Taking a Product to Market with John Ujvari, Director of Technology Commercialization at NC’s SBTDC

[00:00:02] What you want when you want it, where you want it. This is the MESH. Welcome to the Entrepreneur Exchange on the MESH Podcast Network. A monthly conversation about startups, small business, with ideas, tools and advice to operate your business more effectively.

[00:00:30] On today's show, you're an entrepreneur. You've got a product idea. How do you launch it? Can you make money with it? Our guest today is John Uvari with the Nurekawa and Small Business and Technology Development Center.

[00:00:44] He's going to give us some pointers on successfully launching your product. We'll also have our small business of the month feature. We'll recommend some interesting businesses that you should be checking out.

[00:00:56] Greetings, my name is Jeff Nouvell. I'm your co-host. I'm Director of the Manufacturing Solutions Center in Connover, North Carolina. I'm joined by my co-host Gary Muller, who is Executive Dean of Economic Development and Corporate Education at Ketalbe Valley Community College in Hickory, North Carolina.

[00:01:14] Gary, how's it going today? Jeff, it's going great. Great job on the title. We've been working on that for a while. We've got it under control. Very excited. We came back from our state conference in SkillsUSA and our students did a great job again.

[00:01:32] So I'm very, very excited about that. Things are going well at the college. SkillsUSA is a national program where students have the opportunity to do presentations on everything from entrepreneurship, to welding, to cosmatology, to what?

[00:01:48] Everything. Anything, as I say, as you just said, from accounting to welding and everything in between, of course, entrepreneurship's been a great competition for us. We've done well with that as well as many other ones. But our students continue to do well and it's exciting.

[00:02:03] And you'll get to go to what national competition is in Atlanta. In Atlanta this year. Yes, we had 14 state champions, so we will be taking probably over 20 students to Atlanta in the end of June.

[00:02:16] Okay. Well, I know some really nice clubs in Atlanta that you guys might want to hit. I don't think we're able to do that with our skillsUSA students. All right. Well, you're lost. But you can tell me about what they're like. Well, Gary, we're let's welcome our guest.

[00:02:32] John Yvariu's director of commercialization with the Norikana Small Business and Technology Development Center. John, how are you doing today? I'm doing great guys. Glad to be here. Congratulations. Well, we appreciate you joining us today. But before we get started with the product commercialization,

[00:02:54] tell us a little bit about the Small Business and Technology Development Center and what your role there is with technology commercialization. Absolutely. So the Small Business and Technology Development Center for short is the SBTDC. We're actually part of a nationwide network of Small Business Development Centers.

[00:03:16] So there are about 60 Small Business Development Centers all across the country. Some states have multiple. We are funded and part by the Small Business Administration and funded and part is a match through the University of North Carolina System.

[00:03:34] So state dollars and federal dollars coming in together as a match. Our organization is approximately 70 individuals. We're located across the state. We have offices co-located on each of the UNC system campuses. My physical office is based in at UNC Chapel Hill. We are an economic development advisory service.

[00:04:04] So very different than what you would consider as a consultant. We're not consultants, we're advisors. And we advise early stage Small Businesses, medium sized businesses as they work through all of the challenges that their focus on or should be focused on as they grow.

[00:04:25] The core of what our services revolve around is what we consider general business counseling and the general business counselors are business type agnostic, they work with mainstream businesses, manufacturers, service providers etc. Working with them on financials, working with them on marketing, business plan development etc.

[00:04:52] In addition to our general business counseling services, we also have three special resource areas. The first is our international business development team. They work primarily with later stage companies that are, they've been in business, they've got product on the market.

[00:05:12] And now they're looking to export products looking to go globally. The second special program is our government procurement team. They work with again companies that are a little bit later stage product on the market revenue generating. And our looking to utilize the government as a, as a customer.

[00:05:35] Going through that process especially the first time is, as you imagine, quite a challenge. So they work with companies to identify government procurement opportunities and then work with them through that process of going on to be successful contractors.

[00:05:51] And then finally our third special group is my team, our technology commercialization program. And we tend to work with earlier stage companies, companies that are innovation driven companies that are developing intellectual property.

[00:06:10] And when companies come to come into our program, they're generally at the stage of research and development. Researching and developing that innovative product that they hope to bring to market. And oftentimes our services revolve around two two major things. Number one is identification and successful funding acquisition.

[00:06:38] And moving on from there helping them to really rally around the commercialization aspect. And of course we're going to talk in much more detail about the commercialization topic today. So I've been with the SPTDC since 2001.

[00:06:55] I've been primarily working in, with innovation driven companies throughout my entire career here. I've had a lot of experience working with all sorts of different companies in wide wide range of industries. So a lot of kind of wisdom I've gained over the years.

[00:07:19] Well, and you also do have something in common with my friend Gary in that you're both, I believe, have MBA degrees from the from Wake Forest University. Great, great. Got a lesson. I graduated from Wake Forest in 2001 and, and, wow, ready for that. Join the SPTDC.

[00:07:41] I went to undergraduate and graduate school at Wake Forest. So I believe Black and Gold. Yeah, much, much earlier, Dates than you though. Yes, I was going to say I'm not going to, you know, somewhere in the 1930s. Yeah, yeah, sure.

[00:07:53] I'm sure technology was much different back then. We didn't have technology. When you talk about technology commercialization and IP, I mean, do you work with people that have physical products? You're your widgets or is it primarily software or other technology or a little bit of all the above?

[00:08:15] Yeah, it's absolutely all of the above. On one hand, technology is, is a good word, but on the other hand, innovation type companies are, is the better descriptor of, of the type of company that we work with.

[00:08:33] And innovation from from my standpoint means companies that are developing a new novel product or service that's going to fulfill an unmet need. Okay, that has a significant market potential.

[00:08:51] And as you can imagine, the industries that that falls into is extremely broad from software hardware materials biotech medical farm, all across the board. So we are indeed technology area agnostic. What kind of technologies that we work with?

[00:09:13] Now, you said that there are two primary aspects that you focus on funding and commercialization. And we can talk a little bit about both of those. Add curiosity to you look at it. Which comes first to check under the egg.

[00:09:27] Do you focus first on commercialization and also slash viability or do you worry about funding? Or how do you approach these things? That's that's an excellent question. You can't successfully attract funders without having at least a baseline understanding of the ability to commercialize what you hope to develop.

[00:09:55] So there, there does need to be some foundational understanding of what is the market need and really what is the ultimate viability of what we're developing. That would say is step number one to understand if that passes muster.

[00:10:14] You can then move on to looking at funding opportunities because every funding opportunity, no matter if it's going to be government grant or contract funding equity funding debt funding. They're all going to want to see that there is some commercial viability of that.

[00:10:35] And you know, I'll also add that quite frankly that most early stage research and development companies skip that step. They go directly into looking at funding mechanisms without having at least a data driven understanding of what the market and product possibilities might be.

[00:11:03] So that's where we can come into play and help them kind of step back a little bit and really understand where to start the process. So something that I know you and I have spoken about is developing a commercialization plan.

[00:11:22] So talk a little bit about what a commercialization plan is and why does someone launching a new product or a new service need it. Excellent. So we look at a commercialization plan as.

[00:11:42] A pseudo business plan, a business plan that has a very specific focus on a particular product or service that's being launched. And in essence, the commercialization plan is a roadmap that will be followed post research and development.

[00:12:05] And this is a plan that is going to help both the entrepreneur and potential funders. Understand the business opportunities understand the funding requirements in commercialization in the commercialization phase and what's going to be the plan of action for launch.

[00:12:28] And oftentimes there are a lot of assumptions that need to be made and incorporated into a commercialization plan.

[00:12:36] Backing those assumptions up with data to support those assumptions is really key, but at the end of the day they're still assumptions at the end of the day it's somewhat still a fictitious document.

[00:12:53] That that being drafted, but it is it's the best you can do and it really helps the entrepreneur to focus their efforts on. What what are we going to do if this product or service comes to fruition.

[00:13:10] So really it's it's a huge advocate of of starting with the end in mind and helped to promote that to the companies that we work with and of course that end goal. That end goal is is the successful launch and revenue generation of the product that they've launched.

[00:13:29] And in starting that that commercialization planning process and understanding all of the components is really key so assumptions but backing them up with as many assumptions as possible.

[00:13:44] And and I know that when when Gary and I talked to people about business plans one of the things that we try to focus on is, you know, who is your audience, you know, are you writing this for you? Is it is it you are road map or you writing this to potential.

[00:13:59] Funders, lenders, whoever is there a specific audience for the commercialization plan or or might it be tweaked depending on who that audience is absolutely. I think it's it's a two full answer. First and foremost, any business plan or any commercialization plan. The first audience should be the entrepreneur.

[00:14:27] The process of of developing a plan of action and gathering data to support your assumptions really helps the entrepreneur to understand what is the opportunity.

[00:14:40] And if there is not an apparent opportunity that should really help make them think about pivoting or just moving in a completely different direction.

[00:14:51] I think that's really important working with some young entrepreneurs right now within this semester and going through and doing their business plan we talk about it all the time.

[00:15:02] It's okay if you go through all the assumptions and all the analysis working find out that hey this may not be a viable opportunity.

[00:15:10] It's better to find it out during the development of the business plan than going out there and learning the hard way that it wasn't the right way to go.

[00:15:20] And that's where you guys come in as well as Jeff and myself is looking at it and saying hey this may not be for you because even though it may be painful then we'll be less painful if they go forward with something that's not good.

[00:15:35] A huge investment of time funding, etc. Could go to waste without this prior planning. So of course the secondary audience to a commercialization plan is funders.

[00:15:53] So a lot of the companies that we work with again are in R&D mode and a lot of them are poised to go after. SBI are funding small business innovation research which is a major federal funding mechanism for innovation based small businesses.

[00:16:10] Those agencies that provide funding require a commercialization plan to be submitted with their research and development proposal in the phase two of the SBI are process.

[00:16:23] And without a clear concise commercialization roadmap and SBI are proposal could have you know the absolute best product in mind it could have.

[00:16:39] Great research and development potential but without demonstrating to the reviewers of of these SBI are proposals set there's going to be a plan of action to get this product to market they won't fund it.

[00:16:54] So the same goes with with equity funders they're going to be looking at you know a pitch presentation which in essence is.

[00:17:03] And if you want to be a good one in the process of creating all of its commercialization plan they're going to be wanting to see that there is a strong revenue generation profit motive.

[00:17:13] So I think to answer your question it's it's a document a plan that's beneficial to both the entrepreneur and funders. And you talked about that you just mentioned elements that you think funders might be looking for.

[00:17:32] Or I guess potentially the government if it's if you're going to the SBI are process. Do you.

[00:17:43] Are there are there certain key elements that should be included in that commercialization plan I know you mentioned assumptions and I serve assume at some point we're getting to the financial piece of this where where someone's going to have to make some projections of what sort of revenue we could be generating so what sort of elements.

[00:18:06] Do you do you tell people they need to be including in that commercialization plan. Yeah there there are about a half dozen elements that that are very important in a commercialization plan and the first is.

[00:18:21] Describing what is the unmet need in the marketplace what are the pain points that this potential product or service. Is going to to fulfill in the marketplace and really having an understanding of. What what are the users needs. Next is competitive landscape.

[00:18:44] Really understanding who what products what companies is our innovation going to be up against. So it really ties in with the unmet need in that understanding what the the competitors value propositions are and and what are the weaknesses in their solutions to the unmet need.

[00:19:10] They helps to guide what are the the pin points benefits that we need to bring in in our new innovation. So unmet need pain point and then competitive analysis and landscape analysis are real key. See the third is is looking at the intellectual property landscape.

[00:19:33] Is are there intellectual property protections in place for similar products or services that that exist right now. Intellectual property is going to be very, very key to any funder they want to see that what is being developed.

[00:19:55] Is protectable and that it can't simply be copied and and you know, prepared and sold by by others. So having a clear understanding of what patents trademarks, etc., are in place right now and how our technology or innovation can fit into that landscape is is very key.

[00:20:20] Promotion promotion of the product what is going to be our plan of action to get this product in front of potential customers potential buyers. What are we going to be building a promotional team in house or we going to be outsourcing that it's et cetera.

[00:20:42] Production if you're if you're in the. Say you're developing a device or a widget.

[00:20:50] Whatever it might be if it's a physical product or see you've got production needs who is going to be doing that are you going to be outsourcing it or you can be doing it in house or you can be subcontracting what is the plan of action there.

[00:21:06] And then I think most importantly is the financial aspect. Over the next three to five years how what do we project our expenses to be what we expect our revenue potential to be and I think most importantly is.

[00:21:24] If there are if you're running it a loss, how are we going to fill that gap? What funding mechanisms are going to come in next right. To is it going to be additional grant funding contract funding is it going to be equity is it going to be debt.

[00:21:42] Looking at what what are our funding needs going forward and how we can fill in the gaps until we become you know, rev. Profitable and team.

[00:21:55] Team I think is is you know for for many, many reasons not just for the commercialization plan process but team is really going to make or break. The ability of of an innovation to be funded and to be successful.

[00:22:14] Of course the best case scenario is a team that has been there and done that before right serial entrepreneurs. But everybody needs to start at the beginning at some point in their career so.

[00:22:28] A little bit more difficult for an unseasoned entrepreneur on season innovator to demonstrate their success. Prior successes. So in those cases kind of wrapping advisors wrapping a you know board of directors around you if you are early in the process can go a long way.

[00:22:54] So a lot of different components in the commercialization plan but but they all revolve around. The market need who's going to make this happen and what is the funding that we're going to need to make it happen.

[00:23:08] Well, you know taking a taking a step back a little bit and talking about market need and you know something that we've we've discussed on our podcast before the whole customer discovery process of really trying to.

[00:23:25] You know validate the business idea you know I know that that's an area that that you put some focus on as you're as you're working with people.

[00:23:36] You know how does customer discovery fit into the plan and and what sort of mistakes do you see people make as they go through that process. So customer discovery is is something that should start very, very early in the process even prior to.

[00:23:55] Development or research all businesses need to think of of their customers is really being the king right it's it's kind of a you know just the saying that we toss around customers king but. In fact that that really is true.

[00:24:12] All right and in the customer is king when conducting customer discovery so customer discovery is really all about learning what your potential customers needs and pain points are how they're currently solving. The problem at hand. What's their willingness to use a better solution if one existed.

[00:24:35] And what's their willingness or ability to pay for added benefits if those were to be available to them. Okay.

[00:24:45] So starting that customer discovery process early is is very important because it is the time consuming process it's a time consuming process because you need to identify who those potential customers are who those users are who those decision makers are.

[00:25:04] And you need to define key questions that you need to ask them you need to reach out you need to expect that most of them are not going to respond to your initial request.

[00:25:18] And you need to be perseverate right you need to it's really continue down that path and try to get as much data as he possibly can. And in the process of of asking those questions of customers.

[00:25:33] The key is not to ask leading questions the key is to ask probing questions prompting questions and put your you're listening ears on and gather as much data from them is possible so don't ask leading questions ask global questions and learn from them.

[00:25:58] And from one interview to the next maintaining continuity. Between those questions so that when it comes time to analyze the results you're going to be analyzing similar results from similar questions they have.

[00:26:16] And as you start this customer discovery process you may find that the questions or the probing questions that you're asking are really leading to the data that's most valuable to to your commercialization plan.

[00:26:32] So you may have to change up you may have to pivot a little bit and really assess how can I ask these questions better to get to the data that I need. A lot of a lot of. products and services have a variety of different pools of.

[00:27:00] people that should be asked questions of so think about a. an educational tool right. The user or beneficiary might be.

[00:27:13] The child right the decision maker about using this this tool might be an educator a teacher and the actual buyer the check writer for this tool might be a school system.

[00:27:28] Right so all of these these three different entities are going to have different kind of pain points different value propositions that that they need.

[00:27:42] To to make a purchasing decision so kind of chunking these these different buyer users and beneficiaries out and and probing different questions to each of these different groups can be a strategy as well. This doesn't sound like I can knock it out in an hour.

[00:28:02] No this is this is clearly a six month process. Wow okay and and when you say interviews I mean are you or you do suggest. Personal face to face interviews online or or.

[00:28:18] Depends yeah yeah really depends you know clearly face the faces is going to be difficult especially for you know. Product offerings that have a nation wider even perhaps a global. Audience but you know starts small start.

[00:28:37] Start you know in your in your geographic region so that perhaps you can have face to face meetings learn from those initial meetings and then move on to. You know virtual meetings phone calls etc.

[00:28:53] As certain you know if if you have a massive massive audience say a thousand potential customers that you may want to reach out to certainly using a survey mechanism could be beneficial to you.

[00:29:08] But I think having that that one on one interaction whether be phone in person virtual is going to lead to a lot more. A lot more information sharing from that that interview.

[00:29:22] You know you you gave the example of an educational tool you know often I call Gary an affectionate way and educational tool so. Related. Thank you and let me let me jump in and find a thing I'll add is that. This is not a sales call.

[00:29:44] These are not sales that you're trying to achieve. Because you don't have a finished product yet where you shouldn't have a finished product at the time you're starting this process.

[00:29:55] This is a data gathering call to help you understand what the needs of the customer are so that is you're going back to the drawing board back to the lab back to the facility where you're developing this product.

[00:30:10] And create that product that's going to fulfill exactly what the needs of the customer are. Early on you mentioned the importance of protecting intellectual property. Which I think my mind quickly goes to securing a patent and dollar signs flash in my head.

[00:30:36] So you know talk to us a little bit about how you advise your clients on intellectual property and and and how you pay you take them through that process there.

[00:30:50] So a great publication that the SPTDC offers is our intellectual property guide and that's available on the SPTDC dot org websites under our publications tab. How much does that cost? That is absolutely free. Oh, I see it better. Okay, good.

[00:31:16] There are actually a good number of publications kind of guidance documents available on that same link that they're available for download as well.

[00:31:21] But as it relates to intellectual property this, this is something that that most definitely needs to be considered because at the end of the day protecting what you have developed is going to be kind of the intrinsic value of what you what you're offering right.

[00:31:42] So there are multiple mechanisms of protection. There's patents, trade marks, copyrights, trade secrets. And the mechanism that is is selected is is really depends on many factors. We always suggest that reaching out to an intellectual property focused attorney is a good idea.

[00:32:07] Okay, intellectual property attorneys are not all equal. There are some firms here in North Carolina that are more entrepreneurially focused. And and those are the ones that that we tend to suggest that early stage companies reach out to.

[00:32:30] And in the reason for that is because those entrepreneurially focused intellectual property attorneys or firms really understand what. The needs and in the position that early stage companies are in they don't have a lot of funding to put toward protection.

[00:32:52] They don't have a lot of funding to you know have strategic discussions. And so we do recommend several attorney firms in this space across the state.

[00:33:07] You have to remember that whatever the mechanism of protection that you employ is simply giving you or your business the right to pursue infringement.

[00:33:21] Okay, it's not absolutely protecting you from nobody else stepping into your and to your in the world and copying that all it does is provide you the opportunity to. To go after them and that can be very costly right.

[00:33:41] So it's costly but in in many cases very, very important.

[00:33:46] And especially important when it comes to fundraising fundraisers are going to want to see that you've employed a strategy of some sort to protect what you're developing because if somebody does come in and copies your idea and really runs with it well there goes the entire value of this product offering that that he've made.

[00:34:10] As you can imagine. Electrical property protections very vastly in terms of time and cost depending on what what is being developed. Trade marks clearly an easier mechanism, you know less costly going into patents you need a lot of companies have what they consider platform technologies.

[00:34:37] And and there need to be multiple patents to protect the entire platform and that can be very costly initiative. So we're not attorneys here but we we know enough to suggest that.

[00:34:52] A company probably does need to have some protection depending on what they're working on and we make referrals consistently to many attorneys.

[00:35:05] So I'm going to go into it to a little bit of a different topic you you you talked about funding and you mentioned the small business innovation research grants you know we we always run into folks who are saying where's where's the grant where's the free money you know.

[00:35:25] But yeah, SBIRs are are fairly specific and I guess there's a limited audience there I mean, tell us a little bit about the SBIR program and when it's appropriate for someone to be looking in that direction. Sure.

[00:35:44] We look at funding is is being what we call a funding food chain. And different funding mechanisms can be a fit depending on the stage of the company and also the stage of the technology.

[00:36:02] At at the we'll call it the the pre venture stage companies that that aren't even quite frankly a legal business entity yet. Of course they have very limited funding opportunities oftentimes it's it's friends and family and fools. And it's it's it's bootstrapping putting your own money in.

[00:36:29] And from my perspective using that funding to conduct that customer discovery work and maybe doing some very early stage preliminary development work on the under product can come into play. Once that company is is in business they they're in L.C. a corporation at that point.

[00:36:53] They've got some preliminary data, they've done some customer discovery work we consider that an early stage business at that point. That's where SBIR and STTR funding can come into play and SBIR and STTR is a four plus billion dollar funding mechanism that's that's available from 11 federal agencies.

[00:37:19] And those federal agencies have what they call solicitations that they publish. Sometimes multiple times a year and these solicitations or request for proposals are needs that the agencies have an interest in funding. These needs can be either internal needs to the government.

[00:37:46] So for example, department defense has a lot of internal field based needs that they have. So they publish solicitations that are. Fitting of developing solutions to problems that they have out in the field. Other agencies like the National Institutes of Health and National Science Foundation.

[00:38:05] They don't necessarily have internal needs that they're interested in funding but they have mission driven and interest that they fund. So no matter if it's a internal or an external need that's being developed the agencies have an interest in it.

[00:38:23] And the first stage that a company generally enters into is called what's known as a phase one SBIR and STTR.

[00:38:33] And phase one provides between 200, 300,000 dollars and six to 12 months of time to carry out a feasibility study or proof of concept study and that that really helps to nail down. Is this product something that actually works does it provide a solution.

[00:38:52] If phase one results pan out you're eligible to move on to a phase two and the phase two requires a robust research plan in addition to.

[00:39:06] The commercialization plan and that that phase can provide 750,000 sometimes upwards of of two to three million dollars and two years of time to. Best of scenario get that technology or an innovation to a point where it's commercial ready.

[00:39:26] Now that's best case scenario certainly for very capital intensive projects like pharmaceuticals or medical devices. SBIR is only going to fund a portion of the work even by the end of phase two and that's where follow on equity funding often comes into play is post phase two.

[00:39:52] So once once a technology is is de-risked enough or technical readiness level is is higher that opens the door to these these. A broader array of potential funder so angel funding equity funding and perhaps even debt or partnership funding from larger corporations can come into play.

[00:40:22] So a lot of different funding mechanisms they all have their their place in the development phase and business and revenue generation phase of the business.

[00:40:34] And that's where we can come into play and work with a company to say okay you're at phase X you know this is probably the funding mechanism that you should you should look at right now.

[00:40:48] But also let's be thinking two to three years down the road to say what do we need to achieve to be able to open the doors for follow on funding mechanisms so it's it's a funding food chain.

[00:41:03] Okay well you've done a really good job of sort of laying out the process from the commercialization plan and and viability and customer discovery and funding and intellectual property we really. Appreciate you being with us today you got.

[00:41:21] We'll be okay if we go go through our lightning round with you. Let's go for it all right well these are these are quick questions quick answers don't overthink it. Today's lightning round is sponsored by global gym.

[00:41:35] Do you need to lose some weight getting shape Gary yes we'll go to someone else's gym global gym is not the place for you but you should check it out on the internet.

[00:41:43] Anyway all right John we got some quick questions for you we're going to start with what is your biggest pet peeve. My biggest pet peeve is when people don't respond in a timely fashion. There what toppings or topping do you put on your pizza.

[00:42:04] Mushrooms black olives all day where do you fall out on pineapple. Love it on your pizza. Now on ice cream okay fair on ice cream good answer. Beatles are rolling stones or Taylor Swift. Neither I'm actually a rush guy.

[00:42:30] Yeah so Beatles little too early for me I mean young guy. Okay that sets us apart in our schooling like they train ten times but that's right. Daylight savings time or standard time. Daylight savings all day have no idea why they keep going back and pay it.

[00:42:54] Do you have a favorite go to adult beverage and what is it? Rolling rock beer from from the trod pencil vang. Okay yes and to my to my surprise it is getting very very difficult to find in any grocery stores.

[00:43:14] I keep up the good side of the road when I find it I load up. Last question for you if you could have one superpower what would it be? The change past behaviors. Yours are other people's.

[00:43:37] Okay yeah I can if you can fix a few mistakes that would have made my life a lot more pleasurable.

[00:43:47] Well I think that's of that's a different podcast but anyway we we appreciate you being here John if people want to find you or the SB TDC where should they be looking.

[00:43:58] SB TDC dot org is our website and my email address is SBIR at sbtc dot org easy one easy easier than my last name alright SBIR at sbtc dot org so we really appreciate you joining us today.

[00:44:18] At the end Gary and I like to share some small businesses that we've run into John anything that you'd like to give a shout out to. And so we're you know it's it's the work that we do is. Takes a long time to see.

[00:44:38] Terrific business results and one company who I will not name the name of was a spin out out of Duke University in. Wow going back to 2004 and they are continuing today to develop artificial blood vessel.

[00:44:59] Right which is is very important in the market currently blood vessels or arteries still need to be harvested from the body. So oftentimes from the lower leg and then placed into the into the heart region to replace blocked arteries.

[00:45:19] So this company again started back in 2004 as a spin out out of the university and you know almost 20 years later.

[00:45:30] They've raised lots and lots of both sbi or equity funding they've done an IPO they're on the market now, but they're still in R&D mode still doing still doing trials.

[00:45:44] But I'm very hopeful so this is one example of you know how a perseverant team really made things happen from a funding in an R&D standpoint and they're really close to commercialization.

[00:46:03] So it's terrific to see you know these these long term projects continuing to run and hopefully going to be making huge impacts in the lives of people.

[00:46:16] They still associated with Duke and that as a as a basketball fan I'm only used to people saying it Duke for one year. That's true that's true. I'm sure there's still some intellectual property that's that's some ownership that Duke but. Yeah, great great team and great story there.

[00:46:37] Sounds good. Well, not many one in guns in this. Yeah, I don't think that John doesn't have a lot of one in guns it sounds like they're going to be working for a while to get up and running but. That's great. Gary what's your small business this month?

[00:46:52] Well, you mentioned global gym course my small business ties into what businesses I always like to talk about on our show and that's whether it's dog business or food business and this month's in line with.

[00:47:07] The dog business power put mobile gym out of Sheryl's Ford North Carolina actually in the Lake Norman area.

[00:47:16] The power put gym is the first only mobile dog gym serving the like Norman area and they bring specially design treadmills this is really cool you got to look it up on the internet and video.

[00:47:29] And then climate controlled vans and I saw the van that's what gave me the idea to bring it to your home, the business the staff works with different motivational tools to get the dogs to work out like they never have done it before.

[00:47:45] Along with private apartment you can also do.

[00:47:47] Pupp up events and that are scheduled around the area and you can take your dog to the gym in the van and try it out by the way the slight mill is a non motorized treadmill design specialist especially for dogs I don't know about cats I can don't think I'd see that this is a dog tool.

[00:48:06] But really interesting course they're great reasons for the owner to do it mobility issues time constraints safety concerns different things like that you wouldn't have to buy your own treadmill.

[00:48:17] You can just rent it out and of course the good for dogs because they have a controlled environment they don't have to worry about hot pavement they don't have to worry about muddy areas and I thought it was pretty cool and I loved the pop up runs where they have.

[00:48:33] I guess groups of dogs go together and they play together then they train together. Gangs of dogs. All right, that's very cool mostly medium to small I didn't see big great names and same for an arts doing this. That sounds pretty unique that's pretty cool.

[00:48:51] I wanted to give a shout out to a company called R. Riveter I was actually at a program this week that had a military military business type stuff and the keynote speaker was a woman named Cameron Cruz who founded this business with her partner Lisa Bradley in 2011 they're both military spouses who I guess faced the frustration of as they moved off in it.

[00:49:19] It was difficult for them to find employment and military families on average move every 2.9 years so it's just not a lot of continuity here so they bought a commercial sewing machine they started making bags and they started enlisting other military spouses to make parts of their pieces of the bags when the handles and latches that were all assembled and sold their

[00:49:48] selling them on the internet under R. Riveter in 2016 they went on Shark Tank and secured a hundred thousand dollars in the partnership of Mark Cuban so just a really cool business they focus on providing flexible mobile opportunities for military spouses.

[00:50:12] They are premium bags but they are made from folks that are giving to our country and you should check it out at the r Riveter.com to learn more about the R Riveter company.

[00:50:28] If you have a suggestion for our entrepreneur exchange small business in the month you can email them to us at exchange.tv we appreciate your suggestions. We want to thank John you've already for joining us John thank you so much we appreciate you being on the entrepreneur exchange.

[00:50:48] It was a pleasure and as John mentioned you could go to sbtdc.org to learn more about the small business and technology development center here in North Carolina and you can find John and his commercialization group out there as well.

[00:51:04] We want to thank the mesh podcast network for their support go to the mesh.tv to see all the cool podcast going on at the mesh and we will look forward to talking with you again next month take care. Take care guys.

[00:51:22] You've been listening to the mesh and online media network of shows and programs ranging from business to arts sports to entertainment music to community. Our programs are available on the website as well as through iTunes and YouTube. Check us out online at the mesh.tv.

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