[00:00:00] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The Mesh. This podcast is sponsored by Jackson Creative, a custom communication agency located in downtown Hickory specializing in online content creation. To learn more, visit vjaxincreative.com. Jackson Creative, we tell your story.
[00:00:30] This is The Writers Voice, a podcast collaboration between the Mesh.tv and LaNorraine University, a spotlight on writing talent in Western North Carolina.
[00:00:46] Hello and welcome to this unique episode of The Writers Voice here on The Mesh. I am joined today by Garrick Lane. He is going to give us some insight to his writing career both the ups and the downs.
[00:01:00] Garrick is a North Carolina native and is well versed in writing for film and television. Welcome Garrick, thanks for joining me today. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:10] As you know, we are typically connected on this show to LaNorraine University here in Western North Carolina and the writer department. They are, we've got some great talent coming out of that school and here out of the Kataba County and North Carolina area.
[00:01:26] Today we wanted to bring in what I have heard on some other podcasts and an expert on experts type thing. This is no pressure. No experts either. More downs than ups.
[00:01:40] I think it is a chance for even the students that have been on our show and been spotlighted as well as some of the alumni and local writers to actually hear from someone who has been in the business a little bit longer and had some experience as you said ups and downs.
[00:01:56] Let this be a resource for them. But really, I just want to dive in because you've got a lot of stuff that's happened over your life and I think people don't maybe realize that we have this type of person here in Hickory North Carolina.
[00:02:10] So just a quick background near North Carolina native. Correct.
[00:02:14] I grew up here but you went away. As most of us do, go away and then we find our way back.
[00:02:21] That's right. So give me a quick overview of where you went and why you came back.
[00:02:26] Well, I went to California out of high school and I was there for 10 years. What do you see?
[00:02:35] I went to a lot of different places. I was in the middle of the school and I did a lot of internships at studios.
[00:02:42] You go in for six weeks for free and you do all this work and you just have this dream that they're going to keep you on.
[00:02:50] After your six weeks was up, they take you out back and put a slug in. Bring in the next six weeks.
[00:02:57] It's pretty tough out there. I was there pre-NOT 11. There was a lot more accessibility but there was a lot of people out there wanting to do things.
[00:03:11] Believe it or not, I was turned down. Now, Hanside 2020, it's great but I was turned down a record 22 times from Harvey Weinstein's production company.
[00:03:22] I was paying for that job. There's little blessings.
[00:03:29] I was there when I was there. There are the frustrating things. I worked on some movies and I had a couple of screenplays at different agents desk and production companies.
[00:03:45] I got really close. I didn't want to have kids in Los Angeles especially. I left right after 9-11. It was a mess. America was a mess.
[00:03:58] I came back and said, I'm about ready for kids. I'm ready to settle down. Maybe I'll do something else.
[00:04:05] I showed up here and dad's like, well, the court is done. Everything had just dropped after 9-11.
[00:04:14] I was like, well, I guess maybe I can do what I did in Los Angeles in North Carolina and make a living somehow doing it.
[00:04:25] That's where I am now. Here I am.
[00:04:29] I know you on a level of maybe the technical and production side of things. Talk to me about your writing. How long have you been writing?
[00:04:41] Was this something you did when you were younger? Did you always have a passion for writing or did it come about more with the film and television side?
[00:04:50] It was actually one moment. Everything started at one moment. My dad and I left Crown Cinema after watching Raiders of the Law Stark.
[00:05:02] I was like, that's what I wanted to do. And dad's like being archaeologist?
[00:05:08] Being Indiana Jones? No. I want to make movies. Like I want to do that.
[00:05:13] It started the poor guy who was submitted to... Back then we had those choose your own adventure books. I don't know if you remember those.
[00:05:20] I'm great. You go to the page like 30 and then you jumped over the bridge. You would die.
[00:05:27] I started writing Indiana Jones choose your own adventures and would force my dad to read them. I read this, this is work, this is work.
[00:05:35] Then I remember sixth grade. I don't know why I did it. And the only reason I even remember this is I found it at a thing but I found it in a box in the attic in my parents house.
[00:05:46] Different colors. I'd use neon colors but I had written an episodic every week of my friends in sixth grade and were skiing.
[00:05:57] And it was full of drama and boyfriends and girlfriends. It was like a Melrose place, but it was at Beach Mountain and it was Grandview Middle School.
[00:06:05] I don't know why but I started reading through this and I was like, God did I really waste time doing this? But I had written 23 page on notebook paper episodes of me and my buddy Brian Lackie going skiing with our girlfriends.
[00:06:21] I don't know what it was but it was a start. That's where it starts. That's crazy.
[00:06:29] Then I went to my parents ship me off to boarding school. I probably deserved it. Clearly.
[00:06:35] Clearly deserve that. But they ended up giving me another chance. Let me come back my junior year to Hickory High. Well, I guess in revolt, you know,
[00:06:45] rage against the machine and all that stuff's coming out. And it's, you know, revolution and generation X and I just decide to revolts.
[00:06:53] I start instead of writing stories. I started creating this underground newspaper with all the drama that went on at Hickory High and I draw on it.
[00:07:04] I mean, it was handwritten and I'd pass it out in McDonald's and there wasn't always good. But there was, you know, articles handwritten articles. There was stuff in there. In fact, one one art, one, I guess one issue got called the principles ended up with it and I was suspended for 10 days for the content of it.
[00:07:25] Now it's funny because I look back. There was a little rough. 10 days was a little rough. Dr. Massey. It was a little rough because now, you know, somebody of a whole to gun in their hand and send a picture on snaps and they're going to shoot up the school and they'll get 10 days.
[00:07:43] I wrote a newspaper that had a little bit of something in it that wasn't good. So you look back at these things now, whether it's your chiseled adventure or your ski adventure books, whatever it may be, what do you think of your talent back then?
[00:08:01] Did you see talent in it? Did you think this is what you're doing?
[00:08:05] I just, I think I just like to doing it. I don't think it was until I got to Los Angeles that I realized, you know, that this is what I want to do this. It would be great. However, the unfortunate part is I think I was doing all this stuff in school.
[00:08:21] So instead of, you know, learning my English and learning my grammar, I'm just writing. So it's a double-edged sword. I get to college and I'm starting to write scripts and I think goodness, I had a very patient roommate that wouldn't look through and go, dude, you write like your country. You write like a talk. You can't do that.
[00:08:42] So, but yeah, I think that it was, I still like to do it. And I don't now, you know, you got kids and you got a business and my latest script took me seven years to finish.
[00:08:57] Clearly because of the other things you had going on or because of the maybe a writer's block.
[00:09:05] Yeah, I think it was, I think it was to be quite honest. I think it was laziness. And I don't mean that in a bad way but I started, let me retort that actually. It wasn't lazy but I started writing it and because of children and business and everything.
[00:09:26] I mean, I started when I got back from Los Angeles. I worked at furniture company and I was just doing graphic design. And I was, but when I would not at that job, I was at home writing. And that's all I did. I'm going to write. And I actually made two short films in that small year that I was working at that because that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to do films.
[00:09:49] Well, after the second film, I used that film to raise money to start my business. So now I'm shooting corporate video or doing music videos and I'm actually doing it. I'm doing corporate stuff.
[00:10:01] And else suddenly, I don't have time to do, you know, I had the drive but I don't have the time. And so I finally was like, well, I'm going to do this and I would write it and then life would get in the way. You know, shoots all sorts of stuff would happen. Kids getting born.
[00:10:17] And it just then life, then I guess the story would change as my life would change because the story was about a down on his luck and his son prays for him to turn it around and come get the kids. He loses his house, loses his job and everything.
[00:10:38] And so when I started writing it, I was fresh out of a marriage and I was kind of where this guy was. So as I'm writing it, my life is changing because I get remarried and you know, things just...
[00:10:52] And I think it took maybe two years for the real story to form and then where I wasn't disciplined enough to sit and say, I'm going to devote three hours no matter what.
[00:11:06] Devote three hours to the script. And if I would have done that, sure it would have been done earlier but I don't know if it would have been the same.
[00:11:16] I've passed it out to ten people and they're like, it's the best thing you've done. Oh, it only took me seven years. It should be the best thing.
[00:11:26] Right, right. It should be. It took seven years to do. But it is done. And I think the times... I look back, I'm getting all subject but every time that I did finally sit down to work on it, I loved it. It's like therapy.
[00:11:41] Like if you like to write, you've got to do it. You've got to find time to do it. We just have to find time to do it.
[00:11:46] Well, you actually touched on my next question just a little bit already but you know there's obviously all forms of writing.
[00:11:53] You know, there's your journalism that you were doing in high school. Right? That was maybe not everybody's cup of tea but...
[00:12:02] What, where do you drive your creativity and inspiration from? Do you feel like real life experiences make the best writing tools or do you think somebody's imagination does?
[00:12:15] I think it's a little bit of both. I think as far as I've always said that real life is impossible to write. Like it just...
[00:12:25] Sure. It really is. It's impossible. I'm writing a short film right now. We'll just use that as an example.
[00:12:32] And it's going to be a complete spoiler because I'm going to have to tell you the end of the movie to tell you how hard it is to write it.
[00:12:40] But it's basically... We meet this guy at the first scene, you meet this guy and he's working at a plant and he walks home from the plant.
[00:12:50] And you get very quickly, he goes into this rundown house and you get very quickly that something's going down with this guy.
[00:13:00] Like he's very quiet, he doesn't have a phone, he doesn't have a phone and he doesn't drive.
[00:13:05] And so as this 20-minute film goes on, you kind of grasp little things, you get some flashbacks.
[00:13:12] Well, come to find out and you don't learn until like the last five minutes before he accepts the fact that he's finally...
[00:13:21] Basically, he's on his way to... You find out that on the way to a father-daughter dance.
[00:13:27] He's taken a selfie of his daughter and him in the car on the way and he goes through a stoplight and the daughter is killed.
[00:13:36] And that's... And you know, this marriage has gone and everything's changed for him in that split moment.
[00:13:42] That is so hard to write because it's real.
[00:13:47] It's not like the Avengers where you can... Hulk falls into a big skyscraper, nobody does and nobody questions it because it doesn't matter.
[00:13:57] Deep impact, the meteor hits the tower and you have to explain all these people that they've done.
[00:14:03] Like it's completely different. So fantasy, you gotta know the history and the lore and the mythology of like Joseph Campbell and stuff like that.
[00:14:15] But you can bend the rules whereas real life, you can't bend the rules. It has to be real.
[00:14:21] Selfies running stoplights.
[00:14:24] Yeah, like heart-sounding children. That cuts to the core. That's the deal.
[00:14:28] Absolutely. And then be unable to... He has to not be... He doesn't use a phone and he won't use a car so therefore he's got a job close to his house and he walks there back and forth and he rejects everything.
[00:14:44] How do you write when the girl comes into his life that kind of gets him over the hump? Like how do you... You have to physically take that journey with that guy.
[00:14:57] Whereas Captain America can just show up on a some crazy skyscraper or some big...
[00:15:05] Everybody saved and it's... Yeah, right.
[00:15:09] Yeah, so it's completely different. It's hard writing real life is completely impossible.
[00:15:15] Do you ever have the urge to not write real life stuff? Seems like all the things you've told me about that you write are...
[00:15:23] Wheels, ski trips to beach mountain which we all experience. You write about your high school stuff and now you've written about this tragedy with a real life stuff.
[00:15:33] But what about the fantasy stuff? Do you like that?
[00:15:36] So, crazily enough my closest... My two closest I guess door openers of scripts were fantasy.
[00:15:47] My first one was it's like a very pumped up water world. I know water world tanks. It's probably not a good example but it was a world where there was...
[00:15:57] But in the real scheme of things did water world tank or you know when we're talking about scripts not being even past the desk, right?
[00:16:05] You would have taken water world, right?
[00:16:08] Oh yeah, absolutely. What is just this fantasy world of jungles and lots of oceans it's kind of like a pirate thing but there's magic and...
[00:16:17] It was great. It was four of us working on it and it was good. It was solid and it actually got through and went to like four or five desks and got a rewrite and went back to the desk.
[00:16:30] Now this was mind you 1999. Lord of the Rings, there wasn't anything going on. Willow had tanked and there was not anything going on so my final...
[00:16:43] The final rejection on that script was it's good. We just don't have a market for it and I'm like okay that's fair enough they're not doing big fantasy movies right now.
[00:16:53] Titanic and just come out. They're not doing, you know, they're just not doing that.
[00:16:57] And then of course Lord of the Rings comes and then Game of Thrones and you look back and you go oh.
[00:17:02] So funny, because all four of those guys that helped me do that about two years ago message me and said we need to break that script up and try to sell it to...
[00:17:13] Like we need to re-work it and try to sell it to Hulu or Netflix or somewhere because right now Prime is working on their Lord of the Rings episodes or their whole like...
[00:17:25] Yeah. It's a good time to work on that again.
[00:17:30] And then the other one, the one that got in at Hulu where we did three re-writes before they rejected me.
[00:17:35] It was a script about a guy, a really terrible human being who dies and goes to hell and the devil says I don't want you.
[00:17:47] You're going to get one more chance. And so he goes back into part of it goes back into the way they send them up to heaven and heaven's like we don't want you either you're awful, you're awful human being.
[00:17:57] You're going to get one more chance we're going to let you go back because we just we don't want you we don't want you this way you need to get fixed and it's comedy but it was sure loads of fantasy because he's there's just.
[00:18:09] So maybe that's maybe that's the way in. If anybody wants to write a script you know, know your market and that's that's the way to do it.
[00:18:17] Well so spinning off that a little bit. Think about speaking to maybe the the other writers have been on these episodes of the writer's voice.
[00:18:27] What do you tell them on how to get this started because clearly it doesn't matter your genre that you're writing for or really the topic.
[00:18:37] You know, the matter is you're going to find somewhere that you need to be where what do you suggest like what's what's just the starting point.
[00:18:45] The starting point is is the same story arc every every every every story has a act one act two and act three has a story arc it's the same now how you spin that same arc in an original way is the only way that you can do it.
[00:19:06] And and if it's it's amazing because I hear so much that Netflix you know just all this all this programming this online programming is so much better than TV well they don't number one they don't have your rules.
[00:19:21] And two they were the ones that went and grabbed all that stuff that was real unique that maybe would have been too risky to shoot in you know in film on 35 millimeter and said well let's just try this and it's all and if you notice it's all original.
[00:19:42] It's the same story but it's all completely original and I think that's I think it used to be well when I was 20 now halfway to the grave so I'm starting to you know I'm starting to check that I'm really starting to check the time like okay what do I need what is what is going but as much as you like writing if you really want to be successful or if you want to sell something or you really want to make a film or you really want to get published.
[00:20:12] Do the research first and find out what people are reading and good I know I know it stinks because you're supposed to just write what you love but.
[00:20:21] If people are if people want to hear films with a guy running around with a hockey mask on that's what that's what studios and readers digest and all these people are buying.
[00:20:34] Then find your find that kind of story and work it your way and do it that way get in you like everything needs marketing now so you can't just you can't just write some film about a hot air balloon in a house with two old people.
[00:20:50] And expect it to do any good you got you got to you got to know that the studio wants something like that and then you write it that way if that makes any sense that was a.
[00:21:01] It does know it does it's you know I actually this is side note I saw something the other day actually Gina Davis yes has this new well she has a research group that she works within her film company that works with Google to Google has developed an app for them that they are able to record everything within a film or television show.
[00:21:29] To find out how much time women are represented because that's what Gina Davis is platform is right as is women agree in the industry absolutely.
[00:21:39] And so they can monitor how many lines a woman has how many minutes she gets to speak versus how many the men do plus take their salary ratio and blah blah blah and it says whole algorithm of stuff right but it's crazy it is and it's just by you know they push this app to the film and they watch it one time in the.
[00:21:59] The numbers are everywhere right that is all she was explaining how.
[00:22:04] 2012 they saw from 2011 to 2012 they saw this huge spike in women sporting stuff and everybody was like what is going on like why are you know they're tying it all back and stuff and they find out.
[00:22:22] Okay brave came out then and so did hunger games.
[00:22:27] What sport do both those a cartoon and well I mean you know cartoon and hunger games you know which appeals to many ages right.
[00:22:39] Bowen arrow classes in archery becomes a huge thing and it's women empowerment right so it's she said after that you know all these archery groups are forming and clubs are coming up and everything and that's the same thing you're talking about right look at what's happening there.
[00:22:55] And if you can write to that then you're probably going to be in a much better spot not saying you have to but.
[00:23:03] She probably doesn't hurt you're absolutely right and to go back to my my script the faithful season not you know when I started years ago.
[00:23:15] I'd always said you know and this faith based films were not really doing anything back then you know they're easier to make which is why I started writing it that way you know it's like well it's easier to make than a horror movie you can't slash movies nobody's going to give you money.
[00:23:32] I was about to say because of budget yeah budget and people just they're not going to they're not giving money for their faith based films that can be sold to Walmart you know to sold DVD straight to Walmart are much easier to fund funding for well what's great is is throughout that again as that journey took seven years it's almost perfect because.
[00:23:54] Even just seven years ago I said well i'm going to have i'm going to have an interracial it's going to be the first faith based film with an a racial relationship the leads going to be white sex white could be white but he's going to find this beautiful African American woman that sings church that's going to turn him around.
[00:24:15] And it's funny because a lot of people were like care man you're in the south you're going to be selling to you know churches and people like this do you think that that's a good idea and I said well I think it's a great idea because it's it's change it's.
[00:24:33] It's the new is this is that's another new market like that's I'm gonna be honest like that's dollars like huge dollars now hang so you do that you know you had that you had good gospel music and you had
[00:24:44] baseball I mean it's a money maker so you got to know that that's that's what you're selling it's it's not just a story anymore you got to sell the social media you got to market it so you know if you got it what's going on like you say to people right now apparently people are writing me to the me to move a lot of revenge movies with women who've been you know something.
[00:25:13] Something's happened with them that's what's getting picked up even if they're not even at the films are getting made that's what people are buying an option in these scripts that are about you know horrible horrible man who got away you know for 20 years and speak a hard one state right got away with you know the old way of life so.
[00:25:34] That's it like say sometimes it's if you like to write forecast what people are buying or that's what if you like to write just because you like to write do whatever but if you want to if you want to find a way in like if you really want to sell that script or you.
[00:25:50] You want to win that contest find what they're get find what they're liking who's reading it and what they like and what they're taking and and cater your story to that.
[00:26:01] Because I would imagine you know and correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not a writer but if you are wanting to just get that that script picked up if you're wanting that.
[00:26:14] That poem to be published if you're wanting this and you maybe adjust your style a little bit to cater to whatever is going on at that point the thought process to me would be get yourself in the door somewhere yeah and then as soon as people start liking your stuff you get to write whatever you want oh yeah right
[00:26:33] Absolutely if I can get you know the faithful season I don't I don't always directed my own movies course I've only done four so I don't know any better but with this one I was like look I don't even mind if somebody takes it and they read it they go we want to do it but we're going to have this guy over here direct it and hey you can be on set you can watch and you can help produce and do all this stuff I'm going to be like fine
[00:27:02] because once we do it if it's successful I can give him that slasher movie so I've got to sell the slasher movie that I've had I've been holding on to for 20 years I'd like to do can I do this now and suddenly that door is open.
[00:27:16] Larry Kohn he's up he's up from the 70s and 80s he used to make B movies and he made a ton of money making crap Roger Korman kind of movies but he had some see but everybody liked his writing and he had he would pump out a script every like two years so he had this big this big shelf of scripts and he just stopped working
[00:27:41] so he just decided I had done 20 45 movies or whatever it's like all right I'm just chill so for 20 years he didn't do anything but every now and then when he needed money he'd call his agent and pull one script out of that desk and say I need you to sell this I'm running out of money.
[00:27:58] Well and they would sell it you know you'd make 100 grand or whatever it was and then he would he would enjoy that he would just sit and then when it's time to get more money but what you're in the door yeah you can do that right yeah Aaron Sorkin could write I don't know if anybody knows Aaron Sorkin I did his master class like he's he's my David Mammett and him are like my favorite writers but he he could probably write a
[00:28:27] feature-length film about grass growing and somebody would option the script. This is a name attached to you right yeah there's could be some time lapses of grass growing it's gonna be great there's gonna be a caterpillar come along it's pretty good it's only 100 it's only 90 pages it's good somebody's gonna cut them a check for that yeah because of who he is well so let's say that the people listening out there are are ready to go they're ready to do something they're ready to take the next step again whether it's
[00:28:56] publishing in a book whether it's getting a film made whether it's a script whatever how do you prepare for rejection and how do you come back from it oh you don't take it personal yeah book and when you when you put that script that manuscript in your hand and you go this is great the chances are it's not I have given the last three things I would say I'm not going to do that.
[00:29:26] I would say the last three things that I've been trying to do try with the Hulu pitch and the last two scripts I've written I'm giving it to 20 people and I'm letting them and I'm like rip it apart or don't rip it apart but I be prepared you just have to have thick skin and you just have to know that
[00:29:45] that's just the only way it's gonna get better is to get rejected you don't you're the only way you the only way you get better is by failing okay well you're rejecting this you know with Hulu my my little death you know my meat Joe Black kind of teen angst of pilot file he finally said it's not edgy enough like it needs to be more edgy we need more sex and more cussing and more comedy and I'm like well I don't know if I can do it
[00:30:15] I do comedy so I guess we're just done here you know what I mean and it was a bummer but it's like it's sex and cussing I got it's just yeah I can do all that stuff but it's it's just like anything else the more you lose the more you learn yeah
[00:30:32] and the all I can say is you'll get rejected but but if you get rejected you are 92% better than all the other people that never finished and that's the bottom line I'm in the I'm in the film business and I everybody I talk to I have a drink or whatever and they're like all dude you make movies hey I got this movie idea oh yeah you got it written down well not here okay
[00:31:02] we got you got some scenes got some index cards with some of the scenes on it you got any I've started yeah you got a pitch letter something no man but hey we should get together man you could help me get it now no I'm good you gotta finish it you got it you got to sit down and find time and finish it if you got 56 pages of a script and you think it's horrible finish it anyway
[00:31:27] because it's really the only way you'll ever get a chance to get rejected is to be able to physically take that script and go Harvey you're looking for a comeback hey I've got this great script here and it doesn't involve anything bad it's good it can redeem you here it's here wow it really must be good yes it must be real good it's really good yeah
[00:31:52] so how do you prepare to pitch what are some what are some tips you could give about pitching yourself and or your project you need to be able to explain this movie you need to wow everybody with two sentences
[00:32:08] and that's it and then sometimes they'll ask you for give me two movies so okay well the faithful season is the apostle meets for the love of money no I'm sorry for the love of the game with Kevin Costner meets the apostle with Robert DeVal how about that yeah I don't know you know like you just you know they'll hit you like so so you need to have the research and you really need to be and it really that's funny because the pitch
[00:32:38] and the query letter that would come after that the pitch is the originality and if that pitch if you can't I guess what am I trying to say if you can explain your movie in two to three sentences then you need to go back to the drawing board
[00:32:56] and rework it because it should come very easy to you three three sentences to be able to explain your story and to wow somebody go that sounds pretty good that's that's what Hulu and Netflix if you can get in the door
[00:33:10] and get through the first door where they'll actually listen to what you have to say you'll send them an email and it'll be three sentences with an attached query letter from there they'll say we like this do you have a written story
[00:33:24] we like this do you have a written script I would have a written script I wouldn't say well I can write it now because they're going to throw it that's going to be like a so have the written hey we like this the written script then that that'll go to the that'll go to Netflix Hulu the readers will read it then they'll go back to the guys and say what we kind of like this but we don't like this part so then they'll come back to you and say well we like this but we know we want you to take out the you know we want you to take out the baseball we don't like the baseball part but make it football okay so
[00:33:54] then you'll do a couple of rewrites but you're in and then they might turn you down and you spent six months on a script and you haven't made any dollars however if you can get to that point they'll listen again you'll get because you're already through that door then you can send go hey Brad Brent I've got this different I got this new when we check it out yeah and you're always in that list and sooner or later
[00:34:16] not going to would they'll be like we really like this so now what they'll do is they'll give you a letter of intent saying hey we'll
[00:34:24] we'll pay for seven episodes of this if you can get it made and then you take that letter of intent to people that got
[00:34:31] have money and you guys you want to make some money we're gonna make this yeah I mean it's a true shark tank yeah
[00:34:37] that's really a real shark tank at that point really that letter is all you have and if you can't sell
[00:34:42] if you can't find backers or you know hedge fund guys and people that give you money with that piece of paper
[00:34:51] and then you're in trouble but I mean that's pretty much how it works and sometimes they sometimes they'll shoot they'll
[00:34:57] they'll give you the money to shoot the pilot and then they'll if you like they like to pilot they'll just go ahead and order it
[00:35:03] there's all sorts of different ways but the way in is to be able to wow them with three sentences so
[00:35:10] that means that that script better be good and you better be able it better be good and you better be able to
[00:35:16] wow them with those three two three sentences and if you can do that you can get the door and then
[00:35:21] you can just keep churning it until somebody goes fine fine oh my gosh with Mike one fine quit calling me
[00:35:28] yeah but that's what I should be doing oh people get mad at me because they're like you're in the
[00:35:33] door and I'm like yeah but I have five kids there's a I'm trying to make my film and I'm trying to
[00:35:38] keep the lights on and I know it's no excuse but I'm not 21 anymore I can't I can't move in with
[00:35:44] my parents and sitting front of the typewriter and just go yeah you know I said when I've the first
[00:35:51] meeting I had with Hulu I sent them a spreadsheet a spreadsheet of ideas there was 23 pitches on this
[00:35:59] thing I still have it they I haven't seen any of them come out but that's if they were finally like
[00:36:05] oh my gosh we like this one I'm like sweet you like this one 23 I had 23 different pitches on
[00:36:12] this thing this was right when Hulu was coming out this was right now it's different of course but
[00:36:16] right when they were coming out they're like content yeah yeah I had 23 and they were like well
[00:36:23] we like this one I'm like wow just like this one and this one like these are already written yeah
[00:36:29] but let me talk to you about this one yeah come on I think why did the comedy why did you get
[00:36:34] the comedy look at number 16 yes yeah you don't like this one that one of the easier right okay
[00:36:41] no but that's it it's it's it's good but it it comes down to you can't get rejected unless
[00:36:48] you do it yeah so what's next for you to get rejected over and over and over again check check
[00:36:57] well I have I sent my film through the focus group and we finally finally came down we're
[00:37:05] fighting with the ending again a marketing situation where we don't know if he needs to win
[00:37:12] if the the audience wants him to win or if they want him to lose because it doesn't matter
[00:37:17] so you know it's one of those things we're gonna rewrite the I'm gonna rewrite the ending
[00:37:22] and I'm gonna I'm gonna start going door to door literally rejecting to faith-based film
[00:37:29] productions and say hey I got I had this movie you need to look at this movie you need to look at
[00:37:34] this movie build some you know social media marketing and then while that's happening I'm going
[00:37:39] to I'm gonna finish my little short film and shoot it around here just a case because I haven't
[00:37:48] shot one in a while so I need to I think coincide while we're looking for money for this or we're
[00:37:53] trying to get this one produced me getting back in the saddle and doing something like that to be
[00:37:58] able to compliment it say I can you know here's this this is dramatic as it can be and it's got
[00:38:05] a good it's got a huge theme I mean dad you know he's taking a selfie yeah he's there's a selfie
[00:38:12] it kills his only only daughter and his life is over yeah you know how do you get back in the
[00:38:17] saddle with that so we're gonna I'm gonna I'm working on that and I'm gonna try to sell this
[00:38:22] thing and see what happens well working on some other stuff too yeah I knew that was gonna be coming
[00:38:29] up I figure you know you every time I talk to you I feel like you're on the go doing something
[00:38:36] different going from here it's all different stuff but within the same industry you know I mean
[00:38:41] you're still it's still that video multimedia if you will even you have your own podcast yeah tell
[00:38:50] us about that you talked about a B movies a little earlier that's really what your podcast is
[00:38:55] about right well we do movies it's it's more Lee Lee the guy do it with it's more his podcast
[00:39:02] because he's like the he's the historian but it's basically a podcast about the films that nobody's
[00:39:08] ever heard of but you must see it's like the good stuff yeah the people don't you know when you
[00:39:14] go on Netflix you'll scrub by that brawl on cell block 99 with Vince Vaughan on it and you'll you
[00:39:20] know you'll pass by phone booth and these little movies you just skip those to go watch Avengers for
[00:39:25] the sixth tink time so my my podcast is about hey you got to go back you should try that movie it's
[00:39:32] pretty good that's really all it is and it you know it keeps us it keeps me inspired
[00:39:38] and it's called it's called tails from the video store and where can people find it
[00:39:45] at video store tails.com excellent so moving forward any last bits of advice for those
[00:39:55] butting writers struggling writers or just anyone that thinks they maybe have a talent and maybe
[00:40:03] have never told anybody. Read read lots of stuff if you like there's a book I there's a book I live by
[00:40:13] actually have it here because I needed to I wanted to at some point in time make sure that I said it
[00:40:18] but there's a book out there Joseph Campbell it's old it's old as Muthuselum but it's Joseph Campbell
[00:40:24] and it's the hero with a thousand voices and it's the mythology of the character arc and it's
[00:40:32] it explains when you know when you sit down to have a story there's there's a main character
[00:40:38] and this explains in a really great way in a mythology how that arc how the characters should
[00:40:44] arc and how how you go from broke you know not seeing your kids to almost pitching the perfect game
[00:40:53] and you know in the championship of minor league baseball so it's you need to read and you know
[00:41:01] this is gonna sound funny but I spark a lot of creativity doing stuff outside the box I've started
[00:41:08] playing D&D more I used to play D&D but it's great because it comes with good state well explain
[00:41:14] that because I don't understand that what you don't understand dungeons and dragons not a bit
[00:41:19] okay so basically dungeons and dragons it's all fantasy but you come in and you're a character
[00:41:26] and there's a gant and there's a DM there and he has a map and you you can play an L for you
[00:41:32] can play a warlock a warlock and you can play different characters and you kind of you know
[00:41:37] you kind of act it's kind of improv and you have to create this world and the DM will explain you
[00:41:43] know you're going through this hallway and this monster comes out you just I can't explain it
[00:41:48] hey my wife thinks it's the dumbest thing ever but it's like it really has about two years ago
[00:41:58] I was really getting it was it I was just getting dry and I'm like my life is passing before
[00:42:03] man I'm not writing and I'm not being creative I'm shooting another Walmart commercial you know what
[00:42:09] I mean I'm just like oh am I really shooting another arm leg on a furniture plan again like wow
[00:42:15] cool and I decided to what a buddy of mine was playing he's like he should come play and I'm like
[00:42:21] oh man I haven't played that since college and I played and I was hooked but it also spawned
[00:42:28] it brought me back in like to create you know like it brought the creative juices back
[00:42:33] and it really did and it's helped it ever since like it really does however now it's
[00:42:38] you know you devote two or three hours a week to Dungeons & Dragons instead of writing so
[00:42:44] you know and then you got podcasted another hour and I'm like dude if I took all that stuff away
[00:42:50] you know I could write more so there you go you just have to pick your battles I guess
[00:42:53] with all secret tips you're giving us you know secret tips you can go play dungeon and dragons
[00:42:58] I'm telling you you you should just come one time and just try it my wife she she's there's some
[00:43:04] people that are right brained and left brain and they don't get it but this we're playing on Sundays
[00:43:11] and three people four people of the seven had never played before interesting yeah and on the DM
[00:43:18] so I'm like the storyteller imagine that and they left after the first session they left and
[00:43:25] they started texting on their friends and they're like this is the coolest thing ever so you either
[00:43:29] get it or you don't it's crazy but it's it's just a way you know it's everybody draws their
[00:43:34] inspiration from something yes but I guess getting back to them uh I would just that the I guess
[00:43:40] the most important thing I would say is to finish yeah get it done and if you're if you have to
[00:43:45] force your dad to read it over and over make a roommate read it you know do it do it spend time
[00:43:52] on it don't don't rush through it I had a buddy who who would write scripts and you know he
[00:43:57] would give me a new script and it was three week he said I wrote this in three weeks and I'm like well
[00:44:01] I bet it's gonna it's better it's going to read like you wrote it three weeks like take your time
[00:44:06] you know devote certain amount of time a week to doing it really um you know write 20 pages and get
[00:44:12] a good friend to read it and go well you know did that grab you is that good you know just do it but
[00:44:17] but the main main thing is you can have that script you have that story in your head for 20 years
[00:44:24] you can't do anything with it when it's in your head not anymore you gotta have you gotta have
[00:44:28] it in front of somebody so finish very cool well I really appreciate your time today absolutely thank
[00:44:36] you and come and buy and share some insight especially for the audience that this show has
[00:44:41] generally appealed to you know people that enjoy good writing and enjoy writing themselves
[00:44:48] um some people that do it for themselves some people that are looking to go further with it um
[00:44:54] and and obviously as you told me before this episode you said I'm good at getting rejected
[00:45:00] and I understand how this works yeah they're done that I'm happy to share it with everybody you
[00:45:05] know and and it's not to be doom and gloom about it but it's a it's a part of the process
[00:45:10] absolutely and so I really appreciate you sharing that being very candid about it
[00:45:13] oh absolutely yeah finished it you can get rejected and then you just
[00:45:17] and you too could be like garrick lane yeah and hey if you got in the door if they let you through
[00:45:23] the the interface of the computer and gotten you got in the door to get rejected
[00:45:29] you're doing better than more than half other writers out there that aren't doing anything so
[00:45:33] all victories yeah absolutely absolutely excellent well we really appreciate you uh
[00:45:39] joining us here on the writer's voice today and to everyone out there listening thanks for
[00:45:44] tuning in and we will catch you next time only on the mesh
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