Episode 5: Catawba County Vietnam Veterans: In Their Own Words with James Ball

[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The MESH.

[00:00:17] Welcome to the Historical Association of Catawba County's Podcast. I am Director of Education, Alyssa Ball, and I am here today with one of my most favorite people in the entire world, my grandfather, Jim Ball. Thank you for being here with me today. It's my pleasure.

[00:00:35] So today, we're going to do a continuation of an oral history interview series that we started last year called the Vietnam Veterans Oral History Project in commemoration of the 70th anniversary since the beginning of the Vietnam War and the 50th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War. So we are really glad to be continuing that story and be sharing the story of these brave warriors with the world and especially our community.

[00:01:04] So today, we're going to talk a little bit about some of the stories that you've told me before as a child, but something that I think it would be really important for our community to hear from you as well about your life and what you went through as well when you were in the military. So first, start from the beginning. Tell me a little bit about where you grew up and what life was like for your family.

[00:01:28] Well, I grew up, well, I was born in Nashville, and my family moved down here because of the employment opportunities. And I grew up in Claremont, North Carolina. The country atmosphere there, I worked on the farm very early in my life.

[00:01:56] I started driving tractors at 10 and picking up hay at 12 and doing all the many, many jobs related to farm work from that time on until I graduated high school. I also started at 13. I worked at a grocery store in Claremont, B and Rau, B and Rau's grocery store.

[00:02:28] They were a wonderful, wonderful older couple and just enjoyed that very, very much. And just like all the other kids, I went to school and played sports as much as I could. But I would go to work, come home, go to school the next day.

[00:03:00] And just enjoyed life in the community because, you know, all the kids were your friends. But it was just a rural life. You just rode bicycles and went swimming and fished and just the things boys grow up doing.

[00:03:31] So it sounds like you are a pretty responsible type of kid, right? I think so, but I'm prejudiced. That's true. You probably would be, right? So tell me about your family. What was your family like? Well, my mom and dad both were very, very hard workers. My mom was a tow steamer at Hutchins O'Jerry Mill.

[00:03:56] My dad worked with a cotton plant, Catawba Cotton Batten in Claremont. But my dad's job was very, very, very hard, very, very dirty. But that's the kind of man he didn't mind doing it for his family. So I'm very, very proud of both of them because they were very, very hard workers.

[00:04:25] What about siblings? Well, I have two sisters. They were twins at a very early age. They were prize winners. They won my mom a refrigerator and washer and dryer. And I can't think of all the other things that they won just because of being born when they were born, which was September 23rd, and they were six minutes apart.

[00:04:55] So they weren't identical, but they were twins. And then my brother born two years later, Charlie, and he was just a piece of work. He was always fiddling with something. He's real mechanically minded.

[00:05:22] And he had his joy ride for a couple years, and then my youngest brother was born. And Steve became the baby of the family, so the girls helped take care of him. And I helped take care of him, and he kind of became my shadow. So he grew up following me wherever I went. Still a little bit to this day. Somewhat.

[00:05:54] Well, what did military service, what role did it play in your family before Vietnam? Well, my dad wasn't in service, but my mom and dad both, they were very proud to be Americans. And we celebrated the Fourth of July. We celebrated the Memorial Days.

[00:06:23] Everything that the people in that time did to build the spirit, the American spirit. Embrace patriotism. Right. Yeah. So what did you think that your future would look like as a young man? What was your dream or your predictions about where you would go in life?

[00:06:52] Well, originally, well, I ran track in high school, and I was a better-than-average mile runner. And I actually placed second in the state, and I got a scholarship to go to Pembroke College.

[00:07:16] And my intent to go to college was to become an architect. I've always liked drawing. I've always liked building things, seeing things built, and enjoying the architecture the way they were built.

[00:07:39] But I had a friend that, prior to starting college, invited me to take another turn and join the Marine Corps. And we decided, well, we'd go in on the buddy plan. We'd spend four years. We'd get out.

[00:08:09] We'd go back to college. We'd get our degrees. And at that time, there too. Vietnam was, it was beginning. And Vietnam never entered our mind as far as getting out of the service and, I mean, as far as being in the Marine Corps and having to go there.

[00:08:39] But that was the only service that we ever gave any mind to was the Marine Corps. And I'm sure that kind of was the way it worked for a lot of people, that the Marine Corps and other military branches were able to kind of entice young men to join service. Because, you know, with the GI Bill, they were like, well, you know, I want to go to college, but I don't really have a way to pay for it. So if I spend four years in the military, I can be set up for the rest of my life.

[00:09:09] And, you know, I think that there was probably a lot of people that had that same mindset. At that time, yes. And a lot of people, although the economy was in pretty good standing, still, you know, families that were working for a living couldn't really put money aside, especially if you have a family of five, for your kids to go to college.

[00:09:39] So, you know, there had to be other alternatives. Especially middle class at the time. Because, you know, most middle class were two factory workers. Having a family of five, six, seven, up to ten, maybe sometimes, you know, just large families to try to care for on not large salaries. So that makes a lot of sense. So before you went into the military, before you ever put on a uniform, what do you remember hearing about Vietnam?

[00:10:09] Actually, it was mostly what you saw on television. Which, you know, Walter Cronkite gave a, you know, a real, actually kind of a scary depiction of what was going on there. But it was a nation under turmoil.

[00:10:37] One, you know, the North Vietnamese trying to take over the South Vietnamese. And, you know, as far as knowing the history and what was, what had created the Vietnamese War, I don't think they were pondering on it too much except for trying to stop communism from taking over another part of the country that didn't want to be communist.

[00:11:05] Right. And then those surrounding countries like, you know, Laos and those falling Cambodia, those also falling to communism. Because I think, you know, the big argument was that, well, if Vietnam goes, all of those will domino effect. Right. So what was the mood in your community, our community here really, regarding the war at that time?

[00:11:34] Well, I don't think that, again, this was just a rural community. And I think, you know, it's like anything. It's like, you know, World War I, World War II. I think the people wanted to just, you know, do the best they could with what they had. And if what they had to sacrifice, they did.

[00:12:01] But you didn't, people weren't standing around on corners and sitting around the square and stuff talking about, you know, the Vietnam War. If they did, it was, you know, opinionated people that had already made up their mind what, you know, what they think the United States should do or how they should react and how they should handle what was going on.

[00:12:28] But, again, being 18 years old, at the time, the political status was one of the fatherless things from our minds. So your friends really didn't talk about it or have any opinions about it? Well, opinions, yes. Everybody had an opinion. Sure.

[00:12:56] You know, a lot of guys said, well, let's make sure we get in college, you know, so we don't get drafted. Because that was always a fear at, you know, when I turned 18, you know, because the draft was still in full effect. And if you were drafted, you know, you had to give two years. If you joined, you gave four.

[00:13:23] And I'm one of those people, I don't ever want to wait to have somebody do something to me or for me. I'd rather pick and choose and go where I think I'd be best suited. Yeah. And that makes total sense.

[00:13:41] You know, it's easier to choose which branch you get placed in and maybe what kind of specialty school you want to go to if, you know, you enlist instead of having to be drafted to just wherever they need you, right? Right. So looking back now, how informed do you think you were at the time? Do you think it was just the news, just the things that you were hearing on the street corners?

[00:14:07] Or did you feel like you weren't really informed about it at all? Well, I think I was – well, I certainly wasn't a scholar about it, but I think I was pretty well informed as far as, you know, what to expect. You know, if in fact, you know, I got orders, that it wouldn't surprise me.

[00:14:36] And, you know, there are guys that went in the same time I did that, you know, they never saw the shores of Vietnam. Right. And, you know, for whatever reason, their MOS may have steered them in a totally different direction. Did your parents ever talk about it to each other that you heard or with you specifically?

[00:15:04] Really, I don't think that I can remember. War was not something that was a discussion topic in our family especially.

[00:15:22] But it was more, you know, it was more the war on just surviving as, you know, making sure there's food on the table and roof over your head and things like that. The essentials of life.

[00:15:41] And what was going on in our nation was, again, more what you saw and heard as far as the radio. And, you know, it was kind of like everything at a distance. That makes sense. That makes total sense. Right.

[00:16:03] I'm sure that, you know, maybe from if you were in a household where your parents had possibly been in the military, it may have been more of a topic of discussion. But with your dad not being military, it may have just not been something that they thought was appropriate to discuss around their kids, which makes total sense. Right. So tell me about the day that you decided you were going to go into the military. You briefly mentioned it.

[00:16:29] But tell me about your friend and what kind of led you guys to that decision besides, you know, being able to get your four years of college. Well, I personally did some research and decided that if I went in the Marine Corps that I wanted to go air wing.

[00:16:49] I wanted to work on aircraft and learn as much as I could so that I would have a basis when I got out of service,

[00:16:59] maybe to go to work for an aircraft company or, you know, designers or whatever of military or just regular aircraft. And my friend who had already had he had had a year of college and dropped out.

[00:17:32] His his was pretty well set for him. He was going to be he's going to be some sort of disc jockey. He was going to be involved in and something just in documentation or in office work or whatever. Because that was that was his background in in college.

[00:17:56] And so anyone going into any of the branches of service at that time, if they had background, you know, they pretty much tried to use them in that MOS or what they you know, what they would be the biggest help for the military is. Yeah. Their skills and abilities that that makes sense, too. Yeah. So what conversations did you have with your family and friends when you shared with them that you had decided to join the Marine Corps?

[00:18:28] Well, I'm sure my parents were both very, very proud. Neither one tried to talk me out of it. And my grandparents, again, they were very proud of me. But, you know, one of my uncles was already in service and and he was he's only two years older than I am.

[00:18:53] So they were they were proud of both of us for serving our country. And what emotions stand out when you think about that moment today when you remember deciding to join the Marine Corps, signing up? And what was that feeling for you? Well, there was, I think, a feeling of excitement because it's kind of kind of the unknown.

[00:19:22] I didn't know what to expect, but I knew that, you know, I felt like I was joining the best the best group. And, you know, it was one of those things where everybody I talked to, they said, well, you know, the Marine Corps, you come out better prepared from the Marine Corps than any other branch of service.

[00:19:54] And but I think every branch of service, the Air Force, the Navy, the Army, all of them are very, very essential. And the training that you get, if you are if you have the imagination to use it is very effective and, you know, changing your life when you when the military is behind you.

[00:20:26] So what was the biggest shock when you arrived at basic training? Well, the biggest shock was when the bus driver pulled over and Buford, South Carolina and opened the door on the bus. And he said, this is your last chance, because once we cross this bridge, there's only one way on the island and one way off.

[00:20:55] And so if you want to go now, go ahead. And there was a silence on the bus. Everybody looked around. And to my surprise, not not one person, not one person stood up. So we closed the door on the bus and we crossed the bridge to Parris Island. And I wonder this this may not be something that, you know, but you may know.

[00:21:21] I wonder if all of those gentlemen that were on that bus with you were all enlisted gentlemen or if they had if any of them had been drafted. Now that I don't know. I think, you know, it didn't make any difference once we crossed that bridge because there there was no sign on you that said draftee or enlisted. Yeah.

[00:21:51] And you were never treated one way or the other. That's good. That's good to know. So where did you complete your training? Maybe for those that don't know where Eastern Seaboard Marines go for training. Well, everyone east of the Mississippi goes to Parris Island. And that's in South Carolina. It is it is exactly what it says.

[00:22:21] It's island. And there is only one way off and one way off. And that's the bridge that goes there. There's swamp and water all around it. But at the time that I was there, there were still some very, very old barracks that were used. Some of them back and during World War Two. Wow.

[00:22:49] But there again, it was it was the training point for the Eastern Seaboard. San Diego, which we referred to as Hollywood Marines. They were on the Western Seaboard. But everyone, everyone considered, well, especially Parris Island Marines.

[00:23:17] We always considered Parris Island the best the best training station. Yeah. The Primo training. Yeah. Yeah. Was that your first time living away from home? Yes. I had.

[00:23:37] I won't say sheltered, but, you know, the longest time I'd ever been away from home up to that point was spending time with my grandparents in Asheville for, you know, a couple of weeks or a month on in the summer or something of that nature. So paint a picture for us. What did a typical day look like in in training?

[00:24:05] Well, you woke up in the morning to the sound of a trash can being thrown down between the between the bunks and the and the barracks. And a drill instructor screaming, get up, get up, get up, get up, get up. And at that time, you know, you know, you come out of the rack and you jumped up and stood at attention at the end of the rack. And then your day started. And then your day started.

[00:24:30] First thing you did naturally is everyone got dressed uniformly, green, green fatigues, black boots. And then you started. You went first thing you did is you went to breakfast. You finished breakfast and you did a three mile run. And sometimes they will reverse that. You did a three mile run in boots? In boots. Well, and later on with boots and pack.

[00:25:00] Oh, and it's it really sounds worse than it was because, you know, you're talking to being 18 years old. You're probably in the best shape of your life. That's fair. That's fair. And for most of us. And there were there were some people that weren't in as good a physical shape as they could have been. But by the time they left Parris Island, they were in pretty good shape. I bet they were three miles a day. That's that's crazy.

[00:25:29] Of course, I guess that wasn't so difficult for you since you had been a track star back at home. So you probably enjoyed being able to run again. I did. I did. In fact, I had our company, our platoon commander was a lieutenant and he had been a track star in college.

[00:25:56] And my drill instructors, they said, you know, ball, get up there and give him some competition. So I ran with him when when we did the the PT runs. Of course, now he cheated because he didn't wear a pack when we did the packs. But I made sure I stayed with him and pushed him as much as I could.

[00:26:19] But it was a it was at that point, it was still it was still kind of fun and games. I mean, it was like it was all new, but it was all challenging. And, you know, at the end, you know, you're going to be qualified as a Marine. Yeah. What was the hardest part of training for you?

[00:27:00] I think the hardest part of training was thinking, trying to put my put my mind around what the drill instructors were actually doing, because they were in a position where they they wanted to not necessarily tear you down, but they wanted to break you down and build you as a Marine,

[00:27:27] which would cause you not to hesitate if if you were given a command to charge or to take a heel to advance for any reason, that you wouldn't hesitate that you would cover your fellow Marines back on both sides

[00:27:51] and that you would do like you were told, not like you would think. Are there any specific memories from training that you want to share? Well, I think the angriest I got in boot camp was we spent we spent weeks cleaning our weapon.

[00:28:17] And I mean, to the point that it was absolutely spotless. And we fill out for inspection and the drill instructors switch platoons. And one one set of drill instructors was would come to our platoon and our drill instructors went to their platoon.

[00:28:43] And the drill instructor grabbed my weapon. And as I'm growing up as a as a young man, you know, I hunted and and fished all the time. So I knew how to clean a weapon. And I was very, very, very, very confident that my weapon was spotless, that it was immaculate. And he grabbed my weapon and he looked down at it and he said, That's the best weapon I ever seen.

[00:29:16] And, you know, I didn't question him. And he said, What have you been doing when you're supposed to be cleaning this weapon? And I said, The private was cleaning weapons, sir. And I know. Well, actually, I said recruit was cleaning weapons. And he said, This is nasty. So he threw my weapon out in the sand, which after weeks of work on it,

[00:29:41] I mean, it kind of got away with me and I flinched like it might have wanted to do him bodily harm. And my drill instructor then stepped in and kind of handled the other drill instructor. But because I flinched, because I, you know, didn't take it with a grain of sand,

[00:30:09] they gave me an opportunity to go to Motivation Platoon, which was a week of the worst thing at Parris Island. You know, you do stuff like you go up and down steep inclines with 50-cal cans of sand. And they wet those hills before you do it.

[00:30:39] So you go down it face first, you come up it, you get halfway up it, and you fall down it. And it'll come out of there caked with about an inch of mud all over you. And then you run for miles just because they can.

[00:30:59] And again, it trains you to be in control at all points, at all times. That you didn't let your, not only your imagination, but your inner feelings affect your judgment.

[00:31:27] So what did you get to do in your downtime when you were still in basic training? Did you write letters to home? And how important were those for you? Yes. We had a time that you had to write home. I mean, you had to call, you had to write mom and tell her that you were fine, you were enjoying yourself. And that was pretty well dictated. You couldn't write her and tell her, it's terrible. I don't want to come home.

[00:31:57] That didn't happen. Because if you did and they got a letter back, you suffered the consequences. But, you know, again, boot camp was more a mental thing. I mean, you had to cope with it. And when you wrote home, you didn't tell them anything was happening to you, anything that had happened to you.

[00:32:26] You just told them that you were fine, that you missed them, that you couldn't wait to get home. You told your girlfriend the same thing. You loved her, that, you know, military is the best, Marine Corps was the best thing that ever happened to you. And for the most part, you always meant it. I mean, it was something that was changing your life.

[00:32:53] You were becoming something that very few people get the opportunity to become. And, you know, you wanted your mom and dad to be proud of what you were doing, what you were becoming. You wanted your girlfriend to be proud. You wanted your friends to be proud. And so, you know, the only thing you wrote them was the uplifting stuff. Yeah.

[00:33:16] So if you weren't really able to, I guess, confide in your family and friends from back home, were there people at boot camp that you bonded with that you were kind of able to just lean on for support? Well, again, you know, there was things that you did. You know, you spit sound your boots, polished your brass,

[00:33:45] and, you know, you created – you bonded with, you know, the guy on the left, the guy on the right. If one of them was an expert boot shiner, he may give you tips or help you, you know, get your boots shined at a high-gloss shine. Same way with your brass, same way with your uniforms. When we did our uniforms and made sure we didn't have any Irish pennants, you know,

[00:34:15] we helped one another to make sure that we wouldn't get any demerits. And, you know, some guys didn't know had never made a bid. So, you know – Yeah, I can't imagine that. Yeah, well – Their mom did it their whole life. Yeah, but, you know, if he was on your left or right, you know, you give him pointers.

[00:34:40] You showed him how to do it so that, you know, a lot of times if you had someone that didn't know how to do it and the drill instructor would come to you and say, Paul, you know, why didn't you help Adams make his rack? And if you said, you know, it wasn't my part. And he said, you know, you're all brothers here. You're all – you know, you're all the same. You know, you help one another. That's what Marines do.

[00:35:11] So, it was one of those things where, you know, you watched out for your left. You watched out for your right. The guy on the top bunk, guy on the lower bunk. When you go – when we went in the Marine Corps, they took everything that you – all your girlfriend's pictures, all your – if you had any paraphernalia, necklaces, earrings,

[00:35:36] bracelets, anything that would do, would distract you. They took all that, put it in an envelope, you put an address on and sent it home. So, the only thing that you had in boot camp was boot camp. You were 100% focused on doing what the Marine Corps needed you to do. Hmm.

[00:36:02] So, after boot camp, did you go to a specialty training or were you immediately, you know, in the thick of it? No, I went to – I went to Memphis or Menlington, Tennessee, actually, to jet engine training school. And that was pretty much – although it was military, it was pretty much like going to college

[00:36:28] because you got up in the morning, you went to breakfast, then you went to class, and you were in class all day long. When class was over in the afternoon, sometimes it was three, sometimes it was four, sometimes it was five. But when class was over, then you went to the mess hall, you ate supper, then you went back to the barracks. And then you had free time, which, you know, sometimes you played basketball, sometimes you

[00:36:55] just, you know, relaxed, wrote letters, did whatever. And about how long were you in Tennessee? I was in Millington for four months. Yes. And then we had a test, and depending on how you scored on the test, depended on whether

[00:37:24] they – just like college, depended on where you graduated or where you, you know, where you went back to, you know, more classes. Right. But I liked what I was doing, and I paid attention to what, you know, what we were doing in class, and, you know, it was a rocket science, but it was, you know, it was exhilarating to do, you know, what we were doing.

[00:37:54] It was airplane science. It's close enough. Yeah. That's it. I mean, I learned things that I never knew before. Yeah. That's true. That's true. Certainly not something you'd learn in rural Catawba County. Right. But – so were you stationed anywhere else after Tennessee or immediately after training, were you? No. I went to Camp Pendleton, California.

[00:38:21] And when I was at Camp Pendleton, I went TAD to – which was temporary additional duty. I went to Puerto Rico. I went to San Luis, Mexico. And all these places were for additional training.

[00:38:46] It was for, you know, like when we were in Puerto Rico, we had aircraft that were going out. And pilots were training to do gun runs, to do, you know, rocket runs and this, that, and the other. So we were learning to pretty much do war things out there. And the pilots were learning to be warrior pilots.

[00:39:16] So you were trained on how to work on the airplanes, helicopters, and also how to pilot them throughout that time. Right. Gotcha. Gotcha. So about how long do you think it was between the time you got out of boot camp to the time that you actually received your orders to go to Vietnam? Well, I received my orders in 1971.

[00:39:50] No, 1970. After I'd come back from Camp Pendleton, I came back to New River. And at New River, it was just like an everyday job. From seven to four, you know, you worked on aircraft. You kept – the pilots flew the aircraft. They'd bring them in.

[00:40:14] You had to check them, fuel them, make sure everything was ready to go for the next morning. And it was – like I said, it was just like a regular job. Pretty much just what you were going to be doing in Vietnam. And, you know, the only difference was is that you did get to go home in the afternoon.

[00:40:37] And at that time, you know, I was – I had – I was considering getting married. Mm-hmm. And bringing her to New River. Yeah. Because I thought, you know, well, maybe – just maybe this was what I wanted to do for a living. Yeah. Because I did.

[00:41:06] I loved working on aircraft. I loved flying in aircraft. And it was a – every day was a challenge because every day you learn something new. Mm-hmm. That's the best kind of job, right? Yep. So do you remember when you found out that you were being sent to Vietnam? Do you remember like that day that you received your orders? I do.

[00:41:34] And at the time, it was a – I don't know. It was kind of a fearful day because, you know, absolutely I'd rather have gone anywhere else other than Vietnam. But at the same time, I knew guys that had gone, had come back.

[00:42:27] Different people see different things and imagine different things. But I thought, well, you know, if it's my time, you know, I'll go over there and I'll do what I got to do. And it's all in God's hands. Right. I'm sure you had heard a lot more about the war in Vietnam since you had been in service in the States than you had before you went into service.

[00:42:52] Surely also because it was ramping up more than what it had been at the time. Well, and they – you know, during this time, you know, helicopters, both Hueys and Cobras, had become a more integral part in what was becoming, you know, not just a conflict but a war.

[00:43:20] You know, but it's one of those things where when you think about it, it's like if you would – if we go to war here in the United States, you know, who would you shoot at? Because, you know, Sally over here, she looks just like you. Joe looks just like me. Well, that's the way it was in Vietnam.

[00:43:51] You know, North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese, they look exactly the same. The only difference is they might wear a different color hat. Yeah. And – Well, and you can change your hat, right? That's right. And sometimes they did. And that was the most difficult part about going to any war. But, you know, same thing in Afghanistan, Iraq, and, you know, all of those. It's the exact same thing. Right. It's like going to any war. Or, you know, how do you figure out who the enemy really is?

[00:44:21] Were you allowed to tell your family after you got your orders? Yeah. How were their reactions to hearing that you were going to Vietnam, especially since I'm sure the news coverage about the war had become more intense? Well, you know, first thing they did was, you know, it was, oh, no, you know. And, you know, please be careful. You know, will you be all right?

[00:44:51] Will you keep in touch? All the things that, you know, that people that worry about you and love you, the kinds of things that, you know, they want you to know. Because just in case they don't get to tell you. Right. They did before you left. Did you get an opportunity to say goodbye to them in person or were you? Yeah.

[00:45:14] I had a, I actually had a 10-day leave to come home before I left to go to California. And I came home. I visited my grandparents. I talked to my parents at pretty much at length. I talked to my wife at that time.

[00:45:43] And I guess her input, her fear was the most prominent. Because she said, you know, you will come back. Well, my intention was to fully come back. I'm sure she thought her willpower alone could probably bring you back. She was like that. Yeah. That's fact. That's fact.

[00:46:14] But it's a stretch of your faith to know that you're going into harm's way. And, you know, the only thing that can keep you safe is your Heavenly Father. So walk us through your first 24 hours in Vietnam.

[00:46:42] When you first arrived, what were your thoughts and feelings and just physical reactions, too? Because I've heard from other interviews and, you know, from when we've talked previously that it's a very different climate over there. It's very different. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know. But, in fact, I was talking to another Vietnam veteran. And I asked him the question. I said, well, what did you think when you got there?

[00:47:10] And he said, well, he said, you know, I normally pay big bucks to get to go to the beach and feel the sunshine and the heat. He said, I couldn't believe I was getting to go to the beach and feel the heat and everything for nothing. And it just so happened that when we landed in Da Nang, we were welcomed.

[00:47:38] They had an incoming rocket attack. And so we had to get off the aircraft and rush to cover so that the aircraft could take off again before it got hit. What a greeting. And so, you know, our first thoughts were, oh, man, is it going to be like this every day? You know. I can imagine. But we had direction.

[00:48:05] We had somebody out there telling us exactly where to go and how to get undercover and everything. So, you know, needless to say, it was exciting. I mean, it got your blood flowing real quick. Sure. Sure. And. And my first question was, the guys, it like this every day? And he said, you know, not every day. He said some days. He said some days they hit us two or three times.

[00:48:35] He said, and then other days they don't hit us at all. And I said, well, you know, I said, I guess what? I just greened and buried it. And then after everything died down, they sent us to our hooches. And I was in. They put me in a hooch with three short timers. And these guys, they were something else. What's a short timer?

[00:49:04] That's someone that's got less than 30 days to be in country. I bet they were thrilled. Well, I mean, for me being a new guy, they were awesome because, you know, each one of them had advice on how to get from this point to my short time.

[00:49:33] And they told me the things to expect, the things, you know, where to go, what to do, and to stay out of harm's way. Wow. And they said, if you hear a round go off, they say hit the deck, you know, and that's what I did. In fact, I tried to find China. Yeah.

[00:49:59] But we had one bunker, and it was about 25, 30 yards from our hooch. And one night we had incoming rockets, and I was the first one to get to the bunker. And they were out going, hey, man, look at the pretty lights. And these were rockets going over and hitting past us. But I'm in a bunker.

[00:50:28] And, again, you know, if I'd had a shovel, you know, I might have made China because I was scared. So did you stay in Da Nang the whole time, or were you assigned to a different location throughout your time in Vietnam? I moved, I knew, went 25 clicks to the north, which was Marble Mountain.

[00:50:55] And that's where, you know, I started doing the, working on the helicopters. I was a crew chief and door gunner. And, you know, we went in and out of Marble Mountain on our search and rescue missions or support missions. And that's where I spent the rest of the time that I spent in there.

[00:51:29] So describe a typical day. What were your responsibilities? And what did you do during your downtime while you were stationed in Vietnam? Well, now it's kind of hard to believe this. But the days that you worked, you worked on your helicopter. You inspected it. You made sure there was no leaks. You made sure everything was working.

[00:51:57] You made sure that the guns were all old, ready to work. You made sure the rotors were in good shape. No loose bolts, no loose nuts. And, you know, once everything was inspected, re-inspected, and re-inspected one more time, you know, then pretty much the rest of the afternoon was yours.

[00:52:23] And, you know, then you did what 18-year-old, 19-year-old boys did. You went, you played volleyball. You went swimming. You went swimming in unfamiliar waters with all kinds of snakes and critters? Well, it wasn't quite that bad. But it had been thoroughly splashed out, I'm sure. Well, that's probably true. That's probably true. Can't imagine any critters wanting to live in an active war zone.

[00:52:53] But it wasn't. Like I said, you know, being on base was not as war-bound as it sounds. But the thing of it is that you knew it was just right outside the door. Right. And you knew it could come in at any minute. Yeah.

[00:53:22] And the first, again, the first round or the first rocket that landed, then you were in hyper mode. You know, you wanted to make sure that the chopper was taken care of. You made sure that, you know, if it needed to get off the ground, that you were ready to go, that you were armed. And just like the chopper, you were armed and ready. What kind of entertainment did you have while you were over there?

[00:53:51] Did you get to go to any of the USO shows? I was fortunate. I got selected as a MP to cover when we had a USO show. So I was, I stood on the steps and made sure that none of the guys just got too hyper and wanted to get close and personal to the entertainers. So it was, it was exciting.

[00:54:21] So who all did you get to guard for then? Well, I had Bob Hope on two occasions. I had Tina Turner was there. That's awesome. The USA contestants made an appearance. The Miss USA contestants? Yeah.

[00:54:48] And, you know, you can imagine, again, you know, most of the, most of the Marines that were there, 18, 19, 20 year olds. So to see an American girl, they, you know, it took several MPs to make sure that they stayed in their seats. I can imagine. Did you ever get to meet any of the entertainers since you were kind of bodyguarding for them? I met Tina Turner. That's cool. Yeah.

[00:55:17] And she, she was awesome. She was awesome. She, you know, she thanked me, you know, for being up there. And I told her that was my job. And she said, I know, but I'm glad you're here. Man, she was young back then. She's full of energy. I'll tell you that. So were there places off base that you could visit, like bars or like a village close by or anything like that? Yeah. There was just outside the name.

[00:55:45] There was a Vietnamese village that, you know, had, they had bars and they had other places that, you know, guys visit that. And again, I was, I was fortunate there too. I got nominated for MP duty.

[00:56:14] And so I had to make sure guys didn't go to restricted areas and to make sure that, you know, when they got out there, they didn't get rowdy and tear up stuff or get in fights. And if they did, you know, we had to take them to the brig. They must have thought you were the biggest and baddest. They were like, this guy's got to be the bodyguard. No, we just, it was just luck of the draw. Yeah.

[00:56:40] You know, that's because I, I volunteered at one time to do shore patrol and shore patrol was probably the, the worst duty I ever did because you'd have to go into a bar and a brawl. And, you know, the first thing you do is pick out who's, who's involved and escort them out first.

[00:57:10] And once, nine times out of 10, you get, you get the ringleader and everything else dies down. And, uh, I was fortunate and, and cause we had one Marine and one, uh, sailor. And I was fortunate cause my partner was about, about six, four and 260 or 70 pounds.

[00:57:38] And he was, he was all man. And when we go in, he grabbed somebody up. They were grabbed up. I bet. I bet. So how difficult was it to stay in touch with your loved ones back home with your wife and your parents? Well, we were able to, you know, we were able to call home, uh, you know, once a month.

[00:58:07] Other than that, it was just letters and it took, you know, if she wrote it one week, it might get to me the next or the next. You just didn't know how long and how long the mail would take. But she did normally get most of them. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. You were able to stay in contact. What did you miss most from home? Like, what did you miss most in the States, I guess?

[00:58:37] I guess what I missed most would be, uh. Don't you say air conditioning. Well, actually, actually the weather, the weather didn't bother me that much. That's good. Because I was young. I, you know, I'd cut all the sleeves out of my shirts and, you know, and stay in the sun. If I got sweaty, I got sweaty. If I didn't, I didn't worry about it.

[00:59:06] But I think probably the, the, the, the convenience is that we take for granted. You know, the, being able to go to the refrigerator and get a glass of ice water or Coca-Cola or something like that. Well, we had drinks, but nine times out of ten, they were lukewarm. Uh, and, you know, take three or four swallows and throw it away because it just didn't have that good, cold, refreshing taste, you know. And I can't imagine not having ice water.

[00:59:36] But, uh, but that and, you know, knowing that, you know, tomorrow was going to be the same as today, uh, that there, there wasn't going to be no drastic changes unless, you know, unless the Vietnamese made a, made a striking move or something.

[00:59:57] And then, you know, and then we had the, uh, the thoughts too of the politicians doing things like if we, if we had a strong move to take a certain area and we drove in and we took it, then they'd call a, uh, uh, a peace truce.

[01:00:23] And while they, while they were discussing the peace, the Vietnamese would move right back in to where we just fought to take. And, you know, and that was, if you were smart enough to, to see what was going on, then you wondered, well, you know, what are they thinking? You know, we're taking the same area over and over and over again. But, uh.

[01:00:51] Kind of brings up that mental image of politicians from, from both countries playing with little toy soldiers. Exactly. Instead of like the conflict being with the soldiers. Right. Like real lives. Like real lives. In jeopardy. Yeah. Wow.

[01:01:08] And, uh, and, uh, and the worst part was, is that the guys that, that were the ground pounders that were actually in the, in the trenches that were, you know, bleeding and dying and everything else and losing their friends. And, and then they would come back, uh, to our base and for, you know, I'd say rest and relaxation, but it's usually to be patched up to go back out. Mm-hmm.

[01:01:36] And, you know, and for them, you know, this, this game that politicians were playing was, was no joke. I mean, you know, because again, you know, they may, they may lose half their platoon or, or whatever, trying to take a heel. They get it taken and then they give it right back to them. Mm-hmm.

[01:02:02] So when you think back on your time in Vietnam, what stories immediately come to mind? Those that you're comfortable sharing with us?

[01:02:11] Well, the worst stories were going in to, to pick up wounded Marines, uh, or, or bringing back bodies, uh, was the absolute worst because those are the ones that come back to your mind when you try to go to sleep.

[01:02:42] Uh, but, you know, there was, there was an attitude, uh, you know, we see on the movies that, you know, how some of the, some of the soldiers, the Marines and, uh, over there that, that they had real, uh, real attitudes about being there.

[01:03:11] And the only thing that I, I ever noticed was that, you know, most of their attitudes was just to try to make sure they stayed alive. Yeah.

[01:03:21] Uh, and, you know, the ones that, the ones that you really remember are the ones that, you know, you, you pick up and you're, you're trying to stop bleeding or you're trying to, uh, you're trying to give them some comfort. And you just can't think, you did, you just don't have the, what you need to do it.

[01:03:48] So the only thing you can do is get them back to base as quickly as you possibly can so that they can get to, uh, medical attention. And the other part of it is, I mean, the, the good, the good days were when you get in a helicopter and you could fly over some of the most beautiful scenery that you've ever seen.

[01:04:12] Uh, you see, uh, you see, uh, green, uh, palm trees and all kinds of, all kinds of foliage and, and stuff. And it's just, and then you see little, little people look like ants, uh, down there. And you don't know if they're good ants or bad ants. They're just, you know, they're just moving, going along their way.

[01:04:39] And those days, those days were the good days because, you know, not around is fire, not, you know, there's no, uh, there's no damage being done anywhere. Uh, it's a shame that such a beautiful landscape was subjected to such violence. Exactly. Exactly.

[01:05:00] Is there, are there any funny stories that you remember from, you know, just being with your friends that you had or anything that stands out? Like just guys goofing off when you guys were trying to get away from it all? Well, again, you know, you're talking 18, 19, 20 year olds, you know, there's, there's, there's going to be a lot of horseplay going on.

[01:05:24] Uh, and again, it, anything that could take your mind off of what was going on where we were, uh, that, you know, uh, you make fun of a guy that, you know, is, uh, talking about getting married or something like that.

[01:05:47] Uh, you know, cause you, cause you remind him what they told you in bootcamp, you know, uh, joy was home when you left. Joy was home when you left, you know, so they keep telling you that there's some guy at home taking care of your girlfriend and all this other stuff while you're over here fighting a war.

[01:06:06] Uh, and, you know, for the most part, uh, you know, the attitude and anytime that the guys would get an opportunity to, to laugh or to find something to be joyous about, you know, they took it. Cause it may last a minute.

[01:06:32] It may last an hour or it may not last a half a minute, you know, any, at any given time, something could break out. And in the back of your mind, you always have to be ready for that because the second that you're not ready and you're not prepared, you know, that could be the time that, you know, right. That you get hit. Are there any relationships that you made with guys there that, that kind of stand out to you?

[01:07:01] Did you have like a, a group of guys that you were closer to? Well, most of the guys that, that I went over with, you know, uh, we, we were kind of a click, uh, that, you know, we tried to, uh, uplift one another when we could.

[01:07:21] Um, when, you know, we had a couple of guys that were, uh, really devoted Christians and a lot of times we'd get together and we'd talk, we'd talk Christian. We'd talk, we'd talk about God. We'd talk about, uh, you know, a lot of them would say, well, if there is a real God, what are we doing here?

[01:07:46] You know, but I look at it in this respect, you know, I went over to Vietnam just like I came back and guys, guys asked me all the time. They said, well, you know, why don't you get your VA benefits? Why don't you claim this? And why don't you claim that? And I said, I claimed the only thing I want and the only thing I needed was to come back just like I went over. And I said, that's what God gave me.

[01:08:15] I said, I don't need anything else. The government don't owe me anything else. And, you know, a lot of guys, uh, did get, you know, we're, we're harmed by Agent Orange and we're harmed by other chemicals and we're harmed by, you know, by being shot and having, you know, uh, limbs taken off and this, that, and the other.

[01:08:40] And, and I agree, they deserve, they deserve to be treated well by the country. Uh, but the guys that were able to come back just because they served, we did our duty, you know, and that's, that's what we signed up for. We, we didn't sign up for any extra benefits or any hazardous duty. Uh, by the way, they, they did give me hazardous duty paid just for flying a helicopter or just for being in a helicopter.

[01:09:09] Uh, you know, so it's, uh, it's war. And if you, if, if you look at it as anything else, the more, I mean, you know, we got, we got our guys right now and, uh, Afghanistan, Israel, uh, all these other countries.

[01:09:33] And, uh, I feel for them because again, it's, it's, it's, it's the not knowing. It's the not knowing if, if there'll be another minute, you know, another hour, another day, you know, another month. Can I make it till it's time for me to go home? Yeah.

[01:09:56] And, uh, you see guys that, uh, you know, are apparently in, in, in, in no, not in harm's way in any, any means of the, uh, of your imagination. And then all of a sudden, you know, there's an explosion and, and they're laying with, uh, you know, with their muscles just spasming.

[01:10:21] Uh, and, and sometimes it bothers you. I think it's important to hear perspectives from people that, that were in the Vietnam war, just like it was for World War I and World War II veterans.

[01:10:45] Because I think a lot of younger generations today, it feels like being in the military has become more of an exclusive experience. If you know what I'm saying, like during, during World War I and World War II, you throw a rock and hit a guy that was in the military, you know?

[01:11:06] And I'd say probably the same for Korea and Vietnam, but as, as the years progressed after Vietnam, it seems like that was more, more so, um, a more common experience for young men in the country before that time period. And after, it seems to be something that not a, not a ton of people understand the experience of being at war, going to war, or being in another country at war.

[01:11:34] And, and so it's, it's hard for them to put themselves in your shoes unless you, you do share your stories. I think it's really important to hear what you have to say about it as well. Well, I think in World War I and World War II, when the country was desperate and at war, uh, that, uh, they had the draft.

[01:11:58] And if you were an able-bodied American male, uh, you know, you're going to be drafted, you're going to be called. And I think that after that, uh, you know, with, with Vietnam, I think there was more people that wanted to join. And once they were in, you know, they're, don't get me wrong.

[01:12:26] There were a lot of guys in, in the Marine Corps that were given a choice in court. You know, you can go to the Marine Corps or you can go to jail. And, and those guys came in and, and, and they had a bit of an attitude.

[01:12:42] Uh, but for the most part, everybody, everybody that I, uh, met in Vietnam, uh, I mean, yes, we had, we had some racial difficulties, difficulties, but no more than we have here. Right. Uh, and we had some, uh, you know, we had misunderstandings, uh, but no more than we have here.

[01:13:09] But, uh, again, you know, when you get into a war zone, there's a common bond that is, it's unspoken, it's unseen, uh, but it's felt. And each and every, each and every man or woman that's there becomes related.

[01:13:34] They become, they become brothers and sisters. Yeah. And they, uh, they strive to cover one another to make sure that, you know, they make it home. Absolutely. So are there any memories that you feel are important for future generations to hear?

[01:13:56] Because that's, that's who we mostly do this for, for people to be able to, to see your life and what you experienced. The only thing is, is that they live in the most beautiful, prominent country in the world. They have freedoms that they take for granted.

[01:14:20] Uh, and, you know, the only way to keep the freedoms that you have is to be ready to fight for them. And if you're not willing to fight for the freedoms that you have, you don't deserve them.

[01:14:38] And, you know, it's, uh, it may sound, it may sound hokey, but I don't know of anybody that I have ever served with that I wouldn't do it again with under the same circumstances. Yeah.

[01:15:00] And just to, uh, just to reiterate one thing, uh, about the Vietnamese, they didn't want war. Right. But they didn't want to live under tyranny either. And unfortunately, being the country that we are, not unfortunately, fortunately, being the country that we are, we're going to take care of the little people. We're going to take care of the weak.

[01:15:30] We're going to take care of them because we are who we are. We are strong. And we are dedicated to making sure that everybody has the right to freedom, even if they don't know what to do with it. So I remember you did say that you went on leave while you were in Vietnam. So what was, what was leave like during your time overseas? Well, it's like you taking a vacation to the beach.

[01:16:01] I mean, if you have four days, if you have 10 days or whatever, that you don't have to worry about somebody shooting at you, that you don't have to worry about being on call to get in the helicopter and go flying over someplace where somebody will shoot at you.

[01:16:24] But it's real similar to getting that vacation where you just go lay in the sun, lay on the beach, meet new and different people, people that don't hate you, and being able to tell the difference. Yeah.

[01:16:45] You know, in Vietnam, you take a vacation to Vietnam, and you don't know if you're speaking to a North Vietnamese or a South Vietnamese, and if you turn your back, you know, you're going to get stabbed or something. Right. But that's what vacation was like. It was just a relief. Where did you get to go when you went on leave? Well, actually, I went to a couple of different places.

[01:17:09] I went to Okinawa, and I spent time in five days in Okinawa, and I went to the Philippines, and I spent five days in the Philippines. And again, there's places I'd never been before.

[01:17:34] And by the time I learned how to get along and how to kind of navigate where to go and what to do, it's time to come back. But again, just like vacation, you know. Do you have any specific memories from your time on leave that you want to share? Just one. There's several guys.

[01:18:03] We were out shopping. We were going to get some souvenirs and, you know, stuff. And we went in this little department store, and there was four or five little Filipino guys in there. And most of the guys that were with me were smaller than I was, and they were finding shirts and shorts and stuff that's in their size.

[01:18:30] And I couldn't find anything, so I got one of the little clerks. And when I told him I wanted a shirt, I mean, it was like, and they were running around looking everywhere to find a shirt. And when they found one, it was the most ugly shirt I had ever seen in my life. But I didn't want to hurt their feelings, so I bought it anyway. And I wore it.

[01:18:58] And one of the guys asked me, they said, Jim, where did you get that ugly shirt? I said, this little Filipino guy was twisting my arm and told me to buy it. And I said I had to have it. But to see him jump stumps just to try to please me was just absolutely hilarious.

[01:19:25] What was it like returning to Vietnam after having been on leave for that time? It was like, hey, Paulette, take a left turn into Albuquerque, would you? Let's don't go back there. But again, we were all brothers. We were all sisters.

[01:19:47] And when you're away, when you're on leave, just like when they're on leave, they enjoy that time. But they worry the whole time that they're there, what's going on there, what's going on in Vietnam. And everybody's always concerned about is so-and-so still alive? Is so-and-so, are they okay?

[01:20:15] And when you get back, the first thing you start doing is doing your list check, making sure all your friends, making sure all your really close friends or whatever are all okay. And the short timers, you make sure that they're protected so that they make it to go home. I've never thought about it like that before.

[01:20:45] So tell me about coming home. Tell me about when you found out you were going to get to come home and how that happened. Oh, you know when you're due to come home because you've got a calendar up there and you're marking big old edges as the days dwindle down to when you're supposed to go home. How long did you spend in total in country in Vietnam? Seven months. Seven months.

[01:21:12] And on the six-month ending 15 days, I started marking my calendar. And I thought, okay, 15 more days, 15 more days. It was the longest 15 days I ever spent in my life. Yeah, I imagine. And when the time came, it was just like it was when they sent me over. Here's your orders.

[01:21:42] And they said, all right, here's your orders. Be on the C-130 at Da Nang. And I went down. Fortunately, we didn't have any incoming or anything going on. So we got on the C-130. We flew to Okinawa. And we got on a flight. I can't remember if it's Delta or Continental.

[01:22:11] But we got on a flight there and flew to Hawaii. And then we flew from Hawaii to California. California. And I put my feet on U.S. soil. And I thought, whew, this is as close to home as I'm going to get. And we reported in at Camp Pendleton.

[01:22:39] And they said we had to do a week of interviews to make sure that we were okay.

[01:22:54] And they, you know, we talked to doctors and we talked to, you know, military people that wanted to make sure we weren't going to go to a newspaper and start telling tales that, you know, may or may not have been true. Were you allowed to tell your family before you came home? Or were they aware of when you were supposed to ship back home anyway? I told them when I got to California. Gotcha.

[01:23:24] So they had no idea when you were coming home? No. Well, I mean, they did have a happy surprise. Well, when, you know, I wrote in letters that I'd be home the end of, you know, the end of the month. And it was, you know, everybody was looking forward to when I'd get home. And I told them, I said, it's not locked in. You know, I'll call you when I get, when I put my feet on the ground. And. Did you have a baby already by that point?

[01:23:53] I did. Must have been really exciting to get to come home to him. Well, I'd gotten pictures and watched him grow in pictures, but it's not the same as being there. Yeah. What do you remember about saying goodbye to some of the guys that you were serving with in Vietnam? It was an emotional thing.

[01:24:23] I mean. You know, some of them had. Not been in a country long. Some of them were becoming short timers. There were friendships that will last a lifetime.

[01:24:53] And, you know, to know that we experienced and shared something that not everyone is allowed to do.

[01:25:07] And so we just huddled and prayed for one another and left hoping that everybody left is on their own feet, on their own strength. And I can go home safely.

[01:25:41] So when you got back to California, who greeted you? Did your family, you know, after your week of interviews, did they get to come out there to you or did you have to find your way back home? No, no. We got orders. I came back to New River. And then at New River, I was given. Well, actually, I came back to New River to report because that was going to be my new duty station.

[01:26:08] And when I got there, I got a 30-day leave to go home. And so I went home. And I told everybody. And the only ugly part about it was when I came in at the airport. When I came in, actually, when I came in at the airport in California,

[01:26:40] there was four of us going through the airport at the same time. And I was in front. And there was a bunch of, and I don't know what they are. We called them skinheads. But they were overseeing and acting foolish. And when we came by, they started spitting at us.

[01:27:04] And my first impulse was to go to Fish City with them and just beat the crap out of them. And the guys grabbed me and said, no, Jim, no, no, they're not with us spending the night in jail. And I've never been so happy to have friends that were watching my back.

[01:27:33] But I've heard stories since then about, you know, different groups not giving Vietnam veterans, you know, their due.

[01:27:49] And I think if they knew what I knew, if they knew what dedication, what support, what love all these people that was there had for this country

[01:28:12] so that they would have the right to do what they were doing, whether it was spit on us, whether it was throw rocks at us, whether it was to do whatever. You know, that's what we were in Vietnam for. We were fighting for their right to do that. When you got back home, did you feel like the same person who had left? No.

[01:28:40] I tried to be, but I left something over there that I'll never get back.

[01:29:04] Just the fact that my Heavenly Father brought me back in one piece and sound mind and upright. It's more than I can ask for because there's a lot that didn't have that opportunity. So when you got back home, what were some of the hardest adjustments to make back to civilian life?

[01:29:35] Really good question. Well, I guess the first is hearing people speak my own language and just understanding what was going on around me.

[01:30:00] But one of the questions that the doctors ask is, you know, what do you expect?

[01:30:14] And my only expectation was feeling my wife's and my son's arms around me and knowing that they were safe, knowing that I had done what I was supposed to do.

[01:30:36] And then the rest of it just kind of fell in place, you know, because our lifestyles dictate, you know, we have to pay the bills. We have to have a roof over your head. You have to have a job.

[01:31:04] And I was fortunate in that and that my brother-in-law had already secured a job for me. And, you know, and those people didn't know who I was or where I'd been or what I'd done. And so it was just like you walking in off of a street and applying for a job.

[01:31:31] And it just continued and continued from there. Did you ever get to use the GI Bill that kind of sent you to the military the first place? I did.

[01:31:44] I went to CVCC at night and got my bachelor's degree and then continued and got my associate's degree.

[01:32:04] And I went to their online campus at Gardner-Webb and got my bachelor's degree in business administration. And it wasn't what I wanted. I still wanted to be an architect. But, you know, I felt like that would come in time if that's what God meant for me to do. It's hard when you come back to a family that's got to be raised, you know.

[01:32:30] It's hard to go back and start from where you could have started, you know, before that. Kind of like a break in your life, right? Like a little pause on real world. Well, it's like missing the baby time, all the growing pains or the growing experiences.

[01:32:57] Because Mitch was already running and walking and talking. And he had stopped. He just, you know. He was already aggravating by the time you got back. Yeah. Well, it was – he had a problem. He had a problem figuring out who I was because he had never seen me before.

[01:33:25] And nobody had been in bed with his mama before except him. And he couldn't – he used to get out of his bed and he'd come in and just stand right in my face and just look at me.

[01:33:40] And I got – I got worried that when I felt his breath or whatever that I might wake up with a start and hurt him. And so I started sleeping over against the wall. His mom slept out on the edge of the bed. And so he'd just come – he'd just come and watch us.

[01:34:09] And then after I'd been home a while, I'd get home at 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning. And I'd sit down on the couch and I'd hear these little feet. And he'd come out there and sit on the couch with me until whatever time in the morning. Sometimes we'd see daylight. Sometimes it'd be breakfast time, whatever. But then if I went to bed, he'd be right behind me and he'd get in the bed with me and he'd go back to sleep.

[01:34:39] Your shadow. Yep. He was for a long, long, long time. And actually, he is kind of my shadow now. Were you able to stay connected with any of the people that you served with after you got out of service? Actually, I did for a period of time. But as time went on, everyone had their own agendas, their own lives.

[01:35:09] We did have several get-togethers. And, you know, it started out with, you know, a pretty good group. There's 18 or 20 of us. Then it dwindled down to about 15, then 10. And then the guys, you know, would say, well, you know, I've got a prior engagement. I can't make it, but you guys, you know, you guys lift toast to me.

[01:35:39] And we're just kind of doing it away from one another. Well, you know, that's how it is with young friends a lot of times, too. You know, the older you get, the families you raise, it pulls you apart. Right. And, you know, when you go in different directions, sometimes some of the guys were from up north. Right. Some of the guys were from, you know, Louisiana. Some of them were from Texas. Some of them were from Michigan.

[01:36:09] So, you know, when you start your lives there, a lot of times it's not the most convenient way to get together anywhere. It's true. So, when you look back on your military service today as a whole, what does it mean to you? Well, needless to say, just like the motto is, once a Marine, always a Marine.

[01:36:33] And I'm proud what the Marines stand for. I'm proud to be a Marine. In fact, this afternoon I was talking to another Marine. And one of the things that we were talking about were, you know, what we learned becoming a Marine, how it stayed with us.

[01:37:00] For example, military alignment, our buttons, our belts, our belt buckles, everything aligning every time we get dressed. And I hadn't even thought about it until he said that. And I thought about, well, when I put on my suit, I always make sure my buttons, I make sure, first of all, that there's no Irish pinnets on the suit whatsoever. And then my buttons are military aligned in a straight fashion.

[01:37:25] If I've got anything, any jewelry or embroidery or anything on my collars or anything that they're perfectly straight, it's just things that you carry with you that you learned and you didn't realize you learned it. But, yeah, I'm proud to be a Marine.

[01:37:46] And I hope that, you know, everyone that joins the Marine Corps has the same feeling when they get out. So to kind of wrap us up here, what do you hope that people will remember from your story when they listen to it? Well, I guess first and foremost, if I just remember one thing, that freedom is not free.

[01:38:16] We've got to do our part. You may not join the Marine Corps or the Navy or the Air Force or the Army, but whatever part you've got to play, everybody's got to give their part. They've got to support our armed forces. They've just got to support the country, their leaders. They're not always right, but they're just individuals.

[01:38:46] They make mistakes just like we do. And they've got to understand that we are a nation under God. And we're, you know, the only way we can stay a free nation is to support one another and support our country. Thank you so much for being here with me today and sharing your story with our community.

[01:39:15] And I just really appreciate you doing this with us. It's my pleasure.

[01:39:20] Thank you.