Eric Bischoff

[00:00:05] What up, what up, what up? Welcome to the latest episode of Unplanned and Unashamed with Ray Money and Isaiah Pennell.

[00:00:18] And we're recording another episode of Unplanned and Unashamed.

[00:00:22] And we have a guest this time, Mr. Eric Bischoff. Thanks for coming on the show.

[00:00:27] Thank you for joining us.

[00:00:29] Hey, glad to be here with you guys. It took a little bit.

[00:00:33] My technology is, my laptop that I use is, I found out it's nine years old.

[00:00:39] And in computer terms, that's like a collector's item.

[00:00:45] Yeah man, it looks like we had a cabin somewhere out.

[00:00:50] I'm in my home in Cody, Wyoming.

[00:00:53] But yeah, it looks like it's a...

[00:00:55] Apparently they've done well out there. It's like a vacation cabin.

[00:01:02] Yeah, we're not suffering.

[00:01:04] Well, he still has that WCW money, that's what he needs to.

[00:01:07] No, that's not true.

[00:01:12] He said, no, I'm not.

[00:01:16] Go ahead.

[00:01:18] Ted Turner, was he the one that gave you that vice president job?

[00:01:26] No, actually I ended up as president of WCW.

[00:01:29] But that was, my boss was a gentleman by the name of Harvey Schiller.

[00:01:33] He was my immediate boss.

[00:01:35] And then Harvey reported to Ted.

[00:01:37] So, no, Ted didn't give me that title.

[00:01:41] But of course he owned the company.

[00:01:42] So it wouldn't have happened without him, I guess.

[00:01:45] Cool.

[00:01:46] Well, look, Eric, I know you don't know who I am.

[00:01:49] My name is comedian Ray Money.

[00:01:51] Ray Money is my real name.

[00:01:52] People kind of...

[00:01:54] No, get out of town.

[00:01:55] Ray Money is your...

[00:01:56] Your mom named you Ray Money?

[00:01:58] I'm a junior.

[00:01:59] So it's a long line, long group of us.

[00:02:03] I'm a stand-up comedian.

[00:02:05] Well, I'm a banker turned stand-up comedian.

[00:02:09] And...

[00:02:11] Well, how could you go wrong with a name like Ray Money?

[00:02:14] That's awesome.

[00:02:16] But yeah, thanks for coming on the show.

[00:02:18] But before you got into wrestling, you was doing the Ninja Star Wars stuff, right?

[00:02:24] Well, I wasn't doing it.

[00:02:26] I mean, the Ninja Star Wars was a project.

[00:02:29] I was a sales manager for a food processor.

[00:02:31] That was my real job, my day job, so to speak.

[00:02:35] But, you know, I've always had stuff going on the side.

[00:02:37] Always kind of had side hustles, so to speak, before they called them side hustles.

[00:02:43] And the Ninja Star Wars project was an idea that a friend of mine had.

[00:02:47] A friend of mine and I had one night.

[00:02:48] We were drinking heavily, hanging out in a bar, looking for women or something.

[00:02:53] And we came up with this idea and put it on paper.

[00:02:57] And when we sobered up, we decided, let's go ahead and do it.

[00:03:00] And that game, developing that game and trying to get it into the marketplace

[00:03:04] was what really led me into the wrestling business.

[00:03:08] And you started out with AWA, right?

[00:03:11] Correct.

[00:03:12] And Vern Gagne, already.

[00:03:13] So, Ray, for, I know you don't know,

[00:03:16] AWA was a territory based out of Minnesota, right?

[00:03:21] Was it Minnesota?

[00:03:22] Yep.

[00:03:23] So that is how Ray, Eric, got into wrestling.

[00:03:27] You started out with AWA?

[00:03:30] Yeah, that was my first job.

[00:03:32] But AWA, this was before Vince McMahon really took over all the territories.

[00:03:36] He'd already done it, but there were still a few territories like the AWA in Minnesota.

[00:03:42] Jerry Jarrett down in Memphis.

[00:03:47] Don Owens in the middle of the country.

[00:03:49] I think Kansas he was in.

[00:03:50] So there were still some local promoters that were still trying to keep the business alive.

[00:03:56] But Vern was the first real wrestling company that I got to work for.

[00:04:01] Yeah.

[00:04:02] Okay.

[00:04:03] I guess what got you in?

[00:04:05] Was this an early passion, wanting to be in wrestling?

[00:04:09] Or was it just, hey, you know what?

[00:04:11] I like to hit people.

[00:04:13] Let's see if...

[00:04:15] No.

[00:04:16] No.

[00:04:18] Ray, it was honestly, I'd never thought about getting into the wrestling business.

[00:04:23] It was never on my bingo card, as they say.

[00:04:27] Okay.

[00:04:28] I was just in the right place at the right time, and I got the job offer.

[00:04:32] What were you doing before that?

[00:04:34] I was a sales manager for a food processor.

[00:04:38] Oh, you missed all that, Ray.

[00:04:39] You was frozen.

[00:04:40] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:04:42] My computer was shut down, and then I missed out.

[00:04:45] You was a sales manager.

[00:04:46] Like, you know what?

[00:04:47] I was going to say, Ray, you must not listen real well.

[00:04:52] Did your teachers in school give you check marks for not paying attention?

[00:04:55] No, no, no, no.

[00:04:57] This is why you were gone and your computer froze up.

[00:05:00] We got into that a little bit.

[00:05:01] But I was a sales manager for a food processor.

[00:05:04] I had about eight or ten salespeople working for me at the time.

[00:05:07] I would hire them and train them and manage them.

[00:05:10] And the Ninja Star Wars thing was just a side hustle.

[00:05:13] I took it to Vern Gagne and said, hey, I've got an idea.

[00:05:15] What do you think?

[00:05:16] And the next thing I knew, he offered me a job.

[00:05:18] So it kind of came from out of nowhere.

[00:05:20] I never really planned on getting into the business.

[00:05:23] Wow.

[00:05:24] Hey, that's amazing.

[00:05:25] All them sales calls do make you a little bit like, you know what?

[00:05:29] Let's do something different.

[00:05:31] You know, sales is sales.

[00:05:33] No matter what you're selling, you're interacting with people.

[00:05:36] You're representing a product.

[00:05:39] And oftentimes in a job like that, you get recruited by other companies.

[00:05:44] And that's really what happened.

[00:05:46] I understand.

[00:05:47] Yeah.

[00:05:50] Yeah.

[00:05:50] So, and then you tried out as an announcer for WWF at some point, right?

[00:05:55] I think.

[00:05:57] Yeah.

[00:05:57] Back in, I think it was 1991, Vern Gagne, the guy I was working for, was really struggling

[00:06:04] financially.

[00:06:05] He was having a hard time keeping his business afloat.

[00:06:08] So I went for, I don't remember now, months, I guess, without a paycheck.

[00:06:15] Long enough that it was starting to hurt.

[00:06:17] You know, they were repossessing cars out of my driveway and I couldn't afford to heat

[00:06:22] my house.

[00:06:22] It was in the wintertime in Minnesota.

[00:06:24] So when it gets down to 10 degrees, 20 below zero, you know, it kind of matters if you

[00:06:28] can't afford your heat.

[00:06:29] So it just got to the point where I had to make a move.

[00:06:32] And I knew that Vince McMahon was, they had an ad in the paper, Minneapolis Star Tribune

[00:06:37] where I lived, that they were looking for announcers.

[00:06:39] So I went down and auditioned and I sucked so bad.

[00:06:43] I didn't get the job.

[00:06:45] Not that I deserved it, but yeah, I went down there in 1991.

[00:06:50] Gotcha.

[00:06:51] Now, did you have any dealings with Vince McMahon when you tried out for, as an announcer?

[00:06:57] Very little.

[00:06:58] You know, I went into the studio and of course they have intercoms in the studio and Vince

[00:07:03] was back in what they call a control room.

[00:07:06] I was out in the studio itself and they were just kind of giving me directions, you know,

[00:07:11] over the intercom.

[00:07:12] And I, you know, obviously I recognized Vince's voice as he was giving me directions and asking

[00:07:17] me to do certain things in this audition.

[00:07:20] And then at the end of it, I came out, I went out to the parking lot where the car was going

[00:07:25] to pick me up and take me back to the airport.

[00:07:27] And Vince came out and introduced himself and said hello, but it was very, very brief.

[00:07:31] Gotcha.

[00:07:32] Did you know that your audition was going to make it on the Netflix show?

[00:07:36] Or was that a surprise?

[00:07:38] Well, Netflix, you know, nobody knew what a Netflix was back then.

[00:07:42] Nobody knew what streaming was back then.

[00:07:44] So now there's a lot of things that have happened that I never would have imagined happening

[00:07:48] at the time.

[00:07:49] Gotcha.

[00:07:50] Were you, how do you feel about the Netflix documentary?

[00:07:55] You know, I, I think given all of the circumstances, keep in mind that this documentary was Vince McMahon's

[00:08:04] idea originally.

[00:08:06] He's the one that he sat down for all those interviews and, and shared things with people

[00:08:13] that he wanted them to know.

[00:08:14] This was, you know, Vince is a control freak and he's, he always has been.

[00:08:19] And he really wanted to control the public's image of him.

[00:08:24] Now, Vince isn't afraid to be controversial.

[00:08:28] Vince isn't afraid to sue and to say and do things that make him way outside of the mainstream.

[00:08:35] He's very unusual in that respect.

[00:08:37] Most people try to fit in.

[00:08:38] Vince McMahon kind of prides himself on being outside of the norm, so to speak.

[00:08:43] Boy, did he accomplish that.

[00:08:45] Holy crap.

[00:08:47] But with regard to the documentary, the producers of the documentary, you know, they're just

[00:08:53] going along.

[00:08:54] They had an idea in mind as to how they wanted to end it.

[00:08:58] And then shit hit the fan with the lawsuit, Janelle Grant lawsuit, accusing him of all

[00:09:05] these horrible things that made his way to the, you know, internet, obviously.

[00:09:10] So when that happened, that shut down the documentary.

[00:09:14] Now the film producers are sitting there with all this footage and they're three quarters

[00:09:19] of the way done with this documentary.

[00:09:20] And all of a sudden Vince is gone.

[00:09:22] He's, he's no longer participating.

[00:09:25] So they had to come up with a finish, you know, it's like a wrestling match.

[00:09:29] You thought you were going to go for a, you know, a straight three count and then something

[00:09:33] happens in a match.

[00:09:34] And all of a sudden you've got a schmaz and you've got to kind of improvise the finish.

[00:09:38] And that's really what they had to do.

[00:09:40] They had to improvise the finish or the ending, if you will, of that documentary.

[00:09:44] So all that being said, I think given the circumstances, I think the producers did a very, very good job.

[00:09:53] Excellent job.

[00:09:54] I think that for wrestling fans who really follow the business, they didn't learn anything new.

[00:10:03] Really?

[00:10:04] Most of the stuff has been out there in one way, shape or form.

[00:10:07] But I think for the average fan who maybe watches a couple of times a year, not even average, but the casual fan who watches a couple of times a year,

[00:10:16] or maybe they used to watch when they were in their teens or whatever, quit watching.

[00:10:20] And I think for those people, they got a lot of new information and a lot of new insight into Vince McMahon.

[00:10:27] So I think it depends who you ask.

[00:10:29] Hardcore wrestling fans went, eh, been there, done that, heard all that shit.

[00:10:34] But 95% of the rest of the world went, holy crap, this guy's a psycho.

[00:10:40] So it depends who you are, I guess.

[00:10:43] Did you think that it was a hit piece?

[00:10:45] Someone asked.

[00:10:47] Go ahead, Ray.

[00:10:48] Okay.

[00:10:49] Look, I want to ask, like, are you still into wrestling?

[00:10:53] Is that still...

[00:10:56] You know, in a way, Ray, I still consult on some projects.

[00:11:03] Like, there's a group in Los Angeles that have an idea for a wrestling show all based around independent wrestling, by the way.

[00:11:10] And I consult with them on that.

[00:11:16] Obviously, I do my podcast, which is still kind of wrestling related.

[00:11:19] I do personal appearances, you know, generally throughout the year.

[00:11:23] So that's kind of still in the business.

[00:11:26] But I'm going to be making an appearance in New York on December 5th for MLW.

[00:11:32] That'll be on YouTube.

[00:11:35] So I'll still do things occasionally, but I have no interest or desire to do anything full time.

[00:11:42] Kind of been there, done that.

[00:11:44] Traveling is so hard.

[00:11:45] You know, when I live, you know, part of it's my fault because of where I live.

[00:11:48] It's hard for me to get anywhere.

[00:11:51] It takes me a full day just to get to Los Angeles.

[00:11:54] Yeah, like you said, Wyoming?

[00:11:56] What?

[00:11:56] Yeah, I live right outside of Yellowstone National Park.

[00:11:59] It's about 50 miles up the road.

[00:12:01] So you can just, on a good day, you can see parts of it from here.

[00:12:05] I took a cross-country trip and drove through Wyoming.

[00:12:08] And yeah, you could just see a little light way in the back.

[00:12:13] It almost ran out of gas.

[00:12:14] I was like, yeah, this is not a place where people should be living.

[00:12:17] There's nothing out here.

[00:12:19] I guess that was your light.

[00:12:22] It was my house.

[00:12:23] It should have been my house before.

[00:12:26] No, it's funny because if you go through the southern part of the state, you know, like I-90, Wyoming is just fucking boring.

[00:12:36] I mean, it's flat.

[00:12:38] It's not much.

[00:12:39] But I live up in the extreme northwest corner where Yellowstone National Park is.

[00:12:43] And it's absolutely beautiful here.

[00:12:46] I really love it.

[00:12:47] But it is hard, you know, for me to get to, like I said, if I, you know, Los Angeles isn't that far away.

[00:12:56] I can drive it about 10 hours.

[00:12:59] But for me to fly there, you know, I have to fly all day long with the connections and the way things are.

[00:13:04] So it's, I hate flying.

[00:13:05] I hate traveling, to be honest.

[00:13:07] I was going to ask, why did you pick, why is Wyoming the place for you?

[00:13:10] Why is that?

[00:13:12] That's a good question, Ray.

[00:13:13] I grew up in Detroit.

[00:13:16] That's a big difference.

[00:13:19] You want to get away from everybody.

[00:13:22] No, but, you know, as a kid growing up in Detroit, now I'm 69 years old.

[00:13:27] So in the late 50s and early 60s when I was just, you know, really starting to pay attention to stuff, you know, westerns, you know, television was still kind of a new thing.

[00:13:37] I mean, it wasn't new.

[00:13:39] But like in my neighborhood, not everybody had a television.

[00:13:42] It was kind of the low end part of town, so to speak.

[00:13:46] And very few, most people had like black and white TVs.

[00:13:51] But I remember the first person on our block that got a color television.

[00:13:55] It was like, oh my God, can you believe it?

[00:13:58] A color television.

[00:14:01] And as a kid growing up, I used to watch like Gunsmoke and Lawhide and The Virginian and all these westerns because they were really, really popular back in the 50s and the 60s.

[00:14:14] And as a kid, you know, I grew up in Detroit.

[00:14:16] And it's, you know, my parents, the house, you know, the property that our house was on was maybe a little bigger than my kitchen right now.

[00:14:23] You know, little tiny lots, a little tiny house and everything was flat.

[00:14:28] Like there were no mountains.

[00:14:29] There were no rivers.

[00:14:31] Well, there was a Detroit River, but that was shitty.

[00:14:34] But I always fantasized about living somewhere where you could see the mountains and you could see wild animals and elk and moose and deer and all that.

[00:14:43] So I came out here once in 1977.

[00:14:45] And I said, damn it, I was only 22.

[00:14:49] I didn't have any money.

[00:14:50] I didn't have any idea how I was going to do it.

[00:14:52] But I made up my mind back in 77 that this is where I wanted to live.

[00:14:57] That's cool.

[00:14:59] And how long have you been in Cody?

[00:15:02] We built, my wife and I built this house.

[00:15:04] We started in 97.

[00:15:05] We finished in 98.

[00:15:07] So we've had the home here for whatever that is, 25 years, 24 years.

[00:15:11] But we always used it as a second home because we had a home in Atlanta when I was working for Ted Turner.

[00:15:17] And after that, we had a home in Scottsdale, Arizona.

[00:15:19] So we were kind of like, I call them snowbirds.

[00:15:22] We'd come up here for the summer.

[00:15:23] And as soon as the weather started taking a bad turn, we'd go back down to Arizona.

[00:15:29] But once the kids kind of moved out and went on our own, it's like we didn't, we really wanted to downsize.

[00:15:36] And we just said, okay, we can only have one house.

[00:15:40] Which one do we want?

[00:15:40] Obviously, we wanted to be here in Wyoming.

[00:15:45] And you said you was a huge fan of Westerns.

[00:15:48] Do you have a favorite John Wayne movie?

[00:15:52] Oh, gosh.

[00:15:53] There's so many of them.

[00:15:54] And honestly, they were kind of all the same, right?

[00:15:57] Right.

[00:15:59] You know, I liked Rio Lobo was one that stood out to me.

[00:16:02] The Sons of Katie Elder I thought was kind of fun because it had a little bit of comedy in it.

[00:16:09] You know, it wasn't just a straight good guy, bad guy, shoot him up movie.

[00:16:13] There was a little bit of humor in it, and it was a little different for John Wayne's character.

[00:16:18] So that one stands out for that reason.

[00:16:20] I always liked the shootest because I always thought that was the perfect end to his career.

[00:16:28] That, brother, that was such a good, I don't know how that would escape me.

[00:16:32] Because of all his movies, that one really struck home.

[00:16:37] And if you knew what was going on with John Wayne at the time, he had cancer while he was filming that movie.

[00:16:43] So he was dying while he was making that movie, knowing it was going to be his last movie in all likelihood.

[00:16:51] But he played a character that was dying, you know?

[00:16:55] And it was such a poignant, it was such a great film, man.

[00:17:01] You know, Ron Howard, you know, you think of him with Andy Mayberry or Happy Days or some silly shit.

[00:17:07] He did a really, really good job in that movie.

[00:17:10] So I'm with you, Isaiah.

[00:17:12] I like that one as well.

[00:17:14] And the character that he played also was dying of cancer as well.

[00:17:19] So that, I mean, there was a lot of blending between reality and fiction.

[00:17:25] Can you imagine what that would have been like for John Wayne?

[00:17:28] So he sees the script and he goes, oh, wow, this is an old guy, a gunfighter in his case in the movie.

[00:17:36] John Wayne in real life is an old guy who's an actor.

[00:17:39] Yeah.

[00:17:40] And the character is dying of cancer.

[00:17:42] And, oh, by the way, so am I.

[00:17:45] So I don't know what that must have been like going through that, man.

[00:17:50] That would have been a challenge emotionally.

[00:17:53] It had to have been, like, surreal for him just to be reading that script.

[00:17:58] And everybody on the set, you know?

[00:18:01] I mean, his co-stars, the production crew, the director, the writer,

[00:18:06] everybody on that location knew that here's a guy who's dying of cancer playing a guy who's dying of cancer.

[00:18:14] It was pretty unusual.

[00:18:16] Yeah.

[00:18:16] Whoever wrote that was an asshole.

[00:18:18] Like, that was a real, like, move.

[00:18:20] Asshole move.

[00:18:22] To be like.

[00:18:23] Because they had to know this beforehand.

[00:18:25] Or did he cast the whole screen?

[00:18:29] No, it was.

[00:18:31] He had to.

[00:18:32] He was diagnosed previous to the movie, obviously.

[00:18:34] But, you know, nobody forced him to do the movie.

[00:18:36] I think John Wayne wanted to do that movie because of the situation.

[00:18:41] He knew this was going to be his last movie.

[00:18:42] And he wanted to bring something really dramatic to the screen.

[00:18:45] And I thought it was a good choice for him.

[00:18:50] You know, it took a lot of courage, but it was a good choice.

[00:18:52] I got you.

[00:18:54] And I don't think that movie ever won any awards or anything after it came out.

[00:19:00] No.

[00:19:01] You know, it was really, it wasn't a big budget movie.

[00:19:04] It didn't have a lot of promotion and advertising behind it.

[00:19:07] There were no other stars in it, really, other than John Wayne and Ron Howard.

[00:19:11] And it wasn't, it wasn't over the top.

[00:19:16] You know, there wasn't, it wasn't over the top violence.

[00:19:19] It wasn't over the top sex.

[00:19:21] It wasn't over the top, you know, special effects and all of the things that usually make movies successful.

[00:19:28] It was just a great story with two phenomenal actors.

[00:19:32] And a lot of times it doesn't get attention, you know, when it comes to awards.

[00:19:38] Oh, yeah.

[00:19:39] And you couldn't make that movie nowadays.

[00:19:41] Because everybody wants like a high spot in movies.

[00:19:43] Like, oh, shock value, high spot.

[00:19:46] And that movie didn't have a whole lot of that until the end.

[00:19:50] No, it's kind of a parallel, isn't it, between professional wrestling today in some places and movies.

[00:19:58] Because, you know, if you look at wrestling today, so much of it is driven by the athleticism.

[00:20:04] You know, high spots, call them what you will.

[00:20:06] A lot of big aerial, high flying, visually very cool shit to watch.

[00:20:10] I mean, it is.

[00:20:11] It's like, you know, when I watch Olympic gymnastics floor exercise, I'm just amazed at what people can do with their bodies if they train.

[00:20:22] And a lot of times if I'm watching AEW, oh my God, if I have to watch AEW.

[00:20:27] The wrestling in AEW reminds me of gymnastics floor exercise.

[00:20:31] It's very impressive what these young men and women can do.

[00:20:35] But there's no story behind it.

[00:20:37] It's like going to a Michael Bay action film and seeing 96 minutes of car chases.

[00:20:44] You don't know who's chasing.

[00:20:46] You don't even know why they're chasing each other.

[00:20:48] It's like chasing each other.

[00:20:49] And it's really cool because cars wreck and buildings blow up.

[00:20:52] And, you know, people almost get run over.

[00:20:54] So there's a lot of high action intensity.

[00:20:59] But for no reason.

[00:21:01] And that's what happens with wrestling, I think, a lot of times.

[00:21:05] That's got to be.

[00:21:07] With seeing so much high intensity stuff, like from the wrestling world, does it dim some of the – and being live there, did it make the movies any different for you?

[00:21:18] Because you're always like – you're seeing like live action, like almost like movies playing out live in front of you each week and storylines.

[00:21:28] Did it make you watch like TV less or some of the – I guess you watched some of the movies.

[00:21:32] No, Ray, it actually made me more interested.

[00:21:36] But – and I try to explain this to people.

[00:21:39] I usually don't do a very good job.

[00:21:41] I'll try.

[00:21:42] But like now when I watch – let's say I watch wrestling.

[00:21:47] And, you know, I do.

[00:21:48] I'll drop in on it once in a while, especially Monday Night Raw if I hear somebody that I know is involved in something.

[00:21:53] And if there's something special going on, I'll drop in.

[00:21:56] I'll make a point to watching it.

[00:21:57] But I don't sit and watch every single week.

[00:22:00] And I certainly don't watch three hours of it.

[00:22:02] Oh, my God.

[00:22:05] But when I watch wrestling, I watch it for different reasons than the average viewer.

[00:22:12] I'm looking for the nuances in production.

[00:22:15] I'm looking for something new.

[00:22:17] Are they trying anything different?

[00:22:19] I'm really watching for the details of the storyline to determine how well it's crafted.

[00:22:26] You know, have they spent a lot of time on the storyline?

[00:22:29] Do they have all the story beats where they need to be?

[00:22:35] That I watch for.

[00:22:36] But I don't watch it just to sit back and have a beer and enjoy it.

[00:22:41] I gave that up a long time ago.

[00:22:43] But I do watch it more to analyze it than to be entertained by it.

[00:22:47] That's the best way to say it.

[00:22:50] And, yeah, three hours is a tough thing to get through.

[00:22:54] Especially when, like you said, there's so much high spots and athleticism.

[00:22:59] But the story is like.

[00:23:01] And so that kind of takes you out of it right there.

[00:23:04] Yeah.

[00:23:04] I mean, how many, you know, Hurricane Rodgers can you watch in three hours before you just go?

[00:23:11] Oh, fuck.

[00:23:12] Not another one.

[00:23:13] Oh, my God.

[00:23:14] How many more of these do I have to watch before I can go to bed?

[00:23:18] So much.

[00:23:18] So especially watching so much.

[00:23:21] Did you have a favorite wrestler?

[00:23:25] As a kid growing up?

[00:23:29] Yeah.

[00:23:30] I guess as a kid and also while you were actually like in it, like deep in it.

[00:23:36] Did you have someone that you.

[00:23:38] All right.

[00:23:38] This is someone that I truly enjoy watching do this.

[00:23:43] Yeah.

[00:23:45] I really enjoyed.

[00:23:47] Well, obviously, anything that Eddie Guerrero was involved in.

[00:23:51] He was such a great, great performer.

[00:23:55] I know this isn't a real high profile choice, but I really like watching Steve Regal because he's kind of that old school, little bit of a British, a lot of British kind of wrestling influence in his work.

[00:24:10] And he was so different from a lot of other people.

[00:24:13] And he reminded me of a wrestler that I used to enjoy when I was a kid.

[00:24:17] His name was Billy Robinson.

[00:24:20] Billy was British and he was a technical wrestler, but he was really, really good at it.

[00:24:25] And Steve reminded me of him.

[00:24:27] So I enjoyed him.

[00:24:29] Ivan Putzky, the Polish hammer.

[00:24:32] I liked him.

[00:24:33] He was like when I was a kid.

[00:24:34] He's like a short little guy.

[00:24:35] He's about my height.

[00:24:36] He's like 5'10".

[00:24:37] Not short, but for a wrestler.

[00:24:39] Pretty short back then.

[00:24:41] He must have weighed about 240 pounds because he's just a fireplugged.

[00:24:45] He's a fat, big old belly.

[00:24:47] He wore a white beater to the ring.

[00:24:48] A pair of cutoff jean shorts and a silly cab driver's hat.

[00:24:53] I kind of liked him.

[00:24:55] But as I got older, you know, the guys that I really enjoyed watching, you know, I enjoyed Shawn Michaels.

[00:25:02] You know, I don't know how you could not enjoy Shawn Michaels' work in the ring.

[00:25:07] Scott Hall had some amazing stuff.

[00:25:10] I really enjoyed watching him.

[00:25:12] But, you know, there was a lot of great talent that I was able to watch and work with over the years.

[00:25:17] It's kind of hard to pick them.

[00:25:21] Who's your favorite, Ray, if you had to pick?

[00:25:24] Wow, man.

[00:25:25] You know, I was kind of an asshole.

[00:25:30] It had to have been Stone Cold, man.

[00:25:32] That was my – I don't know.

[00:25:35] It was every time he said candy ass.

[00:25:38] I was a kid when I was watching him growing up.

[00:25:43] Where did you grow up, Ray?

[00:25:45] I grew up in Alabama, Troy, Alabama.

[00:25:48] Okay.

[00:25:49] So a lot of it depends, you know, when people have these types of conversations.

[00:25:54] So much of it depends on how old you were at the time.

[00:25:59] Because you have certain things impress you more at certain ages than at other ages.

[00:26:07] That makes sense.

[00:26:08] And also what part of the country you live in.

[00:26:10] Because some parts of the country wrestling isn't quite as popular as it is in other parts.

[00:26:16] But if you're a young man in your teens, maybe pre-teens, growing up during the Steve Austin era,

[00:26:24] that was a tough era to beat.

[00:26:26] I mean, Steve was so intense and the business was exploding and the crowds were reacting.

[00:26:32] And they were doing all kinds of crazy shit in WWE back then.

[00:26:35] So I can understand why you felt that way.

[00:26:38] Steve was an amazing performer.

[00:26:43] How about you, Isaiah?

[00:26:44] Who did you have?

[00:26:45] Ric Flair, without a doubt.

[00:26:47] The Nature Boy Ric Flair.

[00:26:50] And, of course, The Rock.

[00:26:52] You know, you had to have, you know, The Undertaker and all these guys that were, you know, I guess, what would you say, like the mega, like, mega stars at certain points.

[00:27:07] So I think that's where I, and I didn't really get into, I was into it, you know, and then, you know, like most of them, I kind of went away.

[00:27:14] But then, you know, it came back and then, you know, kind of come and go over the years.

[00:27:19] And that's not unusual.

[00:27:21] You know, I did a lot of research.

[00:27:22] I was part of a group that did a lot of research when we were getting ready to launch Nitro.

[00:27:27] Because we wanted to try to understand the wrestling audience and what they were expecting, what they liked, what they didn't like.

[00:27:34] So we traveled all over the country and did these, they call them focus groups.

[00:27:39] And one of the things that we kept hearing is, you know, people love surprises.

[00:27:44] One of the reasons that people watch wrestling is because you never knew what was going to happen, the unexpected nature of it.

[00:27:52] But, yeah, different people, different parts of the country, they all appreciate wrestling for a different reason.

[00:27:58] That's a, how do you create a focus group for wrestling?

[00:28:01] That's a, in these different areas, that's a.

[00:28:06] Yeah, it was really an interesting, now I've been involved with probably three or four different research projects over the 30 years I was in TV.

[00:28:14] And there was one in particular that was done so well.

[00:28:18] It provided us so much insight as to how we wanted to produce Nitro.

[00:28:24] But we went to, there are research companies all over.

[00:28:28] And we said, hey, we want to identify in each television market.

[00:28:32] So we did like, obviously we did Atlanta, we did Cleveland, Ohio, we did Minneapolis, we did Los Angeles.

[00:28:40] We did somewhere up in like Rhode Island.

[00:28:42] You kind of want a cross section.

[00:28:44] So you're not talking to the same types of people culturally.

[00:28:50] Again, because people in the South, they like a certain style, back then especially, they loved a certain style of wrestling that perhaps people in the Pacific Northwest, they didn't enjoy it as much.

[00:29:03] So you've got to get a cross reference.

[00:29:05] So what this research company did is they would put ads in papers, they'd put up flyers on college campuses.

[00:29:11] They'd do all kinds of reach out.

[00:29:13] This was really before the internet was that big.

[00:29:16] And they paid people to come and be a part of this focus group.

[00:29:22] And really fascinating, man.

[00:29:24] Because we're sitting behind, like I was there, but I was behind a mirror.

[00:29:27] So I could see out, but they couldn't see in.

[00:29:30] They couldn't tell.

[00:29:31] It wasn't just me.

[00:29:32] There was a lot of us there from Turner.

[00:29:35] But, you know, they'd show video of wrestling.

[00:29:38] And then they'd just do a Q&A.

[00:29:40] You know, what did you like?

[00:29:41] What didn't you like?

[00:29:42] Who was your favorite character?

[00:29:43] Why didn't you like it?

[00:29:44] Why did you like it?

[00:29:45] Just ask them a million questions.

[00:29:49] And during that process in all the different cities I went to, the one thing that was common in every city is the surprise issue.

[00:29:57] People wanted to be surprised.

[00:29:59] Which is why I went to live TV instead of tape.

[00:30:02] That's one of the things WWE was doing is they were taped.

[00:30:05] Well, if I'm live, I can do shit that nobody's expecting.

[00:30:08] And it hasn't leaked out.

[00:30:10] Nobody's reading about it in a dirt sheet or talking about it online.

[00:30:14] Because I didn't even know I was going to do it until that day.

[00:30:17] So, you know, when I brought Lex Luger out, everybody thought Lex Luger was under contract to WWF, including WWF.

[00:30:25] He wasn't.

[00:30:26] And I brought him in and shocked everybody with that move.

[00:30:30] And that one move, and that was about the very first episode of Nitro, that one move kind of set the tone that if you want to be surprised, if you want to be a part of something, you don't know what's going to happen next, Nitro's the place to be.

[00:30:44] And it just continued from there.

[00:30:46] I actually went back and watched that episode like a few days ago.

[00:30:50] And when Lex Luger comes out, that crowd goes bananas.

[00:30:54] I mean, it is a huge pop.

[00:30:57] So did a lot of executives in WWE at the time.

[00:31:00] Because they're like, well, what the hell?

[00:31:03] He worked for us last night.

[00:31:07] I think they mentioned that in the documentary, too, about how shocked everybody was that Lex Luger showed up in WCW.

[00:31:15] Yep.

[00:31:17] So it just seems you're a, of course, I can't even say it seems, you're a wealth of knowledge in the production and in the film realm.

[00:31:25] Is that passion of just, I know you're still watching and you're looking for those things.

[00:31:30] Is that still a part of your daily, the production piece?

[00:31:36] Not so much for wrestling, but I am involved in other projects, entertainment projects.

[00:31:44] Again, I've got one wrestling-related project that I'm consulting on.

[00:31:48] But, you know, I've had a chance to work with the writer of Joker, the last two Jokers.

[00:31:56] The last one really sucked, by the way.

[00:31:57] But I got a chance to work with that writer and the director, Todd Phillips, on a Hulk Hogan biopic, Life Story.

[00:32:08] And I don't know that that movie's going to get made.

[00:32:10] Hulk has kind of changed his way.

[00:32:16] But, you know, getting to work with people, I've got another project, another movie project that I am attached to.

[00:32:23] So I'm always looking for something where I can take whatever experience I have and find a new way to use it.

[00:32:30] Like I said, I'm not interested in going back into wrestling again.

[00:32:33] I just don't have the passion for it.

[00:32:35] I've kind of been there, done that.

[00:32:37] But if I can find something different that I've never done before, and I can work with some really talented people,

[00:32:45] I can learn some things, that's probably what I'll end up doing.

[00:32:48] And I look for those opportunities still.

[00:32:53] And you said the second Joker was terrible?

[00:32:57] Well, I haven't seen it.

[00:32:58] I've only read the reviews.

[00:33:00] But evidently, they turned it into a musical.

[00:33:06] Yeah.

[00:33:07] There, there you go.

[00:33:08] That's what everybody said.

[00:33:11] Everybody had the same reaction as you did.

[00:33:14] Ew.

[00:33:17] Yeah, so that movie was on.

[00:33:19] Kind of like the Joker.

[00:33:21] They ain't the same people that like High School Musical.

[00:33:25] No, no, no, no, no.

[00:33:27] Well, you know, I get it, especially when you got an actor like Joaquin Phoenix, who's, he's such an unusual guy.

[00:33:35] I mean, he's really, there's certain actors, and I think even musicians, people in general.

[00:33:41] But for some reason, the most eccentric people seem to find themselves in the entertainment business.

[00:33:48] And Joaquin is certainly an eccentric person.

[00:33:52] It was really his idea.

[00:33:53] He pushed hard to turn it into a musical based on what I've read.

[00:33:58] And the audience just, that's not what they wanted.

[00:34:01] You know, the last Joker, the one previous to this one, was really intense.

[00:34:06] I mean, that was crazy.

[00:34:08] Social commentary.

[00:34:09] I mean, there was a lot of it that people could not only relate to, but it made them a little fearful to know that there were people like the Joker and the previous one.

[00:34:19] And they were walking around, you know, they're on buses and subways and, you know, they're ready to snap at any moment.

[00:34:27] It scared a lot of people.

[00:34:28] That was really intense.

[00:34:30] And in this one, they come out and they're singing and dancing.

[00:34:32] I don't know.

[00:34:35] You don't like musicals?

[00:34:37] You know, I've never seen a musical that I like.

[00:34:40] Oh, come on.

[00:34:41] We be honest.

[00:34:43] You're married.

[00:34:45] Oh, you know what?

[00:34:46] You know what?

[00:34:47] The one musical that I remember.

[00:34:50] Ah, here we go.

[00:34:51] You know, it was back in the 70s or late 60s, early 70s, this Jesus Christ Superstar.

[00:34:57] And the only reason that musical stands out of my mind is so much good music came out of that musical.

[00:35:03] That, you know, it was back in the late 60s, 70s.

[00:35:06] Some people were protesting the war and all kinds of other stuff.

[00:35:09] And a lot of the music that was a part of that musical kind of made it to, you know, AM, FM radio.

[00:35:15] So I remember that.

[00:35:16] But that's about it, man.

[00:35:19] Bye-bye, Birdie.

[00:35:19] I think I was forced to watch Bye-bye, Birdie when I was like, hey.

[00:35:23] It's okay, Harry.

[00:35:24] We see you still got muscles, man.

[00:35:26] You ain't got to.

[00:35:28] I have to be the tough guy.

[00:35:30] You ain't got to be the tough guy.

[00:35:33] He's like, look, man.

[00:35:34] I was a wrestler, man.

[00:35:38] It's all good, man.

[00:35:40] But I still cry at Disney movies.

[00:35:43] Okay, now we get them somewhere.

[00:35:45] We got the exclusive.

[00:35:46] Like if the horse runs off and they can never find the horse again or, God forbid, the dog dies.

[00:35:52] Any of those things happen.

[00:35:54] Oh, man.

[00:35:55] I'm just like a –

[00:35:57] You're tearing up.

[00:35:57] I'm an eight-year-old little girl just crying like a puppy.

[00:36:03] We need to do a watch-along of Old Yeller together.

[00:36:07] That way we can just –

[00:36:08] I can't even watch.

[00:36:12] My wife's making potatoes and onions.

[00:36:17] Those damn onions get me every time.

[00:36:22] Isaiah, where are you from?

[00:36:24] I'm from Southwest Virginia.

[00:36:26] So do you know where Bristol is?

[00:36:29] I do not.

[00:36:32] So it's like –

[00:36:33] You know how Virginia is kind of shaped like a boot?

[00:36:36] Yep.

[00:36:37] So Southwest Virginia is kind of like at the tip of the boot, like way back in the mountains.

[00:36:42] Oh, so you're –

[00:36:43] Yeah, I was going to say.

[00:36:44] So you're in the neighborhood of like Smoky Mountains, right?

[00:36:47] Yeah.

[00:36:48] It's like Wyoming without being in Wyoming.

[00:36:51] Yeah.

[00:36:51] You know what?

[00:36:53] I –

[00:36:53] Virginia –

[00:36:54] No, I've been to obviously Roark and Norfolk and all that.

[00:36:58] But there is a beautiful, beautiful parts of Virginia that my wife and I haven't seen.

[00:37:03] And we hope to visit there sometime in the next year or two just to check it out.

[00:37:07] It's a beautiful, beautiful area.

[00:37:09] Oh, yeah, the breaks.

[00:37:10] Y'all need to check that out.

[00:37:12] You would love that.

[00:37:13] It's a –

[00:37:14] I get to Alabama a couple times a year.

[00:37:17] My podcast partner, Conrad Thompson, is there.

[00:37:21] So I like Alabama too.

[00:37:23] He lives up in Huntsville.

[00:37:24] But Huntsville is kind of – it's different.

[00:37:27] You know, it's Alabama.

[00:37:28] You don't think there's much going on in Alabama.

[00:37:31] But there are – I mean, there's like rocket scientists.

[00:37:35] And I mean, there's a lot of really high-powered people in Huntsville.

[00:37:41] But as a result, they have some good restaurants.

[00:37:43] They have, you know, a couple cool museums.

[00:37:46] The downtown area is nice.

[00:37:48] So it's a nice place to live and it's not super expensive.

[00:37:51] Yeah.

[00:37:52] I mean, I'm in North Carolina here now.

[00:37:54] I've been here since, what, 2008.

[00:37:56] So I'm probably – I'm a North Carolinian almost now.

[00:38:00] But I'm back and forth from here to Alabama all the time.

[00:38:05] What part of North Carolina do you live in?

[00:38:08] I'm in Kings Mountain, North Carolina.

[00:38:10] I'm right outside of Charlotte.

[00:38:12] Maybe 40 minutes from Charlotte.

[00:38:14] So I'm generally in and out of the city.

[00:38:17] Or I just got back from Alabama last night.

[00:38:20] Well, this morning.

[00:38:21] So did the hurricane and the floods and all that,

[00:38:25] did that beat you up pretty bad where you live?

[00:38:27] No, not here.

[00:38:29] You know, I worked at casinos a lot at Cherokee at the Harris Casino.

[00:38:33] So it messed up a lot of the work for a little while.

[00:38:36] But just because that area was so torn up so bad.

[00:38:41] But it hasn't been as bad in my area where I live.

[00:38:46] So it was pretty nice.

[00:38:50] I can't say that.

[00:38:52] We survived.

[00:38:53] But some of the other areas, close to the rocks, a lot of trees were down.

[00:38:56] But I don't think anyone had as huge of an impact as some of the other areas out in Nashville.

[00:39:03] Oh, man.

[00:39:04] It's just devastating.

[00:39:06] I mean, you can't.

[00:39:08] It's not like they're going to be able to clean that up and get back to normal by the end of next month.

[00:39:12] I mean, you're talking about years and years before some of that comes back.

[00:39:17] And unfortunately, especially in Nashville, a lot of those buildings were historic buildings.

[00:39:21] They'd been around for a long time.

[00:39:23] They had so much character.

[00:39:25] And now they're going to have to replace them with new shit.

[00:39:27] It's all going to look like 7-Elevens.

[00:39:31] Yeah.

[00:39:31] Brand new.

[00:39:33] Well, thankfully, I don't think the Biltmore took too much damage, which is kind of like the big historical.

[00:39:40] That's the go-to, you know, when people think of Nashville.

[00:39:43] Oh, the Biltmore.

[00:39:45] So thankfully, that didn't take too much damage.

[00:39:49] But, yeah, all the towns around us were definitely affected because I live in North Carolina too now.

[00:39:55] So, yeah.

[00:39:57] All right, guys.

[00:39:58] So listen, I had to ask you early on how much time we had because I've got another call scheduled.

[00:40:03] It's not a podcast.

[00:40:04] It's a business call.

[00:40:05] But I'm going to have to prep for that.

[00:40:07] I want to thank you guys for inviting me.

[00:40:08] I enjoyed it.

[00:40:09] If you want to do it again after the first of the year, reach out to Evan.

[00:40:15] I'm happy to do it with you.

[00:40:16] I like supporting, you know, guys that are out there trying to hustle and put podcasts together and have some fun doing it.

[00:40:24] So happy to join you again after the first of the year if you'd like.

[00:40:28] Thank you so much.

[00:40:29] Thanks for coming on.

[00:40:31] All right.

[00:40:31] And I want to learn more about stand-up comedy.

[00:40:33] So the next one we're going to do, you guys are going to help me learn a little bit about becoming a stand-up comedian.

[00:40:38] Not that I'm ever going to do it, Mike.

[00:40:40] But I'd like to learn.

[00:40:41] Hey, I'll bring you into our world.

[00:40:43] Take care.

[00:40:43] All right.

[00:40:44] See you guys.

[00:40:45] Have a good one.

[00:40:48] Thanks for listening to the Unplanned and Unashamed podcast.

[00:40:51] If you like what you've heard, make sure to subscribe, rate, review, and follow.

[00:40:56] And we'll see you on the next episode.