Origin

[00:00:00] Footcandle Films, Film News and Reviews from two guys who really like movies.

[00:00:19] This episode is brought to you by the Footcandle Film Society. For a schedule of upcoming

[00:00:24] screenings and membership information, visit the society's website at www.footcandle.org.

[00:00:36] Hello and welcome to Footcandle Films here on the MESH.TV podcast network. I am Alan

[00:00:42] Jackson with me is Chris Fry. We are both with the Footcandle Film Society and the annual

[00:00:47] Footcandle Film Festival. But today we are here on the Footcandle Films podcast. Chris

[00:00:53] how are you doing? I am doing well. I'm interested to of course I am always interested to sit

[00:00:58] down and talk about movies but you and I both seen this movie but we did not see it together

[00:01:03] and I'm really curious as to your thoughts. Well we're going to get to that in just a

[00:01:08] moment. The thoughts on the film that Chris is alluding to is the film Origin, the latest

[00:01:13] by writer director Ava DuVernay. We will be discussing that film in just a moment and

[00:01:18] giving a review of our shared experiences in watching this film. After that Chris and

[00:01:24] I have a slew of movie news to discuss some upcoming productions, some release dates

[00:01:31] being announced, some interesting director's choices and projects I want to explore a little

[00:01:35] bit, some definitely some news to dig into a little bit later in the episode. We will

[00:01:39] get to that shortly. The first as we said let's go ahead and jump into our review of

[00:01:44] the film Origin.

[00:01:55] Everywhere. All over the place. There is connective tissue. All of this.

[00:02:14] All of it. Is linked.

[00:02:24] Nothing that you are with is about Wilkerson or her book Cast the Origins of Our Discontent.

[00:02:30] I wasn't exactly sure what to expect with the film that director Ava DuVernay had made

[00:02:34] from it. DuVernay whose previous films included Salma and the documentary Thirteenth adapted

[00:02:40] Wilkerson's book into a biopic of sorts that followed Wilkerson as played by Agnew Ellis

[00:02:46] Taylor as she researched the book Origin and struggled to write it. What was your experience

[00:02:53] with this film?

[00:02:59] It's going to be a little tricky for me on this. I'll explain why because I'm of several

[00:03:03] different minds of this film. I want to go ahead and say right off the bat. You said

[00:03:07] you know this is a film that is quote based on a book although it's a very interesting

[00:03:13] approach. It is based off the book. It's not a direct adaptation of the book. It is exploring

[00:03:20] the themes of the book.

[00:03:21] Because the book is a nonfiction book.

[00:03:22] The book is nonfiction and the book in the movie that now joins it. It's really talking

[00:03:27] about this unspoken system that is referred to as cast system that has in the authors

[00:03:34] of belief. It has shaped America and chronicled how people live today and how we are defining

[00:03:40] ourselves in this hierarchical structure and using examples like race relations in the

[00:03:46] United States and using a caste system in India as different reference points. Those

[00:03:52] are all things explored in the book in a nonfiction book. Taking this into a film to say, okay,

[00:03:58] how can we explore those things? Share this knowledge and belief system and explore it

[00:04:04] with the audience. But couching it in a narrative that happens to be a little bit of a meta

[00:04:12] commentary on the author and the inspiration she had for writing the book and what she

[00:04:18] was going through in her personal life during that time. Okay. That all being said, that

[00:04:23] is description right there. That's a lot. It is a lot. And I think that's where I'm

[00:04:28] going to come down on this film is that it's a lot. And I do think it's trying to accomplish

[00:04:33] two different things. I think it's very successful. And one thing I don't think is very successful

[00:04:39] in the other. I understand there's a desire to take this nonfiction book and this topic

[00:04:49] and explore it. And I think that there was a desire to say, let's make this more palatable

[00:04:55] to an audience by couching it in this narrative with actors and having a kind of a drama going

[00:05:02] along with it involving the author. I don't think that part of the film works. And I found

[00:05:08] myself so utterly fascinated by the actual direct interpretation of the book. The stories,

[00:05:17] the examples, the research involved in the caste system and how it has been pervasive

[00:05:25] in our society. That to me was interesting. That to me was really well done. I think there

[00:05:30] are several sequences and flashbacks, but sequences, historical, dramatic interpretations

[00:05:37] of scenes and characters. I thought we're really all good. I really enjoyed all that.

[00:05:42] I think I would have been fine with a film that kind of just stayed on that. And I just

[00:05:50] felt like when we kept coming back to the author and what was going on in her life,

[00:05:54] I had a really hard time understanding the connective tissue that made it necessary to

[00:06:01] do this, to this extent, and to pack this much into this film. When I feel like it could

[00:06:06] have really honed in on the things that worked so well and been so much more of an effective

[00:06:11] film. So that to say, look, I think it's a fascinating topic. I put the book on my Amazon

[00:06:18] wish list to start reading because I'm fascinated by the concept, the topic. I think it's a discussion

[00:06:23] people need to have. I think it's something that's important for our society to explore.

[00:06:28] I do question the need to layer in the narrative drama in this film that I don't feel like

[00:06:37] really had a place and I don't feel like it really ultimately added up. I don't think

[00:06:43] all of these pieces added up to some of those parts in the end of the day. I felt like there

[00:06:47] was about half the film that didn't work where the other half worked extremely well.

[00:06:53] So that's where I am with it. It's a little distorted. It's a little over place. Ultimately,

[00:06:58] I'm recommending the film because I think it's an interesting watch. But I don't think

[00:07:02] it's the best well crafted film choices they could have made to tell this story. Chris,

[00:07:08] I'm going to turn it over to you now because I feel like I'm rambling and not making sense.

[00:07:12] Well, it is like, you know, I kind of said, kind of hinted at my hand. It is a film that

[00:07:19] is doing a lot and kind of echoing what you said about the recreations or the flashbacks

[00:07:26] of events in history that kind of are examples of like the caste system. They do some exploration

[00:07:33] of Nazi Germany and they show some things there. And then they show like things in India like

[00:07:39] you were mentioning with the caste system. And I thought those were blended creatively

[00:07:44] within the film and that they kept the film moving and kept me interested. This film is

[00:07:49] almost two and a half hours. And that being said, I felt like it moved for me. It didn't

[00:07:54] kind of there was always something moving it forward. You mentioned kind of the some of

[00:08:01] the things that were not in those flashbacks or recreation scenes. And they were basically

[00:08:07] people talking over ideas that I'm assuming were directly from the book. And those worked

[00:08:14] for me. And I think it's kind of a because of the actress that I mentioned who's playing

[00:08:23] the writer Isabel Wilkinson, or Wilkerson Taylor. And she knew people may recognize her from

[00:08:31] what she did in King Richard, where she played the wife to Richard. Yeah. And she was really

[00:08:39] like a strong person in that. And I think her being a strong person in this movie, she

[00:08:44] can tell this person's really driven. She's, you know, a writer and she's really dedicated

[00:08:49] to what she does and really wants to dive into her work. Yeah, I get all that. So I thought,

[00:08:54] had it been anybody else, I'm not sure it would have been as a convincing portrayal.

[00:08:58] And I'll say the people that in two instances, Connie Nielsen plays somebody who actually

[00:09:04] kind of pushes back. She plays Sabine and she has this conversation about some of the

[00:09:12] theories that are going on in Wilkerson's book. And she kind of pushes back to Wilkerson

[00:09:16] about what she's saying. And Wilkerson just kind of sits there and kind of disagrees

[00:09:21] with it, but tries to take in what this person's saying. There's another scene where she kind

[00:09:26] of goes around and interviews people with different experiences to try to, you know,

[00:09:31] get material for a book. Aldra McDonald plays Miss Hale and she tells a story kind of recounting

[00:09:38] how she grew up and tells a story. And if you'd had lesser actors doing some of that,

[00:09:46] I don't think those parts would have worked, but I can see what you're saying. I mean,

[00:09:52] Isabel Wilkerson, she had three different things. She'd lost three different people that were

[00:09:58] very close to her in her life. And granted, seemingly because of the compact nature of

[00:10:03] the film, it was just like, my goodness, it was almost like too impossible to believe.

[00:10:08] Well, and that kind of, and that in addition to trying to show the progress of the book

[00:10:14] maybe kind of get through people in here. And I don't want to be insensitive to it, because

[00:10:18] I mean, I understand this is a pseudo biography blended with a adaptation of a book of that

[00:10:24] said author. Yeah, because it only documents her during the time she's writing this book,

[00:10:28] right? And yes, I mean, obviously this did all happen to her while she was writing this

[00:10:32] book. I found myself struggling, Chris, to understand what it is we were to take truly

[00:10:38] from the turmoil she went through in her personal life, which I think was all presented extremely

[00:10:45] well, and acted extremely well. I mean, I think the performances were all really good.

[00:10:50] But I wonder what all of that fed into the rest of the movie, like the exploration of

[00:11:00] the cast system. And I mean, like you just said, I thought one of the best moments was

[00:11:04] the sit down discussion she had with Miss Hale, I just mentioned. And again, I know that

[00:11:09] was quote an acted scene, but it was obviously based on something real that, you know, as

[00:11:14] Bill Okerson either knew or had somebody that we were just seeing a dramatic interpretation

[00:11:19] of that dialogue. All of those scenes work. But then when we are led to kind of go back

[00:11:24] to see Isabel's personal life, and the things happening in her life, and what's happened,

[00:11:31] I just had a really hard time understanding what were we supposed to, what was that supposed

[00:11:36] to be impacting the other 75% of the story that we're hearing. And again, that's the

[00:11:43] part of the film I felt like, you know, I just don't, I don't think it fit. I don't

[00:11:47] think it worked. I feel like it packed more into the film than it needed. I get it. I

[00:11:54] think I understand that, you know, yes, it's interesting. And it's I'm sure an exploration

[00:11:58] to understand that during writing this very pivotal and important book, this author did

[00:12:03] have all of this happening in her personal life. And yes, that's, that is something worth

[00:12:08] a story of telling. But when you've got a film like this that spends so much of its

[00:12:12] time on those really big important concepts and stories. And then you're flipping back

[00:12:19] to a personal story that I didn't really see the connection that makes them help me

[00:12:23] understand why, why are we doing this? You know, and it just. And I think it's a little

[00:12:29] too much dichotomy there. And I just, I really wanted them to hone in on the things that

[00:12:33] work so well, because that itself made for an excellent movie. So yeah, and I think you're

[00:12:38] saying, basically, they were, it's like they were switching gears. And when they were in

[00:12:42] the gear of the topics that were covered in the book, that was working for you. But when

[00:12:47] they would switch back to the personal life gear, it was kind of the transition wasn't

[00:12:51] smooth and you didn't see how they kind of worked together. And I can, I can see that

[00:12:54] basically from if I'm hearing what you're saying, for you, it would have worked better

[00:12:59] if they would have been like basically a biopic of this author kind of telling her

[00:13:03] story and how she wrote the book, but then a separate thing, basically, maybe a documentary

[00:13:08] of just the ideas presented in the book and that trying to combine the two, it just wasn't

[00:13:13] a marriage work. Both are equally of interest, or something worth telling a story of, but

[00:13:20] You know and I think the film in a way kind of also kind of started to feel that way the filmmakers by the end because I noticed the last probably 30 minutes of the film it was all the exploration of the cast system and the stories and the dialect and there was like hardly anything on a personal side and I think it's like yeah because this is this is this is the film this is what we're telling this is what we don't people to take away from it's like it almost felt like even they realized yeah there wasn't a lot of connective tissue between

[00:13:49] what was happening in her personal life and some of that storyline and what we're really trying to make this film about so okay that's the kind of the feeling I got now I will say the film pulled off something that I I'm gonna give it tons of credit for I mean I get I give this film a lot of credit I think it's an important film I think it's a a very passionate film by by Duvernay and I'm glad it was made I'm glad it's being seen

[00:14:15] the ending of the film you know you have your your narrator voiceover kind of summing up a lot of the concepts that we've been learning about and hearing about and thinking about these last two hours and she the author and I and this was from the book I did find out so it wasn't just written for the filming this is from

[00:14:33] okay this home analogy this house analogy old house analogy to represent everything at that point I'm like okay I kind of I'm seeing now the house yes what was happening in the house is a physical man of a representation of what what the what this bigger picture stories about okay so at that point they started it started to work a little bit where I'm like okay there was some connection with what was going

[00:15:03] on her personal life but it still wasn't enough to to make that whole that whole part of the team just film justified for me so again I feel I feel a little guilty make the make this comments because again both both sides of the stories are being told are extremely good and important stories and I want to hear more about them I just feel like when you're trying to put this together into a film and you've got such important messages to share I just feel like it it it it lost sight of that from time to time by trying

[00:15:32] to balance both sides and didn't deliver on a fully cohesive story that really could have been as as impactful as it needed to be that being said I do think acting was was great across the board I'm with you I think I just knew it was

[00:15:50] great in this role granted a lot of her role did spend of reading voice over narration and asking people almost interviewing people and listening so it wasn't as much to do in some situations but the times that she did get a chance to let the character of his

[00:16:09] bill workers and be a real character on screen it worked and she did really great with it I thought Nissi Nash was really great as her cousin Marian very very good performance there too so I was really impressed with that and then a lot of the other roles much smaller roles for everybody else I mean they had some specific scenes but

[00:16:34] everybody pretty strong though that was in there well in case so you know I've overall seems like I'm giving a little bit more of a pass to some of the stuff that was dealt with the author's life seems like I'm overall however I will say you mentioned to the cast there's a lot of different people because she's talking to a lot of people she's bouncing all over the world she goes to India she goes to Berlin she's you know she's you know world traveler going all over the place.

[00:16:58] Two things that did not work for me were two cameos one I know one of them really didn't work. The other one felt too slight but Nick Offerman has a cameo as a plumber and actually in the credits he's like Larry the plumber so it's like they couldn't even.

[00:17:16] And he is coming to the house that you're talking about and to like you know look at a situation that she's called on there Isabel Wilkerson needs this house worked on and calls him there and their interaction just seems to be so stereotypical and they don't just let you kind of learn it but they feel like they want to make sure that you know what kind of character Nick Offerman is so they put a maggot hat on him and I'm like you know what is going on.

[00:17:46] You didn't need that and that was two like two in your face handfisted for me I agree it wasn't the acting in this scene it was just the dialogue they were given and what and I understand obviously you can guess what they're trying to communicate but that didn't work.

[00:18:01] The other one that didn't work for me but to a lesser degree was Vera Farmiga she's basically the book agent for Wilkerson and they were doing some interesting things there where she was kind of pushing back a little bit just like the Connie Nielsen character

[00:18:16] when she they were having that discussion like I don't think you have she was challenging Vera Farmiga's character the agent was kind of challenging Wilkerson on like I don't see what you're doing I don't think you have a book here but it was so surface that I felt like it was just kind of like it was it was a little clunky to me both of those were a little clunky.

[00:18:35] I felt like there was a lot of these roles that probably were probably had more dialogue more scenes more more involvement in a more fleshed out version but at the same time realizing that they're so much going on being put in this film that different scenes different characters I kind of got the impression got a lot shorter shift.

[00:19:00] The Nick Offerman scene I'm completely with you actually when that scene started it was a bit groaning for me because I'm like okay yeah this is about on the nose as you can make it and I don't think I think we would have picked up on what was going on just as clearly without having to like slap the big red hat on the guy and call attention to it's just it was a bit much.

[00:19:22] And again I don't fall off from in for it I mean performance is great and Elle Taylor's performance was great in the scene it's just it was very much on the nose and that that was a little bit of a miss.

[00:19:32] I don't feel quite the same way about the very Farmiga Kate role but I felt like that was just an underused role where there could have been more with all of these characters I mean that's the thing is that the film was really a you really are truly following two to three characters and then everybody else was kind of a they had their select

[00:19:51] scenes and moments of impact on the story and then that's it and well and it's one thing it's a little bit of a sprawling feel because it's like okay there's somebody we saw we only saw them for two minutes early in the film that we're seeing them for another minute and that's about it.

[00:20:05] Blowing it to me it's it's one thing if the Nick Offerman Larry the plumber or Vera Farmiga's character had been played by somebody that's not famous and that's one thing but the fact that they're famous and you know you can tell by the way they even shoot the person.

[00:20:19] Oh this is somebody I should know that that to me was kind of distracting because they weren't it was like just so they could have another name in the credits of somebody who was famous or whatever.

[00:20:28] So I don't know just it felt a little a little flat for me now I will say and we've already talked about how the recreations of the film I think for both of us those were kind of some of the stronger points because it's it's feeling in on some of things that we don't know about her nonfiction book about the cast system and things and those were the more effective parts of the film.

[00:20:51] Favorite scene probably for me and probably one of the most powerful was a flashback pool scene and that was later in the film when that's done and it also actually paired with a motif that she had kind of in the beginning of the film which was a flashback but not talking

[00:21:09] about the cast system but was basically it was the writer Isabelle Workerson kind of lying on some leaves and they're all like dead fall leaves and she has it's kind of like that's kind of a motif that they touch on.

[00:21:23] They touch on it twice actually and then all this time later in the film lying on the ground on a blanket basically and instead of there's like green grass and another kind of interaction about lying like and so the cinematography and those two moments or three moments

[00:21:38] I guess, I really I really thought that was good. There's good cinematography, and those points like that helped kind of tie the moment that was happening with the pool and then right after that there's this lying on the ground moment that it makes more sense once you see the film but I thought those were really, really well.

[00:21:56] I'm with you I think the the pool story it's a 1950s story or 50s or maybe early 60s story about a public pool and dealing with segregation and some bigotry involved in the point there with a with a young baseball team and one of their players.

[00:22:15] It really it was a standout element of the film and I love the setup for it because it's this idea where you had Wilkerson interviewing someone in the movie who was involved in the the story that we're about to see them recounting the story then we seeing the story and just so well done the way it was presented.

[00:22:36] And then you add in that that imagery that you were discussing the leaves and the laying down with between Wilkerson and the young boy, it it just everything worked in that.

[00:22:48] That was a perfect thing. I kind of wish going after seeing that I kind of wanted to go back to some of the other stories and like tell that tell these stories again and use that same style and format and do that same thing because it works so well here at the end of the film.

[00:23:05] There was and I'll mention something okay drawing for me but it I was fascinated by it and it wasn't it wasn't a recreation but there's an individual that they cover and this is kind of in the India section.

[00:23:19] And then there was a very educated person and he kind of leads his bell Wilkerson around Indians like explaining stuff to her and apparently that was him he was playing himself in the film which you know it was kind of distracting because I kind of felt like I bet that's who this is because you can just

[00:23:39] tell his personality and if it would have just been a documentary and him going around like I could have probably got so much more but the fact that he's being put into this context and it's like okay he's playing himself but he's in this recreation of something that happened.

[00:24:00] It just I know it was a lot going on I admire the film just like you're saying but I wish yeah I think I'm kind of thinking that it would have worked better split as a documentary and then as you know.

[00:24:11] Well the thing is Devernay has shown that I mean she's equally adept at both dramatic films and documentaries and I think Selma was an amazing film and I think so well made I think 13th is an amazing documentary.

[00:24:23] So she can do both right and I felt like this film was trying to do both and that's where I'm like it just it was just a little too too much to process for and I felt like unfortunately when you have more to process in your own mind watching something it automatically

[00:24:42] deletes the impact that either storyline could have and that was a bit of a shame because I mean this film needed to have it needed that real punch impact that the story warranted and it got close and it was really tried to get there especially

[00:24:57] by the end when they kind of abandoned a lot of the personal story and said we're just going to hone in on like she's there's a whole sequence like the whole last 20 minutes it's a whiteboard and it's her coming up with these concepts

[00:25:10] and you're hearing these stories and she's talking to people like that's the movie that that worked that was good you know that's where we're getting somewhere.

[00:25:18] And but again not to say look I didn't mention I mean we mentioned a lot of the actors in the film John Bernthal did play her husband Brett and granted a somewhat limited role in the film.

[00:25:32] And again it is part of that side of the film that I felt like didn't blend well and didn't really add to the overall picture.

[00:25:39] But I really really like the depiction of their relationship you know in the early parts of the film between Isabelle and Brett was really good so and even the role of her mother, you know Emily yance played Ruby Wilkerson.

[00:25:53] Also very good so I like that it's just give me a film of that story because that story is interesting enough.

[00:26:00] And then maybe it's a kind of a blended documentary movie about the caste system and the interpretation and the adaptation of the book itself might have worked.

[00:26:13] So a little bit of a sub note on this so this was a film that did not get any major studio backing and being produced Netflix was at one point connected and then backed out of the project.

[00:26:25] So actually it was funded through a consortium of non profit organizations that Duvernay kind of help solicit from.

[00:26:33] So it's not a quote self funded project but it's not a big studio project either.

[00:26:39] So it was a true grassroots kind of building up.

[00:26:42] I think that's great because I think that gave DuVernay the chance to make the film she

[00:26:46] wanted to make.

[00:26:48] Sure.

[00:26:49] I wonder, and I say this a little facetiously, I wonder if a studio had actually bought into

[00:26:54] the project, if there had not been a desire to say, hone in, strip it down, let's focus

[00:27:01] in a little bit more, whatever, not to say that the studio would have made it better.

[00:27:04] I'm not saying that, but I feel like this is the sign of a project where somebody's

[00:27:08] really did not have to really work with any restrictions and say, "I can tell the story

[00:27:12] and do everything I want to do on the film."

[00:27:14] And it's all good, just it's a lot to do.

[00:27:18] It's a lot, and I feel like that ultimately impacted the takeaway from the film.

[00:27:22] I felt like that watered down that impact a bit more than it needed to be.

[00:27:26] Because yeah, I spent the whole last 30 minutes of the film like, "Okay, how is the mother

[00:27:31] and her husband and her cousin, what does that have to do with what we're hearing?"

[00:27:38] And I shouldn't be asking those questions in the last 20, 30 minutes because the stuff

[00:27:43] that's being covered is so important and so impactful.

[00:27:46] So anyway, that's where I am with this film.

[00:27:49] I think it's a really great feat of a film.

[00:27:54] I think it's an important film.

[00:27:55] I do people should watch it and people should talk about it, but sometimes being an important

[00:28:00] film doesn't always mean it's the best constructed film to tell that story.

[00:28:06] I think there could have been some improvements here.

[00:28:09] Yeah, I think we're on the same page.

[00:28:12] Okay, it's definitely, I do recommend people check it out.

[00:28:16] We had a great conversation about the film immediately afterwards.

[00:28:19] I hope you did on Wednesday night, the night before as well.

[00:28:22] There's a lot to chew on, there's a lot to talk about, there's a lot of interest here.

[00:28:26] It's an important film.

[00:28:27] Just I think it could have been a little tighter, a little more focused, and I think it could

[00:28:33] have really been more impactful at the end of the day.

[00:28:35] So, that is origin.

[00:28:38] I think it's still getting some theatrical play right now, at the time of this recording.

[00:28:44] I don't know what the plans are for where it will be available online.

[00:28:47] Someplace not available now for rent or anything, is it?

[00:28:50] I don't believe so.

[00:28:51] Okay, all right.

[00:28:52] Don't think so either, but definitely keep your eyes peeled for this.

[00:28:55] It is worth checking out.

[00:28:56] It is worth, I think, having a good watch and a conversation about the film afterwards.

[00:29:00] So we wholeheartedly do encourage that.

[00:29:03] All right, Chris, we've done with origin.

[00:29:06] Have you seen?

[00:29:07] Yes, you say.

[00:29:08] No.

[00:29:09] Okay.

[00:29:10] Well, then let's take a quick little break and when we come back, we've got some movie

[00:29:12] news to share, several news items of interest to us about some upcoming movie productions

[00:29:17] and announcements.

[00:29:18] So stay tuned, you're listening to footkindlefilms here on the mesh.tv.

[00:29:23] We will be right back.

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[00:29:44] Welcome back to footkindlefilms here on the mesh.tv.

[00:29:47] We had our review of the film Origin in the first half of the show, but now we're moving

[00:29:52] on to talk about some news items, some upcoming movie release dates or announcements of new

[00:29:57] productions that we want to share and discuss here on the show.

[00:30:01] Chris, I think we have a few items here, so I've got maybe one more than you do.

[00:30:05] So how about if I go ahead and jump in with my first one?

[00:30:08] Is that okay?

[00:30:09] That'll work?

[00:30:10] Okay.

[00:30:11] June Squib is an actress.

[00:30:15] You may remember her from the film Nebraska.

[00:30:17] Yes.

[00:30:18] That was the Alexander Payne.

[00:30:21] Alexander Payne film that had Will Forte and Bruce Darn, I believe.

[00:30:27] June Squib was in that.

[00:30:29] I think she got an Oscar nomination for a supporting role in that film as well, yep.

[00:30:34] So here was kind of an interesting announcement.

[00:30:37] I know she's done some other works in between some parts here and there, but at Sundance,

[00:30:45] there was a film that was shown.

[00:30:49] It was an adventure comedy called Thelma, starring June Squib.

[00:30:56] Okay.

[00:30:57] Directed by Josh Margolin, the film follows a grandmother who embarks on a quest to recoup

[00:31:03] her money after she loses $10,000 in a phone scan.

[00:31:07] Okay.

[00:31:08] Now, the understanding is, and unfortunately we don't have a trailer yet to see of this,

[00:31:14] but the reports from Sundance are that it is truly an action comedy in that Miss June

[00:31:21] Squib gets to do some stunts.

[00:31:22] There is action, there is, yes.

[00:31:26] So basically, here's the quote.

[00:31:27] This is from Variety, Variety reported, the publication Variety reported this in talking

[00:31:33] to the director, said, "Tom Cruise jumping out of a plane that's as dangerous as my grandma

[00:31:38] getting onto a bed," Margolin told Variety ahead of the premiere.

[00:31:42] "I wanted to treat Thelma's mission with the sincerity and stakes that you would even

[00:31:46] hunt globe trotting to track down the bad guy."

[00:31:50] So the film has Richard Rountree in his final performance before he passed away is in the

[00:31:57] film, Parker Posey, Clark Greg, and Malcolm McDowell are all in the film as well.

[00:32:02] And the film is based on an event that actually did happen to Margolin's own grandma, a 103

[00:32:08] year old Thelma Post.

[00:32:09] So the film is based on his own grandmother.

[00:32:11] Who did get involved in a phone scam.

[00:32:15] I do not believe his grandmother actually hunted down the person that scammed her.

[00:32:19] But that's what Thelma and this movie does.

[00:32:21] So I don't know if the movie is any good or not.

[00:32:25] It did get bought by Magnolia Pictures after seeing it in Sundance, so it will get a release.

[00:32:33] It is the first leading film role of June Squib's career.

[00:32:36] She's 94 years old, Oscar nominated actor.

[00:32:39] She insisted on doing her own stunts for the film, which included a vehicular showdown

[00:32:44] in the hallway of her retirement home, culminates with an electric scooter crash.

[00:32:50] Gee, this sounds great.

[00:32:55] I'm looking forward to this now, absolutely.

[00:32:58] I have always wondered what it would be like to try to treat smaller stakes stories with

[00:33:07] the same intensity and sincerity of a big action movie, a big Tom Cruise action movie.

[00:33:14] This may be showing what that could look like.

[00:33:17] I am much more interested in seeing Thelma than I am dead reckoning part two.

[00:33:23] I forgot that's still coming out, too.

[00:33:25] Yeah, I mean, no, it sounds really, really fun.

[00:33:29] That is I don't have a release date on it.

[00:33:32] Again, it just showed it Sundance and just got purchased by Magnolia Pictures, so they

[00:33:37] will be releasing it.

[00:33:38] But, I mean, the film is done.

[00:33:39] It's just now, it's just got to get on a release schedule.

[00:33:41] Yeah, too.

[00:33:42] So we will keep our eyes open for that, but I was excited to hear June Squib, action comedy,

[00:33:47] the movie is Thelma, coming soon either to a theater screen or possibly to a live streaming

[00:33:54] service in the near future, we hope.

[00:33:59] Okay.

[00:34:00] So Chris, what do you have for us?

[00:34:01] So Alan, I'm going to tell you about two films that are going to be coming out and you have

[00:34:07] to choose one of the films to see.

[00:34:11] Okay.

[00:34:12] Okay.

[00:34:13] Yep.

[00:34:14] All right.

[00:34:15] So the first is Moana 2.

[00:34:16] It is a sequel to the original Moana, which you have not seen.

[00:34:20] Well, that, okay.

[00:34:21] So yes, point of question.

[00:34:22] I have not seen the original Moana.

[00:34:25] Okay.

[00:34:26] Moana.

[00:34:27] Yes.

[00:34:28] So that could be impacting my decision as you get to the second choice.

[00:34:31] Okay.

[00:34:32] But let me go ahead and give you a little bit more detail about this, the sequel.

[00:34:35] It will not have the involvement of Lin-wen Manuel Miranda, who wrote a lot of the songs.

[00:34:41] I think some of them were actually Academy Award nominated for Moana.

[00:34:45] He is, he is not involved.

[00:34:46] He is not involved in Moana 2.

[00:34:48] Correct.

[00:34:49] Okay.

[00:34:50] Now, the young lady who played or did the voice from Moana, she will be returning.

[00:34:57] And her name is, I mean, she, her name is Auli Kavalia or something, butchering her name.

[00:35:03] But she will be coming back to this animated, this animated thing.

[00:35:07] We don't know at this point, the article that was in USA Today didn't specifically say whether

[00:35:13] or not the rock was coming back, but she will be in this, in this movie.

[00:35:17] Okay.

[00:35:18] And it is a movie.

[00:35:19] It was originally going to be a TV series, but they decided to expand it and put it as

[00:35:24] a theatrical release, and it will be coming out the day before Thanksgiving in 2024.

[00:35:29] Another, another point of question.

[00:35:31] Yes.

[00:35:32] So, Disney was quoted as saying that it was originally going to be a TV series, but then

[00:35:36] they decided to expand it and take a TV series of an imagine would have had at least six

[00:35:42] or eight episodes of 30 minutes each.

[00:35:45] And they're expanding it by shortening it down to a one 90 minute movie.

[00:35:50] I'm not sure how long, but yes, yeah, yeah.

[00:35:52] Okay.

[00:35:53] All right.

[00:35:54] I'll go, I'm sorry, but that's, she's, she's coming back.

[00:35:58] She's, okay.

[00:35:59] All right.

[00:36:00] So she's the lead, she was the lead actress, a voice actress in the original Moana.

[00:36:03] She is coming back, but the rock, oh, yeah, you haven't mentioned the rock yet.

[00:36:06] Well, no, no, I say we don't, it hasn't been mentioned if he's coming back playing the

[00:36:10] Maui, kind of the other character that we don't know.

[00:36:13] The Lin-Manuel Miranda is not coming back.

[00:36:15] Right.

[00:36:16] Who did all the songs and stuff.

[00:36:17] Okay.

[00:36:18] Okay.

[00:36:19] Got it.

[00:36:20] So that's the first movie.

[00:36:21] Yes.

[00:36:22] Okay.

[00:36:23] I'm gonna film that I'm sure you're going to be equally as excited about.

[00:36:27] They are making a live action remake of the first Moana.

[00:36:32] And this will be starring the rock, reprising his role as Maui, but it's live action.

[00:36:38] It's a live action remake.

[00:36:40] And the girl who originally played Moana is not returning.

[00:36:43] All right.

[00:36:44] So Chris, you know, one of these, one of these two movies, you have to be, you have to say,

[00:36:48] I'm going to, that, that's the one that I think is.

[00:36:50] Wow.

[00:36:51] Okay.

[00:36:52] So you know, my feelings on the live action Disney reinterpretations of their films.

[00:36:57] Yes.

[00:36:58] Not, not a fan.

[00:36:59] Not a fan.

[00:37:00] Not a fan.

[00:37:01] I thought the little meringue was fine as someone who had never seen the animated film

[00:37:09] of it.

[00:37:11] I did not ever see the Aladdin version because I just, I just, I'm not going to.

[00:37:16] I do think the animated version is classic, so I did not want to see it.

[00:37:20] Lion King, I did see, it just, I have a tough time with these.

[00:37:25] You saw the Jungle Book and reviewed it.

[00:37:27] Yeah.

[00:37:28] Yeah.

[00:37:29] The Jungle Book actually thought was okay.

[00:37:30] Okay.

[00:37:31] I did like the Jungle Book, but I, I'm not been a fan of any other live.

[00:37:34] We see live action.

[00:37:35] Is these photo realistic animals in a lot of those cases too?

[00:37:39] So it's, and I really liked Cruella and I don't think you were as big a fan.

[00:37:43] Yeah.

[00:37:44] But Cruella, I don't consider a re-imagining, I don't consider it a re-adaptation.

[00:37:48] It was never a Cruella animated movie.

[00:37:50] True.

[00:37:51] You know, I'm talking about when you take a true, like, we've already done this and

[00:37:54] now we're going to re-do it as just a live action.

[00:37:57] That's where I don't, I'm not a fan.

[00:37:59] Yeah.

[00:38:00] Cruella, I thought was fun.

[00:38:01] I, I did enjoy Cruella quite a bit.

[00:38:02] Okay.

[00:38:03] So that's where I have an issue.

[00:38:04] So, okay.

[00:38:05] So from Boana, I'm not a fan of their approach, but seeing as how I haven't seen the animated

[00:38:11] film of Moana, if I had to have a choice between those two, I guess I'm watching the

[00:38:16] live action or adaptation of Moana, because I didn't see the original, so why would I

[00:38:21] see Moana too?

[00:38:22] And it sounds like Moana too, honestly, has got the, it's got a little bit of that stigma

[00:38:27] on it now of that Disney cash grab sequel status that they were really big on.

[00:38:33] I know back in the 90s and 2000s, it was like every big film they did, animated film,

[00:38:38] they would have a either direct video sequel, which they did for a lad.

[00:38:42] They did for a lad.

[00:38:43] They did for Lion King.

[00:38:44] They did for several things.

[00:38:46] It never had the same voice talent or, you know, or lost a lot of the talent on the voices.

[00:38:52] You could tell the budget was nowhere near as high.

[00:38:54] It was just, it was a cash grab.

[00:38:56] And that's a little bit now what Moana too is kind of sounding like if they're not having

[00:39:01] a lot of the big people that were involved in the first one.

[00:39:04] And they are changing the format from TV show to movie kind of quickly.

[00:39:08] Yeah.

[00:39:09] And that sounds like a, we got to make some money off this guy.

[00:39:11] So basically I was, I was playing devil's advocate because I'm, I'm not really, obviously,

[00:39:16] I don't really care if the, I liked the first Moana a lot, but I'm not interested in seeing

[00:39:20] either of these.

[00:39:21] If I had to choose, I would actually go with, even though you're saying, you know, I can

[00:39:25] understand production value, the rock hasn't attached himself to the animated sequel, but

[00:39:30] at least it'll be like a new story and hopefully original.

[00:39:33] So that'll maybe make it interesting.

[00:39:35] Whereas the live action thing, yeah, if it's nothing but a retail, I really, it's kind of

[00:39:38] like you're saying with a little mermaid, why are you saying with a Latin, why just

[00:39:43] stay with the original.

[00:39:44] And especially because this Moana is so new that live action remake, it's not like you're

[00:39:49] bringing it to a whole new audience.

[00:39:51] No, the audience probably remembers the animated original.

[00:39:55] So to me, if I had to see one, I would probably.

[00:39:58] And I think it's a problem that we go towards the animated sequel, although neither one of these are obviously the top of my anticipated list because we gave that the last show. But I believe you had a rundown of the slate that Disney announced. And apparently this is unfortunately kind of a common or current or it's like this is a sequel, but it's not even the I think there were other sequels as well. But, yeah, so the Walt Disney Company Bob Iger gave an announcement.

[00:40:28] Just yesterday about their upcoming major upcoming animated films. So the Walt Disney studio, of course, still putting out animated films and they have their release schedule for that. And there's a lot of numbers after the names of these films because they're all sequels.

[00:40:46] We have Monatou, which you just mentioned, that is slated for November 27th. Then we have Zootopia II, which is coming out in the following year, November 26th, 2025.

[00:41:02] And now we've been announced that there's going to be a Frozen 3, which I've forgotten they made a Frozen 2.

[00:41:11] You're probably not the only person. I do not. Yeah. My children have all grown, so we are out of the Frozen zone. And I'm not aware of the sequel, but yes, there's a Frozen 3 now.

[00:41:21] Okay. In a Toy Story 5. Wow. That to me is both of those 2026. Yeah, I'm a Toy Story 5. I feel like one of the few people that actually really appreciated Toy Story 4. A lot of people feel like they can't, with the third one, they felt like, you know, leave it at the trilogy.

[00:41:40] Why are they doing the fourth one? I felt like there was enough there in the fourth one that I thought was warranted. But a fifth one, I just hoo, yeah.

[00:41:49] Well, but I'll play devil's advocate a little bit. Sure. Yes, when they announced Toy Story 4, I remember the groans across the entire Internet world.

[00:41:57] Sure. Oh gosh, why are we doing this again? We had a trilogy ended. It was a great ending. We stopped. But then people saw Toy Story 4 was like, oh, yeah, that was actually really good. So we really liked that.

[00:42:07] I mean, that brought us forky. I did bring us forky. So yes, we're kind of going through the same cycles with 5. I'm sure for the next year or two, we're going to be talking about how why are they making a Toy Story 5?

[00:42:18] The fourth one was so perfect ending. Why did they stop? And then there's a good chance we could watch a Toy Story 5 and be like, oh, yeah, obviously we needed this. This is perfect.

[00:42:28] We introduced this time a plastic knife or something. I don't know, but we'll see. But yeah, that's coming.

[00:42:38] The thing for me, Chris, is that this is Walt Disney announcing their major animated film releases in their all sequels.

[00:42:47] Yeah, that's what's tough. I know that the Walt Disney Company, we've talked about it how they had some struggles, you know, their Star Wars, they own the Star Wars franchise.

[00:42:58] And that has had some hardships. We've talked about ad nauseam. They own the Marvel films. And that has had a year or two of some diminishing returns and people not as happy with the output.

[00:43:09] And then causing by a buyer to say, yeah, we're going to have to kind of back up and like clean slate a little bit and get really super focused on the things that really work and not worry about quantity.

[00:43:21] Let's worry about quality. Like, well, it sounds like I'm going to show started from day one, but you know, so better late than never.

[00:43:28] But you know, when I hear this, I'm like, yeah, okay, they're just playing the hits and there's no chances being taken. And I'm disappointed that there's not some new original animated film or some new creative idea.

[00:43:39] No, it's let's take four of our ones that made us money and we're going to figure out a crank out another one. And it's just disappointing, just a little disappointing. So, yeah.

[00:43:52] We talked about, well, we didn't really talk about Tim Burton and Beetlejuice last week. We mentioned the fact that, you know, is one of your anticipated Beetlejuice, which is what they're calling it by the way, I think, saying it twice, which I think is hilarious.

[00:44:08] It's ingenious. Did not make your top 10 list of anticipated films because you had your caveat of it not being sequels or remakes on there. Got it. Understood.

[00:44:17] I am very anxious to see Beetlejuice Beetlejuice because I want a return to form of Tim Burton. I want the creepy weird Tim Burton. Sure. I want it full blazing going all full tilt Burton.

[00:44:31] I want full tilt Michael Keaton. I want it all. And I hope this film can deliver. But let's look past that. Okay. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, I think it's this fall. I think it's like September or so this year, if I remember correctly.

[00:44:46] Okay. It has been announced that we know what his next film that he will be tackling Tim Burton will be, which is one interesting. I get where he's going with it, but just has some interesting notes to it.

[00:45:00] Is it a sequel as well? Three make. And it's not through Disney. He is with Warner Brothers now. And Warner Brothers is who's releasing the Beetlejuice Beetlejuice movie. Okay.

[00:45:11] Warner Brothers was the original release of Beetlejuice. Right. And he's staying with Warner Brothers for this film as well, which I think is encouraging because I do think the Disney side of him might have created the Tim Burton.

[00:45:24] And I fell out of favor with the Dumbo, the Alice in Wonderland, all of that. But Remake, he's done Planet of the Apes and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[00:45:34] Okay. So we have another remake. Okay. But it is working with writer Gillian Flynn. Now Gillian Flynn is a gong girl.

[00:45:45] So she has written her novel Dark Places, was adapted as a limited series for HBO. She did the screenplay for David Fincher's film Gone Girl. She took her book Sharp Objects into an HBO miniseries as well.

[00:45:59] So now this film is being written by Gillian Flynn, this remake of Attack of the 50 Foot Woman. Now think about this. Okay. Okay.

[00:46:11] Doing a what could be considered a campy remake of a 1950s sci-fi film. Right. But you take a writer like Gillian Flynn writing the script for it, which obviously you and her work.

[00:46:27] It's a lot of social commentary. There's some really great concepts being explored in her work. Okay.

[00:46:34] I don't know. I could see this being a little more than just Tim Burton having fun with a remake of a film he wants to play with.

[00:46:41] Well, okay. Yeah. I'm very interested in that film. I mean, yeah. Okay. So the other two remakes that I mentioned, Charlie and Chocolate Factory, Plan of the Apes. Both of those are really well known IP.

[00:46:56] And, you know, they're really well known. Attack of the 50 Foot Woman. Yes. I have heard of the film. I have never seen it. So the fact that they're taking something like that. Yeah. That sounds fascinating to me.

[00:47:12] Well, okay. So if you're not familiar with the original film, and it's been a really long time since I saw it. Oh, so you've seen it?

[00:47:17] A long time ago. Okay. Yeah. The science fiction horror story follows a wealthy heiress who grows into a giant after an alien encounter and exacts revenge on her cheating husband.

[00:47:29] Okay. Yeah. That's where I'm like, that sounds like something Gillian Flynn was involved in. All right. Now they're saying, obviously, it's unclear at this point how closely this remake is going to be to that same exact script.

[00:47:41] You know, it was a 1958 movie. There's the varieties reporting of the first film carried a budget of $88,000. So this is probably going to cost a little more than that. Sure.

[00:47:54] But yeah, it is with Warner Brothers, which I think, again, I'm happy with that too, because it kind of doesn't have that Disney umbrella over it to kind of keep it in a certain space.

[00:48:07] He could go as weird as he wants in theory. He would hope so. He would hope so.

[00:48:12] And I'm going to say, well, okay. So not knowing. I'm assuming beat of juice, beat of juice will probably be like a PG-13. Yes. I would have said it.

[00:48:21] I'm curious if an attack of the 50-foot woman would try to, because, you know, exacting revenge, it could be like horror comedy type thing, but maybe go the R route.

[00:48:31] Look, I mean, they could be. I mean, I don't know what the tone will be. Sure. Think about the invisible man movie that they made with, what was her name? What was her name? What's the actress's name? Oh.

[00:48:43] Shoot. From Mad Man. Elizabeth Moss. Elizabeth Moss. And that one was played super serious, super straight, and it had a lot more relationship dynamics to it. I mean, there was a lot of drama involved in that. Right.

[00:48:56] I mean, I don't, I'm not going to be terribly surprised if this movie is actually kind of played with a little more of an edgy, serious feel to it.

[00:49:04] I mean, you can take this ridiculous premise of a woman who's grown huge, but I mean, if it's a revenge thing, if it's a, you know, kind of fighting back on society against things that are norms that they have placed on them, I don't know.

[00:49:17] There could be some interesting things to play with. Okay. Yes. I'm very curious to see where the tone of this goes. Is it a campy remake? Is it a very faithful remake, or is it a let's take it into a very different direction as a true drama quote horror film?

[00:49:34] And we don't have any actress attached as of right now. I mean, you mentioned Elizabeth Moss. She could be really good.

[00:49:41] That would actually be really good. Yeah, she would be great. Yeah. Nothing else has been said. Bill Juice, Bill Juice comes out September 6th. Okay.

[00:49:50] But supposedly this will be the next project he works on after that. So we will see with that. I'm, come on, Tim, just get me back on board. You got two movies possibly coming out in a row that I'm very interested in seeing what's going to happen.

[00:50:05] Did you watch any of his Wednesday television series that he did Netflix? I did not. Not that it was. No, I heard it was good. I heard it was good. So I don't want to make it sound like Tim Burton's done nothing at all. But that's been good.

[00:50:16] It's just, I think in general, the level of output has just not been what we were used to. Sure. Previous decades. But there's always hope. There's always hope. We'll see what these next two films bring out for him.

[00:50:30] All right, Chris. Well, that is what we've got for today. That was our discussions. That was our news. I am to share. Do we miss anything? No, we miss anything. Yeah.

[00:50:40] If anybody has any comments or questions or anything about any of the news items we shared or maybe some thoughts on origin, they like to share with us. We'd love to hear from as well. How can they, how can they get ahold of us?

[00:50:50] You can send an email to info@footcandal.org. You can follow us on Twitter @footcandalfilm. Facebook. We're there as Ffootcandal Film Society. And we're also on Instagram and threads just simply Ffootcandalfilm.

[00:51:03] Alan I also on Letterbox where we try to like track what we're seeing and sometimes leave quick takes. Do us a favor. If you like the show, consider giving us a star rating, write a review, share with your friends or whatever service you receive your favorite podcast on because it could help us reach new listeners.

[00:51:18] All right. Well, we're going to wrap it up. And we, of course, have the Ffootcandal Film Festival 2024 edition coming in late September, but we've got plenty of time to still talk to you about that. But just keep it in radar.

[00:51:31] Don't plan on anything major events in your life. Don't plan any weddings. Don't plan any family vacations that last couple of weekends of September because you can mark September 6th as Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.

[00:51:43] And then leave vacancies for the rest of September so you can make sure you can come to the festival.

[00:51:47] Right. Yes. That's the plan. All right. Well, thanks so much for listening. And we will look forward to talking to everybody next time. Take care. See you in the ticket line.

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