[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The MESH.
[00:00:07] Leadership GPS, insightful conversations about leadership and what it takes to be successful in today's rapidly changing organizations.
[00:00:17] Hello everyone and welcome to Leadership GPS here on TheMesh.tv. We're back. It's been a little while. Dad, how are you doing? It's good to see you.
[00:00:29] We haven't seen each other for months, even though we see each other not every day. We haven't actually talked in this kind of podcast environment for a really long time.
[00:00:38] Thanks for clarifying that because you are my son.
[00:00:40] We do see each other a little bit more often than what we record. It has been a while since we got around the studio booth here to do a little recording of the show here.
[00:00:48] I'm doing fine. You actually get started back on this.
[00:00:51] We're treating this as almost a season two. The idea is that even though all the other episodes we've recorded are still there, they're available on iTunes, they're available on Stitcher Radio or the MESH.tv website.
[00:01:03] We're kicking off some new episodes and new discussions over the coming months as we dig back into the idea of leadership and what it means for those of you listening, how to either strengthen your role as a leader, how to look at better leadership models for an organization or yourself.
[00:01:18] Dad, we've always taken with this that you and I are from two different generations with regards to leadership. We both have some different takes on how leadership affects individuals in the workplace.
[00:01:30] But you, really kind of a master here. You've been working with leadership organizations on the leadership side for many years and not only helping organizations strengthen their leadership team but also working individually with people to help craft them
[00:01:43] rolling from what kind of a manager role into those that you consider true leadership role.
[00:01:48] Yeah, it's about movement from management into leadership because it's a totally different field but leaders are unique people and people that hold in high regard when they're true leaders and do things in a leader-like fashion.
[00:02:03] All right. Well, what we're going to do is each episode we get together, we kind of take a topic and we just talk it out. We kind of give some examples and stories of our own as well.
[00:02:12] And of course, we always encourage our listeners to provide us with any feedback, any questions, any comments on any of the episodes we record.
[00:02:19] We'd love to hear from you and there's a lot of different ways to do that that we'll explain later on in the show.
[00:02:24] Before we get started though, I do want to kind of call your attention to something that has nothing to do with leadership but I think it's going to be a great thing that we're all being involved with here at the MESH.
[00:02:32] Coming up October 13th through the 19th of 2014, we have the Greater Hickory Kia Classic that is happening here in Conover, North Carolina, which is just down the road from where we're recording at the moment, the studio recording here.
[00:02:46] The Greater Hickory Kia Classic is just a really nationally renowned golf tournament that happens in our area. It takes place at Rockbar and Golf and Spa in Conover.
[00:02:55] You can get your tickets and information about the tournament at greaterhickorykiaclassic.com. It's exactly like it sounds, all one word, greaterhickorykiaclassic.com.
[00:03:07] That's where you can get all your information, get some tickets, and I'm kind of extending the invitation like I have on a couple other shows.
[00:03:13] If you're making your way into the Contava County Conover Hickory area for this tournament in October, drop us a line and let us know.
[00:03:21] We'd love to have you come drop by and say hi here at the MESH studios or just get to listen and meet some of our listeners out there around the nation.
[00:03:30] This is a big tournament. We're really excited to be a partner with the Greater Hickory Kia Classic this year as we have been the last couple of years.
[00:03:37] It really is a showcase tournament for our area. Dad, I don't think you've been out to the tournament since you've been there.
[00:03:42] I'm not a familiar with it.
[00:03:43] I'm not a familiar with it.
[00:03:44] This is a great classic. I think it's a seniors tournament. Is that right?
[00:03:47] That's correct.
[00:03:48] Right.
[00:03:49] It's a great turnout. We have people coming in from everywhere and we have in Hickory just so you know, a great suite of hotels and nice classy and state-of-the-art hotels as well.
[00:03:59] And we can accommodate people coming in from the long distances and no problem at all.
[00:04:03] And close to the Charlotte airport even for people who are flying.
[00:04:07] But just the people who put this on, not them because it's sponsored by Kia Automobiles and everything, but the Greater Hickory Tournament Association,
[00:04:17] they use it, put it together and the team that runs this thing does a magnificent job.
[00:04:21] Absolutely.
[00:04:22] They're just on top of every detail and they get rave reviews every time, not only from the golfers, but from people who attend the golf classic themselves.
[00:04:29] Absolutely. I cannot agree more.
[00:04:31] So there you go, GreaterHickoryKiaClassic.com is where you want to go to get more information on that.
[00:04:36] So Dad, let's get into our topic here, our first episode back in quite a while.
[00:04:40] Let's talk about the topic you brought up which I think sounds really interesting and anxious to get into the discussion about it.
[00:04:46] The idea of shaping a corporate culture.
[00:04:48] That's what you said you wanted to talk about a little bit.
[00:04:50] So what did you have in mind with this? Where do you want to go with this conversation?
[00:04:54] Well, let me tell you why I even brought up the topic is crafting cultures.
[00:04:58] You know, crafting to me is a workmanship process, you know.
[00:05:02] And it's something that usually doesn't happen with cultures, but the culture thing is something that's coming out in the last, what, 15 years maybe?
[00:05:09] It's kind of become a venue of a lot of management circles and organizations.
[00:05:14] I'm not sure we've done a great job of helping people define or shape their cultures.
[00:05:20] What we basically have led people to over the years is simply saying the definition of a corporate culture is well, that's just the way we do things.
[00:05:27] It's kind of like it evolved naturally and organically over time and they're like, well, okay, I guess that's, it is what it is.
[00:05:34] A phrase I detest by the way, it is what it is.
[00:05:37] It sounds like we have no role in making something happen, we just take it as it is.
[00:05:41] That's not what our corporate culture is about.
[00:05:44] But corporate culture has an awful lot to do with how leaders lead, it's how people do business with your organization or not.
[00:05:50] It's what they know about you, what they value about you, we'll get into more about that in a moment.
[00:05:54] But I have to tell you there's two things that happen lately.
[00:05:59] In one of them you probably won't like, you know, I'm your dad, you probably won't like this Alan, but there's two things that happened to me recently that made me focus on how we get to do what we do naturally.
[00:06:11] Routinely within an organization setting and how things evolve over time.
[00:06:15] Kind of the rules that we all play by.
[00:06:18] One of which is working with one of my client hospitals I work with and do individual consultation with, the word culture and building a culture is bantered around an awful lot.
[00:06:28] And I asked that CEO and his team one day, I said, so what is your culture?
[00:06:32] Define your culture for me.
[00:06:34] And out of the six people around that table, all VP level or CEO had six different interpretations with their culture.
[00:06:40] I said, so you basically don't know what your culture is?
[00:06:43] Well, I guess we don't.
[00:06:44] So how can you tout it?
[00:06:45] How can you sell your culture?
[00:06:47] How can you use it as a magnet for attracting great staff and customers if you don't know what it is?
[00:06:52] Good point.
[00:06:53] The other thing, this is part you won't like, there's a program on one of the TV channels now called, you probably know it better than me, but Orange is a New Black?
[00:07:01] Yes.
[00:07:02] Okay.
[00:07:03] It's about a women's prison and a real experience of a prison or type of thing.
[00:07:07] I'm fairly familiar with the show.
[00:07:09] And I know that you expect me to close my ears during part of that.
[00:07:13] Blinders on my eyes.
[00:07:14] I just know it's one of those things when you guys asked about it and said, is this a show we should be watching?
[00:07:19] And my response was, well, I don't know about that.
[00:07:22] But I understand.
[00:07:23] I don't know.
[00:07:24] To the side.
[00:07:25] I remember you to the side.
[00:07:26] You said, dad, you'd really like it.
[00:07:28] I did take it.
[00:07:29] You are enjoying it or have enjoyed it.
[00:07:31] I guess you've already watched it all right.
[00:07:32] We just started season two.
[00:07:33] Okay.
[00:07:34] We're catching up things and we had some marathon watchings and all that.
[00:07:37] Yeah, there are certain points that I really, really like and others that I kind of win set.
[00:07:42] Okay.
[00:07:43] Right.
[00:07:44] But what happened lately?
[00:07:46] Yeah.
[00:07:47] I saw the culture of the prison, women's prison that's featured there shift as well as the culture of the person who's the primary.
[00:07:57] The primary focal point of this whole story.
[00:07:59] Yes.
[00:08:00] What's her name again?
[00:08:01] Piper.
[00:08:02] Piper.
[00:08:03] Yes, that's right.
[00:08:04] I know you're talking about.
[00:08:05] Yeah.
[00:08:06] In the first season, second season and the pivotal point for Piper changing her own who she is came about because she just let it fly and beat up one of the other inmates.
[00:08:14] Right.
[00:08:15] And the season stopped there and started back and totally changing her.
[00:08:18] Yes.
[00:08:19] But I started looking at that and saying, you know what?
[00:08:21] This prison has its own way of operating.
[00:08:23] It has absolutely nothing to do with how the warden thinks it ought to operate.
[00:08:27] Mm-hmm.
[00:08:28] Two different spheres.
[00:08:29] The inmates themselves craft out how we do things, what we're successful with, how we make things work for us and our benefit, you know?
[00:08:37] And they get known for that.
[00:08:39] Right.
[00:08:40] You know, and you introduce new characters and how they assimilate into that culture, who tells them what ropes to play by, who's watched out for and all that sort of stuff.
[00:08:47] All that is simply saying how do we communicate our culture to new people.
[00:08:50] Right.
[00:08:51] Wow.
[00:08:52] What happened?
[00:08:53] Well, you're exactly right.
[00:08:54] That's, and I think that's one of the things I really am fascinated by the show with is that idea of the hierarchy that's set up.
[00:09:01] Certain people are in power.
[00:09:03] Certain people are not.
[00:09:04] Yep.
[00:09:05] You know, these people control these elements.
[00:09:06] These people are just have to report to those other elements.
[00:09:10] And it all is dictated to some degree, which also changes in season two.
[00:09:14] You've gotten to this point where they bring in some different personnel to help run the prison and the culture changes.
[00:09:20] Well, I'm not telling you where, but I'm just saying that at some point there are some further changes and it seeing the impact it has on all the inmates,
[00:09:29] the overall culture changes again.
[00:09:31] So it's really interesting.
[00:09:32] Well, that's a great point to make because one of the things that we do know about culture, despite what some people tend to think,
[00:09:38] culture is crafted out from the top down, not from the bottom up.
[00:09:43] Right.
[00:09:44] The bottom up philosophy basically assumes, well, we happen to be a byproduct of this culture is a byproduct of whoever happens to be working here and whatever they do in their jobs and how they do it.
[00:09:55] That's not that way.
[00:09:56] The true corporate cultures that you set out that are crafted rather than just evolved.
[00:10:02] Somebody has said, this is what we want to be.
[00:10:05] And this is what we're being known for.
[00:10:06] And this is how we want to see ourselves.
[00:10:08] You know, and now how do we paint that picture?
[00:10:10] How do we put it together?
[00:10:11] How do we hardware those things that we do day to day and new employees with and that type of thing all the way through that basically say we're going to keep it that way.
[00:10:21] We're going to grow it that way.
[00:10:23] You know, some people do that by seizing on a logo and our mission statement or vision statement and then really touting that and so on so forth and cascade it through the organization.
[00:10:33] Others I think they sometimes they just simply get fed up and frustrated.
[00:10:37] I give a little story.
[00:10:38] One of the hospitals that we work with in Wisconsin, a great hospital.
[00:10:41] It's a small hospital, but they radically shifted their culture to one of get by maintain day to day due to the necessary.
[00:10:51] And run a hospital to one of excellence to one of drive change become high profile.
[00:10:57] Those types of things.
[00:10:58] And the reason they got into that was because the four senior officers were traveling to a conference one time in Chicago and the car and things were not going with the hospital.
[00:11:07] And somebody said, you know what?
[00:11:08] I'm tired of things being the way they are.
[00:11:11] So their catapult for change was frustration and aggravation.
[00:11:15] You know, and there's some logic to that.
[00:11:18] I talked about the change theory in just a few minutes as it relates to organizational culture.
[00:11:22] That's one of the driving impetus for change sometimes is that we do nothing until it's bad enough until we have to do something to get it off dead center.
[00:11:31] And for them, that was it.
[00:11:32] That was a kickstart, you know, and they came back and said, we're tired of this.
[00:11:35] It's not going to be that way anymore.
[00:11:37] What do we want to be like?
[00:11:38] And where we work and that cascading that whole thing.
[00:11:42] You would hate to think that it takes a moment of just pure frustration like that to reshape an organization, but sometimes I take it.
[00:11:49] That's what needed, I guess.
[00:11:50] Well, and that's one of three ways that people get ready to shift anything or change anything.
[00:11:55] And it relates to people and it relates to corporations.
[00:11:57] It relates to cultures, whatever.
[00:11:59] One of which is out of frustration with where we are.
[00:12:01] We do nothing until it gets bad enough.
[00:12:03] We don't like it anymore.
[00:12:04] Okay.
[00:12:05] That's where a person who decides to lose weight looks in the mirror has lived their weight for years.
[00:12:11] Whatever for years and years and years, looks in the mirror all of a sudden they simply, you know what?
[00:12:14] I don't like this anymore.
[00:12:15] I'm tired of this.
[00:12:16] I'm tired of this.
[00:12:17] You know, I'm physically tired.
[00:12:18] I don't feel good and I don't look good.
[00:12:20] Darn it.
[00:12:21] I'm going to change this.
[00:12:22] Right.
[00:12:23] The catalysts for change and that's the same reason.
[00:12:24] But there are the two ways that people get ready for change.
[00:12:27] Excuse me.
[00:12:28] One of which other than just do nothing until things get bad enough changed.
[00:12:32] Another is that fear is generated.
[00:12:35] Fear if we don't change something worse will happen.
[00:12:38] So that's being a little more predictive.
[00:12:40] But from a pessimistic standpoint, if we don't do anything now, even though things may not be horrible right now, if we don't do something now there's a good chance in the future it will get bad.
[00:12:50] You put it in the corporate sense.
[00:12:51] You know, hospitals or non-healthcare organization doesn't matter.
[00:12:54] Somebody looks at their landscape and said, you know what?
[00:12:57] We don't change the way we do business, the way we are as a company.
[00:13:00] We won't exist in another three years.
[00:13:03] Sure.
[00:13:04] So that fear of not existing down the road or falling back in the pack of competitors or whatever it may be is enough to drive change.
[00:13:15] Kind of a local situation sometimes.
[00:13:17] Lowe's hardware stores.
[00:13:20] Lowe's, honestly and I don't think they have my mind saying this years ago, many years ago, going to shop at Lowe's was a frustrating experience.
[00:13:28] Okay.
[00:13:29] So it was a non-friendly to customers.
[00:13:31] You had to beg for attention almost, you get confusing pricing and everything else and just to really stand off of an approach to customers.
[00:13:38] But that's because they had the market.
[00:13:40] Then something called Home Depot came on the marketplace and others started coming up.
[00:13:45] And somewhere along the line, somebody in corporate headquarters at North Wilkes-Barre, North Carolina said, it's not going to be that way anymore.
[00:13:52] Right.
[00:13:53] So it's a radical transformation into a great company that is very customer centered and focused on needs of the customers and that type of thing.
[00:14:00] From the inventories to the customer sales, how they're handled and to their promotions and everything else.
[00:14:06] So that's an example of, I don't recall Lowe's ever being on the verge of bankruptcy or anything, but they were probably looking at that landscape like you were saying.
[00:14:14] And saying, hey, you know what?
[00:14:15] There's other guys out there that are doing this better than we are right now.
[00:14:18] If we don't change, we could be obsolete in a number of years.
[00:14:21] That's exactly right.
[00:14:22] The third way is probably the best way to get people ready to shift something or change something.
[00:14:26] And that is you create a more positive, a hopeful picture of what we can be.
[00:14:31] How much better would it be if we do such and such?
[00:14:33] And that's the desirable one but it's also the most difficult to achieve.
[00:14:38] The other two work amazingly well.
[00:14:40] I remember my grandfather when I was growing up as a small boy and I did something he didn't like one day in about many days, I'm sure.
[00:14:47] And this was back when he was about 90 years old, maybe I don't know.
[00:14:51] He's a tough guy, he really was.
[00:14:53] And I think I had a BD gun and I shot at something and I wasn't supposed to shoot at it.
[00:14:57] Anyway, he just really jumped all over me.
[00:14:59] And he said, shook his finger at me, I can still see him.
[00:15:03] And his jowls were flapping and his fingers pointing at me and all that.
[00:15:06] And he said, what you kids need today is a good depression to go through to teach you some values.
[00:15:10] Wow.
[00:15:11] You know, well first of all, I struggled with defining a good depression.
[00:15:14] I don't know what that could be.
[00:15:15] I'm not sure what that would look like.
[00:15:18] But there it's got to be an easier way to develop core values than hurting enough and getting punched enough to do it.
[00:15:25] Right.
[00:15:26] Go through a good depression, suffer enough Tony, then you'll learn your lesson.
[00:15:29] They will figure it out.
[00:15:30] We've had that for a long time.
[00:15:31] But how much better would it have been to talk about a more posy picture?
[00:15:35] You know, well I shouldn't be doing the things I was doing.
[00:15:37] You know, how much better it is to shoot at a defined target and develop my marketing skills or whatever it might be.
[00:15:42] More that painting picture in my mind.
[00:15:44] Well I'm sure, absolutely.
[00:15:45] Well, so basically even though there are a lot of different variations of ways you could get spurred along to look at re-evaluating and resetting your corporate culture.
[00:15:54] Obviously you want to do it as more of a positive thing.
[00:15:57] This is how we can get stronger.
[00:15:59] This is how we can get better.
[00:16:00] Look at what we can be.
[00:16:01] Look at where we can be.
[00:16:02] And then you set your strategy.
[00:16:03] Okay.
[00:16:04] But you create a sense of urgency by doing that.
[00:16:06] You create a sense of meaningfulness.
[00:16:08] Right.
[00:16:09] You create a sense of positivism and hopefulness.
[00:16:11] You know, this is where we want to be.
[00:16:13] This is a great picture.
[00:16:14] Look at this.
[00:16:15] You want to be on board with that?
[00:16:16] Here's what we got to do.
[00:16:17] And that starts the wheels turning when you shift a culture.
[00:16:19] Okay.
[00:16:20] But it has to start from something.
[00:16:22] Sure.
[00:16:23] One of those three points will work.
[00:16:24] You know, it depends on which one you want to travel down the road of.
[00:16:27] Okay.
[00:16:28] Now let me just ask you a question.
[00:16:29] Sure.
[00:16:30] Should have done this first thing.
[00:16:31] Well I mentioned corporate culture.
[00:16:32] How would you define it?
[00:16:33] What is corporate culture to you?
[00:16:35] I guess that would define corporate culture as the general feel you get within an organization
[00:16:41] of what's being important in place is high value and what items or things or processes
[00:16:47] are not as valued.
[00:16:49] So it's knowing that if customer service is really important part of the corporate
[00:16:53] the culture of the organization, you can sense that just in your encounters with
[00:16:57] people.
[00:16:58] You can sense that with the messaging that's going on across the organization, all that.
[00:17:02] And I have a combination of all that is how I would see it.
[00:17:05] Okay.
[00:17:06] Well you're about as specific as most people are in articles and everything else because
[00:17:09] definitions, I think have some core elements to it.
[00:17:11] Okay.
[00:17:12] I'm going to read you two of them that I've read just recently.
[00:17:14] Sure.
[00:17:15] And they have some similarities but it's kind of like a best guess.
[00:17:18] Here's one.
[00:17:19] This article defined corporate culture as the beliefs and behaviors that determine how
[00:17:24] a company's employees and management interact and handle outside business transaction.
[00:17:29] Okay.
[00:17:30] Just holding that thought.
[00:17:31] Okay.
[00:17:32] And here's another one, different organization article.
[00:17:35] Organizational culture is the behavior of humans within an organizational structure
[00:17:39] and the meaning that people attach to those behaviors.
[00:17:42] Okay.
[00:17:43] A little bit of threads of still what we do by whom associated with this organization,
[00:17:47] right?
[00:17:48] It's still very people focused.
[00:17:49] In other words how we talk to each other, how we interact with one another.
[00:17:52] And both of them get pretty close on their next sentence after each one.
[00:17:55] Going back to the first definition they follow that up by saying often corporate
[00:17:59] is implied not expressly defined and to develop organically over time from the
[00:18:05] cumulative traits of the people the company hires.
[00:18:09] In other words we become who we are.
[00:18:14] And I don't like that part.
[00:18:16] They're arguing that it starts at the hiring practice.
[00:18:18] As long as you hire the right people those people form your culture.
[00:18:21] I'm not even saying that they're saying how the right people,
[00:18:24] use who or you hire makes that a problem.
[00:18:27] I argue that if you went on hired a bunch of really bad employees then you're
[00:18:31] building a culture of poor performance.
[00:18:34] Or put it more in day to day language that we see happening every day,
[00:18:37] negative people.
[00:18:38] Right.
[00:18:39] If you just have a vacant slot of an employee and you have to fill that with a warm body
[00:18:43] and you get negative people and you get enough of them to create critical mass
[00:18:47] to change that culture your culture becomes known as a negative environment.
[00:18:51] Right.
[00:18:52] Okay.
[00:18:53] So I agree with you.
[00:18:54] I agree with you.
[00:18:55] I agree with you.
[00:18:56] Because we are just defaulted and hired wrong people.
[00:18:58] I agree.
[00:18:59] I don't care for that definition because it makes it sound like it's all
[00:19:02] just depending on whatever people you bring on board, which isn't always fair.
[00:19:05] Now the other second sentence to the other definition I read a moment ago.
[00:19:09] That definition was organizational culture is a behavior of humans within
[00:19:13] the organization and the meaning that people attach to those behaviors.
[00:19:16] Then it says culture includes the organization's vision, values,
[00:19:20] norms which is expected behaviors.
[00:19:23] systems, symbols, language, assumptions, beliefs and habits.
[00:19:28] There's everything that represents us.
[00:19:30] What we do, how we look, how we portray ourselves,
[00:19:33] all those things is how people are gonna define our culture.
[00:19:37] So let me get closer to the truth sometime.
[00:19:40] But my point of contention, Alan,
[00:19:42] with this whole thing about cultures,
[00:19:44] is there's so many cultures that evolve
[00:19:47] when nobody pulling the reins and steering the ship.
[00:19:51] It evolves by happenstance.
[00:19:53] It's like that one about hiring the wrong people,
[00:19:55] the right people.
[00:19:56] It's like okay, did we get lucky or not?
[00:20:00] I don't think crafting a culture is a matter of luck.
[00:20:03] Crafting a culture is a matter of strategy and design.
[00:20:06] Basically it starts with somebody saying
[00:20:08] how do we wanna look?
[00:20:08] How do we wanna be?
[00:20:10] How do we want people to find us and know us for?
[00:20:13] I might say well, I want the Jackson Group to be known
[00:20:16] as a great place to work.
[00:20:17] Everybody's gonna say well yeah, me too.
[00:20:19] But in Pillar put some wheels under that
[00:20:21] and say what does that mean to me?
[00:20:22] Put some pictures to it.
[00:20:25] And then I have to back it up and say well,
[00:20:26] so how do we hardwire those things
[00:20:28] into what we do every day so it becomes our culture?
[00:20:32] Well I was gonna say it's not enough
[00:20:33] to just paint the picture and say okay,
[00:20:34] that's who we're gonna be.
[00:20:35] If your processes, your services,
[00:20:38] your customer service, your training don't fit those,
[00:20:41] then you're never gonna get there.
[00:20:43] I read a quote the other day
[00:20:44] and I thought it seemed to sum it up in a part.
[00:20:46] Anyway it says all positive corporate cultures
[00:20:50] are intentional.
[00:20:53] Intentional, meaning somebody wanted it to happen that way.
[00:20:55] Somebody designed for it to happen that way
[00:20:57] and made it happen.
[00:20:57] Why do we know Disney to be the company that Disney is?
[00:21:01] We call somebody had a vision that said
[00:21:03] that's what it's gonna be.
[00:21:04] It's gonna be a happy place.
[00:21:06] It's gonna be a fun place.
[00:21:07] That's why you hear the models with them
[00:21:08] about the consistent training,
[00:21:09] the kind of imprinting that culture
[00:21:12] into their employees the minute they get hired.
[00:21:15] It has to happen top down,
[00:21:17] it has to be very intentional.
[00:21:18] Take one of our favorite companies here
[00:21:20] and that's Apple Corporation.
[00:21:21] Steve Jobs had the vision
[00:21:23] and has passed on to others
[00:21:25] but the vision simply said we're the innovators.
[00:21:28] We're first to the market on these things.
[00:21:31] We're gonna change the way that people learn
[00:21:33] and acquire information.
[00:21:35] It was all about the quality
[00:21:36] and it was all about that
[00:21:37] and that's there again imprinted on everybody
[00:21:39] that joins the organization.
[00:21:41] We're not gonna produce the cheap stuff
[00:21:43] that just stacks the shelves.
[00:21:45] We're going after high quality,
[00:21:46] high margin items.
[00:21:48] I've been bringing more down to our level here
[00:21:52] at this organization that we both represent,
[00:21:54] the Jackson Group and Drive Leadership
[00:21:56] and Jackson Group Interactive,
[00:21:57] these clusters of these companies that we have
[00:22:00] which we're very proud.
[00:22:02] We could go out and ask,
[00:22:03] in fact I just met with a person,
[00:22:04] I was doing individual consultation with a person
[00:22:07] and then the individual said to me,
[00:22:08] he said so what do y'all do?
[00:22:11] Always my favorite question.
[00:22:12] My kids still ask me that every week.
[00:22:14] Well my dad before he passed away
[00:22:15] he used to ask me when I said,
[00:22:17] that was a consultant, a manager of a consultant.
[00:22:19] He said yeah but what do you do?
[00:22:20] What do you make?
[00:22:21] That's right, that's what you make.
[00:22:23] And the people have to have pictures drawn
[00:22:25] for them sometimes about not just knowing what we do
[00:22:29] but what we value, what we stand for.
[00:22:31] Right.
[00:22:32] But for us to say,
[00:22:34] well define the Jackson Group culture.
[00:22:36] For us to blandly say,
[00:22:37] well we want to be a culture
[00:22:39] that communicates well with its marketplace
[00:22:41] but also its employees.
[00:22:43] Everybody's gonna nod their heads and say,
[00:22:44] yeah good for you, good, good, good.
[00:22:46] But that doesn't mean we always do it.
[00:22:48] That doesn't mean we hire that entire corporation
[00:22:51] all the time.
[00:22:52] Doesn't mean that we look for those traits
[00:22:53] being good communicated and everybody will hire.
[00:22:56] You brought it up the other day in a staff meeting
[00:22:57] a couple weeks ago.
[00:22:58] We had up on the whiteboard.
[00:23:00] You saw the staff meeting with the quote
[00:23:02] and I don't know whether you came up with this Alan
[00:23:04] or somebody else did.
[00:23:04] Maybe I don't know.
[00:23:05] I don't know, did you like it?
[00:23:06] I don't know if you like it.
[00:23:07] Well, yes.
[00:23:08] Okay, yeah, yeah I came up with it, yeah.
[00:23:10] I attributed it to you.
[00:23:12] But you wrote it from the board
[00:23:13] and you said the biggest communication problems
[00:23:15] is we do not listen to understand,
[00:23:18] we listen to respond.
[00:23:19] Right.
[00:23:20] And I think you were not just quoting that
[00:23:22] to be in print but you were saying we,
[00:23:26] the Jacks group probably is part of that too.
[00:23:27] Yes.
[00:23:28] So even though we value good communications
[00:23:30] with our clients and with our staff and so on,
[00:23:32] we're not good at it because we got in the routine
[00:23:36] routinely listening for and then being responsive
[00:23:40] to what we hear.
[00:23:41] It's feeling the need to always be ready
[00:23:42] to respond as opposed to being good listeners.
[00:23:44] Check it off the list.
[00:23:45] The client won't say it, okay we do that.
[00:23:47] Well that's being responsive.
[00:23:48] Sure.
[00:23:49] But it's not listening behind the words
[00:23:50] in between the lines of what a client might really be saying.
[00:23:53] It's really just refining because I mean
[00:23:54] we've said as a culture responsiveness
[00:23:57] is really key for us and I think it still is
[00:24:00] but it's also balancing that with being able
[00:24:02] to listen to respond, not, you know
[00:24:06] and listening to understand
[00:24:07] and listening to comprehend before responding
[00:24:09] not just feeling like we've always
[00:24:11] respond with some sort of answer right away quickly
[00:24:13] to make us our self sound educated
[00:24:15] or experienced whatever it may be.
[00:24:17] So those are messages that you're right
[00:24:19] is it's putting that culture out there
[00:24:21] and refining it a little bit.
[00:24:22] It's taking the idea of yes,
[00:24:24] we're a very responsive company
[00:24:26] and we are gonna share ideas
[00:24:27] or gonna answer questions that we're gonna be helpful
[00:24:29] but we need to take a little step further
[00:24:31] and be the best listeners out there too
[00:24:34] because I think we all know
[00:24:35] those organizations that listen
[00:24:37] are the ones who are gonna get it right.
[00:24:39] Yep.
[00:24:40] And listen and they're gonna be intentional
[00:24:41] with the responses not just filling the air with words
[00:24:45] just to have it out there.
[00:24:46] Well, you know, there's a number of questions
[00:24:48] that have to be asked.
[00:24:49] Obviously what we're talking about is
[00:24:51] while we all have some sense
[00:24:53] of what our corporate culture might be
[00:24:56] I think it'd be a better exercise
[00:24:58] to ask what do we want our corporate culture to be?
[00:25:01] You know, so we craft something.
[00:25:02] We work towards something crafted
[00:25:05] and you know it's like the sculptor
[00:25:06] that somebody asked one time
[00:25:08] so this beautiful human sculpture they had made
[00:25:11] and they said gee, how do you do that?
[00:25:14] How do you craft that?
[00:25:15] How do you make that look that way?
[00:25:17] You know, this is exactly like that person
[00:25:19] and the sculptor basically said
[00:25:21] well I just chip away everything
[00:25:22] that doesn't look like the person
[00:25:24] until everything's left looks like the person.
[00:25:25] Right.
[00:25:26] It's good.
[00:25:27] Making a corporate culture work is the same way.
[00:25:29] We chip away everything and address everything
[00:25:31] and correct everything that doesn't fit
[00:25:33] what we want the culture to be like
[00:25:35] until we get it the way we want it to be.
[00:25:36] Until we're left with exactly
[00:25:37] the culture we wanted.
[00:25:38] We don't just roll the dice
[00:25:39] and say, well did it get lucky or not?
[00:25:41] You know, we have the right people?
[00:25:42] No, and I think you gotta hire people
[00:25:44] into your organization with their full knowledge
[00:25:46] of what they're getting into.
[00:25:48] What culture?
[00:25:49] And then give them a chance.
[00:25:50] Is this something that you can be successful working in?
[00:25:53] Because these are our expectations.
[00:25:54] This is what we're about.
[00:25:59] We'll get back to your show in a moment.
[00:26:01] Just a reminder, you're listening to The Mesh,
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[00:26:22] And now as promised, back to your show.
[00:26:27] So let's say dad that the organization
[00:26:29] has been very intentional in setting this culture
[00:26:31] and saying this is who we wanna be
[00:26:33] and it's communicated, it's shared,
[00:26:34] it's imprinted on station area
[00:26:38] and it's on the walls, messages and all that.
[00:26:40] It's signs and all those.
[00:26:41] As an individual leader,
[00:26:43] working in one of those organizations
[00:26:45] where you have a culture that has been defined,
[00:26:47] what should that leader be doing
[00:26:50] to make sure that culture stays intact?
[00:26:53] Well I think that's a great question, first of all.
[00:26:55] And it happens to be the,
[00:26:56] I think the third part, I'm sorry,
[00:26:58] the fourth part of the whole evolution
[00:26:59] of a culture crafting process.
[00:27:02] You hit the others.
[00:27:03] We have to find what do we value?
[00:27:05] What do we applaud?
[00:27:06] What do we want more of?
[00:27:07] Okay, first.
[00:27:09] Secondly we have to ideate.
[00:27:10] We have to generate ideas about okay,
[00:27:12] what are the visible signs that we want to be
[00:27:14] always coming out from our organization?
[00:27:16] From its people, from our message
[00:27:18] that we send out from our communications
[00:27:20] that people can identify with and say,
[00:27:22] oh yeah, that's what's important to them.
[00:27:25] Third is hard wire.
[00:27:26] We've been talking a lot about that.
[00:27:27] How do you make it part of your organization's nature
[00:27:31] that all people don't say function the same way
[00:27:35] or work the same way.
[00:27:36] That's not it at all.
[00:27:37] Which you have to have the diversity
[00:27:38] but on the same sheet of music.
[00:27:40] You know, modern theory is called an alignment.
[00:27:43] They say alignment.
[00:27:44] How do you align your people
[00:27:45] with what you want to accomplish
[00:27:46] and what you want to get done
[00:27:47] and what your mission is?
[00:27:49] What's all it means is
[00:27:50] how do you get people in the same sheet of music?
[00:27:51] So they value the same things as corporations
[00:27:53] that it values, okay?
[00:27:55] And that's part of where leadership comes in.
[00:27:58] But also the fourth part
[00:27:59] of that whole evolution process
[00:28:01] is how do we renew
[00:28:03] and how do we keep that culture alive
[00:28:05] and focus all the time?
[00:28:06] How do you keep our,
[00:28:07] and only keep the focus but in focus
[00:28:10] a clear picture of what we are?
[00:28:12] That's where leadership comes in at two levels.
[00:28:15] Corporate leadership meaning owners of the company
[00:28:17] or proprietaries or CEOs and senior staff.
[00:28:22] As I said, it starts there.
[00:28:23] They have to emulate, they have to see.
[00:28:26] When people look up the corporate ladder
[00:28:28] they have to see behaviors that emulate
[00:28:30] what that corporate culture is supposed to be like
[00:28:31] in the behavior of those people.
[00:28:33] They also have to use language that reinstills.
[00:28:35] I think the language and the messages
[00:28:37] that CEOs, vice presidents,
[00:28:39] upper level management sends out all the time
[00:28:41] and what they see, how they say it,
[00:28:43] how often they say it, what they reinforce
[00:28:45] and what they confront sometimes
[00:28:48] is a big part of keeping that culture
[00:28:51] hardwired and in place.
[00:28:53] So it's just drift away with time.
[00:28:55] It's the latest buzz thing to go through.
[00:28:57] And a lot of that,
[00:28:58] and this is really a key point
[00:28:59] that I wanna make today because
[00:29:00] most of our work as you know
[00:29:01] is obviously we do a lot with senior teams,
[00:29:04] presidents and vice presidents.
[00:29:06] What we do most of our work
[00:29:08] with department directors and managers.
[00:29:10] This is the key point I wanna make.
[00:29:12] Those departments are cultures in and among themselves
[00:29:16] nested into a broader corporate culture.
[00:29:19] Okay.
[00:29:20] Kind of like subcultures,
[00:29:21] but you know what every manager
[00:29:22] and director has within there
[00:29:24] to be the CEO of that department if you will.
[00:29:28] So they can craft a culture for that department.
[00:29:31] Our radiology department in a healthcare organization,
[00:29:35] what are we gonna be known for?
[00:29:36] You know our customer service to people
[00:29:38] inside the hospital with our patients.
[00:29:40] What are we gonna be known for?
[00:29:40] What are our trademarks?
[00:29:42] What puts its stamp on us?
[00:29:44] So it's not even feeling like as a department director
[00:29:47] that you just automatically have to adhere
[00:29:49] the exact replica of what the corporation culture is
[00:29:52] and try to apply it in your department.
[00:29:55] You can create a little bit
[00:29:56] of your own subculture like you said
[00:29:57] with your own areas of things
[00:29:59] that you wanna play up and focus.
[00:30:01] What it means in our work area particularly.
[00:30:02] I mean everybody at corporate level
[00:30:04] is gonna say in a healthcare environment,
[00:30:06] they're gonna say things like,
[00:30:07] well we wanna be known for providing
[00:30:09] or improving the healthcare in the community.
[00:30:11] Sure.
[00:30:12] Well sure and who doesn't?
[00:30:13] I mean if you said no,
[00:30:14] I don't wanna be known for that
[00:30:15] because we don't wanna improve.
[00:30:16] Be kinda crazy to do.
[00:30:18] But when you translate that into behaviors,
[00:30:20] okay which can approve to people
[00:30:22] that that's the way we are though
[00:30:23] and that's what our efforts are directed towards
[00:30:25] in our culture.
[00:30:26] That our culture drives behaviors
[00:30:28] of the people who are affiliated with it.
[00:30:30] Right.
[00:30:31] What do we translate that into?
[00:30:32] Same thing can be done at the department level.
[00:30:35] You really can't be, or a team level.
[00:30:36] It doesn't matter.
[00:30:37] I would assume just as long as that
[00:30:39] department culture is in direct opposition
[00:30:41] to what the corporation's trying to do.
[00:30:43] I mean there's gotta be some synergy there.
[00:30:44] Sure.
[00:30:45] But it can be a lot more refined,
[00:30:46] it can be a lot more focused,
[00:30:47] it can be a lot more unique
[00:30:49] to that individual work area.
[00:30:50] Absolutely.
[00:30:51] Okay.
[00:30:51] Absolutely.
[00:30:52] That's what I'm talking about
[00:30:53] and making sure that people have a clear understanding
[00:30:55] that culture is, the best cultures
[00:30:58] are those that are designed in my intention.
[00:31:00] Good intention.
[00:31:01] Design is an active leadership process,
[00:31:03] not a passive one.
[00:31:04] Second is that it trickles from the top down.
[00:31:07] Right.
[00:31:08] Not from the bottom up.
[00:31:09] It's not just a function of who we happen
[00:31:11] to have working for us and who they are
[00:31:13] that defines who we are as a company.
[00:31:15] The company defines what people go after
[00:31:18] and what people fits best in our culture.
[00:31:20] Okay.
[00:31:21] You know what we do at the Jackson Group?
[00:31:22] Sure.
[00:31:23] One of our biggest questions of people,
[00:31:24] do you think you can work successfully
[00:31:26] in this type of culture that we have here?
[00:31:28] Mm-hmm.
[00:31:29] And we're very candid to people,
[00:31:30] you know, give them, you know,
[00:31:31] we give them the ups and downs of our companies.
[00:31:33] We tell them the positive sides
[00:31:34] and then the frustrating sides
[00:31:36] because we want them to make an informed choice
[00:31:38] if they're gonna work with us
[00:31:39] that they can fit our culture,
[00:31:41] no matter how defined.
[00:31:42] And it's fitting our culture
[00:31:43] because we don't intend for the culture
[00:31:45] to change based on who we bring in necessarily.
[00:31:48] Unless it's people who are designing
[00:31:49] that we bring in to impact change.
[00:31:51] Or they're adding something to our culture
[00:31:53] that can get us stronger, absolutely.
[00:31:54] But it's still by design.
[00:31:55] That's right.
[00:31:56] It's still intentional and not just happens
[00:31:58] to be whatever we have laying around at the time.
[00:32:00] So, you know, there are other things
[00:32:01] to keep the culture alive
[00:32:03] that we have crafted at this point.
[00:32:04] You know, whether it's at the department level
[00:32:06] or the organizational level
[00:32:07] and trickles down and so on and so forth.
[00:32:09] But if we made a conscious effort to craft a culture
[00:32:12] rather than just take it, you know,
[00:32:14] it is what it is,
[00:32:14] talking about it's a very relaxed and day-to-day approach.
[00:32:17] We say that leadership message is message from leadership.
[00:32:19] It's very important.
[00:32:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:32:22] What we print out printed wise,
[00:32:23] it says things about our company.
[00:32:25] How we can say things in brochures
[00:32:27] or mailings and emails
[00:32:29] and what's that thing called?
[00:32:30] Internet, you know, all this stuff.
[00:32:31] Yes, right, right.
[00:32:32] That new and emerging thing, the internet, right.
[00:32:34] That's right, that's right.
[00:32:35] And on that facelift thing too.
[00:32:37] So...
[00:32:37] But it's also a function of what people see
[00:32:41] as celebrating and what we celebrate internally.
[00:32:43] Hopefully we have celebrations.
[00:32:45] You know, where we applaud certain behaviors of staff
[00:32:48] or contributions of staff.
[00:32:50] Well, we celebrate together.
[00:32:51] You know, if we'd say we want to be known
[00:32:53] as a highly team, integrated team organization,
[00:32:57] we're high reliance on each component of our organization.
[00:33:00] You know, two plus two equals five, not just four.
[00:33:03] Right.
[00:33:04] I think that people never know that we don't have...
[00:33:06] They say that we don't have team retreats
[00:33:09] or don't have team meetings
[00:33:10] or we don't celebrate team successes
[00:33:12] and that sort of stuff.
[00:33:13] It's kind of like, well, okay,
[00:33:14] I heard you say that,
[00:33:15] but I don't believe it
[00:33:16] because they don't see the evidence, okay?
[00:33:17] Well, plus whatever you choose to celebrate
[00:33:19] and raise up,
[00:33:20] you're basically saying to everybody,
[00:33:21] this is important to us.
[00:33:23] If you're not raising up certain elements,
[00:33:25] but you're focusing on others that may be more negative
[00:33:28] or more detrimental to the culture,
[00:33:29] then that's what people are gonna think is important.
[00:33:31] Absolutely.
[00:33:32] Absolutely.
[00:33:33] And the intent of celebration
[00:33:35] is what do we tend to confront?
[00:33:37] You know, if somebody's portraying the opposite
[00:33:40] of what we want to be portrayed
[00:33:41] in our value systems and its culture
[00:33:44] or they're acting counterculture, if you would,
[00:33:46] we have to confront that.
[00:33:47] So other people see it and say,
[00:33:49] that we don't tolerate.
[00:33:50] Yeah.
[00:33:51] You know, it's not what we celebrate.
[00:33:52] It's also what we don't tolerate.
[00:33:53] It sends the messages, okay?
[00:33:55] Yeah, sure.
[00:33:56] Slogans, signs, what we put out about us,
[00:33:59] what we want to be hearing people
[00:34:00] or knowing that people hear being said about us.
[00:34:03] Mm-hmm.
[00:34:04] How we reinforce...
[00:34:05] We're at the branding side of things,
[00:34:05] kind of how we brand our message.
[00:34:07] Branding is great for sure.
[00:34:08] You make sure it's everywhere
[00:34:08] that people are visible
[00:34:10] and there's no mixed messages anywhere.
[00:34:11] And it's branding not just to have a visual image
[00:34:14] but a clear picture of what we're like
[00:34:16] as a place to do business with
[00:34:18] or work in.
[00:34:19] Sure, okay.
[00:34:20] How we reinforce and applaud behaviors
[00:34:22] of the staff who we hire.
[00:34:24] Right, mm-hmm.
[00:34:25] And then finally our organization of goals.
[00:34:27] I mean, everybody does annual goal.
[00:34:29] Well, then it's an exercise
[00:34:31] and endurance test for a lot of people, okay?
[00:34:33] But what it should be,
[00:34:35] that the priority of those goals
[00:34:36] should reflect the priorities
[00:34:39] of our values at our corporate culture.
[00:34:41] We want to be and we want to continue to be
[00:34:43] what we want to extoll and hold up
[00:34:44] and celebrate should be seen
[00:34:46] as what we're gonna make happen this coming year.
[00:34:48] So in other words, if just hypothetically,
[00:34:50] an organization that says we wanna place
[00:34:52] all of our emphasis as a culture
[00:34:54] on customer service, customer relationships,
[00:34:57] longevity and retention of our clients.
[00:34:59] Or profit margin or any of those hard classes.
[00:35:01] Yeah, but if they're choosing that
[00:35:02] but then they say well the only goal
[00:35:04] that we're really tracking is profitability,
[00:35:06] you kinda lose in the mixed message.
[00:35:08] There you go, absolutely.
[00:35:09] If all people hear about some numbers
[00:35:10] when they're hearing on the one hand
[00:35:11] our mission is and our values are,
[00:35:13] it's just people just don't believe it.
[00:35:15] Right.
[00:35:16] Gain adherence to our culture and our mission that way.
[00:35:20] Okay.
[00:35:21] And go back to orange as a new black.
[00:35:23] Okay.
[00:35:24] It's very quickly, new inmates learn
[00:35:27] who to buddy up to, who not to,
[00:35:29] who to watch out for, who to listen to,
[00:35:31] who not to listen to, how we get things done here.
[00:35:34] Right.
[00:35:34] You know, how we make trades,
[00:35:35] how we reinforce our behaviors,
[00:35:37] who's got your back who doesn't.
[00:35:39] Sure.
[00:35:40] Those are all cultural messages.
[00:35:41] The same thing happens when new employees
[00:35:43] coming into any culture organization.
[00:35:44] Think about it.
[00:35:46] And that's one reason I think
[00:35:47] that one of the ways that we maintain or build
[00:35:49] and enhance our cultures is through
[00:35:51] new employees coming on board.
[00:35:53] Not who we hire necessarily.
[00:35:55] Right.
[00:35:56] I hope we hire for good fit to the culture.
[00:35:58] But there, there's how we orient them.
[00:36:00] Before they even sign the papers,
[00:36:01] we ought to give them a clear picture
[00:36:03] what it's like to work here.
[00:36:04] Okay.
[00:36:05] What's applauded and what's not applauded.
[00:36:06] Right.
[00:36:07] And also, and you know,
[00:36:08] we've seen that happen before.
[00:36:09] And also soon after orientation,
[00:36:12] everybody already be hearing the same messages
[00:36:15] about who we are, what we celebrate,
[00:36:16] what we tolerate throughout the organization.
[00:36:19] Why are you smiling right now?
[00:36:20] No, I'm just, I'm trying to picture in a,
[00:36:21] in the prison environment with the television show.
[00:36:24] How different it would be.
[00:36:25] I know what you're picturing.
[00:36:26] Well, if a new prisoner came on board
[00:36:28] and instead of it being a,
[00:36:30] the other inmates basically say,
[00:36:31] you're going to sleep in that bed
[00:36:32] and you got to come to me whenever you want this.
[00:36:35] I'm the only way to provide this.
[00:36:37] It's just that whole culture is being set
[00:36:38] by the inmates there.
[00:36:40] How imagine how different it would be
[00:36:41] to have the actual people running the prison to say,
[00:36:43] okay, well let's walk you through everything
[00:36:45] that you need to know throughout the day.
[00:36:46] And here's the people you're going to need to visit.
[00:36:48] And this is how we really like to interact with others.
[00:36:50] I mean, no, that happens.
[00:36:51] None of that happens.
[00:36:52] So the inmates are creating their own culture,
[00:36:54] you know, for the better or for worse around them.
[00:36:56] They create and maintain that culture.
[00:36:58] They really do.
[00:36:59] And where you got your leadership basically
[00:37:01] just kind of throwing them in a situation.
[00:37:02] So here you go, go figure it out, have fun.
[00:37:04] And they're left to be influenced by all the others.
[00:37:08] And see the only role that management of the prison
[00:37:11] in that particular case would have
[00:37:12] in shaping the culture would be
[00:37:13] through policy procedures, rules and regulations.
[00:37:15] That's right, you're not allowed to do this.
[00:37:16] And physically out of the building.
[00:37:18] I mean that's the only thing they control about that.
[00:37:20] They don't control the behaviors,
[00:37:23] but they can shape some of the behaviors
[00:37:24] because we boxed them in
[00:37:26] because of policies and procedures, rules and regulations.
[00:37:28] Sure.
[00:37:29] That type of thing.
[00:37:30] And a lot of companies that you work for are the same way.
[00:37:33] You know, thou shalt not supersede
[00:37:37] the way we want to be.
[00:37:38] We even do with a lot of our employee engagement surveys
[00:37:41] and work culture surveys we conduct,
[00:37:43] we actually ask a lot of questions of newer employees,
[00:37:45] people who've been here less than a year or so,
[00:37:48] to find out where they well oriented,
[00:37:50] where they well welcomed in their department,
[00:37:53] did they receive the support they needed from leadership,
[00:37:55] and do they understand kind of the mission,
[00:37:58] the values of the organization,
[00:37:59] do they have a buy-in of those?
[00:38:01] And it's interesting to see those work areas
[00:38:03] where you can tell somebody gets in there
[00:38:06] and it's immediately the coworkers are saying,
[00:38:07] oh this is the way you gotta do this.
[00:38:09] And if you really wanna get anything done around here,
[00:38:11] you gotta do this.
[00:38:12] Don't listen to this person,
[00:38:13] you gotta go to this person.
[00:38:15] And it's very clear when you've got that kind of culture
[00:38:16] versus the one where an employee comes in
[00:38:18] and everybody's on the same page,
[00:38:20] everybody's saying the same messages,
[00:38:22] and it's all because it's being shared top down
[00:38:24] all throughout the organization.
[00:38:25] Well here's a practical aspect of that.
[00:38:27] I know in previous episodes of Leadership GPS
[00:38:30] we talked about some work experiences
[00:38:32] I had in Textile Mill years ago.
[00:38:33] Right, sure.
[00:38:34] Where people want to be more appreciated
[00:38:38] by their coworkers than they do
[00:38:39] by supervision and leadership.
[00:38:41] People want to fit in,
[00:38:43] they want the accolades from their colleagues
[00:38:45] much more so than they want the out-of-boys from leadership.
[00:38:48] Okay?
[00:38:48] Anyway, whole different set of stories there.
[00:38:51] But one that relates to that I think just as well,
[00:38:55] a lot of times has to do with
[00:38:57] how people assimilate into the organization
[00:38:59] and who they pick their messages from positive or negative.
[00:39:02] And so basically the message is will be like us.
[00:39:04] If you want to be successful in this environment,
[00:39:07] be like us.
[00:39:09] Now if you've hired all the right people
[00:39:10] and you've ingrained them the right cultural norms
[00:39:13] while all those be like us messages are positive,
[00:39:16] team oriented, customer centered, whatever it might be.
[00:39:19] Great, who better than to hear from
[00:39:21] than those colleagues who are spouting
[00:39:23] the same stuff that leadership would be?
[00:39:24] Sure, right.
[00:39:25] It's when there's a counterculture message
[00:39:28] and people come in and say well,
[00:39:30] what's it really like to work in here?
[00:39:33] Oh my God, you chose us to work with, why?
[00:39:36] All those types of things
[00:39:37] and there are organizational subcultures like that.
[00:39:39] I'm working right now with an organizational subculture
[00:39:42] and a healthcare organization.
[00:39:44] It's about 67 employees and it's vicious.
[00:39:48] Okay.
[00:39:49] And then taking a lot of the light
[00:39:50] in making it hard for new employees
[00:39:52] to be accepted into that department.
[00:39:54] They have to fight your way in.
[00:39:56] So they have high turnover.
[00:39:58] Sure.
[00:39:59] Among new employees in that first year.
[00:40:00] That would make sense.
[00:40:01] And everybody just sit back and say, well, well, well,
[00:40:03] because people don't help them be successful.
[00:40:05] They almost dare them to be successful
[00:40:07] and be counterculture to what the culture exists
[00:40:09] because of culture negative.
[00:40:11] It's really interesting.
[00:40:12] It's a human behavioral
[00:40:13] and organizational behavior type of phenomenon.
[00:40:16] I think when you talk about shaping or crafting a culture
[00:40:19] or just accepting the culture as whoever we happen to hire
[00:40:24] and whoever we happen to be for the moment.
[00:40:27] So creating a culture that being intentional about it,
[00:40:30] actually designing it,
[00:40:32] not just letting it happen on its own accord
[00:40:33] but really being intentional about saying
[00:40:35] this is who we want to be.
[00:40:36] Making sure it's clear through messaging you're saying
[00:40:38] about signage and printed material
[00:40:41] and everything else that people see.
[00:40:43] And then making sure leadership
[00:40:44] is obviously constantly reinforcing that.
[00:40:46] And I would assume modeling it to some degree as well.
[00:40:49] And you got to have your leaders following in line
[00:40:51] with that culture and not being counter to it.
[00:40:53] But also one thing I thought was interesting
[00:40:55] is the idea of letting departments or work areas
[00:40:58] kind of have their own little bit of a subculture
[00:41:00] as long as it still is emphasizing
[00:41:02] what the corporate culture is still doing.
[00:41:04] It's kind of like a mini subculture.
[00:41:07] What's that term?
[00:41:08] Mini me that came from one of the programs
[00:41:10] on the P-Things in modern age.
[00:41:12] Anyway, it's not how the miniature model of,
[00:41:15] but they can make it their own.
[00:41:17] That's the way I hope organization can function is that,
[00:41:21] what we value here is that we hope the Jackson Group
[00:41:23] can be an umbrella for a lot of untrarily minded people
[00:41:27] who do well what they are there to do
[00:41:30] under the corporate umbrella
[00:41:32] of the supportive umbrella of the Jackson Group.
[00:41:35] To let people work well.
[00:41:38] What we want to be is a total corporation.
[00:41:40] Right, perfect.
[00:41:42] And that's such a thing to do.
[00:41:43] You've got latitude and all that,
[00:41:44] but under that corporate umbrella.
[00:41:47] Okay. Very great.
[00:41:48] This is great.
[00:41:49] Now this is good defining a corporate culture.
[00:41:50] I think very, very important.
[00:41:52] Talking about here in our leadership podcast
[00:41:54] because we are talking about leadership's role
[00:41:56] in making this happen.
[00:41:57] It is leadership that has to design that culture.
[00:41:59] Leadership has to emphasize
[00:42:01] and reinforce that culture for it to happen.
[00:42:03] Cannot just be a byproduct of
[00:42:06] just whatever you happen to be making that week
[00:42:07] or whoever you happen to hire in your departments.
[00:42:09] So absolutely.
[00:42:10] And the key, leadership is also one thing
[00:42:13] we didn't mention.
[00:42:14] Leadership, the key is to keep
[00:42:15] in those positive cultural norms in place
[00:42:19] despite the overall success of the corporation or not.
[00:42:22] You could be losing your rear end,
[00:42:24] bleeding dollars and profit
[00:42:26] and low profit margin and layoff people.
[00:42:29] And it's tougher, but you can still say
[00:42:31] but what's important to us is.
[00:42:34] And we just have to manage it differently
[00:42:36] given this dire situation we're in
[00:42:38] or this depressed economy or whatever it might be.
[00:42:40] We're not losing sight of the culture
[00:42:42] and the culture's not changing
[00:42:43] because we're having a tough time of things.
[00:42:45] We've still got to be focused on the culture
[00:42:47] that we're going to keep and maintain.
[00:42:48] One other quote I'll run across
[00:42:50] is as a culture defines the heart of the organization.
[00:42:53] And a change of heart is not to be taken lightly.
[00:42:56] Yeah, think about that.
[00:42:56] That's good. I like that a lot.
[00:42:58] It's very good.
[00:42:58] I came up with that one, I think.
[00:42:59] Did you?
[00:43:00] I think so.
[00:43:01] I put my name by it.
[00:43:02] I'm not sure about that.
[00:43:02] All right.
[00:43:03] What you said, if it's, you know,
[00:43:05] unless you know differently, yes I did.
[00:43:07] Our engineering intern's going to need to research that
[00:43:09] and make sure we didn't copy that
[00:43:11] from somewhere else.
[00:43:13] I'll read that one again.
[00:43:14] Okay, just cause again,
[00:43:15] I think I came up with it.
[00:43:16] Culture defines the heart of the organization
[00:43:19] and a change of heart is not to be taken lightly.
[00:43:21] Wow.
[00:43:22] I hope you made that out.
[00:43:24] That's good.
[00:43:25] Proud of your old dad.
[00:43:26] I am.
[00:43:27] As long as you didn't copy it.
[00:43:30] Even if you copied it,
[00:43:30] I'm still proud of you for finding it.
[00:43:32] 67 something.
[00:43:33] My mind's not quite what it was,
[00:43:34] but to master my recollection.
[00:43:37] This is like Mr. Senator.
[00:43:39] You know, all right, good.
[00:43:41] Well, I think we'll wrap up the conversation today
[00:43:43] for that.
[00:43:44] And I think it summed it up really, really nicely too.
[00:43:46] So a lot of good information there.
[00:43:48] If you liked the kind of conversation we're having,
[00:43:49] we recorded, gosh, I don't know how many episodes
[00:43:52] so far in kind of our first iteration of this
[00:43:54] that are all available online on themesh.tv.
[00:43:57] That's T-H-E-M-E-S-H.tv, the website there.
[00:44:02] You can also find us on iTunes
[00:44:03] by doing a search for leadership GPS
[00:44:06] as well as Stitcher radio
[00:44:07] and all those are available for on-demand downloading
[00:44:09] and playing of all of our past episodes.
[00:44:11] We also recommend you check out all the other shows
[00:44:13] on themesh.tv network.
[00:44:16] We've got everything ranging from film reviews
[00:44:18] to sports to entertainment to business.
[00:44:21] If you liked this show,
[00:44:22] another show you may want to check out
[00:44:24] is called Stepping Up Service.
[00:44:26] That's great.
[00:44:26] Where we talk about the world of customer service,
[00:44:28] not just from a leadership perspective
[00:44:30] but even from an employee perspective.
[00:44:32] But this episode in particular,
[00:44:33] I think there's other things that if you find
[00:44:35] that you're trying to define a culture
[00:44:38] and it takes having to refine some of your processes
[00:44:40] to match that culture,
[00:44:42] there's actually been some discussions
[00:44:43] in the Customer Service podcast
[00:44:45] about how do you enhance your processes
[00:44:47] and internal operations to match the culture
[00:44:50] that you want to set.
[00:44:51] So some good complimentary information as well.
[00:44:53] Co-Hort in that Stepping Up Service
[00:44:56] is head gag non out of Charlotte, North Carolina.
[00:44:58] His company is Customer Service Initiatives.
[00:45:00] Customer Service Solutions.
[00:45:01] Solutions, CSS.
[00:45:02] I'm sorry, CSS.
[00:45:04] TV again, CSI.
[00:45:05] CSI, I know.
[00:45:06] Yeah, it's a CSS.
[00:45:07] Not dead bodies, this is not customer service.
[00:45:10] That's right, but we do recommend you check out
[00:45:11] that show as well.
[00:45:12] These two kind of compliment each other nicely,
[00:45:14] especially if your culture is going to be very focused
[00:45:17] on the idea of delivering outstanding customer service.
[00:45:20] Again, we want to pass along our thanks
[00:45:21] and encourage you to check out
[00:45:23] the Greater Hickory Kia Classic
[00:45:24] coming up October 13th through the 19th, 2014.
[00:45:28] So as we record this,
[00:45:30] we're just a few months away from that tournament happening.
[00:45:33] It's gonna be a lot of fun at Rock Barn Golf and Spa
[00:45:35] in Conover, North Carolina.
[00:45:37] You can find out more information about the tournament
[00:45:39] or get your tickets now
[00:45:40] at greaterhickorykiaclassic.com.
[00:45:44] On the website that's www.greaterhickorykiaclassic.com.
[00:45:49] That's K-I-A.
[00:45:50] K-I-A.
[00:45:51] That's the car.
[00:45:53] Kia Classic there.
[00:45:54] And we're very happy to have the Kia Classic
[00:45:56] as a sponsor here on The Mesh
[00:45:58] and a partner with us as we go forward
[00:46:00] and really bring a great event to this area.
[00:46:03] I just thought of a small slogan for them,
[00:46:04] otherwise since we're talking about
[00:46:05] the message of the culture.
[00:46:06] Okay, good slogan.
[00:46:07] And that is, as golfing tournaments well done.
[00:46:10] Golfing tournaments well done.
[00:46:12] Yep.
[00:46:13] Okay.
[00:46:14] For the city of Hickory in this area too,
[00:46:15] we have, what's the slogan
[00:46:17] that y'all been working on there?
[00:46:18] Life Wellcrafted.
[00:46:19] Left Wellcrafted.
[00:46:20] So the same thing,
[00:46:21] golfing tournaments well crafted or well done?
[00:46:23] Well done, well crafted.
[00:46:24] Yeah.
[00:46:24] I'll send that right in
[00:46:25] see what we can do with it.
[00:46:26] Not sure you will.
[00:46:27] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:46:28] Well, that's gonna be all for Leadership GPS.
[00:46:30] I do wanna say if you're interested
[00:46:31] in either connecting with one of the two of us,
[00:46:33] there's a couple ways you can reach us.
[00:46:35] Tony's work is through Driver Leadership
[00:46:37] and that's a program that we have here
[00:46:38] at the Jackson Group working with individual managers
[00:46:41] and an organization helping them on the path
[00:46:43] to becoming really strong leaders
[00:46:45] for that organization as well.
[00:46:46] We do have a website, driverleadership.com
[00:46:49] that you can also go through our parent website
[00:46:51] which is thejaxinggroup.com.
[00:46:53] Either way, there's ways to reach us
[00:46:54] and contact us through there.
[00:46:56] Thejaxinggroup.com, that's where we spend a lot of time
[00:46:58] talking about employee satisfaction surveys,
[00:47:01] customer satisfaction and engagement surveys,
[00:47:04] looking at training and reinforcement of the ideas
[00:47:07] we collect from the surveys,
[00:47:08] research projects where we gather data
[00:47:10] from communities or populations
[00:47:12] to help you make better strategic decisions
[00:47:14] for your organization.
[00:47:15] And part of our culture as a Jackson Group
[00:47:17] is a fine by our slogan, if you will.
[00:47:20] That's right.
[00:47:20] Which is our corporate mission, if you would,
[00:47:23] is to help organizations manage well,
[00:47:25] serve well and communicate well.
[00:47:27] That's right.
[00:47:27] If we do things that don't contribute
[00:47:29] to one of those three or more than that,
[00:47:31] we're not doing our job.
[00:47:32] We don't need to be doing it.
[00:47:32] We're not living up to our culture.
[00:47:33] That's right, absolutely.
[00:47:35] So you can learn a little bit more
[00:47:36] about our companies at Thejaxinggroup.com,
[00:47:39] driveleadership.com,
[00:47:41] and then with our multimedia company
[00:47:43] here, Jackson Group Interactive,
[00:47:44] you can learn more about that.
[00:47:45] That's the parent of the mesh here
[00:47:47] and kind of the guys setting up this whole network
[00:47:51] and making it happen.
[00:47:52] That's at JGInteractive.com.
[00:47:55] So we just plugged a lot of sites,
[00:47:56] but with that I think we're ready to wrap up the show.
[00:47:59] Thanks a lot, Dad, for your time.
[00:48:00] I'm glad to get the show going again
[00:48:02] after taking a little bit of a hiatus.
[00:48:03] I'm glad you're coming back,
[00:48:04] rather than Tony all this time.
[00:48:05] Damn.
[00:48:06] Yeah, we jump around between names
[00:48:08] from time to time on the show,
[00:48:10] but I appreciate all your input
[00:48:11] and expertise on the subject here.
[00:48:13] I've enjoyed it, son.
[00:48:14] All right, great.
[00:48:15] Thanks everybody.
[00:48:16] We'll talk to you next time.
[00:48:17] Lead the way all.
[00:48:22] You've been listening to The Mesh,
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