Part 1: The Carnivore Diet & Human Performance with Dr. Anthony Chaffee

[00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the Unscripted Pharmacist podcast. Today I have a special guest, Dr. Anthony Chaffee. He is a neurosurgical resident. He'll tell us where he's doing that. But he has been in this space, in this carnivore space, actually for a long, long time as he's learned how to fuel his body and prepare and be competitive as a rugby player.

[00:00:29] So not only is he looking at this from a professional standpoint, but also from a personal standpoint as essentially what is the best way to fuel his body. He's known for an amazing talk and probably definitely something that I have repeated over and over again and pushed me a little bit closer to the edge until finally I said, okay, I'm going to try this carnivore thing. But he's known for an amazing talk. It's plants are trying to kill you.

[00:00:58] You know, like, it was, it was very, it was a really important talk. And I took, I took a lot of pieces home with that and said, okay, this makes total sense. How can I change my own life? And for you, I mean, I really need to thank you for what you've done for me personally, because this is you and many other pioneers in this field have said, hey, this, this is an alternative to the, for me, it was a ketogenic diet.

[00:01:28] Which I did for years. And I finally switched over because of people like you, Sean Baker, Brian Sanders, and just looking at all the evidence. And I want to get into some of this, this evidence. I know you're such a, an amazing history buff in like the diet, the diet and history, bringing it together. I think it would be a really good movie. But anyways, welcome Dr. Chafee. Well, thank you very much for having me. It's great to see you. Yeah.

[00:01:57] Oh, I was just going to say too, I'm, I'm, so it's called a neurosurgical registrar, which is sort of like a resident in the U S. Yeah. It's sort of the same sort of thing. But at the moment, I've just sort of, sort of switched gears. I'm not working in neurosurgery at the moment. So I've sort of put that on hold. And overseas, you can actually do that in America. You're just like, you go through until you're done or else you're out. Really? Yeah. I've been doing a metabolic health practice now.

[00:02:24] I was sort of optimizing people and their health and, you know, diet and lifestyle and nutrition. That becomes a big part of that. It's really nice to be able to apply these, these principles to my patient population and see chronic diseases that are still right now considered irreversible. You cannot put them into remission. It's only going to be medication for the rest of your life and it's only going to get worse. And we're seeing the exact opposite of that. And so that, that's been really, uh, that's been, you know, really, really fulfilling. And eventually we'll get back into neurosurgery, but there was a friend of mine who owned this practice.

[00:02:53] He was sort of had to retire. I was sort of forced into retirement and it would have had to drop the whole practice and left a lot of people in the lurch. And so I just put things down for a bit and took over just to help them out. Step in. Fantastic. I bet that's so rewarding. It is amazing, huh? What do you use? What do you use? What's your, what's your walk me through your, I mean, you obviously look at labs very carefully. You inspire people like you do normally, but what else?

[00:03:23] Well, it's, it's always individual for each individual patient. A lot of people coming in for, for different reasons. A lot of it's through word of mouth, like we don't advertise or anything like that. I don't use my social media channel to advertise or anything like that. I don't sort of mix those two. Um, and, um, and so a lot of it's word of mouth. And so people have just been sort of let down by the traditional standard of practice. Yeah.

[00:03:51] They're going to their doctors, they're going to primary care or the GP. And, you know, they're saying, Hey, look, I don't feel well. I'm not feeling good. I'm putting on weight. Am I feeling great? And they just give this sort of standard. Well, look, all your bloods look fine. And, you know, just eat less, move more and all that sort of stuff. They just get worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And they have to see this too, you know, because they, they see the same patient for 30 years and they're only getting sicker. They're only getting worse. All their patients are only getting worse.

[00:04:19] And now they start getting sick and they're like, Holy shit, it's happening to me. And I have no idea how to stop this train. And there's a lot of burnout. There's a lot of burnout in the profession because you just sort of realize that like, you know, sort of futile, you know, you're not, you're not doing any good, you know, and, um, and so a lot of people burn out. There's a high suicide rate in medicine. And then, you know, when you sort of address this in a different approach and people start getting better and they start improving, obviously that's very rewarding.

[00:04:46] A lot of doctors are, are sort of revitalizing their careers and stop being burnt out because you're like, okay, it actually works now. I can actually do something that helps people. So I'm, I'm, I'm dealing with those people. I'm dealing with the people that the normal medical approach hasn't, hasn't worked for. Totally failed. Yeah. Yeah. And eat less, move more doesn't work. And, um, yeah. And we can't run a bad diet. You can't.

[00:05:13] How is it going with convincing doctors to say that they're wrong? It's not really fair. I really just feel like we're all, we've all been victims. We've been victims of a horrible narrative here. And it's, I, I find that either for myself as well as other physicians feeling like you've been betrayed and kind of duped and lied to. Are you, are you finding that with, when you, when you, it's almost like you need a physician training course, you know? Yeah.

[00:05:43] I mean, there, there are things out there. I mean, like even just the key to, you know, the, all the, the science and evidence behind like ketogenic approaches to things, you know, like the nutrition network, you know, that's a professor Tim Noakes is, um, project down in South Africa. I mean, it's, it's an actual like university course, you know, that you're with a textbook and all. And it's, it's extremely, um, heavy in the science and biochemistry and the research. And so there, there's a ton of evidence out there.

[00:06:10] There's a ton of information out there, but it's, it's not being taught in medical schools because it's medical schools are, are largely captured. They have a lot of corporate capture. So the, the food and drug companies basically own the medical schools and the research institutions and their universities because they pay and fund a lot of their research. And that's, it's just basically a bribe. They will give you all this money to your research and your medical school and your this.

[00:06:35] Um, but they've really absolutely influence the curriculum as well. And it's even a veterinary world. I talked to vets and there's just like the curriculum in veterinary school is driven by the pet food companies and you know who owns the pet food. Most of the pet food manufacturer is that the, the human junk food, uh, companies like Mars. So like Mars bars, like they own most of the, the pet food, um, Mars. Really? Mars.

[00:07:05] Yeah. And so, you know, the, you have this, they can our pet sick. Yeah, well, absolutely. And they're getting all the diseases we get, you know, we're getting, like feline lupus and like doggy diabetes, you know, when people are injecting their dog with insulin, when the hell has that ever happened? Cats. I know it's gross. You know, it's, it's just, it's just bizarre, but there's this huge corporate capture of, of the medical institutions. Doctors are being trained to just, trained to just be basically, you know, the frontline,

[00:07:34] you know, salesmen, the sales reps just out here pushing medications. Or you could think about it, you know, the drug dealers on the corner, you know, they're just, they're just the front man, you know, uh, that you interact with to get this product. And you have, and that's what a lot of people do. They're like, Oh, I'm sick. I need to go get medicine. How do you do that? You go to a doctor. That's the intermediary, right? Okay. Well, I want to get, you know, um, you know, someone wants to go and get drugs and get high. What do you do? You go to the drug dealer, you know, that's the intermediary, them and the cartels.

[00:08:03] So it's the same sort of thing. It's the same paradigm. They're just, they're just drug cartels. It's just that they happen to be legal. And, uh, but it's the same, it's the same model, you know, get people sick, uh, or get people hooked to their product, have them on for the rest of their life. And you get, you keep getting that return customer. So you get kids eating sugar, there's sugar in a baby formula, things like that. You know, they get them hooked from birth. And then there's sugar addicts for the rest of their life and they get sick, they get

[00:08:31] diabetes, they ate some kids and all of a sudden now you're on diabetes medications for the rest of your life. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's extremely profitable to get people sick and get them sick early and get them dependent on these drugs. You know, Goldman Sachs, you know, got, you know, was a leak, had some things leaked about saying like, you know, is it really a good business model to cure people of diseases? And the answer was of course, no, because if you cure the disease, you only get to treat them once.

[00:08:59] But if you just treat the symptoms and never address the root cause, then you can treat them for the rest of their life. And, um, there's a company Gilead, which I remember seeing in my intern year, 2013, that they came out with a cure for hepatitis C. And I was like, whoa, that's great. These guys are doing great. I wasn't even thinking about like, well, maybe this is something I should invest in. They're actually going for cures. That's a, that's a big deal. And, um, and Goldman Sachs had the opposite, um, notion with them.

[00:09:28] They sent them this, this missive basically saying, you really messed up. You never try to cure a disease. You just get a treatment that allows people to live with the disease for the rest of their life. So you can get this return on investment. And, uh, you know, there's, there's the memos available, but you know, there's, if not an explicit, there's at least an implicit, you know, um, statement there saying that like, look, if you're making these stupid business practices, you know, you're not going to get investors and things like that.

[00:09:57] So, um, you know, it's, it's the, the, these groups are pushing for not getting cures. They're pushing to just treat the symptoms and to make doctors this intermediary. So, I mean, they know what's going on. They could go for cures. They're choosing not to, and they're using the medical establishment as, as their, their front men for this. And to make it look all dressed up, you know, it's just like a money laundering operation. You know, it looks legit. Right.

[00:10:26] Oh yeah. We're trying to help. And no, we're trying to cure disease. No, you're not. No, you're not. Gilead did. But you're not. But I, Gilead makes remdesivir. I hate that. Oh, do they? Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah. You know, that's what I was like, that's the worst company ever. Well, but that's the thing too. You know, maybe, maybe they, they took that to heart. You know, they got that things like, Hey, you need to, you need to change what you're doing. Don't try to cure things. Just try to do whatever. Well, they did a good job on not curing anything.

[00:10:55] It was supposed to, that remdesivir was supposed to like not COVID in its tracks. Right. Yeah. But I don't even, it didn't do anything other than hurt people. I remember the hospital, you would give that drug and all of a sudden they'd be Brady, Brady, Brady cardiac. They would, their heart rate would really drop. Or you go like, well, how many of this person's liver function tests? Their liver is taking a hit. What is going on? I don't know if you saw that in a hospital during COVID, but it was, it was awful. Like, and we're paying for this drug and we're paying for the complications of this drug

[00:11:25] and it doesn't do anything. Reduces, I think it reduces symptoms by a portion of the day. It's kind of like the Tamiflu. Yeah. And there was two, two studies. One showed it might be helpful. The other one showed it wasn't. That's what we go off of. Yeah, exactly. So American Diabetes Association, this is my pet peeve. When I started working as a diabetes educator was all about, okay, know the guidelines. You got to know the guidelines, follow the guidelines.

[00:11:55] Diabetes is a progressive disease. Eventually you're going to end up on insulin. You get some education. Your A1C is nine. We start you on insulin. I've seen so many patients and you've probably seen as well. They should get started on insulin and they never take them off. They never, they never get started on the right med, which probably would be a metformin and some education, but they just start them on insulin. And then they just never, nothing ever changes other than the dose goes up, right? And they always get fat.

[00:12:22] And a drug that increases all cause mortality. This is ridiculous. But it's, the ADA keeps pushing this, but I feel like there's one, one really major secret. And that's what, something that we were never taught in school. And that was that insulin, that metric, that, that lab of insulin is what we're just, we're not seeing it. No, we're told not to measure it. We're told that we don't have guidelines.

[00:12:50] We don't have, um, uh, appropriate assay to be all standardized assay. How much longer do you want to fight over this? Because insulin goes up when disease, when disease appears and we're missing that lab where we're just skipping it or we're getting a lipid panel. The answer's right in front of them. And we're looking at cholesterol. Yeah. So it's like, I think the ADA personally, I think as long as you keep taking money from

[00:13:17] insulin manufacturers and you keep pounding that, that stupid narrative that it's insulin is used only to lower glucose. It comes in a vial, right? That I feel like was the biggest little secret. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, insulin, yeah, insulin is such a, it's such a busy and active hormone. It affects hundreds of different physiological processes in your body and your brain and completely disrupts other hormonal cycles as well as blocks autophagy.

[00:13:45] Um, it's an anabolic steroids that causes tissues to grow, but generally the ones you don't want to grow, your fat first and foremost, uh, skin tags, rectal pulpit, polyps, prostates, uterine fibroid, you know, the muscular layer in your arteries. So they thicken up and you get high blood pressure. You know what I mean? This stuff that causes a lot of problems when it's out of balance, like it's extremely important as I just illustrated, it affects all these other sorts of things, but it, you need it in balance. You need it at the right level.

[00:14:13] And when you, when you bring it up with, um, eating, you know, carbohydrates, like a lot of carbohydrates and your insulin comes up now it's out of balance for everything else as you've now knocked it out of whack. So, uh, it's a really bad idea. And, and yeah, the ADA, you know, they, they recommend, um, no, you don't need to, you don't need to limit carbohydrates, just dose your insulin appropriately. Okay. Yeah. Well, it's because you're selling insulin, you know? I mean, that's, of course that's a recommendation. Balance. It's all about balance, right? Yeah. Sure. You got to balance your carbs.

[00:14:43] Yeah. Well, it's just, oh, well, you see in the hospital. Like, well, I mean, we've used ketogenic diets for hundreds of years for diabetes. I mean, that was the only treatment that we had for type one or type two diabetes. The only thing that could keep type one diabetics alive for any amount of time. Some people, you know, for a protracted period of time, even decades. Um, and, um, you know, and then we're, we're trying to say, no, no, no, no, no, that's, that's, that's fine. Oh, don't worry about the carbs. We're talking about carbohydrates.

[00:15:10] We're talking about, you know, blood glucose levels and keeping that down. You know what a really easy way of keeping your blood glucose down. Don't eat any carbs, don't eat glucose, don't eat it in the first place. Your body will make a very normal amount and then you just dose your insulin appropriately. Or if with type two diabetes, a lot of people are reversing their insulin resistance and, and hyperglycemia naturally. And, and coming off, you know, all, you know, Harvard studies showed that, you know, all the

[00:15:36] diabetic patients came off 100, 100% of the diabetics came off 100% of their injectable medications, including insulin. And so it's the money saved and, and, and the amount of prescriptions that you can't fill now because somebody is off of insulin. What, what, but what are you using as a tool to, to, to help guide these patients as, as they're, as you're removing meds?

[00:16:02] Like I know Virta Health, Virta Health, Virta Health is kind of where I started. I've been trying to copy them since the beginning. Oh my gosh. Sarah Hallberg, Steve Finney and Jeff Fulich is like, oh my gosh. Oh, but I mean, that, that was where I started. And it was, it was Sarah Hallberg going, ignore the ADA guidelines. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, what do you mean? This was in 2015, the tent talk. I don't know how many hits it has now, but it's amazing. So I remember looking at it going, okay, so what's she talking about?

[00:16:31] Let's look up all these, this, these panelists, this, this committee, that guideline committee, right? Who are these people? There was three quarters of a million dollars that was split amongst like 20 investigators, right? Like you guys, how in the world can you do this? How, how in the world can ADA allow that? How in the world can ADA, now this is really going to piss you off. I'm sure you already know this, but the ADA has only one vegetable, one, one vegetable. And it's a potato.

[00:17:00] Holy cow. Like a broccoli, something else? A potato? Like, oh, for a quarter million dollars, to me, wouldn't be worth the mud on my face in 10 years time when you go, wait a minute, what were you thinking with a potato? Yeah. No, I don't know. I mean, I did see one of their, one of their, um, recipes on their, um, website where they said, it's like, oh, this is a good recipe for a diabetic.

[00:17:27] And it had like, it was like a cucumber and sweet and sour cucumber salad. Right. And so, and, and part of the recipe was a quarter cup of sugar. This is, this is like presumably one surfing, right? So it's like a quarter cup, uh, for one person or something like that. But, um, um, you know, maybe it was for more people, but quarter cup of sugar, fricking quarter cup of sugar. Yeah. And that sort of ties into, um, you know, this is, this is the whole bizarre nature of this

[00:17:57] because the ADA is teaching people that no, you don't need to limit carbohydrates, eat whatever you want. It's fine. Right. And then we'll cover it, cover it with insulin. Yeah, exactly. And so, but it gets worse than that because I've, I've, uh, colleagues of mine who have, um, you know, had, had patients before they understood about, you know, low carbohydrate and car, you know, therapeutic carbohydrate restriction for diabetics.

[00:18:20] Um, that they, they would look at their HbA1c and it starts going up and up and up and it was like, oh gosh, now you're at eight. Now you're at nine. Okay. We're going to increase your insulin. And because this, we need to bring this HbA1c down. So they dose up the insulin and then they're out of the room and they don't, they don't talk to them again. Then they go to the diabetic care nurse who says, oh, it looks like the doctor increased your insulin. So we're going to have to increase your daily, um, carbohydrates to cover the insulin

[00:18:49] because you need more insulin because you have high blood sugar, but that's going to drop your blood sugar. So you need more carbs to get that blood sugar back up again. It's like, are you actually retarded? Like, I mean, what the hell are you thinking? You know, it was just like eating a turkey insulin. It'd be one thing if like you needed insulin for some other reason. Right. And okay, well, let's just get your carbs up because you really need this insulin to grow up your hormones. Right. And so, you know, let's do that. And then we need to get your carbohydrates up. The whole point was to get your carbohydrates lower, to get your blood sugar lower.

[00:19:19] And now they're saying, well, because you have this insulin, now we've got to get those carbs up and their bloody HP1C just keeps going up. They get on more and more insulin and more and more insulin. They're eating more and more carbs. And like you say, they get more and more obese because insulin is the fat storage hormone. That's it. You know, if you don't have insulin. Blocks hypolysis. Yep. You're not going to burn fat. Exactly. Yeah. You can't. Yeah. I mean, some patients will be told to eat a sandwich before bed so they don't get

[00:19:46] hypoglycemic, like, does this make sense to you? Like, okay. Maybe just back. But with the big disconnect that started me down this path was there's no education between the patient and the physician. Like this is a all encompassing disease. Diabetes is affected by your thoughts, for example, movement, everything. Right. And how in the world are we going to go? All right. You just need this course, eight hour course. And usually that eight hour course, which is what I was started teaching a long time ago.

[00:20:14] I was like, this is all about complications of diabetes. This isn't really helpful to keep people off of the medication. This is all about, let me scare the crap out of you. So you'd be really compliant. Right. So everybody gets this eight hour class. So I would do this eight hour class and then they're, and then I'd be like, oh, well, we're done. And they'll be like, well, we'll, we'll be back next week. I'm like, well, I don't have any more material. So. Okay. I mean, I can't say no to a patient that wants education. Right.

[00:20:44] Here I'm like, okay, I got stuff for you. And that's what set me down this road. And I'm like, wait a minute. These people need help. They need some sort of guidance out as to how to safely get off of insulin. Cause I've had people like you meet them in the hospital, you're giving them this important information. They go home and do it. And then I'm like, you didn't call me the next morning and their blood sugar is really low. This really should be kind of done under the guidance of someone that's looking at you.

[00:21:14] Right. And knowing what your blood sugar is. And these continuous glucose monitors has been set to game changer because like you can see metabolism in real time and you can interject and you can make adjustments in real time. That's what I love about these things. And then there's a really important part of metabolism that is stress. And I feel like something like these aura rings, the smart rings, the watches, these things are

[00:21:39] great tools if we can learn this new language and figure out how we can help them with their daily life to get healthier just by doing everyday little impactful things like, hey, your blood sugar is high. Go for a walk. Oh, what a great idea. Oh, that would have been nice to have that on my little, a little warning. Oh, your blood sugar went up 20%. You probably should go for a walk now. Oh, okay. Like helpful information that it's all about patient education.

[00:22:05] We don't, we don't have enough information to give these, these patients aren't getting it. There's a huge disconnect. How do we fix this disconnect other than what we're doing and trying to convince people to change their diet and lifestyle? You know, when, when I, when I check patients, um, blood, well, they come in, you know, we talk about the problems that they have and, and a lot of it comes down to metabolic dysfunction and, and, um, you know, they may have been putting on weight. They don't feel well.

[00:22:33] They have, you know, low energy and mood and all these other sorts of things. And a lot of these are a product of, of a damaged metabolism and metabolic structure and hormones and things like that. So yeah, we do a deep dive into their, into their hormones. And quite often you'll see these patterns, you know, massively elevated, you know, insulin, elevated leptin, um, you know, the HB1C may be off, their blood sugar may be off. Um, their thyroid may be down, their testosterone may be in the tank and be a 38 year old woman

[00:22:59] might be going through, you know, early menopause and barely register, uh, the amount of insulin that they have, and you can explain these things to them. You can say, listen, this is what these things are doing in your body or the things that you're eating are affecting these things. You're eating carbohydrates, it's raising your insulin, that insulin is blocking leptin. Insulin is also blocking estrogen production in your ovaries. This is why you're going through early menopause. And you do, you go all the way down and you just start indicating them about this and like, this is how you're feeling. This is what your blood's saying. And we can tie all of this stuff back to what, the way you're eating.

[00:23:29] It can be quite convincing for people. And, um, and then you, you show them that and you say, listen, this is, these are the principle that you have an autoimmune disease and say, listen, I don't think it, you know, it's, it's, you know, just go ketogenic. Like you have diabetes, but you also have Hashimoto's, you have Crohn's disease. It's really important. Yeah. That you, you cut out plants in general because, you know, the full carnivore diet is really, really powerful for autoimmunity. I think that's because it, it directly addresses the underlying root cause.

[00:23:58] I've done a video on that called the real cause of autoimmunity or autoimmune diseases. And, um, and I think I'm onto something here. I don't, I don't think it's an autoimmune disease. I think your body is attacking actually plant toxins, lectins, glyphosate, different sorts of things that gets in your body, attack your body. What is human supposed to do when attacking them? Because when you remove those problem goes away, even though the antibodies are still elevated for years sometime, just like in celiac, you know, celiac was called a gluten mediated autoimmune disease.

[00:24:28] So meaning that it's only when gluten is stuck to your enterocytes and attacking them and damaging them that your body mounts a response to those. Right. Right. Which is how you're, so that's not an autoimmune disease because when you stop eating gluten, the gut completely heals and repairs in four to six weeks, even though the antibodies stay elevated for over three years. Right. So that those antibodies are not attacking your body. They're attacking the gluten that is stuck to your body and you're getting hit in the crossfire. I think that's what other autoimmune issues are as well. And I sort of go into that.

[00:24:58] But I go into that more in that video. But, you know, when I talk to them, it's just like, listen, this, this is, you change your diet. This is going to affect the autoimmunity. It's going to affect the diabetes. It's going to affect the leptin. It's going to affect, you know, your hormones are going to affect X, Y, and Z and all the way down the chain. Right. And, you know, B12 could be just staggeringly low is something you probably know about is that the reference ranges for lab tests are just an average. So just an average for the population that comes in. That's why every population. Yeah, exactly.

[00:25:28] And it's a sick population. So you're comparing yourself to the average person who is sick, overweight, malnourished and each and every different lab in your own town and all around the world, they all have different reference ranges. So that's obviously not an optimal reference range. It's just an average reference range. They don't even try to say it's an optimal reference range. There's certain things that are pre-agreed upon. Well, this is the cutoff for diabetes and pre-diabetes or this is where your cholesterol should be. The rest of them are averages basically for most of them.

[00:25:55] And so when you have 80% of the calories in America and most of the Western world being taken in from plant-based foods, most of those are processed plants but still plants and plants do not contain B12, you can expect the average to go down because the average person, most people are going to be B12 deficient. That's exactly what I see. See, it's reference range that only encompasses disease.

[00:26:21] Most of them don't even get into what has been shown through research studies to be an optimal reference range. They don't have, they don't, you know, so they're completely out of that range for most of these things. And so I showed them that and they're like, listen, you know, they have low energy, they're having, you know, brain fog and all sorts of things. And their doctor's like, hmm, you may, you may be low on B12. And they go and check it and they're like, oh, okay, no, it's, you know, 200, you know, picomoles per liter. Oh, that's fine.

[00:26:51] It's well within the range. Oh, that's cute because Oxford University published a study in 2008 that showed that people that had less than three, about 350 picomoles per liter sustained over five years that on MRI, their brain shrank by over 5% volume, right? Oh, demyelination causes damage to your axon, the demyelination of your axons, which is your white matter. And that matter actually shrinks down. So that is a critical deficiency that people are getting brain damage from.

[00:27:20] And we're just saying that's normal. This is why most vegans say like, oh, my B12, you know, and, and so I can look at that and their, their doctor says, oh yeah, no, you're fine. And I say like, that's a critical deficiency. We need to get that up. And so then you're switching to meat and there's more B12 and all these things. And so a lot of it is, is just dietary, um, in nature. Some of the people, you know, may need some, you know, medication support, but it's like

[00:27:46] 95% of it is done with diet and lifestyle and other 5% just sort of fill in the gaps with medications and, and people feel a lot better. And, you know, I have a very front heavy practice. There's a lot of education and time spent with a patient early on and I get them to, and I tell them like, look, this is my practice model is that I want to get you educated into a position that you don't need me and you're just healthy and you just go away, you know? You fixed your lifestyle. Enjoy it.

[00:28:15] Yeah, that's it. And so like now you're, now you're healthy. It was about people are supposed to be all life on earth is inherently healthy. It's just external, external influences that make them unhealthy. There's no such thing as a sickly population or sickly species. It's just not possible. Not inherently genetically, right? Because we're all descended from the winners. We're all descended from the people, from the, the people, the animals and the insects and the trees that survived.

[00:28:44] They were the, they were the fittest for purpose. They were the ones that made it. You're not going to have an entire population. They're just, just sick and falling apart and getting osteoporosis at 30 and just like just dying and decaying. Like it doesn't make any sense. Oh, but wait, but oh, we didn't have the ability to diagnose this back then. So that's why like, oh, I can't stand that argument. That just irks me. It's so dumb. I mean, they said it in the nineties. I remember it when it happened.

[00:29:10] You know, they started talking about, yeah, well like you remember like when you're back in the eighties, you know, and before that type two diabetes wasn't called type two diabetes. It was called adult onset diabetes. He's a juvenile diabetes. And then I remember as a kid in the nineties that all of a sudden there's, I was, I remember it on the news. He says, it's just like, wow, there's kids. He has this 10 year old kid who has adult onset diabetes, but he's a kid. How can he get, how can he get adult onset diabetes? Right. He's got fatty liver disease. Only alcoholics get fatty livers.

[00:29:39] These kids never had a drive in my life. He's 10. And so instead of thinking about it for one second and say, wait, what changed? And actually being scientists and, and, and, and responsible medical professionals, they just said, you know, it's probably happening all the time. We just didn't notice, you know, it was just, we're just better at diagnosing. Yeah. Well, if we test everybody, we'll probably find it. Right. Yeah. Well, that's it. All these kids. Well, because, you know, because type, you know, diabetic ketoacidosis is such a subtle

[00:30:06] diagnosis, you know, it could very well be that, you know, this, this kid who we saw had DKA and lost 20 pounds in a week and was extremely dehydrated and was drinking water out of the toilet because he was so thirsty that, um, you know, it came in and almost died and it was completely acidotic and his lactate through the roof. That was probably just type two. We just didn't realize it, you know? Yeah. Really? It's just like, no, come on. Like who, who are you trying to fool me or you? Like what is going on here?

[00:30:36] How, how is this drug still available? I mean, it increases in type two diabetics. You have high insulin. Why are you still giving it? They should never be. That's why I'm saying ADA, ADA has been pushing this. I think ADA is the one responsible for this. How many people are you killing? Especially like think of the cancer rates that associate with, with hyperinsulinemia. Like talk about anabolism, right? Like how are you, how are you triggering this?

[00:31:05] And then you add things like obesity, which is kind of a hypoxic state. Like what love, what cancer loves that? You, you, you and I have, have a mutual friend, Dr. Thomas Siegfried. That's, he's, he's amazing. Yes. I love, I love his work. And I've, I've, I've been able to share a lot of that and it just, it makes sense. But it also, it can, can contribute to like, why did we see such increases in cancer?

[00:31:32] And you, and you used to tear this out, right? You, you did the surgeries for GBM or yeah. Yeah. That is fast. GBM is amazing. Yeah. I had, I had, I had one patient. Yeah. That I met at a bar and it was during COVID. And he's like, Hey, what do you think I should do? I got six months to live. He has a, uh, astrocytoma. Does that sound right? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:59] And I go, well, you know, like when you're doing ketogenic, everything starts to look like a nail. Right. And you're like, I bet this will work. Yeah. He's, he's, he's, you know, everything looks like a carb. Like kill it. Yeah. Yes. Get rid of it. Yeah. So like he's, he's still around. He's still there. Nice. Yeah. That's fantastic. I bet you've had a lot of amazing cures. I've, I've been utilizing what you're talking about with the autoimmune disease, suggesting

[00:32:28] carnivore to a lot of people, the autoimmune disease, and it's been nothing but success. It is. Nothing. It's pretty crazy. It's amazing. Yeah. Rheumatoid, you name it. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. It is amazing. I have yet to see an autoimmune condition that doesn't respond extremely favorably to this. And, you know, and if that's correct, that our body's actually not being attacked by our antibodies, but are being attacked by lectins, plant toxins, glyphosates, industrial toxins,

[00:32:57] and all, whatever, then just like it is in, in celiac disease, then that makes sense. You know, you get rid of the, of the gluten and the celiac goes away, even though the antibodies are raised. So if you stop eating this garbage, you stop getting this, this filth in your body, it stops attacking your body and your body stops attacking it. And so that, that makes sense. White counts drop. WBCs drop. White counts drop, huh? Inflammatory markers improve. Yeah. And, and, well, absolutely. Across the board.

[00:33:27] Yeah, absolutely. You know, like, you know, CREC, you know, high sensitivity, CRP, ESR, um, you know, even people's ferritin. Ferritin can be an acute phase reactant. It can get elevated just due to inflammation. And then all of a sudden that comes down and normalizes. I mean, I've, I've had people that were, um, that were, you know, uh, phenotypically, uh, hemochromatosis, right? So they had, they had, they just, these ferritin levels just went up, up, up, up, up, and they were getting, um, iron overload.

[00:33:54] So they had to give blood every two, three months for years, just consistently. They had to give it. So some had, um, you know, genetically, um, um, hemochromatosis, others didn't, but they all, they all express this where they had to get, uh, you know, blood draws every, every couple of months. I, I, of my patients, and there's only a handful of those, every single one now has completely normal ferritin and don't need to give blood anymore.

[00:34:20] And I've spoken to Dr. Baker and other people who do this and they're, they're seeing the same thing. Um, is it going to do that for everybody? Not necessarily, but it certainly has with some of these people. So what is that with some people? Is this going to be massively elevated, you know, inflammation? So they're storing requests, sequestering iron in their ferritin, which is a storage form of iron. And your body does that in a, in a, in a inflamed state to try to get it away from bacteria and other pathogens that are, that would use that against you. Feed it. Um, yeah.

[00:34:49] And so, you know, inflammation comes down and antibodies come down because, you know, you can track certain antibodies pretty easily. Like, like Hashimoto's is very straightforward to, or Graves disease. You can, you can test these things very, very straightforward manner. And I have a patient right now who has Graves disease and, you know, tracking their antibodies and, you know, there's sort of steadily coming down, but it might take a long time. Like I said, with, with, um, celiac, it takes, you know, three years. Those, those antibodies can stay elevated. I mean, you look at your titers for different antibodies.

[00:35:19] You typically keep some amount of, of antibody production, even if you haven't been exposed to that pathogen for years. Right. And so, you know, that's because you're just keeping this baseline level there. So it's just in case it comes back, you can then grow and mount that response. Mount the response. Right. Yeah. And so that would, that would be the same with autoimmunity, I think, because your body's not treating this like an infection. Right.

[00:35:44] I mean, when was the last time you heard of, uh, relapsing and remitting, um, you know, staph and autoimmune, you know what I mean? Like you, you have an absence. I always, I always think about the host. I always think about the host. What's the vulnerability of the host for this to take hold? Are we weak? Right. Yes. Like what is it, you know, is it a cedar soil? Yeah. Yeah. And, and so the thing is too, is, I mean, think about it this way.

[00:36:13] And then that's part of the, the, you know, urinate immunity. Your body is able to, to fight these things off. And so they go from just sort of these opportunistic infections, like normally it just stays in balance, but then all of a sudden your, your immune system drops, something goes, all of a sudden this just goes crazy. You get weird little parasites and fungal infections when you're, when you're out of nowhere. Your immune system gets too low. And, but long before that you're getting these bacterial viral sort of things. Right.

[00:36:39] So, but you know, when, when did your body act like that with any infection? The, the principal argument behind autoimmunity is that your body screws up and all of a sudden thinks of your body or body part as an infection. Or it's what's trying to attack that infection. Okay. How does your body attack infections? Does it sort of attack it for a while? And then just sort of, I'm tired.

[00:37:05] And just take a break for a couple of months or a few days, or just take the weekend off, you know, and then come out and come attack it again or whatever. No, because you'd be dead. You know, the, your body is a full core press. You massively elevate your whites and then you just go attack, attack, attack, attack, attack until either you or it are dead because those are the stakes. You know, if you have an, if you have one of these infections, if you have a pneumonia, if you have a septic, you have an abscess in your neck, right?

[00:37:33] Your body's going to attack that until it can contain it and try to stop it. Right. Well, if it's thinking your thyroid is an abscess, it's not behaving as such. You should see those antibodies just go up and up and up and up and up and never come down. And that's exactly the opposite of what's happening. We already see this normally they can go down without immunosuppressants. But when you go on a carnivore diet, you know, when you're a plant free ketogenic diet, you cut out everything, especially everything except ruminant meat because of that rumination

[00:38:03] process forments and breaks down these toxins and can potentially even break down glyphosate, which is strongly associated with autoimmunity. And so if you're just really eating that and nothing else, you're not bringing these toxins in the first place. And what happens? Antibodies come down and we track this and it can take a year and a half, two years before those things can come down to a trace level. But it happens and we can see this in real time. Someone, you know, I had a patient who went to Italy and just came back and was just feeling like garbage.

[00:38:33] We checked his numbers again. His thyroid was in the tank. His antibodies are just shot up by hundreds of points. Right. We're like, well, there you go. And then, you know, because the antibodies will show up because it's mounting a new response. It will mount that response very quickly, but it'll take a long time for them to come down. So you really do have to be... But the symptoms typically are gone pretty quick. I mean... You can't... Well, as far as the antibodies are concerned.

[00:38:58] So the thing is, if you cut this garbage out of your system, if that theory is true, you know, my theory is true that your body's actually... The antibodies are actually attacking something else and you get those out. Yes, you can clear those quicker. I mean, there's some people that it takes a while to clear these things. They still have these lingering symptoms for a while, but eventually it just comes down, comes down, comes down, even though the antibodies are still elevated. But to have those antibodies come down, it means that they're not going to start coming down if there's something to attack.

[00:39:28] They're only going to go up. And so as soon as you start seeing them coming down, that's a pretty good indication that you can clear the garbage out of your system. Yeah. And then the antibodies are coming down because they don't need to be there. Your body's very efficient. It's not going to waste energy pumping out a bunch of antibodies towards nothing, right? And so, you know, that's what you should see. But, you know, it takes a while. Like any autoimmune or any immune process is going to take a while to get those antibodies down. But yeah, we absolutely see that.

[00:39:58] Do you see other symptoms associated with an excessive plant diet like oxalate toxicity, obviously lectins, nightshades? Do you see much of this in your practice? And if so, like, what do you say to convince them that, hey, these plants are just wreaking havoc on your GI tract? And that's why you have X, Y, and Z. Yeah.

[00:40:28] Well, I mean, you can show – I mean, one of the more insidious but I think more important issues with plants and their toxins is that they have a lot of things called anti-nutrients, things that block out the absorption and digestion and then absorption of nutrients or even get into your bloodstream and strip out nutrients. So, it's like oxalates, you know, it's in the form of oxalic acid and spinach. If anyone's ever used oxalic acid, you use it to get rust off the side of your house.

[00:40:58] As you put some oxalic acid, you put that into – you dilute it down in water. I'm going to rub spinach all over my house. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, you know – I don't look at plants the same because of you. Yeah. I'm like, that's the enemy. I swear I would never put that in my mouth again. You cannot get me to eat spinach. You couldn't get me to eat sugar.

[00:41:26] After I saw that 2012 Robert Lustig UCSF talk about sugar, I'm like, whoa, we didn't know the mechanism of fructose metabolism. Then I'm like, no. That's Roundup. That's as bad as glyphosate, right? That's a poison. That's a toxin. It should be under lock and key. Should certainly be age-restricted. Absolutely. Oh, for sure. And if alcohol and cigarettes are, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:41:55] Well, it's addictive. It's a known addictive substance, right? You didn't say food intentionally. It's not food. You said substance. It's like a controlled substance, huh? A Schedule I? Well, absolutely. Well, look at this. They did animal studies. They showed that they put a food pellet and a button that will give them a food pellet. One will give them a cocaine pellet. But they can only get one, right? And once they figure out which one it is, they keep going for the cocaine until they die.

[00:42:25] And then they added in a third switch, which was sugar. And they actually picked sugar until they died over the cocaine and the food, right? Yeah. Then Dr. Lustig has shown different studies, one of which was where they did MRIs on people that were like meth addicts.

[00:42:47] And they found that, you know, obviously, this goes to the dopamine receptors in the brain and the reward and addiction centers in your brain. It stimulates those excessively so you feel all bright and awake and manic. Right. But eventually, you know, it starts to kill these things because, you know, dopamine is excitatory. And when your neurons are excited and turned on, they're actually damaging themselves.

[00:43:12] The neurotransmitters, the breakdown products of neurotransmitters are actually toxic to your neurons, which is a crazy way to design anything. Right. That's what we got. And that's why you need to sleep. But it works. You need to turn these things off. It does work. It works great. And that, but that's why you need to cycle these things off. You need to turn these cells off. They need to build and repair. Because every minute you're awake, you get low grade brain damage. And now you're just forcing the on switch and just go, go, go, go, go. As your body starts reducing receptors. So that's tolerance.

[00:43:41] So you need more and more and more to get the same effect. And so people are like, well, I want to get where I'm going. So they take more and more and more. And so this causes serious damage and eventually causes permanent damage and kills those cells. And that's addiction because now you're not getting really any response unless you take the meth or whatever. And a lot of people, you know, doing my training and even in high school, you see these people, you know, meth addicts, coke addicts, heroin addicts. They wouldn't even say like, yeah, I just like getting high all the time. They say like, I have to do this just to feel normal. I don't feel human.

[00:44:11] I don't feel normal unless I have this. And, you know, people think, well, that's just because they're so used to being high. That's what they consider normal. But if you think about it, it's actually because they have basically no dopamine response left naturally. And so they have to be depressed. Yeah, exactly. And they're just miserable. And they just feel like they're just this shell of themselves, you know, with or without the withdrawals. They just feel horrible. And then they take it and they're like, oh, okay, I can function again.

[00:44:40] And so we can't live a life walking around with 10x dopamine all the time? No. Yeah, probably. Why not? There's a slippery slope on the – I don't know what sugar does to dopamine. I don't know if it's like a two and a half. I think it's a two. It's over two. So it's over double. Yeah. So fructose gives a dopamine response. And people say, well, you know, giving someone a hug gives dopamine. It's like not the same amount, like not to the same degree whatsoever.

[00:45:10] Maybe a little oxytocin there too. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. And so – but fructose – so Lustig talked about this study with fructose and meth addicts. So I got these meth addicts. They've actually just killed and destroyed these parts of the brain. They give them like, you know, some sort of amphetamine, you know, like a Vyvancer or whatever. And, you know, we give it to a normal person, you know, that doesn't have any of these issues. You know, those areas in the brain would just light up like a Christmas tree, right?

[00:45:35] And then they give that same dose to a meth addict and it barely twinkles. Dimms. Huh. Nothing. Yeah. But then they gave that same dose to a sugar addict who was metabolically sick. Same barely twinkle as the meth addict, right? So there was enough of a dopamine response from fructose to actually kill those cells in the reward centers of your brain, just like cocaine, heroin, and meth.

[00:46:00] And so this is as addictive as these drugs and it causes the same – or similar damage to, you know, the reward centers, kills these areas of the brain. And it also gets metabolized in the liver down the same pathway, same biochemical pathway as alcohol. So you get the same byproducts from processing sugar as you do from processing alcohol. And, you know, so you get, you know, fatty – you get all the same problems. You get fatty liver disease. You get cirrhosis. You get diabetes. You get heart disease.

[00:46:29] It's even implicated in, you know, Alzheimer's and cancer. So this is a drug. I mean this is fully addictive as these hard drugs and it's damaging to the body in a similar manner as alcohol. So this is a horrible, horrible substance to put in your body and yet we're giving it to kids. We're putting it in baby formula and everything. And we have all these holidays around just giving kids just blood loads of candy.

[00:46:54] And then we wonder why they have these problems and developmental issues are becoming much more prevalent. And, you know, we're just feeding them drugs. And, I mean that was the thing we were talking about. We were talking about, you know, just getting better at diagnosis. You can say that once. They said that in the 90s. They said that with autism. They said that with diabetes. They said that with cancer. They said that with all these sorts of things. All across. They all started going up at the same time. Okay.

[00:47:23] Is that because we just paid attention? Just every doctor before that was retarded? I don't know about that. You know what I mean? Like Leonardo da Vinci was pretty smart. And he had all these sorts of – he had volumes of books that he wrote. And he doesn't talk about any of these sorts of things in there. We have people that – Nobel Prize winners that were doing amazing things. John Yuck. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, you know, and Warburg. I mean this is a Nobel Prize winner.

[00:47:50] This guy was so brilliant that he was an openly homosexual Jewish man in Nazi Germany. And Hitler left him alone, just said, you just keep doing your thing. Right? Yeah. And so it's like that's how groundbreaking this guy's work was. And I'm sorry, but he would have seen this shit. He was studying cancer most of his career, and he made these massive, massive breakthroughs.

[00:48:20] And like he's going to be seeing a massive uptick in cancer rates. He's just going to. Those people are going to. And so they said that in the 90s. But you get to say it once because they said in the 90s, but then in the 2000s, it started going up again. Oh, what's this? Oh, it's just we're getting better at diagnosing. Right. Sure. What about in the 2010s when it went up again? Ah, we're just getting good at diagnosing. What about the 2020? Ah, it's just getting better at diagnosing. Right. No. It's going up.

[00:48:48] We've started paying attention in the 90s by your estimation. You're saying, yeah, we're looking now. We're diagnosing now. Okay, great. Well, now we're doing screening, all that sort of stuff. And it's getting worse and worse and worse and worse. And the interesting thing is if you look at, say, autism, it's not about how many people were diagnosed with autism in the 1970s. How many people who were alive in the 1970s and are alive now?

[00:49:18] Have been diagnosed with autism now as adults? Because, you know, if you have some sort of, you know, if you have a different. They wouldn't have gone away. Right. Yeah, that's it. You know, if you have a different sort of, you know, diagnosis criteria, maybe you say, okay, well, we call this this now. GBM is a perfect example. They change what they want to consider a GBM all the time. Is it, you know, grade four astrocytoma or is it a GBM or is this or this or that? Looking at the methylation status, looking at, you know, is it mutant or wild type and all these sorts of things. That changes.

[00:49:47] That changes what we consider a GBM right now. Okay. So right now we're considering certain spectrum disorders called autism. People in their seventies, people 70 or between 70 and 80 right now, the autism rate in that decade of life is one in 10,000. Right. Whereas now the new generation coming up, it's one in, I think 34 in America is one in 22 males. And yeah, I'm sorry.

[00:50:16] Like, you know, it's just, that is not a diagnostic issue. Yeah. You're growing up. One in 22 kids did not have a serious learning difficulty like that. I didn't know anybody. You didn't know any. I didn't know anybody. I mean, the first time I heard about autism was when I saw Rain Man, you know, like that was it. That's what they do. And looking back. Yeah.

[00:50:42] And looking back, like, um, there was one kid at our school in junior high who were looking back, I would say he's probably high functioning, um, you know, autistic savant, you know, he had great skills and things like that, but he, he could still socialize and things like that. He was on the wrestling team and all that sort of stuff, but he was just, there was just something a little quirky about him. Looking back, I'd say that's it. That was one kid in the whole school. Yeah. I don't know how many kids you'd seen, you know, hundreds of thousands. I didn't, I didn't see it. I just didn't.

[00:51:11] And it wasn't like I was missing it, but now it's like every family has it. That's it. There's somebody there where they know somebody. This isn't right. But the vaccine schedule, what, what are you, man, we're going to get ourselves probably taken off the air for this, but I think it's still worth this discussion. What do you think about RFK? Obviously he has some great plans here.

[00:51:37] Are we going to see value-based medicine come back? Are we going to help the children and then we will get help just kind of, well, or do you just take the snack aisle and just no children allowed and have to have a card to get in and buy your garbage? I don't know. What do you, what do you envision? Because your practice, according to this value-based medicine, you know, and I've been told this too, you're hurting butts in beds.

[00:52:06] The hospital isn't going to get paid as much. Right. And under value-based medicine, actually your lifestyle practice should be worth a lot because you're reversing disease. We should be getting paid for outcomes. That's a positive outcome that's of some value now. What's your, what's your hope and what do you think? Well, I, yeah, I mean, the thing is, I think one of the things that RFK is doing is he's just, he's opening the dialogue back up.

[00:52:36] He's, he's allowing it to be discussed openly because previously, you know, I, I, you know, I don't, I haven't looked into all that sort of stuff with, you know, um, autism and vaccines and things like that. I mean, I think that, you know, when I started looking at the vaccine schedule and there's just sort of adding things to it and there's like a chicken pox vaccine, like why do you need to vaccinate against that? Like, that's not, no, TB, TB. Yeah. Yeah. Gates, Bill Gates wants a TB vaccine.

[00:53:05] He's spent $200 million. Jesus. Why? Yeah. Like why? When was the last time in America we got TB? But we've got meds that work. Just, if you want to do something helpful, clean up, clean up the, clean up the, the water and the, the sanitation. Well, yeah, a hundred percent. You know what I mean? The J. Salisbury would put people on a pure beef and water diet in the 1800s. And that was getting people's immune system up and ready to go so that they could fight off TB.

[00:53:33] You specifically use that for TB as well as autoimmune diseases and other sorts of things. But, you know, the, the TB vaccine doesn't even prevent TB. It just prevents, you know, miliary TB where you're sort of metastasizes around your body and you just get just completely destroyed by it. So that's what it's supposed to, you know, prevent or help protect from, but it's not even a guarantee. That's not even a guarantee, but it doesn't, um, it doesn't prevent TB.

[00:53:59] And if there's no TB in America, endemic in population, like why are we worried about this? Like, what are we doing? Um, yeah. You know, and, uh, Cervical cancer, cervical cancer and HPV. I mean, everybody should have boys and girls. Everyone should have it. Cervical cancer doesn't, doesn't get that many people. It's one in 20,000 actually die from it. It's a slow growing cancer. You could get this on pap smear way ahead of time, but we're still doing this. Yeah.

[00:54:27] I mean, you know, and, and yeah, I, I, yeah, I don't, I don't understand this. I mean, well, I do understand it. I mean, cause when you get people get something on a vaccine schedule, it's, it's, you have a captive market, right? They can't go anywhere, right? They have to get your vaccine. So, you know, that's, that's a very good business model to get, you get a vaccine, get a vaccine, get a vaccine, get a vaccine, pay a bunch of money, pay off a bunch of politicians to

[00:54:52] lobby and you'll pay off a bunch of doctors to say how, how necessary and good this is. Um, to, you know, stop people from getting chicken pox was all goodness. It's just an epidemic of chicken pox and people being itchy for five days, you know? And, um, and, and they're saying that, you know, and as you get that onto the schedule and that's just, it's just money in the bank, you know, and no liability. They're not going to get, I mean, that should never have existed.

[00:55:19] I mean, that's the first thing that needs to go is, you know, taking the immunity from liability. I mean, that is insane. Like, how could you not, if you have that, you are just asking for a problem. Say it's like, Hey, you can just put out a vaccine. Doesn't matter what it does. Doesn't matter what the arm is. Right. You're immune from all liability. Absolutely not. Because now you can just go out and just, you know, you put some dishwater into a syringe and just be like, okay, what happens? Whatever.

[00:55:48] And when you sue, you sue a trust, which comes from the government, you're suing the government for someone else's really, you know, lack of safety. Yeah. Like, why would you want to sue yourself? But what's frustrating is like, this is how many more children need to be affected? How much longer is this going to go on? If we're really going to have transparency in medicine, it needs to be independently reviewed.

[00:56:14] We need to actually have the safety data in front of us and VAERS, VAERS is broken. I'm sure they said, Oh, well, we'll just invent this VAERS program and we'll do all the safety data through this post-marketing data. Like really? I don't know how many times you fill out a VAERS, but it's, it takes a long time. It's pain. Yes. Yeah. And you're liable for, and you don't get paid for it. Like, I'm going to do this after work for a couple hours because it's, I got to get all these, all this lab data to put in here. It's like, it's, it's, it's not working. It's not with the best interest of the children.

[00:56:44] No. Harvard did a study. I think it was 2018 that, that looked at the VAERS system and see like how many people are actually reporting things. They're actually required to be like, if there's a, there's a serious adverse effect, you know, you're, you know, you're obligated to do so. Others people, it was less than 10%. Less than 10% of people actually did this. So this is, this is being largely ignored. And then in certain periods, you know, in the last few years, the, the, the reports where

[00:57:12] there was actually probably less than 1% because there was, there was overt coercion to not report it. And I saw that in my hospital as well. We'd have patients that, you know, would, would have done that or something like that. And they come in with a massive brain hemorrhage and, you know, that night or that next day. And it's a massive brain hemorrhage. I remember there's this one case where, um, and you know, they could thrombocytopenic, which is a known consequence of this.

[00:57:40] And so their platelets are really down. They can't control any sort of bleeding. And then all of a sudden they get this little bleed, massive brain hemorrhage. And we can't operate because platelets are under a hundred. We can't maintain that. We're just giving bag after bag, after bag, after bag platelets, not working, you know, go up to 40 and then just drop right back down at zero. And, um, so we couldn't operate and, you know, this person as a lady, she actually ended up dying. We couldn't save her. We couldn't even attempt to save her.

[00:58:09] And, um, that was sort of the, the, the evening of, or the next day was very closely in proximity with this. And, um, and I remember talking to some of the guys in the ICU and they were like, look, this is a big deal. This is going to be in the news. People are going to be all upset and, you know, we're going to have to report this, this and the other, you know, the head of the department just said, absolutely not. You know, it's 100% safe and effective. This definitely wasn't from this. And so no one's allowed to report it. It was like, excuse me. Like, never, never been proven.

[00:58:39] Never been proven. How would you know? Cause no longterm. We have to do the autopsy. Nothing's a hundred percent. Nothing. I try to explain that to people like, okay, do you realize in order to figure out if the, if the shots are causing autism, we would have to sacrifice the child. Like we have to give it sacrifice. Oh, it didn't work. Like, come on. There really is. There really is no great way to, to measure this other than like the whole point of epidemiological

[00:59:08] studies and correlation is to dig further. If there is an association, let's dig, let's look at this a little bit more carefully. So I'm interested to see what you think far as RFK's take on fixing the children and whether or not this is going to have, if it's going to trickle out into all of us and all of our society and all of our food, or should we just, this is my idea. It's been like this for a long time. Let's get rid of all the subsidized crops.

[00:59:40] I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with that. No, no, no. I think we just get rid of all subsidies and, and, and nonsensical foreign aid. I mean, we're just sending trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars to people who hate us to prop up, you know, tin pot dictatorships or, you know, some sort of ridiculous regime that can't support itself and off the backs of their people. Terrible idea. But, you know, yeah, get rid of them. I mean, you know, the government shouldn't, is, is not designed to be in the business of picking winners and losers. They're supposed to stay the hell out of it.

[01:00:10] They're supposed to be the arbiters. So, you know, if you're playing against, if you're playing a game against the ref, you will always lose. Like it's no competition. Especially if you piss them off. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you have to, you have to have the government outside of that. They can't be the ones, you know, picking that for 150 years. That, that, that worked great. We had the largest growth in the standard and quality of, of the quality of living of the lowest quintile in the population.

[01:00:38] The poorest of the poor improved the most. They improved that quicker than at any other point in history in any other part of the world in the 1800s in America. And that's not to say that that was perfect, but, you know, we weren't doing things according to, to the constitution. Everything should have been applied to everybody. That was, that was, that was a big mistake right from the get go. But, you know. And the USDA recommending foods, that was a huge problem too. That's it, you know.

[01:01:06] And then, you know, like in the 1930s, we had the, you know, the new deal and we just said, okay, well now we have to intervene. Keynesian economics was, was in vogue at the time. They were like, well, this is just what you have to, you have to do deficit spending and this will help. You know, when was the last time you got yourself out of debt by maxing out your credit card bills after you lose your job? Because you made a whole bunch of great investments, right? Sure. You know, it's just, it's so silly. And, you know, you know, they would, they would have make work projects.

[01:01:32] They would, they would send a whole bunch of people out, pay them to dig a massive ditch and then pay them to fill it back up again. It's just like, how is that benefiting anybody? You know, well, we have to get them work. And I was like, get, well, at least get them to do something functional and necessary, you know, but it's just ridiculous. So, or, you know, stay the hell out, you know, stay the hell out of the way because obviously, you know, what you're doing is not helping people. And, you know, since then it's sort of been broken.

[01:02:00] You know, they, they made this rule that said, you know, there was in the constitution is very clear. You're not allowed to, federal government is not allowed to spend any money on, on, you know, specific special interests. It has to be for the general welfare of the, of the society, of the population. So, you know, like board security, you know, national defense, those sorts of things, infrastructure, that's it. Right.

[01:02:24] And, and so, you know, then they said, well, or had the Supreme court break the constitution by saying, well, you know, if I help Kyle, you know, he's going to spend it over here and that's going to pay other people and that's going to do other things. And that's just going to spread out and that will help everybody, you know? Right. And, and, and so they broke, they broke the constitution with that. And instantly you had money in politics because now there was, now there was money that they

[01:02:53] could splash around, you know? So if you pay a politician, give them a bunch of money, then what happens? They can, they can just now direct federal funding to your special interest, to your company, to your whatever. And now they're picking winners and losers. Now you're getting subsidies. Now you're getting this. Now you're getting sweetheart deals. Now you're getting, you know, land deals and this isn't that. And so, you know, that's when things really sort of took a turn for the worse. And we, we all, everyone talks about how money in politics is really bad idea.

[01:03:22] That's, that's sort of when it started and really went crazy after that. You know, the thing with, with RFK is, you know, you don't have to agree with everything that he says. He's not trying to put down dictates. He's just saying, Hey, let's just look at it. Let's look at the data. Let's look at the data because we have not been doing that. And we have not been allowed to do that because if you, if you go against the narrative, which is largely pushed by the drug companies for these sorts of things, because they just make billions, really trillions off of these things.

[01:03:52] And yeah, yeah. All these things, you know, just the whole gamut. And so they're making trillions of dollars off of this and they'll, they'll be damned if they're going to like give that up. And because they've made trillions, they have a big war chest as a, as a, you know, whole, um, you know, group. They have a massive fortune. Yes, they have. And so, you know, and they make a lot of money too. So they can, they can just really lobby and push for this sort of stuff. And so people that ever questioned this, that, you know, it's just the, the, the attack, you know, force came out.

[01:04:22] You're crazy. You're a loony. They try to get them discredited. Conspiracy. People taking away. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, um, this is just opening that up and just saying, Hey, let's just look at it. Let's just see where the data goes. No one should be opposed to that. You know, no one should be opposed. It's not saying, Hey, these are really bad. And he's horrible. I mean, I'm sure some of them are great. However, are all 75 necessary?

[01:04:48] Are all of them just doing absolutely nothing and not causing any harm whatsoever? Right. I mean, I don't know what, what, what harm that's doing, but I, I, you know, I want to know if it is, you know, that's, that's just being responsible. You know, you need to look into it. Looking at the data and really presenting it in such a way that people would understand.