”The DO NOT’s of Business” with Julia and Ray Campbell, Campbell Design

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[00:01:01] startups and small business with ideas tools and advice to operate your business more effectively on today's show. We're tired of telling you what to do, so today we'll be telling you what NOT to do. Business owners, Ray and Julia Campbell are joining me on

[00:01:17] to become a company to share their list of what not to do in business. Plus, we'll have a lightning round and we'll share some interesting small businesses that you should be checking out in our small business of the month feature at the end of the podcast. My

[00:01:30] name is Jeff Newville. I'm your co-host. I'm director of the Manufacturing Solutions Center at Cotalk Valley Community College in Hickory, North Carolina. I'm joined by my co-host Gary Muller who is executive dean of economic development and continuing education at Cot Valley Community College. Gary, how are you doing?

[00:01:48] Jeff, I'm doing great. You got my title right. Did I? I was really by accident. It was perfect. It's a moving target. Well that's what it says. Well now we can say yours is moving target and congratulations on your promotion and new job responsibilities. Thank you very much.

[00:02:04] How's it going? It's a learning curve that I'm getting to meet and work with many interesting people as we're working in opening a new building that's going to be outstanding. We look forward to having you and you over and sharing information with all of our listeners because

[00:02:18] we're doing some exciting stuff. You've had good practice working with interesting people since we were office neighbors. Well, no. We don't want to admit that. I'm sorry. Well, you've been a good neighbor. So I'm sorry to be moving out of your building but exciting things going on.

[00:02:35] But we're excited to have with us today. Julia and Ray Campbell. Julia and Ray, how are you guys doing? Doing good? In great. Thanks for being with us. We appreciate you guys joining the program today and a little bit about Ray and Julia.

[00:02:50] They have their small business owners. They own a business called Campbell Design which is located in Newton, North Carolina. They specialize in designing building, commercial buildings. And we sort of mentioned that my organization, manufacturing solutions centers opening a new building. They designed that building.

[00:03:12] I guess you guys designed the first building that I'm currently working at of a major different solutions center. We do it. What a small world. That's small world. And the block of buildings right there. And you guys have been in business for over 20 years? Correct.

[00:03:28] Be 23 this year in October. All right. Fantastic. And yet you're still here. Yeah, you showed that people married can work together and survive. Whereas Ray hasn't said much. Yeah, so that's the secret. By the way. OK. Everything OK in your end, Ray. Yes. We're good.

[00:03:49] I know the manufacturing solutions center pretty well. After probably over 1,800 hours working on it. Well, and then you guys have done a lot more than that. And focus primarily on commercial things. I've you've churches, buildings, restaurants, factories. Factories. Yeah. So you guys, you stay busy.

[00:04:10] Business has been great. We cannot complain right now about the way the business environment is in the architecture field. Lots of construction going on. Sometimes it seems like it's more difficult to find people to actually execute the drawings that perhaps you come up with.

[00:04:26] That's a common problem right now in the architecture field in the construction field. Well, we're pleased that you're able to join us. And I've had the opportunity to work with you guys. Some in the past you've actually been on our podcast before.

[00:04:41] But today what we wanted to talk with is as you guys sort of had some thoughts on based on your experience. You know, just sort of, I don't usually when you're in I talk about major problems and business we talk about, oh, don't run out of cash.

[00:04:58] You know, don't do crazy things. But you guys have to sort of just found things that maybe a little bit more subtle, I would say, then some of the bigger things that people might see out there. You know, we said, oh, your cash is coming.

[00:05:13] You got to get out of it. But you guys just working with people on a daily basis to found some things that some might qualify as irritants. Some could have some significant negative impact on a business if you fall in the trap.

[00:05:27] So you guys have put together Ray and Julia's list of things not to do in business. So why don't we jump into some of what you guys see is pitfalls out there? That was a good summation of that.

[00:05:42] We were invited to high point university to give a lecture and on the drive over there, we were like, well, what are we going to tell this class? And we came up with, why don't we tell them what not to do because everybody tells them what to do?

[00:05:52] And most people when you tell them something to do it, just kind of goes in one ear and out the other and it's really boring. Like, do this and do this and they were all writing notes and you forget everything.

[00:06:02] I said, yeah, I would think on one of the what not to do is think was if you're asked to give a speech at a university perhaps you should work on it before you get in the car and

[00:06:12] buy it over there. But that's me. Yeah. Well, we had an average of drive to get up there. So, and this has been an ongoing list that has developed as we have owned small businesses

[00:06:23] and as a small business you hire employees and you deal with other small businesses. And a lot of these other small businesses, you don't have all the resources and you're swinging it in your entrepreneurs. And so these are things that maybe you just

[00:06:36] think about because you're so busy on the day to day things that you do. So we could start in like what not to do in business and the first one on this is raised number one

[00:06:45] pet pee. Don't sign your emails. Well, as in you should sign your emails. That's a pet pee that if you don't sign your emails you're screwing up. Absolutely. So I'm going to be sort of

[00:06:57] your bad guy here or like what not to do. But yeah, don't sign your emails because nobody needs to know who you are and make sure that your email has absolutely nothing to do with

[00:07:07] you or your business. So when you say don't sign your emails, are you saying don't put Jeff at the end or I should have like a signature line or all the above.

[00:07:18] But if your nickname is Bubba and you sign your emails that way and no one knows who you're because your email is you know William Smith at awell.com people don't know who they who you are.

[00:07:33] How did you know your nickname? Bubba. Well I look like a Bubba. I know it drives me crazy when we have 14 projects going on and someone will just sign their email

[00:07:44] Jeff and I have to coordinate with 12 other people to get your job going and they just don't know who Jeff is. Is it Jeff? Novel is it Jeff Smith? Is it Jeff Taylor? Who isn't?

[00:07:55] But if you're if you're ordering a pizza with your buddy, it's fine to say Jeff. If you're trying to generate income on a thin air, it is not fine to say Jeff. I would think that you want to make it

[00:08:07] easy for people to find you and get back to you. I am shocked that people who don't have salaries and are trying to create money out of thin air as how I call it would just communicate in a business

[00:08:20] manner with just Jeff. Well a lot of what we do, we do a lot of referrals if somebody calls up and says we don't we do zero residential work that is not what we do but if we do residential work

[00:08:31] we will give people out there and other people's information who we know and if I don't have any kind of contact number, now I'm very wants to communicate via email either. Some people want to

[00:08:41] text some people want to make a phone call but you got to have that information because you know where do you find Campbell design is on every single signature of what we said and then if you send your

[00:08:51] signature in it's all full of a whole lot of little pictures well then we think we've got to attach with some projects so you know some of these are it's stuff it's simple it's stupid

[00:09:00] but half the by said it up on your phone because you'll have it at work but having it on your work computer and not on your phone. I'm not thinking about frustrating trying to you want to call that

[00:09:09] person or kind of you can't forget their name to someone else. Because all of them your response will fill in the gaps where they left. But we are all in networking maybe we network

[00:09:20] work referral business I've got to find your staff. So sort of side note, side note question I mean what's what how do you respond if you get an email from Jeff at Yahoo.com or gmail.com

[00:09:34] as opposed to at Campbell design. You know having having that your your name and the business is that value or or that doesn't about like I have various interiors which is my commercial design side

[00:09:46] ad gmail.com guess what there's name in my company. Yeah and I know during a project if if we're gonna take a project be hired for a project and there's going to be 500 more emails

[00:09:59] I just say to people in some of these meetings look in the subject line we have to put the name of the project and for those of you who I'm having to start to do this for those of you who are

[00:10:09] just signing your emails with your first name we need you to start during the course of this project to sign it. There's a lot of people involved in everybody I want to be able to contact each other

[00:10:18] so that's really where we're coming from on this one. It's weird that I have to ask that. So that's your number one pet pee. That's my number one. I don't care. Of what not to do in business. All right. So what's what's number two on your list?

[00:10:33] Drinking to access with people you're doing business with. And I assume we're not talking coffee here. If, well, sometimes you really do not need to give me any more coffee that doesn't work out

[00:10:48] real well either. That's more of a joy issue I suspect. But drinking, you know, we have one legal drug, we're in North Carolina. It's alcohol. And this is so much businesses done around

[00:11:03] meeting people. You know, you meet customers in part. You meet people over dinner. And this is one of the things that we've just seen happen in a long run in our careers before we own our business.

[00:11:17] And right, he has a really good line on this one. I say that two drinks can close a deal and two more you can lose the deal. You got to be very careful, very savvy when it comes to alcohol and clients.

[00:11:31] And it sounds really stupid and we all know about it. And we all have everybody here probably has a story of what somebody did. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. I really can't remember.

[00:11:43] I tell him so you were the problem in the meeting then. So yeah and I suspect we've been sometimes I've been to trade shows and sometimes I almost feel like there's some expectation

[00:11:56] from my customers of, oh we're going to go out and have some drinks. Aren't we? You know that's on your expense account by the way. That's really on the top of the list of some of the things

[00:12:06] that have run through me of people going, oh you speak, going to me a con and hopefully there's no pictures taken of what happened. Yeah well, some of us are in age where we didn't

[00:12:20] all walk around with the phones that had camera capabilities. So yeah these days that could be a problem. The stories get really amusing and there's instances where you, you know you are kicking the person under the table or his boss. I mean just kicking them until their bruised

[00:12:39] like can you please shut this guy up? But I also that I had a situation where I went to launch with somebody and you know this is actually in my not that long ago where that person ordered

[00:12:57] to be here at lunch. But I enjoy beer but generally if I'm working I'm not going to be drinking beer while I'm working at lunch. You know I mean if I go to a networking event yeah I might

[00:13:10] have I probably will have a beer at five o'clock but they just you know I don't mean to be judging you but it just sort of felt a bit awkward to me if having you having been working with

[00:13:24] someone who is having to be at lunchtime that was just me maybe I'm approved. I don't know. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. It wasn't us here although it's always five o'clock somewhere in everybody's

[00:13:33] long but you know for those of us who've traveled I mean it's amazing like you get away from him and suddenly people were like well my husband's here my wife's not here who's going to know

[00:13:45] and somebody always knows and it always gets back. Is always somebody we know wasn't going to be there that's there. Yeah well I went in and most of the time we're you know particularly if you're a small business owner you're pretty much always representing your business

[00:14:00] your person and you know even even if you're on vacation you got to be a little I'm sure you got a little bit wary. Well you never know who you're going to run into you can be in Vegas

[00:14:11] and run into your biggest customer just by chance and yeah what happens in Vegas hopefully we'll stay in Vegas but not always. Not always okay all right good advice I mean we're not saying

[00:14:24] that you can't have a drink but just you better be careful not to not to cross that line into it's very careful. Okay what is our third don't do this in business. Burn your bridges

[00:14:40] and you just think that you know you'll never meet these people or work with them again right and the first thing we say to every intern who walks through and we've had quite a few interns

[00:14:52] we've got one right now from Apple hatchet she's doing great um as you don't burn your bridges. We've moved from the triad here to the uniform and I am amazed at how many people we still

[00:15:06] run into that we knew back in the day and I had my situation was this I got laid all from a furniture dealer years ago and do you know how much I wanted to tell them what for the flip side of that

[00:15:21] is I ended up being their customer. So who got the last laugh out of that one? So you didn't go on the revenge tour. No but it's amazing how many people will have that revenge tour when they're done

[00:15:36] and how mad they are and it's like let it go because a lot of times hey that company's going to change people are going to change their and they may end up being your best customer. Yeah

[00:15:48] Well I think it's interesting when you put it in that perspective and how the roles can change and that you know often you can go from being an employee to a client, a customer, you know and

[00:16:02] maybe a supplier you never know. I mean you know if you're in a particular industry it can be rather tight knit so you better be careful you know and I'll go further in and

[00:16:16] this is just something that maybe because you know we're I was saying a rural area of North Carolina but we're not certainly not in an urban area but I've worked in many companies where

[00:16:29] unbeknownst to me relatives work together. You know so I mean you I know it's sort of maybe a little bit of a corollary to don't burn the bridges it's just when you're talking to people

[00:16:42] you need to be careful what you say because you know I might be saying if I'm saying something to Ray about Julia oh you two are married oh I didn't realize that or yeah yeah there are

[00:16:53] cousins or their nephews or you better be careful you might accidentally burn a bridge that you didn't even know that you burned if you're if you're not careful and you say inappropriate things it wouldn't. That happened to one of our staff who made a comment about a substitute

[00:17:08] that was in one day and didn't know it was the daughter of the person she was telling. Yeah I didn't get down real well. You're much better than that person that's usually here.

[00:17:21] Oh my mom. Yeah I was like she was just awful and all these things happened and I came back and it was just everything was a hot mess and it turned out to be his daughter. Okay yeah so

[00:17:33] that's not all through that one on top just because some of the industries I've worked in are very insistuous. Yep it's hard to deal with but it's it is true that like years later you can be

[00:17:46] faced with deals with that same person that you've once you hated and the deals could be worth you know a million a million a hundred a thousand millions a dollars and you're just your mind is

[00:17:58] blown and you're like oh my I'm glad I did not burn my bridge on it. But we've had that happen where you know relationships break down people leave then they come back and there's some of our best

[00:18:08] customers. Yeah so the general role is be careful yeah. Be careful sometimes it's just like if you're mad about it don't put it on social media. Oh yes okay because we early on we didn't all

[00:18:19] have this or all of that age so you just basically you know I just told you suck it up. I could get up a little bit may not be it and it won't feel good. Let it go and see what happens and sometimes

[00:18:33] it's two weeks later sometimes it's two years later that that person or somebody it changes and they come back to you. Yeah all right let's let's move on to your next don't do this what

[00:18:46] you got tell everybody who you're meeting with that their job is E.C. This is all you have to do and you only need to do this. There's are the three three words easy just and only

[00:19:03] and when we hear if our job was that easy why are you not doing it because you must think we're making so much money we didn't have to do anything we just press a button and bam it's done

[00:19:15] and we have a rule in our office if we're working on a job and we're interviewing and talking to somebody ever their potential project and they say oh it's easy you only have to do this.

[00:19:28] Every time there are a few squares and put a few catches in here and it's not going to be done right right or they told us over wherever that we only need to do this usually only in appendix

[00:19:40] be which is about 30 hours of work so every time you say those words guess what your fee goes up 10% every time and that came down from an engineer and we totally agreed with that.

[00:19:52] This is one that is another one that drives me crazy I'll be in meetings talking about these really complicated projects and moving dirt and tons of steel and putting it all together

[00:20:01] and there's always a guy using the word easy all you have to do you just do this and it's like are we talking about the same we're not talking about mowing your lawn here and they probably haven't

[00:20:13] done it and I had bothered me for months why are people doing this to me why are they telling me my job is easy my job is obviously not easy and so you know I found as if you

[00:20:26] you know a lot of times like they've delayed something so long that something they should have done last March and now it's November. Now it's a year later and November is approaching and they always

[00:20:38] do the same thing they pull the trigger November first and want it done by the end of the year and you're like oh my gosh but I think that that desperation you look across the table and say

[00:20:48] well you know I'm desperate to get this done so I'm gonna keep telling you how easy it is just five a day away yeah well what's the Steve Jobs quote that it's what so I struggled with

[00:21:02] this in one day I found this lost interview Steve Jobs on the internet and he answered this question for me he says there's this disease that people get that thinking that a good idea is 90

[00:21:14] percent of the work and then he went into explain why a good idea is not 90 percent of the work and I'm like that's what I've been struggling against so Jeff I don't want to burn any

[00:21:26] bridges I think we know somebody oh yeah it doesn't matter it doesn't matter before well I suspect we know many people that too so I just want to tie those two yeah okay

[00:21:37] well I think I think for us as design professionals and as business owners because you know we you know we also own our building and we leave building out it's like everybody I don't

[00:21:49] take it easy to have somebody put a roof on my building and if I looked at somebody who's roofing the building and say well all you gotta do is just put those shingles up and they're not talking

[00:21:59] about all the flashing and all the other work and how hard it is to get people it's a lack of respect it is perfect you know my father would tell me don't ever tell anybody their jobs

[00:22:11] easy I mean if a guy's known you're long do not tell him his job is easy well it's rude Gary and I struggled to change light bulbs so well you're a lot easier than that from us at this

[00:22:22] point in time so we're not the handy guys all right let's move on what else what's next on the list is don't research your company before you go and talk to them and this works on

[00:22:36] so many levels like walking the door hey I want to sell you and I don't care what it is that they're selling and I I sold furniture business to business and I get it but boy how many people

[00:22:49] who want to sell stuff to your company do zero research before they do it and this goes back to also interviewing for a position and I remember how hard it used to be to find anything out

[00:23:03] about a company you call your friend he might work there or you might go to the library and look it up if it's a fortune 500 company or you'd look in the newspaper and who is this now we have this

[00:23:14] magical thing called the internet where like if you want to know about Campbell design you put in Campbell design Newton and there's our Facebook page our Instagram our website all the other things

[00:23:27] that I don't necessarily know about but it's amazing how people don't research and what is their time and I you know throw a link down on that as well yeah you're gonna meet with somebody

[00:23:42] you know go on a lot of the link and then you can usually pick up a little bit of information about their background or their company and and as you said it's it's there's so much out there at this

[00:23:55] point in time it seems crazy that you don't spend all time doing the research I mean we do a lot of negotiating work with with general contractors and we have a real high level of comfort but if we

[00:24:05] know it's ex business that we're talking about like we just did some big additions from a query modern you know we'll go in there and we're gonna research who they are and what they're selling

[00:24:14] because we want to know their brand we want to know how can we do the best job possible in finding that information so I mean it's amazing to us though how people who even like

[00:24:26] yourself brick well what I said your architects what do you do literally you could sit in the parking lot and have a great idea as soon as you walk in these are the kind of projects you do oh my gosh

[00:24:37] I could get a great order out of this if I play my cards right I remember a story of I was an intern at an architecture firm and these people came into the lobby and they were selling perfume

[00:24:52] and I just looked at them kind of strange and I listened to their whole pitch and they stopped their pitch and I said do you realize this is an architecture firm that's like how are we gonna connect here

[00:25:04] oh yeah I said back to one of you saw yeah you're not gonna sell a lot of perfume they might sell you might sell a bottle you never know but you know you might just come on

[00:25:14] to street corners well so what's the difference again not doing research like we talked to our students all the time when they're interviewing no with the company on to don't go there and

[00:25:24] when they say so what do you know better companies and what we really don't know I didn't that's not well we've had an interest in walk out at that point we've had interns come in and like what do you know

[00:25:33] about us not really what do you want to do I want to do residential like why are you here yeah we don't need a lot of time but it's also just a lack of respect even well and here's another part

[00:25:44] of that not everybody's your client not we love just I mean we like I think it's part of learning how to do your business well what's profitable what's not not every not everybody's a Campbell

[00:25:57] design customer I mean that's what it comes down to and that is that's how you stay in business but not everybody is your customer if all you do is sell be is business to business door

[00:26:10] to door and I can said I used to do that nobody went to buy not everybody wanted to buy office furniture but I also knew when to get out but literally that's something to think about like what if you're

[00:26:21] selling office furniture why would you go over to a restaurant it doesn't make a lot of sense okay all right if you somebody you have sometimes it feels common sense to call but we need

[00:26:30] very mind people because we see it happen so often yeah I think we've all experienced this all right well we have next oh always be late or show up without an appointment that that's a pet pee for you

[00:26:44] is it oh yeah okay well some let's put it to you this way when we were talking earlier about how there's such a shortage of people every minute of our day is valuable and to show up and say

[00:26:58] well I have a new project for you you've disrupted the workflow for the day I'm not going to raise not going to be able to concentrate because he's in the middle of trying to finish what needed

[00:27:08] to go out today and while we want to talk to you working with an appointment gives us time to do what we go back to what we just talked about I get to research who you are we get to see what you need

[00:27:21] and so and just showing up or showing up late this is what I've told my interns I learned a lot in my internships of what not to do by examples that were really poor and so I had worked for somebody

[00:27:39] and I had it's a great internship with a big company in Winston Salem and my boss had a history of showing up an hour to an hour and a half late with the CEOs of these companies

[00:27:53] and I got to witness the CEO's secretary say well you you Mr. appointment he's got something else and he will not meet with you yeah again like a respect lack of respect well and I'm all a 25 and I'm like

[00:28:08] oh my gosh this is awful but it really showed me I mean it is lack of respect but I also showing up without an appointment so many businesses now you need to have an appointment because if you want

[00:28:20] you're on someone to give you their undivided attention respect their time go along with that all right all right what else what else do we have oh I want to hear about this the next one so

[00:28:35] what not to do oh it doesn't matter what you put on your social media that you did in high school or college no one's ever gonna find that out are they? No is this more of a generational thing or is

[00:28:50] this it works in all sides because I have seen adults people my age do some really dumb stuff because here's the thing even if you're even if you're gonna meet that way Jeff

[00:29:05] well we see this it's like if you're looking you know they we try to be pretty like non-political not you know all of these things that that is not necessarily what people want

[00:29:20] to see and don't think that people are not gonna look at yes we look at LinkedIn we're going to look at Instagram we're gonna look at Facebook are you talking in reference to if you might be

[00:29:32] interviewing hiring people talking with potential customers all the above and I don't think this is a generational thing at all I think everybody pretty much is on some sort of social media if they're

[00:29:45] not active they're at least you know lurking in the in the shadows like some of us doing some of these things but it really is something that you know we talked to our daughter early on and she

[00:29:58] doesn't post a whole lot of stuff and she also knows she's eventually going to get out look for a job and they're gonna look at this but we do this like if we're even looking at interns what's out there

[00:30:08] and it's on your public stuff I'm not trying to dig in or whatever I just want to kind of get an idea of what's going on all I'm because what you do affects our business yeah absolutely so so many

[00:30:20] businesses have their own social media accounts many we do and I mean do you distinguish between the Campbell design account or were a rare Julia's Instagram or Facebook account yeah they're all separate

[00:30:34] but how do you how do you approach your personal stuff neutral yeah I mean my personal stuff is like I met so and so we had dinner kind of thing or we got together with family or whatever we did

[00:30:50] but everything is very and even in our branding you know my Campbell design is a different brand than the Veritas and Tiers which is different than my vintage so all of them have different

[00:31:01] identities it's hard like we are part of that but we all have separate identities so like you know the pictures you storming the capital would not show up on your Facebook yeah okay all right

[00:31:13] it's a check okay our personal stuff is just neutral boring or pleasant things but it's pictured I mean we have our cat has at our cat at the office will he on the job

[00:31:26] has his own Instagram yeah well he on the job okay what do I think employers will look this stuff up to see you know are you they're they're they're busy way I mean they're busy

[00:31:38] I'm very strict trying to people you're doing they're judging you and they're grading you do you look like a responsible person all right that can show up pretty quickly you know Facebook

[00:31:50] all right I'm I'm with you now I'm not you know I I you know when we work with people that are starting businesses you know then they come up with business ideas I always

[00:32:03] I'm happy to give them my opinion but I also like to say that if Mark Zuckerberg walked in 20 years ago instead I've got this great idea we're gonna come up with a platform where people

[00:32:12] can put all sorts of personal information about what they're doing and people I'm going to still lots of advertising what I said that's insane I was going to do that poor that's all we

[00:32:20] need I wouldn't have been so you never know people are way too well to do that you better be careful people are looking um what's not I can play different note and this is sort of goes back to the

[00:32:34] I don't know are we all still shaking hands or not anymore I'm not sure a lot of fist pumps a lot of fake handcakes I don't even have phrases it's like the little bit fish handshake

[00:32:47] I cannot tell you how if I meet you and you do that and I our first impression is ew and Ouch that's a technical turn as a tap yeah I mean I'm I'm the woman sitting here and it's like

[00:33:03] you're not gonna break my hand I know how to how to shake your hand but it's the first impression thing where suddenly it's like oh you really don't know how to do business to you

[00:33:14] That's fine I find that to be a leap but go ahead let's let's see yeah I'll hear you out Well it's just there's just something that's really unprofessional about it unless you have a

[00:33:28] So you know we're taking a step back here I mean we are in the time of COVID I'm in about a fist bump okay obviously you'd be better off you in a fist bump than I'll let fish handshake

[00:33:38] I guess so I may either we all work in office situations I suspect with all been in situations where maybe we've been exposed to COVID or we've had someone in our office have COVID it's just

[00:33:50] it's pretty weird out there I mean and I hear what you're saying that if you're going to shake hands do it right is that a fair amount. That's pretty much it okay that one's a short and sweet one so

[00:34:02] this goes into completely different one on the next one which is your resume is only about your personal branding maybe this is a little bit more about what we do is creative people

[00:34:17] but it was a big thing about everybody having their own branding and so when you do your resume as a student they had their own well and it also kind of went out like you or your brand well

[00:34:31] I'm looking to hire you into my brand and that is how I've had and I mean honestly you can I've got a bit email to me and you can almost smell the perfume coming off that resume because

[00:34:44] it's got flowers and it's got all kinds of stuff. Um sorry are you more of just the facts man just the facts are you know tell me what you could do for me and not you know don't give me

[00:34:55] all the fluffery. We need you think about it as a tweet we live in a tweet society and I want your bullet points if who you are and what you do bam and that goes into one thing that's sort of

[00:35:08] our side note and this happened to somebody who came in very highly qualified out of school could not find a job you know why she couldn't find a job because she had done her resume in a graphic

[00:35:21] format in a PDF and when I printed it off it cut the whole like quarter inch side off of the whole thing so her name was cut off and all of her qualifications first three letters of

[00:35:33] everything were cut off and now we all know that if let's just say you're trying to get a job with a large company there's those PDF formats go right into their computers they're never going

[00:35:47] to get your email because the first three letters of Jeff are just F that's it that's all the Flav. Good old GF so we say if you do a PDF resume send it to your grandma on him it's

[00:35:58] correct a printed out yeah we I think a lot of colleges were but this happens with other people who struggle and don't know program where they're trying to do something and show how different they

[00:36:11] the colleges were instructing the students to make these flowery resumes and you know as an employer you don't care about their brand as a student they're they're going to be part of your brand

[00:36:25] and that you want to see if they're going to bring good ideas to the table but we always say you know you can give that flowery resume to your mom or dad who paid for some school but don't give it to us

[00:36:35] I'm sure Gary is taking this thing and going to be able to provide important feedback to our teaching soft skills is a big part of what we do and our college right now it's a

[00:36:48] new secretical well it's what's critical like I've seen you know I had another student who came and she you know she had a wonderful portfolio and I like wow this girl's great she sent me her resume

[00:37:01] and it was awful and I said hmm you're professor really liked you didn't they oh yeah we got along great and I said they did you a huge disservice because they liked you but nobody else out

[00:37:18] there knows who you are and if you're trying to get I mean these are just basic things about it has nothing to do with just students there are adults that don't know how to put a resume together

[00:37:30] I would speak to someone on the phone about a job and I really liked this person and she was saying the right things and and I said well you know send a resume to Julia and then I added

[00:37:43] oh and just make sure it's just televedic a black and white and don't put it a bunch of weird stuff on it just she got hired yeah but what happens though with a lot of people now is it's different

[00:37:55] than those of us who have been in the business and your road to resume but you handed it to somebody now it's going into computer and it's going to be Fred Fred and Fred differently and you know

[00:38:05] LinkedIn would probably like if you uploaded your resume to LinkedIn and see how that goes that might be a good test to begin with I fear that we're gonna be just getting videos from people at some point so

[00:38:16] I don't think you're that far off child I don't think so either depends on the job I guess all right what's next speak real soft I can hear you what's we got what do you speak into the

[00:38:32] microphone that's exactly what I'm talking about we speak real soft and think everyone's going to listen to you or talk really fast like I do all the time don't do either of those don't do

[00:38:43] either of those that's why we brought you here Julia to help you help you help you overcome these issues I appreciate that job okay but I do I have a problem of talking

[00:38:52] well especially if I'm excited I talk really fast and really high but we have had people who talk like this I'm not trying to do ASM or here and you've got to be able to talk to people

[00:39:07] you've got to be able to present yourself and every field unless you have some sort of physical reason you can't you can learn to do this and sometimes I think it takes practice yeah I mean

[00:39:22] I you know not everybody is comfortable you know particularly when they might be in a crowded meeting or what not the speaking up and making presentations and you know it's it I think it could be a

[00:39:36] learned skill anxiety can get the best of you and I I understand that but you also have to always know who your audience is and know how to how to present yourself in a professional way I think this

[00:39:52] hits women a lot more than men you know if I get shrill I'm shriek you know and and I've had to work over the years to not tell like this all the time I've had to learn to lower my voice and to slow down

[00:40:07] but I and raise no means since we were in high school I've really worked hard at that and not everybody is gifted with a beautiful voice but you can work at it. Jeff's right you and

[00:40:20] Julia right you can work at it one step at a time if if you have something you're not confident in you just you make a plan and you take small steps yeah you're not gonna it's not like every night

[00:40:35] you're gonna learn how to be able to get up in front of a thousand people and talk I mean not everybody is a born actor and even the born actors kept stage fright as a kid I would play guitar

[00:40:46] and sing and that you know as a kid you have all the confidence in the world as an adult I'm trying to get back into that and it is tough I am taking it one step at a time I'm scared about it but you just got

[00:40:59] to you know just like I said make a plan and work on it a little bit. Well now in the other issues when you deal like with with older people like Jerry and I who've been to so many rock concerts

[00:41:10] sir and you're in is that what it used to be. Yeah I'm yeah most of the time when I watched you be at home I've got close caption on it this point in time was why you know what what did they say

[00:41:20] anywhere. I love the fast messages you get almost make a video I want to and you're inviting the people from the next office over hate come over here and listen to this message can you

[00:41:29] understand what they're saying yeah and and you have a pen in your hand at the right and you're trying to write down these fragments they're talking so fast and you're trying to piece together

[00:41:39] this message that's you have. Well then Serium come up with something it is always really entertaining and as you're doing this and struggling and playing the message three times you're like why am I

[00:41:49] doing this? If only they'd find their emails right you wouldn't know how to get back to the answer. That's what I'm talking about. That's one of my pet peeves is when someone leaves a voice message

[00:41:58] you know clearly say your phone number twice. Yeah, I don't know if you're named twice so I will get it you know so that's it's that's me as if you were trying to make $10,000 by doing it correctly.

[00:42:11] So so sort of related to this presenting yourself I think is sort of your next your next issue. Yeah what you wear doesn't matter and let's lobster find if you're going out to visit a

[00:42:26] customer that is a whatnot to do. Another one that we talked to our students about. We have a story we went to a industrial plant to basically interview and they brought other people from other

[00:42:39] companies along. Three competitors to interview. We had no we were all good to up at the same time now which was what not to do don't invite everybody at the same time as competitors in yeah.

[00:42:50] So anyway we're already there because we've driven 45 minutes to the site and one of our competitors walked in in flip flops to a factor. To a major industrial factory that has metal parts on the floor

[00:43:03] and we just had safety videos we watched. So we were literally told you have to put these steel toe covers on and she they're like look at her do you have any other shoes? No well you can sit here

[00:43:17] on the lobby or go sit in your car. That's right three competitors became too worked out well for you. Based on dressing and I mean that's all this is a whole you

[00:43:32] always could do a whole podcast of what you wear and how it's presented and that you know I think that's something that it is a generational thing but there is also memory if I said about

[00:43:44] researching your company you know if you were going to a major factory and you know you're going to walk through the factory to the cafeteria maybe it's a really really good idea to wear

[00:43:55] clothes to choose that day just maybe. I think COVID is probably messed this one up as well and that you know people are just the whole what do I wear am I actually going to work you know it's

[00:44:09] just it's the wardrobe issues all thrown all over the place at this point. But you know I mean but we're throwing this out of being it is as dumb as wearing flip flops to a job site and you

[00:44:20] know these are it's not just our business these are sales people coming yet and they have nothing to do with that bit with the business but you've got to really realize who you're calling on

[00:44:30] and what's appropriate. Okay let's move on what else you got. Oh on your work funny work computer it doesn't matter what you download on it because you know especially if you're a little company he's going to have time to look for that stuff. Oh yeah. You're looking.

[00:44:47] Well here's what happened because we all of these have come from hey here's what happened so one of our former employees left and so get ready to bring a new person and got to clean that computer up

[00:44:59] and I found stuff that I should never have seen. Oh yeah your eyes were burned. My eyes were burned and I can't unburn the many more on this. And what's amazing is this is back to burning your

[00:45:14] bridges you know later on they want to do some freelance work I'm completely freaked out but I don't I can't just go in front of them saying and by the way look what I cleaned off

[00:45:25] of your computer today but it also comes I mean and I had it happen when I worked for a company where I download I had a bunch of music and I burned it and put it on my computer and it disappeared

[00:45:36] and I was really upset because you know hey they deleted Van Morrison and I wanted to listen to Van that day but that's what happened and I think everybody work in business overlap so much for

[00:45:50] so many people and we really try to separate it but you really need to be careful of what goes on a computer and what I mean your IT people or IT people you hire you never know what will get

[00:46:03] downloaded that will infect your computer. Yeah even if you're solving a business problem and you see something out there that could help you achieve your goal and it says download here you need to stop and ask somebody should I be downloading this because it'll like it could

[00:46:23] infect your computer even if it's a some tool to help you out. Well I the only thing I'll share is I I have this memory of I was at the Dick sporting goods one day and the checkout line and

[00:46:35] there was this woman in front of me was saying I tried to find this online and I typed in Dix dot com and don't ever do that because I had to have my whole computer clean then it was

[00:46:45] awful and stuff that came up was awful it's Dick sporting's good stock com so it looks like I don't see where that was about that yeah I should not have been swallowed that one.

[00:46:57] Anyway all right your last don't do this in business is what oh tell everyone when you work somewhere else how much better it was when you were there and how they didn't when you were there

[00:47:10] and how everything was great when you were at your other place of business people don't people don't like that I don't know any place that does because if it was so great why aren't you there and

[00:47:23] why didn't they go out of business? Yeah maybe they weren't and I've got to say that came from Phil who works for us with us and I'm like oh we've had that before that's a great one where

[00:47:37] yeah well when I work in such and such we did it this way or I learned that in school and we did this way well who's signing your check-man but there's a lot of that wherever everyone will tell you

[00:47:51] or our favorite one is I saw that on HDTV so apparently entertainment people no more than the license professionals well you guys have you've got it you've had a dirty dozen here of things man

[00:48:06] you shouldn't be doing which I think we can all appreciate some some might resonate with us more than others and and I think we can always look at is there ways that we can be improving you've got a list of

[00:48:20] honorable mentions yeah I don't know if there are anything just jump it out of you right there that the on the honorable mentions we probably don't need to go through them all but is there any any one or two that

[00:48:31] just like chewing gum don't you don't be hungover yeah don't open up when you meet someone with too much information about all of your life yes I like the waff waff waff yeah like that one

[00:48:54] waff means walking air freshener if you if you walk into an interview and you change the way everything smells in the building I don't think this is much any more I don't see that happening as

[00:49:07] much it's it used to you said a female thing or a male thing or it's both it is both it is both I'll tell you what my pet peeves spell people's names correctly because my name is Julia not

[00:49:22] Julie and I literally in my signature I signed Julia Campbell everything is Julia Campbell I get emails back Julie and so I email back my name is Julia Julie is my evil twin they never do it again

[00:49:41] I think that's a very memorable way to approach that yes Julia the difficult spelling of the name getting it right we had an intern we had a very talented engineer and we and we didn't think he was real at first he was very talented his name was Hacus

[00:50:03] he calls into leave a message in the intern it's like Hacus how do you spell that because she wanted to get it right Jay ES you asked well this blue her mind why didn't he just say his name was Jesus

[00:50:21] one of us my favorite part of the big little balski anyway don't don't mess with the Jesus man anyway well we really appreciate you guys coming on and joining us sharing this great information we're going to do a quick lighting round with you guys but before we do

[00:50:37] we want to thank our sponsor for this month in the tight labor market or is the tight labor market frustrating you as a business owner do you have employees leaving for one or two dollars extra per hour make-o-rx complete care is a quality health care solution that has

[00:50:56] a lot of businesses to recruit and retain employees to learn how make-o-rx can help your business stay competitive competitive visit make-o-rx.com as m-a-o-rx.com or call 855-562-5679 make-o-rx health care

[00:51:16] simplified so please check them out make-o-rx.com we appreciate their support so we like to do a quick lighting round we're going to make it quick with just a few questions that we will try to get quick answers

[00:51:29] from you guys don't don't overthink. There's a quick answer. Oh if I can think that much I'm all right so here's a question for you guys this is what is your biggest non-business pet peeve don't overthink it. Just dealing with stupid people. Right would you share anything or

[00:51:53] is that fair just people approaching you out of nowhere to have conversations like when you're pumping gas. I'll mess with Ray what he's pumping his gas all right beetles rolling stones or Michael Jackson beetles beetles beetles beetles okay favorite comfort food

[00:52:21] oh chocolate chocolate chocolate chocolate chocolate for a Julia mac and cheese that's a good one yeah it's hard to go around with the mac and cheese last one if you had a super power what would

[00:52:37] it be it's the same one for both of us time travel oh yeah are you going in the same direction going further you go back back back back back I'm going everywhere. I'm going to hang out with the

[00:52:51] beach boys I'm going back I like that I like the beach boys there's still a couple around right there there are do a classic beach boys so all right we're going back to the sixties having a good time

[00:53:02] I'm well I'm dressed as the seventies today that is all right all right so thank you guys if people want to find Campbell design where should they be looking they can find us at Campbelldesign.com on Facebook at Campbelldesign architecture same on Instagram and I think we're Campbelldesign

[00:53:20] Campbelldesign architecture and LinkedIn as well. Start with Campbelldesign.com and you'll find and there's no acid at the end of it and then Newton. Campbell is an eye Newton North Carolina.

[00:53:30] Ray Julia thank you so much for joining us we always like to end our podcast with some small businesses that we like to give a shout out to you guys have any businesses you'd like to give a

[00:53:41] shout out to well we have two really wonderful tenants in our building and one is Justin Ray Melaw he's criminal lawyer and the other one is Amanda Stewart with BB May skincare. Fantastic. Super. Gary what the small businesses do you have?

[00:54:01] Well this month Jeff I'm going to highlight just dump it. It's a local. I'm just dump it. And my own business located in Newton. Specializing treating you like family the company has been in business since March 2019 and recently won Best of the

[00:54:18] Value 2021 Best Rental Services and cleaning services had you heard of them? I have not. Not by okay great. Oh my manny and Todd Watson just dump it takes immense pride in their customer service and competitive rates. I take the extra and you're dumpster rental or junk removal service

[00:54:37] experiences stress free and also priced fairly they don't work on contractive services that would raise the rates for your customer such as dumpster brokers answering services and other similar things like that they're downhoned business. You just pick up the found to contact just dump it

[00:54:52] and you'll be dealing with mandir or Todd directly and that's the key. Just like you guys and Tammy and I my wife met them at the chamber summit and we really like the down to her style that

[00:55:04] they had and we're going to use them as we're cleaning things up and organizing things in our house. Okay that's right everyone just dump it. Just dump it. Okay and I love their title over their business or their name of their business because I saw three eyes and

[00:55:18] look at me what's just dump it me before you they learn. Well the the small business that I want to give a shout out to I was with some friends in Greenville South Carolina a few weeks ago

[00:55:31] and ran across a small business called the Mad Smash. And basically it's a business that if you need to blow off some steam and smash things they have a smash rooms where you can go in smash a

[00:55:48] car you can smash bottles, computers, computers, you remember office space yeah yeah the build facts machine or what are computers or whatnot they have rage rooms where you can go in

[00:56:03] and pay a certain fee for a certain amount of time they suit you up so I guess things don't splinter often and put out your eye or anything like that they do splatter painting where you can just throw

[00:56:15] paints and things up against walls and whatnot to see this where is it at it's a rainbow South Carolina they host events they do team building parties you know Gary I know that the community

[00:56:27] college took us to an escape room and locked me up and blindfold me yes yeah it was really a bad scene and by the way we're not going to put that on social media or a podcast yeah right

[00:56:42] but can we put smashing stuff on social media that could be fun well you can you can go check them out at the the Mad Smash.com so you can go check out their website and learn a little bit more

[00:56:53] about them and if you're in the Greenville area you can you can go in and you know probably I helped your way to blow off steam then you find these very unique businesses kind of like the

[00:57:05] hatchet throwing okay keeping rage off the streets since 2019 so let's keep our rage off the street so happy good timing for them to start their business in the late weeks of being with all of you guys anyway if you've got a suggestion for our entrepreneurs change small business

[00:57:23] of the month you can email them to us at exchange.tv and we will send your prize back to you too uh... uh... just a suggestion we want to thank uh... range of your camber for joining us today

[00:57:35] we want to thank the mesh podcast network and the special thanks to makeo rx or supporting our podcast you can check them out at www.maco-rx.com check them out again thank you for

[00:57:51] listening and we'll look forward to talking with you again next month take care of that base safe you've been listening to the mesh and online media network of shows and programs ranging from business to arts sports entertainment music community

[00:58:20] all programs are available on the website as well as through iTunes and YouTube check us out online at the mesh.tv just go for other network shows and give us feedback on what you just heard