Football.

[00:08:26] Football.

[00:08:27] And, uh, completely turned it facing me and I popped it back forward and ran two more

[00:08:39] plays to win the game as the quarterback and I'm right handed, but we won.

[00:08:44] And that's the important thing.

[00:08:48] Oh, my God.

[00:08:49] So now, you know, my, my left, uh, my right middle finger would never be straight again,

[00:08:54] but Hey, you know, I won the game.

[00:08:56] You won the game.

[00:08:57] Yes, I, I did.

[00:08:58] I had to have a talk into myself.

[00:09:00] Like, do you want to like win the game of this workout or do you want to maintain your

[00:09:05] commitment to love your body and be patient with her and, you know, stay physically active

[00:09:11] in a group and like all that other stuff that you're really committed to?

[00:09:14] Or do you just want what you want when you want it?

[00:09:19] And right there in that moment, I was like, Hmm.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:22] I just want what I want when I want it.

[00:09:24] Yeah.

[00:09:25] A thousand percent.

[00:09:26] So I told a fellow gym member, I was like, I think I need to have some time out today.

[00:09:34] Yeah.

[00:09:35] You'll get it back.

[00:09:36] It's just, you know, you gotta have those moments though, you know, to take that time

[00:09:41] and zoom out and, and see the whole picture.

[00:09:45] Yep.

[00:09:46] It re re solidifies your commitment.

[00:09:48] Oh yeah.

[00:09:49] So let's talk about commitment for a minute because you, you have on your screen faithful

[00:09:55] to the assignment.

[00:09:56] That's the name of your business.

[00:09:57] And that's how you work as a coach.

[00:09:59] Tell me about Jay Jones, the coach.

[00:10:02] Why'd you do that?

[00:10:04] What was it like?

[00:10:05] What possessed you to do that?

[00:10:07] What possessed you to do that?

[00:10:07] Listen, like most of the things I've done in my life, it wasn't by choice.

[00:10:11] Um, I just, I wasn't a dreamer as a kid.

[00:10:15] Um, I just, I, I never saw anything get done.

[00:10:21] So my goal growing up was just to grow up.

[00:10:24] Like I felt as though I would be lucky if I just make it to grow up.

[00:10:29] And then I grew up and I had to figure out what I was supposed to do as a grownup.

[00:10:34] Cause I had made it further than, you know, most of the people that I had the opportunity

[00:10:38] to watch growing up.

[00:10:40] And, um, but what landed me in the space.

[00:10:43] So I spent a decade and a half, uh, overseeing student ministries and youth ministries.

[00:10:51] Um, and how I landed in coaching, um, was kind of through the pipeline of mentoring, uh, those high schoolers and college students and young adults.

[00:11:05] And what I learned was that, um, youth grow up and they still need you the same.

[00:11:16] And, and so I was, you know, I was mentoring a handful of guys, um, and helped a few of them start some ministries, start some businesses and stuff.

[00:11:26] And, you know, their stuff was going great.

[00:11:29] And then they all kind of turned and rebelled against me and was like, okay, you have to do something because more than just us need this.

[00:11:37] Um, they partnered with my wife and, uh, they kind of all jumped, jumped me and made me do it.

[00:11:45] And, uh, one father's day six, six, seven years ago, my wife hands me a box and is, and completed LLC with business cards and the website login and all other things.

[00:12:04] And, um, we officially got rolling at that point.

[00:12:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:12:09] We existed probably six years prior though, um, just out of that initial group of guys, uh, entering some, entering college, some coming out of college, but ultimately, uh, even getting into youth ministry.

[00:12:25] I just, I saw, I saw what I needed at that age.

[00:12:30] And I was like, okay, how do I, how do I pour into that space?

[00:12:36] What was that that you needed, Jay?

[00:12:39] I needed mentorship.

[00:12:40] I didn't, I needed mentorship.

[00:12:42] I needed, you know, just guidance.

[00:12:46] Um, so my father, my father was murdered when I was four.

[00:12:51] So I didn't know him growing up.

[00:12:53] Uh, the men in my family were in and out of prison or if they weren't in and out of prison, they just moved away.

[00:13:02] And was like, was that family member?

[00:13:05] The one that moves away and has a whole nother life.

[00:13:08] And if they are nearby, they're here for 48 hours and then they're gone.

[00:13:14] So that was like, that was what I'm trying to draw from.

[00:13:20] So the, the, the, the man I initially became was the result of, uh, you know, the drug dealers in my neighborhood, uh, the rap music that I listened to.

[00:13:36] Uh, well, and the R and B music that I listened to.

[00:13:39] So I was really raised by nine, nine women.

[00:13:43] Um, my mom, my grandmother, and a bunch of aunts.

[00:13:47] And it was just, I never had a, had a male figure to pour into me, um, until I was an adult.

[00:13:58] And then the first one I actually had, um, he went through a life crisis.

[00:14:05] And it totally derailed me.

[00:14:10] Um, and that was probably my first bout of depression.

[00:14:16] The only thing was I didn't have language to identify.

[00:14:19] And how old were you then?

[00:14:23] Twenty seven.

[00:14:25] Hmm.

[00:14:26] And, um, and you did not have language for that depression.

[00:14:29] I didn't, I didn't know.

[00:14:31] I didn't know what it was.

[00:14:32] Mm.

[00:14:33] That's ultimately, you know, and, and as I've gotten older, I, I've learned that it's not just in the African American community, but in, in most men's lives.

[00:14:45] Um, you just don't get that.

[00:14:49] It's the, you know, you fall down, you don't cry, you rub some dirt on it.

[00:14:54] You keep going forward.

[00:14:56] Um, and that was just, you know, what I was doing and how I was going about it.

[00:15:03] And I just, I was in this state and I was feeling all of these things and I didn't know what to do with it.

[00:15:10] Mm.

[00:15:11] And I just, I rebelled against everything good in my life because this person who was now my mentor, uh, his life fell apart.

[00:15:22] So I disqualified myself.

[00:15:24] Mm.

[00:15:25] Mm.

[00:15:25] I was just like, man, it's like, if his life can't work, if his marriage can't work, surely mine's doomed anyway.

[00:15:35] So instead of, instead of me letting it run his course and potentially not derailing, I just jumped the tracks and just threw us off a cliff.

[00:15:49] Mm.

[00:15:49] And, you know, through that time, um, you know, I started dealing with having this random conversations with people that I know and they didn't really, unfortunately,

[00:16:02] they didn't answer anything for me, but they just sat and listened to me.

[00:16:07] God, that's a blessing.

[00:16:09] People do not have that Jay in their normal day life, especially if they're not already in relationships that encourage vulnerability and sharing and allowing emotions to happen and sort of allowing us to be in the sea of our own discovery.

[00:16:28] Oh yeah.

[00:16:29] That doesn't happen.

[00:16:30] Who, who did that?

[00:16:31] Were those the, were those the women in your life?

[00:16:34] Were those strangers, mentors?

[00:16:36] No.

[00:16:37] Um, some, not even, so my cousin, my cousin, who's, who's, he's, he's wise beyond his years.

[00:16:46] He's just not a talker.

[00:16:47] Mm.

[00:16:48] Oh, great.

[00:16:49] Um, yeah.

[00:16:50] He's, he's super wise.

[00:16:51] Especially if you're an external processor.

[00:16:52] He's a super wise dude.

[00:16:55] He's a super wise dude.

[00:16:55] But I'm also, I, I have always ultimately been the person everyone went to and whatever that space looked like, whether it's friends, family, uh, sports, even, you know, hanging out on the corner with drug dealers at three o'clock in the morning.

[00:17:12] And I'm the youngest kid up there.

[00:17:14] And these grown men are telling me about their relationships and me in 10th grade, giving them relationship advice, not knowing where it's coming from.

[00:17:26] I'm just, it's like, man, well, maybe you should, or maybe you should do this.

[00:17:31] Well, have you ever thought about this?

[00:17:33] And then they come back and they're like, little man, I did what you told me and it worked.

[00:17:40] And not again, not knowing, but in that situation with my cousin, I'm telling him all the things I'm feeling and he's got nothing to give me.

[00:17:49] He's just got this blank look, but I believe me hearing it, hearing me express it audibly helped me to, to process it.

[00:18:00] Yeah.

[00:18:00] And ultimately I realized that, um, the, the, the best thing that had happened in my life and the thing that I probably had prayed more for in all of my days, I was thrown away because of what someone else went through.

[00:18:21] And I just, I came to that realization and it just, it came clear to me and I started to backtrack and started to mend things and really do the work to, you know, repair, repair little James, you know, to, to sit with him and, uh, understand where this.

[00:18:47] Can I pin you right there?

[00:18:48] Can I pin that right there?

[00:18:49] Yes.

[00:18:51] Um, so I often say, you got to do your work.

[00:18:56] I'm doing my work.

[00:18:57] You got to do your work.

[00:18:58] Your work is not my work.

[00:18:59] I can stand beside you while you do work, but you know, I can't do your work for you.

[00:19:03] That's it.

[00:19:05] And, um, it dawns on me too.

[00:19:08] Sometimes people don't understand what the work is.

[00:19:11] So when you were given that gift, that learning opportunity and you chose to do some work.

[00:19:23] What exactly did that work look like?

[00:19:30] Um, it started with apologizing.

[00:19:36] Hmm.

[00:19:37] Um, was that easy or was, was learning to apologize was part of the work or was that just easy?

[00:19:45] That was just the beginning of the work, but that was still probably the hardest part of the work.

[00:19:52] Um, because again, I'm the one everyone goes to.

[00:19:57] Okay.

[00:19:58] So in most cases I'm right.

[00:20:04] Or at least.

[00:20:05] Okay.

[00:20:06] If, if, if Lynn tells me to scrub that out, then if Lynn tells me to like scrub that part out, in most cases he's right.

[00:20:13] Yeah.

[00:20:14] In most cases, like, um, I'm correct.

[00:20:18] And it's like, so I've never had a lot of experience with apologizing, like earnestly apologizing.

[00:20:27] And, um, but that was where the work started, but that was the hardest part of the work was apologizing to my wife.

[00:20:35] And then.

[00:20:36] What made that hard, Jay?

[00:20:39] Um, just cause she had done nothing wrong.

[00:20:42] She had done, she had done nothing wrong to, uh, to garner like the behavior I was, I was exhibiting.

[00:20:50] Um, so yeah, she was, that was the, that was the hardest part, but that was the beginning of the work.

[00:20:58] Then from there, uh, it started with a group of men, um, group of men at my church.

[00:21:06] They were meeting and it was just a little small group.

[00:21:10] And I really didn't know what small group was.

[00:21:13] I just knew a few of the guys in the group.

[00:21:18] I respected, like I respected them and who they were.

[00:21:23] And I go to the group and, uh, you know, I know most of the people there, a couple of guys that didn't, but I'm going around the room.

[00:21:32] I'm hugging everybody.

[00:21:33] Hey man, Jay.

[00:21:34] It's like, oh man, yeah, I know who you are.

[00:21:36] And I sit down and they start talking.

[00:21:39] And then I realized I was like, I shouldn't be.

[00:21:46] So, um, it was, uh, it was.

[00:21:50] What had you think that?

[00:21:51] Well, forget it.

[00:21:54] It's, it's, it's, it's old now, but it was ultimately they were, um, they were kind of like guys recovering from like porn addiction.

[00:22:04] Okay.

[00:22:05] And everybody was dealing with that.

[00:22:08] And I didn't know that like the group wasn't called like get over porn or something like that.

[00:22:14] You know what I'm saying?

[00:22:14] It was just, Hey, a men's small group.

[00:22:17] So I went and I'm listening to these dudes go around the room and then they get to me.

[00:22:23] They like, so what's your story?

[00:22:24] And I was like, not that, not that dude.

[00:22:28] Like I never, you know, I never battle with that.

[00:22:31] There's like, well, how'd you end up here?

[00:22:33] And I was like, I just need to be in a room with some men that, that are going to open up and that can help me get to that point.

[00:22:40] And, uh, ultimately I stayed in a group and then the group kind of shifted more so to, um, talking about that when there was like a trigger or a flare up and they were having issues with it.

[00:22:56] But it turned into like us really sharing our heart and how do we get over hurdles.

[00:23:03] And that was like, that was probably the biggest, the biggest help to getting the, getting the work started in myself and holding myself accountable and putting people in my life that can call me on all my BS.

[00:23:21] And then it was like, um, putting barriers in place and safeguarding my, my functions and how I was moving around because ultimately, you know, I was still in Wilmington and I'm still Jay Jones in Wilmington.

[00:23:43] And so it was like, people invite me to things and want me to come out to stuff and me understanding that coming out of what I just went through, this may not be a good look for me.

[00:23:56] Okay.

[00:23:56] So to be clear, when you say this may not be a good look, do you actually mean that other people are going to look and judge you?

[00:24:03] Or do you mean this is not a good look?

[00:24:05] Like this is not something that I want to be surrounding myself with right now.

[00:24:10] Cause those are two different things that, I mean, I know that a little of both.

[00:24:16] So it could have been just a party and me not knowing who's going to be there.

[00:24:24] And me going and just, again, a picture gets posted of me, a picture gets posted of someone else.

[00:24:35] And then there's autumn automatic, like, oh, they must have seen each other there.

[00:24:41] Okay.

[00:24:42] So optically wasn't a good look, but also, uh, mentally and emotionally.

[00:24:50] Not a good look just because, um, I always used to tell my youth, I was like, before hashtagging was a thing.

[00:25:00] I would always tell them hashtag run.

[00:25:03] Hmm.

[00:25:04] I was like, if the situation starts becoming something that you can't deal with run.

[00:25:13] It's like, don't wait to fight.

[00:25:16] Just run.

[00:25:17] It's like, we can, we can always look back at how the situation was playing out and see what the trigger was in that situation.

[00:25:27] But you don't hang around to see if that thing triggers you.

[00:25:32] You get out of there, you get somewhere safe.

[00:25:36] And so it was, it was just, it was putting that in place.

[00:25:42] And ultimately, like, home was good.

[00:25:46] Like, Lynn could call me on whatever.

[00:25:48] I had the group of guys where they were calling me and checking on me.

[00:25:53] Then I had my own as far as like, out of the home safeguards in place.

[00:26:01] Um, so much so it was like, if I'm leaving work, I'm texting, Hey, I'm leaving work.

[00:26:09] Should be home at this time.

[00:26:12] Or if I'm going somewhere, Hey, I just got here.

[00:26:17] This is who I'll be with tonight.

[00:26:20] And it's putting those things in place that kind of, uh, I kind of just barricaded myself with accountability.

[00:26:30] And, um, it was, it was the toughest, probably two years of my life.

[00:26:41] Just, just kind of reintroducing myself to myself.

[00:26:47] You know?

[00:26:50] Yeah.

[00:26:51] Yeah.

[00:26:53] Um, I have so much in my brain right now, Jay.

[00:26:58] I knew you would.

[00:27:01] I do.

[00:27:03] Well, for one, uh, okay.

[00:27:06] So let me just give you back what.

[00:27:09] Let's go.

[00:27:09] Okay, great.

[00:27:11] Uh, I too had a moment in my life where I discovered that I had been mentoring people either through

[00:27:17] the call CrossFit gym or, you know, just in general, or, you know, children who had been

[00:27:22] at my children's school or whatever that was.

[00:27:25] And then when I started really going through some life changes and, um, uh, did my first

[00:27:32] like personal professional development and really started pouring into me and started coaching

[00:27:36] and being coached.

[00:27:38] I got, um, served up with my bigness.

[00:27:41] You say you got jumped.

[00:27:43] I say I got served up with my bigness.

[00:27:46] Okay.

[00:27:46] I finally was around people who would hold me to account and who would say, you are being

[00:27:52] greedy with what you can offer the world.

[00:27:54] Now stop playing small.

[00:27:56] You're bigger.

[00:27:58] And, um, and I did that.

[00:28:01] Um, I still sort of have to have those supports for accountability in place.

[00:28:06] One of them is these conversations.

[00:28:08] Right.

[00:28:09] Right.

[00:28:09] Yep.

[00:28:10] So I hear that, that you got told you're being greedy and we want you to, we're issuing

[00:28:17] you an invitation to step up and you took it.

[00:28:21] Yep.

[00:28:22] I hear that.

[00:28:23] And I also hear, um, I can really relate to your journey in the porn club because as you

[00:28:34] know, you might know, I don't know if you know this or not, but a few years ago when I decided

[00:28:38] to address some of my behavioral patterns and my codependency, my, um, counselor said,

[00:28:44] I want you to start at Alcoholics Anonymous and I'm not a drinker.

[00:28:50] Um, and now I'm totally sober, but I wasn't a drinker then.

[00:28:55] And she said, every time they say drinking, I want you to think obsessive thinking.

[00:29:03] That's good.

[00:29:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:07] That's good.

[00:29:09] And I did that.

[00:29:10] And I stayed actually in AA meetings for five months before then I found Al-Anon, which is

[00:29:16] for family and friends of alcoholics.

[00:29:18] And, um, what I find in both those spaces, A, when I started going to AA, um, I could relate.

[00:29:28] Like you found your home with those men who had a problem that you didn't have.

[00:29:32] You know, I think to first rediscover yourself, you got to discover yourself.

[00:29:48] And typically when we go through that, the discovery process of ourselves is not pleasant because

[00:29:55] we don't like us.

[00:29:56] We're not doing stuff that we're really committed to.

[00:29:59] And that shit stinks.

[00:30:01] Yes.

[00:30:02] Every time.

[00:30:03] Yep.

[00:30:04] Every time.

[00:30:05] Even when it's like, oh, I threw a temper tantrum today.

[00:30:07] Yeah.

[00:30:08] I mean, you know, it stinks.

[00:30:10] And, um, so it was good to go through that and good to rediscover myself and to recreate

[00:30:17] myself.

[00:30:18] And I did that with, um, AA.

[00:30:21] And I also discovered that many of the people around me had either were addicts or died or

[00:30:31] suffered from addictions of some sort and that I was in exactly the right place that I needed

[00:30:37] to be.

[00:30:38] And, um, it served me well being in that group.

[00:30:41] And so I hear that in your story.

[00:30:43] You had to get into a group of people who were willing to recognize their own, um, their own

[00:30:54] selves, the real selves, and then recreate and rediscover.

[00:31:00] And you had the blessing of being able to do that.

[00:31:08] For sure.

[00:31:09] Those, yeah, those guys, without that group, like I, I always overemphasize.

[00:31:18] It's like, we can't do this alone.

[00:31:20] No.

[00:31:21] No matter how much we, we want to, we want to get to the mountaintop and take the credit

[00:31:28] for being self-made and all that.

[00:31:30] That's like, that's a non-existent space.

[00:31:32] It is non-existent.

[00:31:33] It's like, there's, that's a non-existent space.

[00:31:36] Like that does not exist.

[00:31:38] Like nobody's self-made.

[00:31:41] It's like, it's impossible.

[00:31:44] But now, yeah, for sure.

[00:31:46] That's crazy.

[00:31:47] AA, huh?

[00:31:48] Oh yeah.

[00:31:49] It saved me.

[00:31:50] It really, um, a whole group of alcoholics saved this girl big time and are some of my

[00:31:58] very closest friends.

[00:32:00] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:32:01] I mean, it, that like me occupying that space with them, it, it turned me into what Lynn would

[00:32:10] say, uh, overshare.

[00:32:13] Maybe that's why we get along so well.

[00:32:15] Right.

[00:32:16] Cause I'm like, we, I'm like, it's, Hey, it is what it is.

[00:32:19] It was, you know, just, you know, I took, I took the, the scripture, you know, overcoming

[00:32:27] by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.

[00:32:30] I took that to heart.

[00:32:33] Like I can't save anybody.

[00:32:35] Yeah.

[00:32:35] No.

[00:32:36] But I can tell you what it did for me.

[00:32:40] Yep.

[00:32:40] So anybody I encounter, if, if I'm prompted, given the window, I'll give you, I'll give

[00:32:47] you my dirt.

[00:32:59] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:01] It's kind of moving forward.

[00:33:02] I'm not too proud at all.

[00:33:05] No, I'm not interested in people standing back and watching my life and going like, oh, wow,

[00:33:10] that's an interesting movie.

[00:33:11] You know, I can't believe she did that or like, oh, that sucked.

[00:33:15] Can't believe he did that.

[00:33:16] But if they're going to look at my life, the good, the bad, the nasty, the growth, the everything,

[00:33:24] I'm happy to share it.

[00:33:27] If they find some empowerment, some hope, some, you know, I looked at people, especially

[00:33:35] during the last couple of years, I'd find people in my groups who had what I wanted.

[00:33:42] And I surround people.

[00:33:43] I surround myself with people who have what I wanted.

[00:33:46] The other thing that you said that I thought of was when you talked about, you just didn't

[00:33:52] do certain things or hang out with certain people, you know, whatever that is.

[00:33:57] I call that the hot stove.

[00:34:01] And I had to learn many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times not

[00:34:10] to put my hand on that hot stove.

[00:34:12] Yeah.

[00:34:12] Some stoves are easier for me to avoid than other stoves, right?

[00:34:16] But eventually, if I keep getting the gift of a growing opportunity, then I keep learning

[00:34:24] to not put my hand on that stove.

[00:34:27] You know, and I also use the whole like, like I have a bubble.

[00:34:34] Okay.

[00:34:35] And it's sort of my reverent sanctuary bubble where everything that lives in this bubble is

[00:34:45] authentic.

[00:34:46] And it's me and it's mine.

[00:34:50] And I protect that bubble.

[00:34:54] So if I can see a chaos bubble happening over there, I'm like, no, that's too close to

[00:35:00] my bubble.

[00:35:01] Yeah.

[00:35:01] And I don't have to be mad at the chaos.

[00:35:03] I don't have to be angry.

[00:35:05] I don't have to judge.

[00:35:06] I don't have to do any of that.

[00:35:06] So I can just go like, oh, I see chaos.

[00:35:09] That's too close to my bubble.

[00:35:11] So my bubble is going to be over here.

[00:35:13] And when the chaos settles, I'll be happy to come back over here.

[00:35:18] Yeah.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:20] And that is tough.

[00:35:22] Where my alters is my bubble's going to move.

[00:35:24] I'm not coming to where you are.

[00:35:26] You're welcome to come to where I am.

[00:35:28] Yeah.

[00:35:29] Oh, that's a good one, Jay.

[00:35:30] So it's like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not falling back.

[00:35:35] No.

[00:35:37] But my hand's always out for, to bring you where I am.

[00:35:41] Yeah.

[00:35:42] So it's like, yeah, that's.

[00:35:45] Trust me.

[00:35:46] Uh, yes.

[00:35:47] My wife Lynn tells me all the time.

[00:35:49] She's like, I have a switch.

[00:35:51] And she was like, once that switch is hit, you're, it's like, they disappear.

[00:35:59] Like they vanish.

[00:36:00] It's magic.

[00:36:01] It's like, oh yeah, I can't do that.

[00:36:05] Click.

[00:36:06] Yeah.

[00:36:06] It's like, they don't.

[00:36:08] And it's, it's great.

[00:36:11] It's a great tool.

[00:36:12] Um, it has disadvantages sometimes as well.

[00:36:17] Cause Lynn will bring up somebody to me and I'm like, I have no idea who you're talking

[00:36:21] about.

[00:36:22] She will continue.

[00:36:23] She will continue to describe said person to me.

[00:36:27] And then ultimately she goes to social media, finds them.

[00:36:29] I was like, oh yeah, I remember them.

[00:36:33] Yeah.

[00:36:34] Cause it's like, I'm not, no, I'm, I'm not, I'm not playing in your chaos.

[00:36:41] No, I, I, I, um, have really worked on and continue to work on detach with love.

[00:36:49] I love that one.

[00:36:50] Detach with love, not detached with judgment, not detached with anger, not, you know, not

[00:36:56] cut people off so that they're dead to you.

[00:36:58] Not, you know, but lovingly detach.

[00:37:02] And I try to even think of it from like, those are behaviors that I can't be around.

[00:37:06] I'm not willing to be around that.

[00:37:08] You have to do it.

[00:37:08] You have, you have to have, like, I've had to do it with like, with the kids that I've,

[00:37:12] that I was, I was their youth pastor.

[00:37:15] I didn't know what you were going to say.

[00:37:17] I did it this weekend with my kid.

[00:37:20] So when you said I had to do it with my kids, I was like, oh yeah.

[00:37:24] No, you have to.

[00:37:25] And I, I tell my mom this all the time, you know, cause I have younger siblings and I'm

[00:37:30] like, mom, it's like, you did your job.

[00:37:33] Like you're good.

[00:37:35] Yep.

[00:37:36] Like all of us are 30 plus.

[00:37:39] It's like, you did more than your job.

[00:37:41] Yep.

[00:37:41] It's like, you don't have to put up with that.

[00:37:44] But and getting, getting my mom to see that is the hard thing.

[00:37:49] Because there's nobody who can push my triggering.

[00:37:52] Like my loved ones, my family, my children, you know, my children, you talk like I get

[00:37:57] scared about your children.

[00:37:59] Yes.

[00:38:00] Yes.

[00:38:01] Yeah.

[00:38:02] So I had to do, I had to have a timeout this weekend.

[00:38:06] I was mad and I had to get straight on that.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:09] But it's just, it's all about the departure.

[00:38:12] It's like, I'm not, you know, I'm not going to blow up.

[00:38:15] We're not going to have a confrontation.

[00:38:18] You know, I'm going to gracefully step away, give you your space.

[00:38:22] Yes.

[00:38:23] And I mean, and with this particular one, he was close proximity.

[00:38:28] Mm-hmm.

[00:38:29] And I just, I stepped away.

[00:38:31] And.

[00:38:32] Yeah.

[00:38:33] Four years later, I get a phone call out of nowhere.

[00:38:38] And he was like, man, it was harsh, you know, but he's like, you always tell me to zoom

[00:38:44] out.

[00:38:45] And I zoomed out and looked at the whole thing and I saw what I was bringing around you

[00:38:49] and I apologize.

[00:38:51] Hmm.

[00:38:51] And I was like, too easy.

[00:38:53] You're back in.

[00:38:54] Let's go.

[00:38:55] So.

[00:38:56] Yeah.

[00:38:57] No, really.

[00:38:58] It doesn't take, it's funny.

[00:38:59] It, uh, I was going to say it doesn't take much.

[00:39:01] It takes a lot, uh, depending on what you're in, but, but it doesn't, it's a, one of those

[00:39:08] simple, not easy things.

[00:39:10] Like it takes a lot.

[00:39:12] Looking at yourself is a lot.

[00:39:14] Okay.

[00:39:15] Oh yeah.

[00:39:15] But all it takes is like looking at yourself.

[00:39:17] Yeah.

[00:39:18] No, he, he, he came to me.

[00:39:21] He was like, dude, he was like, it got, he was like, I was so mad at you for so for, he

[00:39:25] was like, I was mad at you for probably three of the four years that we hadn't talked.

[00:39:29] And then this past year, it was like everything I was trying to get done.

[00:39:34] All I could hear was your voice in my head telling me something that you had already told

[00:39:39] me a thousand times.

[00:39:41] And I just wouldn't do it because I'm hearing your voice say it.

[00:39:44] Yeah.

[00:39:44] He's like, started doing all the stuff I was hearing in my head.

[00:39:48] Now my life's great.

[00:39:49] And I was like, I just needed to call you and apologize.

[00:39:54] So it's just, yeah.

[00:39:57] It's where the rubber meets the road too.

[00:39:59] I find that that's true.

[00:40:01] One thing I really liked about your story, Jay, is that you said that you created multiple

[00:40:08] paths of accountability.

[00:40:11] And where I think that some of us fail is we see the shizzle that we live in and the

[00:40:19] things that we've been doing and we're not proud of them and they hurt and it feels yucky.

[00:40:23] And we might apologize.

[00:40:25] But then moving forward, do we actually continue to do that or do we slip into blaming or hiding

[00:40:36] out in shame?

[00:40:37] I mean, I will say this.

[00:40:39] This is the fruits of my work in the 12-step programs and in general just in the last decade.

[00:40:47] I got angry with one of my kids.

[00:40:50] I was able to say, I'm angry with you and I'm not ready to talk.

[00:40:56] Then I was able to say, I know now how I feel.

[00:41:02] Can we discuss?

[00:41:04] They were like, yes.

[00:41:06] I shared what I needed to share without oversharing, without preaching, without advising, without

[00:41:13] making wrong, without judging.

[00:41:14] I got to say like, I was very angry.

[00:41:17] This did not work for me.

[00:41:20] And that sweet kid said, you know, there's really nothing for me to say.

[00:41:31] I did that and that was not okay.

[00:41:35] All right.

[00:41:37] And about 30 minutes later, they said, you know, I really want to just blame you and dad.

[00:41:44] But I know that this is all on me.

[00:41:48] And man, if they can get that in their 20s, I didn't get that until I was almost 50.

[00:41:54] If they can get that in their 20s, what a gift that will be.

[00:42:00] I did something.

[00:42:02] I didn't like it.

[00:42:03] You know, not like you might have liked it, but yeah.

[00:42:05] It wasn't right.

[00:42:07] It didn't align with me.

[00:42:09] There's nothing for me to say or do besides I'm sorry.

[00:42:13] And I'm taking responsibility for that.

[00:42:15] And that's what I really hear when you say, you know, made this decision to turn my life

[00:42:21] around because I was pissing it away.

[00:42:23] Yeah.

[00:42:24] That was it.

[00:42:25] But no, that's it.

[00:42:27] Because like I said, you have to.

[00:42:30] But again, I was 30.

[00:42:32] I was 30, you know, before I got that.

[00:42:37] But I just I never learned it.

[00:42:39] Because in just in my family, like the ecosystem that I resided in.

[00:42:48] If I was mad at you, we argued, we fought, and then we didn't talk to each other until

[00:42:54] we had to and then act like it never happened.

[00:42:56] Oh, girl.

[00:42:57] Yeah.

[00:42:58] And I'm like, I'm just not set up that way.

[00:43:02] It's like, I don't play cards.

[00:43:04] Like I don't play cards because I watch people fight over cards growing up.

[00:43:13] Yeah.

[00:43:14] Like just this Thanksgiving, like they were in the house playing cards.

[00:43:19] And it was, you know, kids playing, everybody playing.

[00:43:22] It's like, you're going to play?

[00:43:22] I was like, no, I don't play cards.

[00:43:24] It's like, what do you mean you don't play cards?

[00:43:26] You were a Marine.

[00:43:27] It's like, yeah, still don't play cards.

[00:43:31] And it's like, they couldn't understand it.

[00:43:33] And I explained it to them.

[00:43:34] It's like, listen, like I've seen people, you know, seriously injured over card games.

[00:43:40] Yeah.

[00:43:41] Games.

[00:43:41] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:43] It's like not even money on the line.

[00:43:46] Yeah.

[00:43:47] Just a card game.

[00:43:48] Just two big egos.

[00:43:50] You know, not enough room for both those egos.

[00:43:52] Yeah.

[00:43:52] So as a kid early in life, I was like, oh, okay.

[00:43:57] I'm not into that.

[00:43:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:59] But I was that.

[00:44:00] I was the kid.

[00:44:01] Like, I was the kid that believed you.

[00:44:06] You told me the stove was hot.

[00:44:09] It's like, all right, cool.

[00:44:11] I don't need to see.

[00:44:14] Oh.

[00:44:15] If you tell me it's hot, okay, cool.

[00:44:19] Jay, I wish.

[00:44:21] I don't know.

[00:44:22] This girl got to burn her hand 40, 11 times.

[00:44:25] And I have often wondered to myself, why, Amy, do you have to walk yourself into a big, massive mistake to have a learning opportunity?

[00:44:35] I don't have an answer for that.

[00:44:37] But I do know I'm very consistent.

[00:44:38] I will learn.

[00:44:40] But I've got to walk my feet in there.

[00:44:42] I think I'm getting a little bit better.

[00:44:47] Yeah.

[00:44:47] Actually, yes.

[00:44:49] I do.

[00:44:51] And I think like pausing, slowing down, you know, not being in drama, not living so fast, not, you know, like, you know, now I stop and think about stuff.

[00:45:03] You know, even this morning when I was at the gym and irritated, I go in the bathroom between rounds.

[00:45:08] We had like three rounds with a three-minute break in between.

[00:45:11] Each round was like six-esque minutes.

[00:45:12] Oh, that's right.

[00:45:13] You're a CrossFitter.

[00:45:14] You know I am.

[00:45:15] And so I go into the bathroom to take a pee and I'm saying to myself like, hey, do you want to be here?

[00:45:25] You know, do you want to do this?

[00:45:27] You know, like even then, I'm like, are you grateful for your body for doing this?

[00:45:33] So the pausing between I don't like this and, you know, acting bullheaded.

[00:45:40] Oh, yeah.

[00:45:41] Yeah.

[00:45:42] Either with fixing it, I've just got to work harder.

[00:45:44] I've just got to do more.

[00:45:45] I've just got to earn more money.

[00:45:46] I've just got to, or by the, like, it's her fault.

[00:45:49] It's their fault.

[00:45:51] Yeah.

[00:45:51] You know, any of that.

[00:45:52] No.

[00:45:53] And I sat in the bathroom this morning.

[00:45:54] I was like, okay, Amy, I don't like this.

[00:45:56] And that is okay.

[00:45:58] Like, get over yourself, baby girl.

[00:46:00] It's okay.

[00:46:01] It's okay not to like it.

[00:46:03] The crazy thing is none of us about us.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:10] That's where, that's where we screw everything up.

[00:46:12] It's like once, once we make ourselves the focus and it's crazy to think about.

[00:46:18] And I never thought about it that way until I got, I worked out with F3.

[00:46:23] And so I'm coaching, I'm talking to these guys through this workout that I put together.

[00:46:30] And this guy, he's struggling, but he's also a football coach.

[00:46:35] He's, he's a football coach overweight, but he brought some of his players out there.

[00:46:42] Oh, so he's a role model.

[00:46:45] So he's going through this thing and I'm, you know, and as a Marine, leave no man behind, but also F3, leave no man where you found him.

[00:46:55] And so I'm right there with him.

[00:46:56] And I'm like, dude, it was like, he's like, I gotta do it.

[00:46:59] I can't do it.

[00:47:00] I can't do it.

[00:47:00] I was like, what makes you think this is about you?

[00:47:05] What in your head makes you think that this is about you?

[00:47:10] He was like, all of those kids that you brought with you have completed this are at the finish line.

[00:47:16] And I'm back here with you.

[00:47:18] Tell me what part of this is about you.

[00:47:22] And he did them.

[00:47:24] He got through them and his kids watched him struggle and get through them.

[00:47:29] I'm like, dude, it's like, you're golden in their eyes.

[00:47:33] Had you quit that morning?

[00:47:35] I'm like, bro, you're done.

[00:47:38] And it was like, and we, we get in our own way.

[00:47:44] I think, yeah, I think both ways, because I actually said to myself this morning,

[00:47:50] Amy.

[00:47:51] Who's watching you?

[00:47:52] Yeah.

[00:47:53] Who's watching you have this tantrum?

[00:47:55] Exactly.

[00:47:56] And I said to myself this morning, Amy, if you need to stop, then you need to stop.

[00:48:03] You know, it's not quitting.

[00:48:05] It's not, you know, pull up your big girl panties and suffer.

[00:48:09] It's check in.

[00:48:11] If this is still the right decision for you, keep going.

[00:48:15] Yeah.

[00:48:16] If this is not the right decision for you anymore, then stop.

[00:48:20] It's not quitting because you're scared.

[00:48:22] It's not quitting because you're, you know, you're in your head.

[00:48:24] It's not, it's, you know, taking the own, your own power for your own body for Pete's sake.

[00:48:30] Like saying like, actually, this doesn't feel good for me anymore.

[00:48:33] And I need to stop now.

[00:48:35] You know, we can split hairs over.

[00:48:40] I'll tell you.

[00:48:41] Okay.

[00:48:41] I'll tell you.

[00:48:42] I'll just fess up.

[00:48:44] Yeah.

[00:48:44] I do not.

[00:48:46] I do not do well with coaches who, and this isn't for everybody.

[00:48:52] This is how I personally like to be coached and do not like to be coached.

[00:48:56] I do not do well when I am in struggle.

[00:48:59] When someone says, come on, Amy, because I have like 158,000% of come on in here that I'm trying to like.

[00:49:11] Quiet.

[00:49:12] Mm-hmm.

[00:49:12] You've got your own come on.

[00:49:14] I got so much come on, you know, that I, that's a hot stove for me, Jay.

[00:49:20] I keep my hand off that hot stove because the come on leads me into like shame and comparison and injury and just not enough.

[00:49:31] And all of it, it's a, it's a stinky place for me to go.

[00:49:36] And so when I'm being coached, come on are tough.

[00:49:39] And when I'm being coached, if I am telling someone, if they ask me, how do you like to be coached?

[00:49:44] I like to hear, um, you've got it.

[00:49:48] I don't want to be screamed at and I don't want to hear a come on.

[00:49:51] I just want, you've got it.

[00:49:53] I don't, I don't need, I don't need the come ons.

[00:49:56] If you need to yell, yell, but let your yelling be direction or instruction.

[00:50:08] It's like, don't tell me, come on.

[00:50:10] I'm coming on, dude.

[00:50:12] I'm coming as hard and as fast as I can.

[00:50:14] It may not look like much to you, but this girl is trying.

[00:50:17] I just, I just need to know where we're going.

[00:50:20] Like, show, show me where, how, once I get over this, like yell at me if you need to, which even in student ministries, which is why I never worked with middle school down.

[00:50:35] Hmm.

[00:50:36] Yeah.

[00:50:36] Cause I stepped into that space coming straight out of the Marine Corps.

[00:50:40] Oh.

[00:50:40] And I, my filter wasn't set up for like compassion and nurturing and tact in the framework of a middle schooler.

[00:50:53] And I was like, I couldn't, I can't tell an 11 year old they're stupid because it's something they did because they're going to go home.

[00:51:02] And then I got a fight of dad or argue with a mom.

[00:51:06] Cause I told her kid they were stupid.

[00:51:08] Although I was probably right.

[00:51:10] Well, I'll tell you what, if you told me I was stupid today, there would, I mean, in all reality, I would probably do the workout and the slink out and not come back.

[00:51:20] But in my fantasy world, I'd be throat punching you.

[00:51:24] Yeah.

[00:51:24] I just don't deal well with that.

[00:51:25] Now I've had athletes.

[00:51:27] I'll say two things.

[00:51:28] A, I've had athletes ask me that that's a motivator for them.

[00:51:32] And, um, I get it.

[00:51:34] I don't typically, I can't, I can't coach like that.

[00:51:37] Well, it's just not aligned with what I like.

[00:51:39] It's just, it wasn't a motivator.

[00:51:43] And I didn't know until I was 37.

[00:51:45] It was, it's an actual, like you did this.

[00:51:49] Oh, that's stupid.

[00:51:50] This was stupid.

[00:51:51] Yeah.

[00:51:52] Yeah.

[00:51:52] Now I can take that one.

[00:51:54] I'm never going to call you stupid.

[00:51:57] Like as in you're stupid, but understand.

[00:52:01] You're residing and stupidity is all over you right now.

[00:52:06] I need you to understand that this isn't what we do.

[00:52:11] But a high school or college young adult, I can have that conversation.

[00:52:16] Yeah.

[00:52:17] Um, even when we, when we pivoted into relationship coaching and, um, premarital and all of those

[00:52:25] things, you have to have those conversations.

[00:52:28] Oh, I totally get that.

[00:52:29] Thank you for clarifying, Jay.

[00:52:30] Yeah.

[00:52:31] That's totally, I usually say ding dong.

[00:52:33] You're being a ding dong.

[00:52:35] Yeah.

[00:52:36] And I still say that to myself sometimes now.

[00:52:38] I'm like, God, you're being such a ding dong.

[00:52:42] No, I just, yeah.

[00:52:44] I've, I've reached, well, it hadn't even been recent.

[00:52:48] It's been probably seven, eight years now.

[00:52:50] I've, cause I used to say it's the Marine thing.

[00:52:53] Stupid, stupid was, went with everything in the Marine Corps and I had to get away from

[00:52:59] it because it got to that point to where people, I knew what stupid I was throwing out.

[00:53:08] They didn't know what stupid I was throwing out.

[00:53:11] Yes.

[00:53:11] And Lynn pointed that out to me.

[00:53:12] So I made that adjustment.

[00:53:15] She's so smart.

[00:53:16] Yeah.

[00:53:18] Cause she, I mean, she lives with me.

[00:53:19] So she hears, she hears my, uh, she hears my wording different than everybody else.

[00:53:28] Yeah.

[00:53:29] And I'm like, what are you talking about?

[00:53:30] That was fine.

[00:53:30] He's like, no, babe, it wasn't.

[00:53:32] Well, and she's in branding.

[00:53:35] So I'm sure she has a very distinct lens for your, your personal branding.

[00:53:41] Yes.

[00:53:42] But even me, I mean, I'm, I'm ultimately overall, I'm an acquired taste as it, as it pertains

[00:53:48] to coaching, mentoring, advising anything.

[00:53:51] Um, because that like, I'm, I'm not a coddler, like I'm not going to coddle you.

[00:53:59] Um, um, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm more likely to kick you in the butt rather than cheer you on.

[00:54:09] And it's like, that's, that's why we do discovery.

[00:54:13] We do discovery sessions.

[00:54:15] It's like, let's spend 30 minutes together.

[00:54:17] Let's see if you even like me.

[00:54:20] Yeah.

[00:54:21] Let's do that.

[00:54:23] Cause I have men come to me all the time.

[00:54:25] It's like, man, I need you.

[00:54:26] I need you to coach me or I need you to mentor me.

[00:54:28] And I'm like, eh, I don't think you do.

[00:54:32] Is you think that?

[00:54:33] Okay.

[00:54:33] So let's just, uh, let's do this.

[00:54:39] What are, let's get crazy.

[00:54:44] Um, for people listening.

[00:54:47] Okay.

[00:54:50] You know, people are at different stages of change and people, um, are more willing

[00:55:00] they have more skills than others.

[00:55:03] You know, like I said, it takes me 45 times putting my hand on the hot stove.

[00:55:08] It may just take you somebody saying, Hey, you need a mentor to pull triggers and get a

[00:55:12] mentor or coach or whatever.

[00:55:15] How, um, can you express to people when they are ready to make changes in their lives?

[00:55:27] Because sometimes we think we're ready because we're uncomfortable with where we are.

[00:55:31] Mm-hmm.

[00:55:32] And then actually we do a half-hearted attempt or we slip into blame and complacency or we,

[00:55:41] you know, I don't know, say we're going to do something and then we don't again.

[00:55:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:55:47] How do you know you're ready to really make the changes?

[00:55:55] When you can look at yourself and identify that you do all of those things, that I'm a

[00:56:02] serial starter.

[00:56:04] Hmm.

[00:56:05] I'm a serial starter.

[00:56:08] Um, I'm okay with my shortcomings when I realized that I know nothing about me.

[00:56:24] Yeah.

[00:56:24] That's a big one.

[00:56:25] Most of my clients come to me and they don't realize yet that they don't know anything about

[00:56:29] them.

[00:56:29] Oh yeah.

[00:56:31] Um, especially first place.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:33] Yeah.

[00:56:34] You got, you have to, when it's that, well, that was when I knew I needed a coach and I

[00:56:41] was already in faithful.

[00:56:43] Like I was already doing this.

[00:56:45] Like I w I was doing it and some would say successfully, but I got to the point to where

[00:56:53] I was like, how I don't, I was like, I don't know anything else to do.

[00:57:00] Hmm.

[00:57:02] I know this isn't all because I still work in corporate America.

[00:57:08] Hmm.

[00:57:09] It's like, I know this isn't all because there's, there's more to do, but I don't know

[00:57:14] anything else to do.

[00:57:15] Yeah.

[00:57:16] And again, I'm normally the person in my group that knows what to do next.

[00:57:23] And I had to come to that realization.

[00:57:25] I like, dude, that's like, it's like, Jay, I got nothing else for you, bro.

[00:57:30] No.

[00:57:30] Okay.

[00:57:31] So when, when you don't know what else to do, when you have recognized that you keep

[00:57:38] doing stuff, but either not following through on them or it's not getting you the results

[00:57:42] you want, like you have gotten that promotion.

[00:57:45] You still do not feel fulfilled.

[00:57:47] You have lost that 25 pound.

[00:57:49] That's my favorite as a health coach.

[00:57:50] They just lost the 25 pounds.

[00:57:53] Yeah.

[00:57:53] They still don't feel confident.

[00:57:55] They still don't feel beautiful or capable or, you know, enough.

[00:58:01] And so they thought that they were buying all those things with the size six jeans.

[00:58:08] Right.

[00:58:09] And it didn't relate.

[00:58:10] And now they're like, wait a minute.

[00:58:13] So.

[00:58:14] Yeah.

[00:58:15] The why was wrong.

[00:58:17] Oh yeah.

[00:58:17] A hundred percent.

[00:58:18] The why, the why was wrong.

[00:58:21] Um, and I, I always look at things from, from the perspective of, of marriage.

[00:58:29] Um, just cause that's the most thing I deal with right now.

[00:58:35] But, um, I was, I was at a conference.

[00:58:39] This guy here just got married maybe three years.

[00:58:43] Um, and it was, it was the week prior to my 24th wedding anniversary.

[00:58:50] And I get up and I share at this conference and then I sit down and he comes over to me.

[00:58:55] He was like, listen, man, I know a lot of people are trying to get to you, but I need you to tell

[00:58:59] me like, how do I make it to 24 years?

[00:59:06] And I was like, it's like one thing he was like, he's like one thing, however many things

[00:59:11] you got.

[00:59:11] But if it was like something, I was like, be present.

[00:59:18] I was like, why'd you marry this woman?

[00:59:21] He's like, bro, it's like loving my life.

[00:59:22] My best friend, all of this good stuff.

[00:59:24] I was like, that's wonderful, bro.

[00:59:26] Now be present for the journey.

[00:59:29] Cause that woman that you said I do to, that's the last time you stood in front of that woman

[00:59:35] that next morning.

[00:59:38] She was now officially spent a whole 24 hours as a wife.

[00:59:43] Now she's going to expect husband things out of you that you didn't know you signed up for.

[00:59:50] Now, as she goes and she meets friends who are entrepreneurs who have come off of their

[00:59:59] nine to fives or separate herself from friend groups because they're okay working their nine

[01:00:07] to fives and they don't want any more, but now she wants more.

[01:00:12] You need to be present and aware of who she becomes to obtain that more because every time

[01:00:20] she wants something different, she has to become a different iteration of who she was

[01:00:24] to get to that thing.

[01:00:27] Now, if you stand by as a husband and you just watch and you're like, man, baby, she's killing it.

[01:00:36] You're not elevating with her.

[01:00:38] You're not being present for these changes.

[01:00:41] You're not identifying who she is at every step of the way.

[01:00:46] Linda and I, we would not have celebrated 25 years a couple months ago.

[01:00:51] So had I not realized the event planner Lynn wasn't the dental assistant Lynn, the interior

[01:01:02] designer Lynn isn't the event planning Lynn, the branding and marketing Lynn.

[01:01:10] And if you're not present for those changes and shifts, you're going to miss it.

[01:01:18] And you're not, you're not having your own.

[01:01:21] No.

[01:01:22] You know, I mean, it's very difficult to, uh, when you're a growth minded person, very difficult

[01:01:30] to surround yourself with people who are not growth minded and be fulfilled in those relationships.

[01:01:36] I'm not saying you can't have them.

[01:01:39] I'm saying they might not be the ones whose bubbles bump up against your bubble.

[01:01:44] Yeah.

[01:01:44] It's, it's, it's a hundred percent relation, relation, relational intelligence.

[01:01:50] It's understanding and identifying everyone in your life and make sure they have the proper,

[01:01:59] the proper job description for the space they occupy in your life.

[01:02:04] It was like, I'm not, you don't have to cut people off.

[01:02:07] It's like, I'm very rarely cut people off.

[01:02:11] Everybody plays a role, but as, as I'm growing, if you're not, and I see that, I understand that

[01:02:18] I just need to put you in a different department.

[01:02:21] Yeah.

[01:02:22] I'm not going to fire you.

[01:02:23] I don't do layoffs.

[01:02:26] Like I've been laid off before.

[01:02:28] I'm traumatized by layoffs.

[01:02:30] Like, I'm not going, I'm not, I'm not going to lay you off.

[01:02:33] You're not going anywhere.

[01:02:34] I'm just going to shift you to a different department and my expectations of you are going

[01:02:40] to lessen because I can't expect you to.

[01:02:43] You have the expectation.

[01:02:43] Yeah.

[01:02:44] Right.

[01:02:44] I can't expect, I can't put bestie expectations on you when you can't, you can't fulfill associate.

[01:02:54] Yeah.

[01:02:55] Expectations.

[01:02:56] Jay, please don't delegate me to the mailroom.

[01:03:05] I was just like, it's just putting people where they belong.

[01:03:08] That was like, you don't, I always tell, but you don't have to cut people off.

[01:03:12] It's just get, put them in their proper position.

[01:03:16] It was like, you don't have to remove them from your lives all the time, but there are

[01:03:22] occasions where pink slips have to go out and it's just, it just is what it is.

[01:03:29] And it's okay.

[01:03:30] Yeah.

[01:03:31] It's perfectly fine.

[01:03:32] It's okay.

[01:03:34] Oh gosh.

[01:03:35] I have loved this conversation, Jay.

[01:03:37] I think we're pushing an hour.

[01:03:39] So our time is.

[01:03:41] I know.

[01:03:42] We never even got to the holidays.

[01:03:45] No, we never got.

[01:03:46] Okay.

[01:03:46] Let's look.

[01:03:46] Okay.

[01:03:47] Amy, we got to do better.

[01:03:49] I know.

[01:03:50] Okay.

[01:03:50] Okay.

[01:03:51] So I'm going to give you questions and you're only allowed to answer with one sentence.

[01:03:58] I'll do the same.

[01:03:59] It can't be like a complex run on three paragraph sentence.

[01:04:02] All right.

[01:04:04] He got it.

[01:04:05] Okay.

[01:04:05] Here we go.

[01:04:07] What's an area of growth you didn't know you needed?

[01:04:17] Communication.

[01:04:20] Mine is emotional and surety.

[01:04:24] Area of growth you knew you needed, but thought you would never have.

[01:04:30] Relational intelligence.

[01:04:31] Patience.

[01:04:35] I'll just say patience because that's always true for me.

[01:04:38] What's in your morning routine?

[01:04:44] Read, pray, 30 minutes lifting, one mile, go to work.

[01:04:51] Okay.

[01:04:52] I do yoga, breakfast with a friend, CrossFit, recovery meetings, meditation in my pajamas.

[01:05:01] I like yours better.

[01:05:05] We'll swap later.

[01:05:08] What about the holidays challenges you?

[01:05:18] Not having my best friend and my grandmother.

[01:05:23] Yeah.

[01:05:26] Mine is just that my schedule gets wigged out and I don't do well when my schedule gets wigged out.

[01:05:32] So follow up question and we're going to end on this one.

[01:05:35] How do you successfully navigate those challenges that you just mentioned over the holidays?

[01:05:46] I feel them through.

[01:05:49] I feel them through.

[01:05:52] My grandmother and I, we cook together.

[01:05:54] So when I'm cooking on, on that night before I listened to the music we listened to.

[01:06:02] She was a Pepsi drinker.

[01:06:04] Oddly enough, I'm a sales manager for Coca-Cola, but.

[01:06:09] Traitor.

[01:06:10] Yeah.

[01:06:11] So it's like, she drank a Pepsi and cook.

[01:06:14] So I drank a Pepsi and cook.

[01:06:16] And then my best friend, Sunday morning, holiday, holiday mornings.

[01:06:23] We were always tasked with running the last minute errands.

[01:06:27] Hmm.

[01:06:28] And we drank Tahitian treat.

[01:06:32] It's project thing.

[01:06:34] It was like our drink as a kid.

[01:06:35] So we always drank it.

[01:06:37] And then we got to the family function that night.

[01:06:40] And then we fought over who got the last one.

[01:06:44] So holiday mornings, I always have a Tahitian treat.

[01:06:48] And then throughout that time, you know, I have my memories and I cry and I, you know,

[01:06:53] I cry my way through it and understand that, you know, if they were both here, they would

[01:06:59] want me to be loving on our family that is here, you know?

[01:07:04] So I do it.

[01:07:05] I feel my way through it.

[01:07:07] I love that.

[01:07:08] And also I want to know what is a Tahitian treat?

[01:07:13] So it's a fruit punch soda.

[01:07:16] Okay.

[01:07:17] So it's in a can or a bottle or something?

[01:07:19] It can be purchased both ways, but it's owned by Dr. Pepper Keurig.

[01:07:26] It's not like a super popular brand, but it's a brand that we always had in like our community,

[01:07:33] like corner stores growing up.

[01:07:35] Had it.

[01:07:35] So it was like always like our go-to drink of choice.

[01:07:40] And then again, we get to Thanksgiving and not even thinking about it.

[01:07:45] And then somehow we both end up at the drink table and it's only enough for one cup.

[01:07:50] And then we'd fight over it for 30 minutes.

[01:07:52] And yeah.

[01:07:55] So that was our thing.

[01:07:57] Oh, yeah.

[01:07:58] Oddly enough, that's also my wife's uncle.

[01:08:01] Oh, okay.

[01:08:03] Good.

[01:08:03] So she is, she, she is usually sharing a grieving space with me about him as well.

[01:08:12] So, yeah.

[01:08:15] But that's a different story for another time.

[01:08:17] We'll do this again.

[01:08:18] The next episode.

[01:08:20] Let's see.

[01:08:21] I deal with my lack of schedule by creating some pockets that feel like schedule.

[01:08:28] Like I do not play with my sleep schedule.

[01:08:32] Like if I have one or two nights that are crazy, I make sure I get back on it.

[01:08:37] I do not play with my solitude time.

[01:08:42] I don't play with like my exercise time.

[01:08:45] If I need exercise time, outdoor time.

[01:08:48] Yeah.

[01:08:49] I make sure I'm like, if I'm operating on like a 30% schedule time.

[01:08:55] Um, yeah.

[01:08:57] Cause it makes me crazy.

[01:08:58] No.

[01:08:59] For sure.

[01:09:00] You gotta have it.

[01:09:01] You gotta have something.

[01:09:03] I'm blessed.

[01:09:03] I'm the only morning person in my house.

[01:09:05] Oh.

[01:09:06] So I'm good.

[01:09:07] Like I was out at five 30 this morning, you know, getting after it and I'm back home before

[01:09:13] anybody's awake.

[01:09:14] So.

[01:09:14] Yeah.

[01:09:15] Yeah.

[01:09:16] Now my, when I stay with my mom and I stay with her about once a month for a few days,

[01:09:22] she's a very early morning person.

[01:09:24] And so by the time I get up, she's already had two cups.

[01:09:27] Right.

[01:09:27] So I'm up at six.

[01:09:28] She's up at four 30.

[01:09:29] Okay.

[01:09:29] She is ready.

[01:09:31] And I get to see her once a month and she's 81 and I want to have conversations with her.

[01:09:35] So it's, it's not me giving up me.

[01:09:38] It's me committed to something else.

[01:09:40] And so we have these conversations right first thing in the morning.

[01:09:44] But when I come home, I'm like, Oh, the quiet upon waking is so.

[01:09:51] So what are you, what are you doing with those conversations with your mom?

[01:09:55] Um, Jay, they go everywhere.

[01:09:58] They, it really just depends on the day and you know, that girl still works full time,

[01:10:02] man.

[01:10:03] She, if she's going to teach school that day, she's leaving at six 45 in the morning.

[01:10:08] So, um, those conversations are usually quick and you know, what are we doing for supper

[01:10:13] and what, you know, that kind of thing, just getting on the same page and Sunday morning

[01:10:18] conversations are really special.

[01:10:21] We usually talk about deep stuff, how we're growing, what we're struggling with, what

[01:10:28] we think about her in adult, um, in advanced age.

[01:10:32] What's my role.

[01:10:33] How can I stop controlling her health?

[01:10:37] How can I let go of, I'm indeed not in charge.

[01:10:41] You know, she's not in charge.

[01:10:43] God's in charge.

[01:10:44] We don't know what's going to happen, you know, stop trying to protect her.

[01:10:49] Those kinds of things.

[01:10:50] Mostly my sanity.

[01:10:52] Yeah, no, that, well, that's, yeah, that was next, next thing.

[01:10:56] Um, I would say, I mean, you have this platform.

[01:11:00] Um, I, I would start, I would start having interviews with her.

[01:11:06] Hmm.

[01:11:06] Yeah, actually I did one last year.

[01:11:08] Yeah.

[01:11:09] And it was bad.

[01:11:10] Just start doing, doing that and documenting that.

[01:11:14] Um, cause I, you know, again, my family, we just, I just, we didn't talk about our family

[01:11:21] history and things like that.

[01:11:23] And my grandmother, my, my last grandparent, she passed last year.

[01:11:28] And gratefully I got to spend a random Saturday, three hours with her.

[01:11:33] And she starts talking to me about when she was a little girl.

[01:11:38] Yep.

[01:11:39] And I was just like, you mind if I record this?

[01:11:44] It seems like, I don't know what you're going to do with it, but go ahead.

[01:11:47] And she let me record it.

[01:11:49] And we talked for three hours about just her growing up, how she ended up in Wilmington,

[01:11:53] all of these things, and just gathered all of this information about her.

[01:11:58] And then probably five weeks later she passed and, um, wasn't, wasn't, wasn't sick or anything.

[01:12:07] Just went, took a nap and didn't get up.

[01:12:09] And, you know, it was sad, but I like, I have that.

[01:12:14] And like, I have those files and I'll listen to them every once in a while.

[01:12:20] Just, uh, you know, and a lot of the stuff she shared with me, like her kids didn't even know.

[01:12:26] Yeah.

[01:12:26] No, I, um, when we have those conversations, it's a lot about like how, how mom grew up

[01:12:31] or what I'm struggling with, what I'm currently struggling with or growing through and how she

[01:12:37] could relate to that or couldn't how sometimes I'm more like her mama or her sister.

[01:12:43] And she gives me a different perspective, you know?

[01:12:47] Um, uh, yeah, those, those conversations are pretty priceless.

[01:12:53] Yes.

[01:12:55] So, so I will get up and I will talk.

[01:12:57] I mean, two minutes after my feet hit the floor, I take a pee, I take my Synthroid and

[01:13:02] then I'm talking to mama.

[01:13:04] Yeah, for sure.

[01:13:06] Gotta take advantage.

[01:13:08] Yeah, you do.

[01:13:09] All right.

[01:13:09] So this has been such a fabulous conversation when people want to talk to you because they

[01:13:15] will want to talk to you.

[01:13:16] How can they get in touch with you, Jay, if they're interested in coaching to see if they're

[01:13:20] ready?

[01:13:22] Um, www.

[01:13:24] www.f8, the number eight, T-H-A.com.

[01:13:28] Um, there, Instagram is search faithful to the assignment.

[01:13:34] Um, I'm the only one.

[01:13:37] Um, and, uh, yeah, when you, if you're even curious, let's, let's sit down and talk about

[01:13:44] it.

[01:13:45] Okay.

[01:13:46] It was like, if you don't need me, I'm sure you need someone.

[01:13:50] Everybody does, right?

[01:13:51] People need people.

[01:13:53] Absolutely.

[01:13:54] Yeah.

[01:13:55] Yeah, I get that.

[01:13:56] Um, and we'll put everything in the show notes.

[01:13:59] So if you're listening to this and you think Jay is awesome and you maybe could have a little

[01:14:05] slice of what he has, then click the link and go talk to Jay.

[01:14:12] And don't forget to give yourself some grace because it's tough to look at all that poopy stink stink we do and to take responsibility for it.

[01:14:20] But once you start, the whole new life opens up to you.

[01:14:24] And if you love what you've heard, you're a little bit curious.

[01:14:26] And if you love what you've heard here or you're a little bit curious, don't sit on your hands.

[01:14:31] Click a link.

[01:14:32] You can have a consultation with me.

[01:14:34] You can have a consultation with Jay and get started on creating a life that you really love.

[01:14:39] Stop being greedy with yourself.

[01:14:41] Come out here and play big.

[01:14:43] All right.

[01:14:44] Happy holidays, everybody.

[01:14:45] Thank you, Jay, for coming.

[01:14:47] Absolutely.

[01:14:47] Thank you for having me anytime.

[01:14:50] Yeah.

[01:14:51] You see, we went way over time.

[01:14:53] Way over.

[01:14:53] We could do this again.

[01:14:55] All right, everybody.

[01:14:57] Happy holidays.

[01:14:58] Take care of yourself.

[01:14:59] Like, subscribe, share and click those links.

[01:15:03] Bye.

[01:15:06] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Healthy AF Podcast.

[01:15:10] I hope that it has helped you create a new possibility for your health

[01:15:14] and sets you into action to go get it.

[01:15:18] If you want more information or if you want to connect with me,

[01:15:21] visit my website at myhealthylife.coach.

[01:15:25] And don't forget to hit the subscribe button so that each new Healthy AF episode will be sent directly to you.

[01:15:33] Let's take you from where you are to where you want to go.

[01:15:46] You've been listening to The Mesh,

[01:15:47] an online media network of shows and programs ranging from business to arts,

[01:15:52] sports to entertainment, music to community.

[01:15:55] All programs are available on the website as well as through iTunes and YouTube.

[01:16:01] Check us out online at themesh.tv.

[01:16:04] Discover other network shows and give us feedback on what you just heard.