[00:00:02] What you want, when you want it, where you want it. This is The MESH.
[00:00:07] Leadership GPS, insightful conversations about leadership and what it takes to be successful in today's rapidly changing organizations.
[00:00:17] Hello and welcome to Leadership GPS. My name is Alan Jackson and with me is Tony Jackson.
[00:00:24] Both of us from the Jackson Group ready to talk a little bit about leadership. How are you doing Dad?
[00:00:28] I'm doing great Alan, how about you?
[00:00:30] Doing fine, doing fine. Glad to have you here again today.
[00:00:32] Leadership GPS is our leadership development and leadership communication discussion form that we have every every so often here on the mesh.
[00:00:40] We like to get together and talk about leadership. My father Tony here is a leadership development consultant.
[00:00:46] I guess coach, although you don't like to use word coach very often.
[00:00:48] Consultant, consultant, leadership consultant, leadership consultant working with a program called drive leadership where he works with select organizations on taking some of their managers or individuals and helping develop those leadership skills.
[00:01:00] I'm with the Jackson Group, which is a firm conducting employee and customer satisfaction engagement and loyalty surveys for a variety of industries.
[00:01:08] Lots centralized in the healthcare industry, but a few other industries as well.
[00:01:12] We like to get together, talk about leadership, talk about different aspects of leadership.
[00:01:15] Today Dad, I've got kind of an interesting dilemma to share with you.
[00:01:18] Okay.
[00:01:19] And this is a very timely news driven one as well, something that's been in the headlines recently, especially in the tech community.
[00:01:25] And I want to throw the situation out there and see how we would respond or what kind of advice we could give somebody who's in a very similar situation in the future.
[00:01:33] The company Yahoo, who has been beleaguered for many, many years.
[00:01:36] They've had a lot of change in leadership, a lot of issues between their board and the presidents and everything else.
[00:01:43] They recently put in Marissa Myers, who is an up and coming leader.
[00:01:47] She was with Google for many years.
[00:01:49] She's now the CEO of Yahoo has been for maybe the last couple of years.
[00:01:52] She made a decision just recently that has really gotten a lot of firestorm on the internet, people talking in the new circuits.
[00:01:58] Made a decision to take anybody who was working remotely out of the office and bring them back to into the main building campus.
[00:02:06] Yeah, I'm proud of that.
[00:02:07] So you've got an internet based company that just as a reference point, many of these internet based companies have remote workers all over the place.
[00:02:15] So here she's made this unilateral decision.
[00:02:17] We're going to bring them all back into the building.
[00:02:19] We don't want any more remote employee working anymore, any more out of the office building.
[00:02:23] There's a lot of reasons I think she had that that change made.
[00:02:26] I think she felt like it was more of a control thing.
[00:02:28] I think she wanted everybody focused and having facilitate better dialogue, whatever the reasons may be.
[00:02:34] I don't really want to talk about the reasons why the decisions are made in the present cons.
[00:02:38] I want us to put ourselves in the shoes.
[00:02:40] This is honestly one of the first things that went through my head when I heard this thought what if I was somebody a leader but a mid level leader?
[00:02:46] Maybe a VP, maybe a director, maybe somebody that's not the top brass.
[00:02:51] Manager over of a work group or whatever.
[00:02:53] Sure, exactly.
[00:02:54] And all of a sudden I hear this edict come down from my boss.
[00:02:59] I've got a team of maybe 40, 50 employees and half of them are ones that work remotely.
[00:03:04] So now all of a sudden I've got to be the one to help enforce this mandate.
[00:03:10] Then possibly be the bad guy in the eyes.
[00:03:13] That's right.
[00:03:14] Especially if I personally don't agree with it whatsoever.
[00:03:17] You don't agree?
[00:03:18] Well, I'm just saying for this scenario, let's assume this person does not agree with the situation.
[00:03:23] So to look at it in more of a broader scope, I guess what I'm posing as an example of you work with an organization.
[00:03:28] The organization makes a major strategic change or decision or policy change that you yourself personally do not agree with.
[00:03:36] But yet you are charged with not only communicating this change to your team but helping support it even though you don't agree with it.
[00:03:43] If you were somebody in Yahoo and you got handed down that message and you had to go share that with your employees
[00:03:49] but you also had to support it going forward, but you didn't agree with it.
[00:03:53] What are some things we ought to try to do or we could advise those people in these situations to do to handle that?
[00:03:57] That's a tough one.
[00:03:58] And unfortunately my time is up with you this morning Alan.
[00:04:01] Oh well, maybe I'll have to catch up next time and see if you have an answer for us.
[00:04:05] I did kind of spoon the situation on with it.
[00:04:07] Well, it's like I personally disagree with your topic today but I've got to support it so.
[00:04:11] Right.
[00:04:12] Well that is a tough one.
[00:04:14] Okay because what it really puts a person as a leader in the position of is defending something that they find indefensible.
[00:04:22] First of all, and that's a values choice.
[00:04:25] This is where it calls for a leader to act out of their value set more than anything else I think.
[00:04:30] And that being said, there's one word that I'm going to use that ought to permeate everything out of the things that can be done and that's honesty.
[00:04:37] Okay.
[00:04:38] Right?
[00:04:39] You cannot go wrong with being honest with the folks who say to you, where are you on this?
[00:04:44] Surely you don't go along with this.
[00:04:45] You know it's maybe okay to say personally I don't.
[00:04:49] You know, but that's where you got to use the word but.
[00:04:51] But.
[00:04:52] Yeah, that's gotta be the button there.
[00:04:53] Maybe two words we're going to say honesty and a but.
[00:04:56] Okay.
[00:04:57] Don't forget the but.
[00:04:58] That's not right.
[00:04:59] All right, let's take it back a minute.
[00:05:02] First of all, I think the leader is the one who has to grapple with them themselves and it has to be a strategy.
[00:05:08] You know, I'm in favor and a lot of the consultations that I give to managers sometimes in leadership positions is say every person that you have reporting to you deserves a strategy from you.
[00:05:19] A strategy about how are you going to help them get from here to there?
[00:05:22] Okay.
[00:05:23] Same thing is true in this scenario if you think about it.
[00:05:25] The leader even they have to put their personal side or feelings aside for a moment and then they have to set back and say, okay, but my role, my responsibility as a leader in this organization at this point in its time in history is to help move people along in the direction the organization wants to go.
[00:05:41] This being a part of it.
[00:05:42] So first of all, they have to grapple with the fact of what is my personal responsibility as a leader.
[00:05:46] Sure.
[00:05:47] Secondly though, they have to work through their own disagreement and resistance to whatever that decision has been.
[00:05:53] So I'm sitting there thinking, I don't know why in the world she could make that decision.
[00:05:57] This company, you know, president of our company, it's a dumb thing to do.
[00:06:00] The whole world is moving in the direction of farming out things and working from home and optional work environments and all that.
[00:06:07] What's a modernistic thing to do?
[00:06:08] And she's shrinking it back in.
[00:06:09] You got to be kidding me.
[00:06:11] If I'm thinking that, there's hardly any way that still retaining those thoughts that can then turn right around to my staff and say, guess what we get to do folks.
[00:06:20] This is what going to be happening.
[00:06:21] This is a good thing because I'm not to the point of believing it's a good thing yet.
[00:06:25] So the first thing that I have to do is work through my own disagreements with it.
[00:06:29] And to do that, I'm going to have to answer two questions.
[00:06:33] And they're the same two questions that I advise people all the time.
[00:06:36] Any time you're trying to implement change for somebody else, with somebody else or even with yourself, you have to have two questions answered.
[00:06:43] Why?
[00:06:44] Why?
[00:06:45] And how?
[00:06:46] All right.
[00:06:47] The first one is why is this being done and what good is there in it?
[00:06:51] Why is it better than what we're doing now?
[00:06:54] And then secondly, how's it going to look when everything's in full array when it's implemented?
[00:07:00] And how that's going to affect me personally?
[00:07:02] So it's almost like you got to do a little homework.
[00:07:05] You got to do mental homework as well.
[00:07:08] Before you go and try to put on the face or be the communicator of this information back to your employees,
[00:07:14] not only wrestle with a little bit yourself, but it sounds like if those two questions are unanswered for you,
[00:07:18] the how and the why.
[00:07:19] For me personally?
[00:07:20] Yeah, for you personally.
[00:07:21] You need to go find out whether that means you have a dialogue upward to find out that information.
[00:07:25] But it sounds like to me what you're saying is make sure you get those answers, those questions answered first
[00:07:31] before you then go try to put on the communication front with your employees.
[00:07:35] Absolutely.
[00:07:36] And I think that's an excellent point.
[00:07:37] You're going to have to take the lead as that leader.
[00:07:39] If you're aware of the fact that I don't have enough information about this to be supportive or not,
[00:07:43] or to counter my lack of support, you go find it out.
[00:07:46] And that's tough for some people to do.
[00:07:48] They go up the line and say, why is a company doing this?
[00:07:51] Because they take it as a challenge sometimes.
[00:07:53] But you know, be it as it is, that's fine.
[00:07:56] But I'm a firm believer, Alan, that it's impossible for someone to support or even embrace something different
[00:08:03] if they don't first understand it.
[00:08:05] Well, I'm going to say I know there's a lot of people that probably on a very gut reaction to things
[00:08:11] when something happens, they're going to go and tell their team, talk to their employees and say,
[00:08:15] I don't know why this is going on.
[00:08:17] I don't know why they did it, but here's the deal.
[00:08:19] And I guess we got to suck it up and do it.
[00:08:21] That doesn't really help the situation at all.
[00:08:23] It doesn't.
[00:08:24] You owe it to yourself as a leader to go and get those questions answered.
[00:08:27] Because if you're asking those questions, there's probably other leaders throughout your organization
[00:08:32] asking the exact same questions as well.
[00:08:34] But here's also the other thing that helps you do.
[00:08:36] And this is a good thing.
[00:08:37] I'm glad you brought this up because if I'm feeling some angst about trying to support something
[00:08:42] that I don't personally support, but I do take the lead, work through my own disagreements with it
[00:08:47] and the process of doing so, I do take the lead and go to somebody and say,
[00:08:50] why?
[00:08:51] What does it look like?
[00:08:52] You know, how's it going to affect people?
[00:08:54] I need some answers to things.
[00:08:55] Because I need to translate that to other people.
[00:08:57] Boy, what it does is get you out of a hole.
[00:09:00] Because you can then go to your staff and say,
[00:09:02] you've heard it announced at such and such and such.
[00:09:04] Let me tell you what I've learned about this.
[00:09:06] Yes.
[00:09:07] And you're dealing with just facts.
[00:09:08] That sounds really good.
[00:09:09] And you're just a pass-through of needed information to people.
[00:09:12] That's right.
[00:09:13] All right?
[00:09:14] And people will look to you if you're one of those lockable leaders we talked about before
[00:09:17] and they trust you because you're saying they're going to say,
[00:09:20] okay, that's fine.
[00:09:21] All right?
[00:09:22] You know, Stephen Covey in one of these great books,
[00:09:24] and I think it was Principal Settle Leadership said that managers,
[00:09:27] excuse me, leaders manage four things.
[00:09:29] And we said this before in one of our podcast.
[00:09:31] And I love it.
[00:09:32] Leaders manage four things.
[00:09:33] They manage people's attention, which this fits right here.
[00:09:37] Absolutely.
[00:09:38] Secondly, they manage the meaning of things,
[00:09:40] which this also fits this scenario.
[00:09:42] They manage trusting relationships, which also fit.
[00:09:45] And they manage themselves.
[00:09:46] Look at all four of those and how they apply to this situation
[00:09:49] that Marissa Myers has put her people into.
[00:09:52] Okay?
[00:09:53] Here are leaders.
[00:09:54] It's almost like a good test of leadership in a way to see how the leaders
[00:09:56] respond to racing it or not.
[00:09:58] I've worked it all day and I've gotten those answers.
[00:10:00] Then I'm going to people and then I can simply deal with facts.
[00:10:03] Here's what I know.
[00:10:05] Here's what I now understand.
[00:10:07] Let me feel you in.
[00:10:08] Now, are you in favor of if a leader has done their homework
[00:10:12] and they did their research, they did their asking the questions
[00:10:14] and they got all the information they needed,
[00:10:16] the house and the wise and everything else.
[00:10:18] They go and communicate what's happening to their staff.
[00:10:20] And as staff person raises their hand says,
[00:10:23] do you agree with this decision?
[00:10:25] Yeah.
[00:10:26] Even though you know down deep you don't,
[00:10:27] you mentioned honesty a little bit ago.
[00:10:29] But you also mentioned that now that we're kind of being the
[00:10:32] portrayer of facts, how do you feel about that?
[00:10:35] Should a leader say, no, I don't personally agree with this,
[00:10:38] but this is the direction we're going and we're going to all
[00:10:41] get together and support it and move forward with it?
[00:10:43] Or do you put on a fake front and say, yes, absolutely.
[00:10:46] If that's what the company wants to do,
[00:10:48] I think it's in the best interest.
[00:10:49] Right.
[00:10:50] Where do you go?
[00:10:51] What not to do is easier to answer that question
[00:10:52] and you never lie.
[00:10:53] All right.
[00:10:54] Okay, so you don't say, yeah, support it when you don't
[00:10:56] agree with it.
[00:10:57] This is great and this is where we're going.
[00:10:58] What's wrong with you?
[00:10:59] Because you don't like it.
[00:11:00] No, you don't tell you that.
[00:11:01] Should you say I don't personally agree with it?
[00:11:02] Yes, you should.
[00:11:03] Okay.
[00:11:04] Or you can say things like on a gut level personally for me
[00:11:07] have some problems with this.
[00:11:08] All right.
[00:11:09] But then you've got to use that but because you've already
[00:11:11] done your homework and you've gotten enough information
[00:11:13] to share with people with regards to how you feel about
[00:11:15] it.
[00:11:16] Right.
[00:11:17] But you can say to them, you know,
[00:11:18] on a personal gut level, I have some reservations
[00:11:20] about this.
[00:11:21] I really do.
[00:11:22] And that's what hit me first when I heard it.
[00:11:23] Like we should all do, I needed to understand why and how
[00:11:26] that's going to look and how it's going to affect me
[00:11:28] and others that I'm responsible for.
[00:11:30] And here's what I've learned folks and it's helping
[00:11:32] me come to grips with this decision.
[00:11:34] And if I can't agree with it, I know I should support
[00:11:38] it because it's getting us to a better place for these
[00:11:40] reasons.
[00:11:41] Okay.
[00:11:42] That sounds really good.
[00:11:43] All right.
[00:11:44] So you basically able to kind of play both sides.
[00:11:45] I mean, I hate, it sounds a little fake to say
[00:11:47] that but you are kind of playing both sides.
[00:11:49] You're able to be honest, tell her how you feel
[00:11:51] personally.
[00:11:52] But also making it very clear that your personal
[00:11:54] opinion is separate from what the organization
[00:11:57] feels like is the best move to go forward.
[00:12:00] And it's okay.
[00:12:01] Imagine this situation.
[00:12:03] Suppose you're a director level person, middle
[00:12:05] level leader and hopefully an effective and even
[00:12:08] likeable leader but you're in front of your group
[00:12:10] of 40 employees or 30 employees or whatever type
[00:12:12] of thing you have and you're announcing this
[00:12:13] to people and that question does come up.
[00:12:15] Okay, Tony.
[00:12:16] Fine.
[00:12:17] I hear you but do you agree with this thing?
[00:12:19] Yeah.
[00:12:20] And you're putting out awkward situation.
[00:12:21] So what model your responses around what we
[00:12:23] typically see on from politicians and others
[00:12:25] on the news and everything else where they
[00:12:27] dance around and give you anything but an answer.
[00:12:30] Very bothers me so much on all these news
[00:12:32] programs so then a reporter or somebody
[00:12:34] ask a direct question that's a yes or no
[00:12:36] answer or whatever and the person dances
[00:12:39] all around the report has come back and say
[00:12:41] but what I asked was, you know,
[00:12:43] so get right to it if there's a
[00:12:45] lackability factor in a leader good leadership
[00:12:47] position is always has some of that
[00:12:49] and they've developed and you develop trust
[00:12:51] with them.
[00:12:52] You can honestly say to them, you know,
[00:12:54] I've got some problems with it but here's
[00:12:56] what I've learned and it's helping me come
[00:12:58] to grips with a little bit better.
[00:13:00] I'm not there yet but I can see how it's
[00:13:02] going to affect us and here's how we're
[00:13:04] going to address this in our work unit
[00:13:06] that we got control over.
[00:13:07] That's great phrasing right there.
[00:13:08] That's the phrasing to use.
[00:13:09] I think if I heard somebody in front of
[00:13:11] me sharing that news and giving me
[00:13:13] that level of verbiage to me that's
[00:13:15] telling me he's being honest.
[00:13:16] I can trust him but he's also
[00:13:18] got to be honest.
[00:13:19] We can't just react to things.
[00:13:20] We've also got to go out there and ask
[00:13:22] questions and research and learn about
[00:13:24] it and trust that there is a greater
[00:13:26] vision for where we're trying to go.
[00:13:27] Right, right.
[00:13:28] Okay.
[00:13:29] There's this whole movement I won't say
[00:13:31] a movement.
[00:13:32] No, it's just wrong to say that and I
[00:13:34] hope it's not a movement.
[00:13:35] I hope it's just an awareness growing
[00:13:37] awareness that some super leaders
[00:13:39] and I'd say super leaders are those in
[00:13:41] the high profile.
[00:13:42] Sure.
[00:13:43] General Petraeus, you know, and his
[00:13:45] affairs and that type of thing.
[00:13:47] I'm starting back with Bill Clinton
[00:13:48] or whatever, eventually saying, you know,
[00:13:50] yeah, I did that or whatever.
[00:13:52] There is this sense that it's a good
[00:13:55] thing to be honest and to fess up.
[00:13:57] Right?
[00:13:58] And admit fallibilities and things
[00:14:00] like that.
[00:14:01] And I think this falls in that category
[00:14:02] when you're approached by your staff
[00:14:03] and say where are you on this?
[00:14:05] And say I'm not there yet in support
[00:14:07] but here's what I know and I'm
[00:14:08] working towards that because I know
[00:14:09] we're going to do it and I don't
[00:14:11] want our having to do these things
[00:14:13] to be out of drudgery and harmful
[00:14:15] to us and our work that we do every day.
[00:14:17] So I'm trying to look at how we get
[00:14:19] beyond it, how we work it for us
[00:14:21] and our benefit.
[00:14:22] I think if your people can see you
[00:14:23] struggling with the same things
[00:14:24] that they are but struggling towards
[00:14:26] not necessarily acceptance but
[00:14:28] understanding, I think that's a
[00:14:30] worthwhile thing.
[00:14:31] I think that's an abnormal trait.
[00:14:32] All right.
[00:14:33] Yeah.
[00:14:34] So it's okay to let them see you
[00:14:35] maybe be a bit conflicted.
[00:14:37] Yeah.
[00:14:38] And to have your emotions out there
[00:14:39] and letting people know how
[00:14:40] you're feeling about it.
[00:14:41] But the end message it sounds like
[00:14:42] still needs to be this is where
[00:14:44] the organization is going.
[00:14:45] Yep.
[00:14:46] I've asked my questions and this is
[00:14:47] what I've understood to be the
[00:14:48] reasoning.
[00:14:49] This is why we need to support it.
[00:14:51] See that to me is a real role of a
[00:14:53] leader is how you translate things
[00:14:54] to people.
[00:14:55] Mm-hmm.
[00:14:56] All right.
[00:14:57] You translate a vision, you
[00:14:58] translate the changes that have
[00:14:59] been announced or whatever to
[00:15:00] people in terms that speak to
[00:15:02] where they're coming from.
[00:15:03] That's being empathetic like
[00:15:04] we talked about being a
[00:15:05] likable leader that is being
[00:15:07] in terms of getting in their
[00:15:09] shoes but also I think that
[00:15:11] what we have to do to bring
[00:15:13] that around full circle is the
[00:15:15] other part of announcing to
[00:15:17] staff and being honest in your
[00:15:19] answers is you have to do some
[00:15:20] questioning of them.
[00:15:21] Mm-hmm.
[00:15:22] A great way not around this
[00:15:24] honesty issue but if somebody
[00:15:25] were to say are you in favor of
[00:15:26] this, you go along with this,
[00:15:27] first be honest and say what
[00:15:29] you're doing to try to
[00:15:30] understand and so on and so forth
[00:15:32] and where you are right now
[00:15:33] with it.
[00:15:34] But then turn it back to them
[00:15:35] and say look guys I know you
[00:15:36] got feelings about this.
[00:15:37] What's driving your
[00:15:38] disagreement right now?
[00:15:39] Sure.
[00:15:40] What's behind that?
[00:15:41] What's bothering you about
[00:15:42] this?
[00:15:43] I think that makes you a problem
[00:15:44] sour for your people.
[00:15:45] Okay.
[00:15:46] Because I'm a firm believer that
[00:15:47] good leaders shape thinking as
[00:15:49] well as performance.
[00:15:50] And I was actually going to
[00:15:51] comment too just on the same
[00:15:52] note, I think it's really
[00:15:53] important for a leader in
[00:15:54] this situation after they
[00:15:55] communicated the messages
[00:15:56] they need to communicate
[00:15:57] really open up that dialogue
[00:15:59] and questions from employees.
[00:16:00] I think a leader who comes
[00:16:01] up and says okay so that's
[00:16:03] the situation what kind of
[00:16:04] questions do you guys have?
[00:16:05] Yep.
[00:16:06] And really entertaining the
[00:16:07] questions not doing it as a
[00:16:09] you've got 10 seconds and I'll
[00:16:11] answer one or two questions
[00:16:12] and then I'm done.
[00:16:13] Yeah.
[00:16:14] More of a let's really have a
[00:16:15] dialogue about it.
[00:16:16] Create a dialogue.
[00:16:17] And if there are some things
[00:16:18] that you have questions about
[00:16:19] that I can't answer, I'll do
[00:16:20] my best to go get the best
[00:16:21] answer I can for you.
[00:16:22] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:23] You know.
[00:16:24] And the dialogue creates
[00:16:25] opportunities for exchange.
[00:16:26] Right.
[00:16:27] You know transfer of
[00:16:28] knowledge between one person
[00:16:29] and another because a lot of
[00:16:30] times people will start
[00:16:31] believing something being
[00:16:33] against it or for it.
[00:16:34] Not based on where they're
[00:16:35] coming from themselves
[00:16:36] or they actually have formed
[00:16:37] an opinion but what they
[00:16:38] hear the most talked about
[00:16:39] by their colleagues.
[00:16:40] And if I hear 15 people that
[00:16:42] I work around every day being
[00:16:43] against something, I'm thinking
[00:16:44] well I guess I am too.
[00:16:45] Yep, absolutely.
[00:16:46] Well I understand it or not?
[00:16:48] Well and going back to this
[00:16:49] Yahoo example I'm sure some of
[00:16:51] the employees who were already
[00:16:53] working in the main campus
[00:16:54] already working in the
[00:16:55] buildings in an office
[00:16:56] environment but had friends
[00:16:57] who were working remotely
[00:16:59] heard the grousing and
[00:17:00] the people upset there.
[00:17:01] Yep.
[00:17:02] They're probably going to
[00:17:03] some of them will probably
[00:17:04] jump on board and say
[00:17:05] well yeah that was a bad
[00:17:06] decision because it's
[00:17:07] affecting these other
[00:17:08] individuals.
[00:17:09] And you've got to help remove
[00:17:10] some of the emotion and
[00:17:11] individual personality
[00:17:12] issues from it.
[00:17:13] Right.
[00:17:14] And be a leader and help
[00:17:15] everybody see the vision for
[00:17:16] it even if you don't agree
[00:17:17] with the decision itself.
[00:17:18] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:17:19] It's you know there's a couple
[00:17:20] of things Alan I think you
[00:17:21] know you started off and
[00:17:22] said what do you do as a
[00:17:23] leader?
[00:17:24] Right.
[00:17:25] To support something vocally
[00:17:26] to people that you personally
[00:17:28] support right now.
[00:17:30] I agree with.
[00:17:31] And so we talked about a
[00:17:32] couple of things that you
[00:17:33] should do first is wrestle
[00:17:34] with your own position
[00:17:35] and understand where you're
[00:17:36] coming from first and try to
[00:17:38] get answers to the two
[00:17:40] important questions of how
[00:17:41] on the line.
[00:17:42] And do that before you go
[00:17:43] run off to your staff and
[00:17:44] blow a gasket or act on a
[00:17:47] gut reaction.
[00:17:48] That's right.
[00:17:49] The second thing is you have
[00:17:50] to be honest and candid
[00:17:52] upfront.
[00:17:53] Never cross that line when
[00:17:55] talking with your staff and
[00:17:56] don't evade their questions
[00:17:57] about you answer them
[00:17:58] directly.
[00:17:59] You know if they ask you
[00:18:00] are you for it?
[00:18:01] Tell them yes or no you
[00:18:02] know and for why is
[00:18:03] trying to wrestle with
[00:18:04] this and you seek
[00:18:05] understanding of the
[00:18:06] change or problem or
[00:18:07] whatever has been
[00:18:08] implemented.
[00:18:09] Try to find at least one
[00:18:10] thing of value.
[00:18:11] It may not be
[00:18:12] significant and may not be
[00:18:13] the driving force but find
[00:18:14] one thing of value and
[00:18:15] you can also say to
[00:18:16] your staff here's what
[00:18:17] I discovered so far.
[00:18:18] I don't like most of this
[00:18:19] but I do like this part
[00:18:20] because that's going to do
[00:18:21] such and such for us as
[00:18:22] well.
[00:18:23] And you need to be able
[00:18:25] to translate that to
[00:18:26] people articulately.
[00:18:27] Remember the two words
[00:18:29] key words that we talked
[00:18:30] about honesty and the
[00:18:31] word but.
[00:18:32] But I think there are
[00:18:34] also some things that
[00:18:35] we shouldn't do.
[00:18:36] Can I give you a couple of
[00:18:37] those?
[00:18:38] If you're opposed to this
[00:18:39] situation again and
[00:18:40] again you're in front of
[00:18:41] people or whatever else.
[00:18:42] The first thing you do is
[00:18:43] never, never, ever act
[00:18:45] just like a neutered
[00:18:47] carrier pigeon.
[00:18:48] Were you getting in front
[00:18:49] of your group and say
[00:18:50] hey don't blame me I'm
[00:18:52] just telling you what they
[00:18:53] told me to tell you.
[00:18:54] I'm passing the information
[00:18:55] but I'm trying to distance
[00:18:56] myself from it as much
[00:18:57] as possible.
[00:18:58] The company line is
[00:18:59] and then if you're
[00:19:00] spouting off company line
[00:19:01] and not sincere about it
[00:19:02] and not believing it
[00:19:03] and somebody says where are
[00:19:04] you on this and you're
[00:19:05] on the line and your
[00:19:06] response is simply roll
[00:19:07] your eyes and say I'm on
[00:19:08] board as you roll your
[00:19:09] eyes.
[00:19:10] I mean you're lying
[00:19:11] through your teeth.
[00:19:12] So never act like a
[00:19:13] neutered and impotent
[00:19:15] carrier of.
[00:19:16] This poor carrier pigeon.
[00:19:17] Poor carrier pigeon.
[00:19:18] Gee whiz I can think
[00:19:19] of all kinds of.
[00:19:20] There's a lot of different
[00:19:21] answers here.
[00:19:22] I didn't know we did
[00:19:23] that to pigeons but
[00:19:24] okay.
[00:19:25] But a carrier pigeon
[00:19:26] basically takes a message
[00:19:27] from somewhere and
[00:19:28] deposits it on somebody
[00:19:29] else.
[00:19:30] It takes no ownership of
[00:19:31] it.
[00:19:32] So you don't do that.
[00:19:33] The second thing I
[00:19:34] don't displace blame.
[00:19:35] If there's blame to be
[00:19:36] shared because you're part
[00:19:37] of it except it.
[00:19:38] But otherwise just
[00:19:39] say hey hey don't look
[00:19:40] to me.
[00:19:41] Don't look to me.
[00:19:42] These guys make that
[00:19:43] decision why they made
[00:19:44] I don't know.
[00:19:45] I don't know ask them
[00:19:46] and that's so divisive
[00:19:47] in an organization.
[00:19:48] I mean I don't think
[00:19:49] people realize the harm
[00:19:50] that kind of messaging
[00:19:51] does when trying to get
[00:19:52] teams to all work
[00:19:53] together and try to
[00:19:54] depend on each other.
[00:19:55] If you've got a
[00:19:56] leader who's basically
[00:19:57] creating a divide
[00:19:58] by saying it wasn't us
[00:19:59] it was those guys up
[00:20:00] there.
[00:20:01] Yeah.
[00:20:02] I'm not going to
[00:20:03] say that.
[00:20:04] I'm not going to say that
[00:20:05] there.
[00:20:06] Yep.
[00:20:07] That makes it so tough
[00:20:08] to reconcile and
[00:20:09] get around the same page.
[00:20:10] But it also is
[00:20:11] it kind of starts
[00:20:12] to use one of those
[00:20:13] neutered words.
[00:20:14] What it does is
[00:20:15] incapacitate you as a
[00:20:16] leader in their eyes
[00:20:17] too.
[00:20:18] The
[00:20:19] incapacitated
[00:20:20] can't
[00:20:21] answer.
[00:20:22] He's not going to
[00:20:23] have your answers.
[00:20:24] He's going to put
[00:20:25] on somebody else.
[00:20:26] Incapacitate is
[00:20:27] better work.
[00:20:28] And the third thing
[00:20:29] that you should
[00:20:30] never do we've always
[00:20:31] said it never lie.
[00:20:32] Your side stepping
[00:20:33] your faith.
[00:20:34] What is a lie.
[00:20:35] Well you know
[00:20:36] our last episode
[00:20:37] I believe was
[00:20:38] the one when we talked
[00:20:39] about likeability
[00:20:40] and we talked about
[00:20:41] honesty and truth
[00:20:42] being a likeable aspect
[00:20:43] of leadership.
[00:20:44] And if
[00:20:45] you're facing a situation
[00:20:46] where your likeability
[00:20:47] could be challenged
[00:20:48] because of a decision
[00:20:49] like this
[00:20:50] I agree on what you said
[00:20:51] I think honesty
[00:20:52] is a way to make sure
[00:20:53] that you've still got
[00:20:54] that.
[00:20:55] People may be able
[00:20:56] to walk away from it
[00:20:57] and say well I don't
[00:20:58] agree with what he said
[00:20:59] but he was honest.
[00:21:00] He told us
[00:21:01] that he's not going to
[00:21:02] respect that.
[00:21:03] Absolutely that's
[00:21:04] where the respect comes
[00:21:05] in.
[00:21:06] Good point.
[00:21:07] Absolutely.
[00:21:08] Good.
[00:21:09] All right so those of you
[00:21:10] at Yahoo right now
[00:21:11] you know what to do
[00:21:12] I gave you some advice
[00:21:13] we also told you
[00:21:14] what not to do
[00:21:15] there again regardless
[00:21:16] of how you feel about
[00:21:17] the kind of decisions
[00:21:18] that or any other company
[00:21:19] make as leaders
[00:21:20] we've got a responsibility
[00:21:21] to communicate
[00:21:22] to do our own research
[00:21:23] to be honest
[00:21:24] and to share
[00:21:25] what we need to share
[00:21:26] in a very collaborative
[00:21:27] open forum
[00:21:28] to do that.
[00:21:30] Come to the Jackson Group
[00:21:32] and drive leadership
[00:21:33] we won't hire you
[00:21:34] but we hope you feel better
[00:21:35] about your decision.
[00:21:36] I guess I should put
[00:21:37] a disclaimer on this.
[00:21:38] I should say you know
[00:21:39] publicly giving
[00:21:40] your honest opinion
[00:21:41] about a corporate decision
[00:21:42] you know it can be
[00:21:43] a little tricky
[00:21:44] but it is the right thing
[00:21:45] to do.
[00:21:46] If you're coming from
[00:21:47] the right place
[00:21:48] at the right time
[00:21:49] with the right information
[00:21:50] just to be honest
[00:21:51] yeah that's right.
[00:21:52] All right good
[00:21:53] well great good conversation
[00:21:54] I thought that was
[00:21:55] just a nice time
[00:21:56] topic we could bring up
[00:21:57] again some background
[00:21:58] information here
[00:21:59] thejaxinggroup.com
[00:22:00] that's the Jackson Group
[00:22:02] all spelled out.com
[00:22:03] is where you can learn
[00:22:04] a little bit more
[00:22:05] about what we do
[00:22:06] in the world of
[00:22:07] employee engagement
[00:22:08] employee commitment
[00:22:09] patient and customer
[00:22:10] loyalty
[00:22:11] all those areas
[00:22:12] of surveying
[00:22:13] and consulting
[00:22:14] on the results of those
[00:22:15] driveleadership.com
[00:22:16] is where you can
[00:22:17] learn a little bit
[00:22:18] more about the drive
[00:22:19] leadership process
[00:22:20] that Tony's involved with
[00:22:21] and taking
[00:22:22] moving people from
[00:22:23] managers to leaders
[00:22:24] and those are
[00:22:25] the two companies
[00:22:26] you can check out
[00:22:27] and listen to
[00:22:28] old episodes
[00:22:29] of leadership GPS
[00:22:30] as well as check out
[00:22:31] other shows that we have
[00:22:32] on the network
[00:22:33] we've got a great customer
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[00:22:37] the CAPS process
[00:22:38] which for those of you
[00:22:39] in healthcare
[00:22:40] know what that is
[00:22:41] but talking about
[00:22:42] patient satisfaction
[00:22:43] in the healthcare arena
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[00:23:17] fill it out
[00:23:18] drop us a note
[00:23:19] let us know
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[00:23:21] about our topic
[00:23:22] maybe ideas for future topics
[00:23:23] anything else
[00:23:24] we'd love to hear from you
[00:23:25] we're going to wrap it up
[00:23:26] dad thank you so much
[00:23:27] thank you
[00:23:28] that's a great
[00:23:29] invigorating question
[00:23:30] to be posed with
[00:23:31] I enjoyed that very much
[00:23:32] and just a reminder
[00:23:33] to all you listeners out there
[00:23:34] and the listener in the land
[00:23:35] if this dialogue
[00:23:36] that we had about
[00:23:37] this very timely topic
[00:23:38] was of interest to you
[00:23:39] go back and find the one
[00:23:41] on those sources
[00:23:42] that Alan mentioned to you
[00:23:43] on The Mesh
[00:23:44] about like leaders
[00:23:46] and the other L word
[00:23:47] I think we called it right
[00:23:48] likeability
[00:23:49] now tie in neatly
[00:23:51] to what we're talking about
[00:23:52] here today
[00:23:53] and it's about 50 minutes long
[00:23:55] so kick back
[00:23:56] and sit down
[00:23:57] and have that glass of tea
[00:23:59] or cup of tea
[00:24:00] or cocktail
[00:24:01] whatever you need to get through
[00:24:02] 50 minutes of us talking
[00:24:03] and listen to it
[00:24:04] it goes quick
[00:24:05] very nice
[00:24:06] anyway they link together
[00:24:07] really well
[00:24:08] absolutely
[00:24:09] great
[00:24:10] all right
[00:24:11] well we're going to wrap it up
[00:24:12] for this episode of leadership
[00:24:13] GPS
[00:24:14] thanks so much for listening
[00:24:15] and we'll talk to you next time
[00:24:16] take care
[00:24:26] you've been listening
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