Domestic Manufacturing with Eric Henry, TS Designs

[00:00:02] What you want when you want it, where you want it. This is The Mesh. I'm a Chairman and Sustainability as a way to compete. Today we'll be talking with Eric Henry, who is CEO of TS Designs and

[00:00:41] Burlington, North Carolina, where he's making high quality apparel here in the United States with local and sustainable materials carving out his niche, despite having the battle low cost overseas importers. We'll also be highlighting some small businesses that you should be checking in on our small business

[00:00:58] at the month feature. Hello, my name is Jeff Neuval. I'm your co-host. I'm director of the Manufacturing Solutions Center in Connover, North Carolina. I'm joined by my co-host Gary Muller, who is Executive Dean of Economic Development and Corporate Education at the Technology Community College in Hickory, North Carolina.

[00:01:15] Gary, how are you doing today? I'm doing okay. I've been a little bit rough start to 2024 like we were talking about. My basketball team, I've seen you wearing your Carolina shirt, which obviously they're playing great.

[00:01:28] White force had a nice run of nine names and now it's a little bit rough patch force. Well, now it's it's groundhog day today. We're taping this on groundhog day. So maybe you'll get six more weeks of basketball season. Maybe there are some ways to say.

[00:01:44] Right now I'm looking for our baseball teams, preseason number one in the country. So your hope exprime comes early. And we don't play the baseball because it sounds good to say that we're one in the country. Okay. Well, it's good. Well, I'm.

[00:01:57] You don't know what to say when I said that. Yeah, I went to Carolina. We have it are playing Duke this weekend. That's a big game. Big game for me. I'll have to make sure no one else is in my house because I get a little.

[00:02:09] I get a little set and stressed out during these games and sometimes throw things and say things that might embarrass me and come to you to tell my wife Tammy that. So she knows that I'm not the only one.

[00:02:19] Okay. I'm happy to give you a little bit of cover there. But we're very fortunate to have a guess with us today. Let's welcome our guest Eric. Canary Eric, how are you doing today? Good morning and I got to make a plug for those go heels.

[00:02:33] Be the best ball game this weekend. So but yet thanks so much for inviting me to be on your show today. Looking forward to it. Well, Eric, we're glad that you're here. We're glad that you have some tar heal roots as well.

[00:02:46] And just as a matter of introduction, as I mentioned, Eric is the CEO of a company called T.S. Designs and Broke to North Carolina that does manufacturing of high quality printed apparel. They focus on being domestic.

[00:03:03] They focus on providing a trackable supply chain and being very transparent. Eric, although you would not know it by looking at him has been doing this for over 40 years. And he looks like a youngster.

[00:03:16] And he has seen many changes and transitions in the apparel industry from where it went being a primarily domestic industry to where over 97% of clothing is now produced overseas. But Eric is on a mission to do change some of that.

[00:03:34] And Eric, it looks like he also has some other interests and beyond apparel. And then I noticed that you're also a board member of the Burlington beer works co-op. Is that true? That's correct.

[00:03:46] That is the first quark of the own brewery in the state at the time when we opened the or 10 in the country. So we purposely again, I don't know anything about making beer although I enjoy it. I don't know anybody good food but I also enjoy that.

[00:03:58] So we created a business in downtown Burlington. It's owned by the community. So I think we've got 3,000 under snail and purposely decided that way. So that Burlington beer works will always be a part of Burlington no matter what happens to me, move, go whatever.

[00:04:18] So yes, that's been open now just five years. So I mean, is it a place where we can come and sit down and have a beer? I mean, are there a room here? What's going on there?

[00:04:29] Of course sure. Come on down again. We took three buildings in downtown Burlington. We went three stories up. Again, we make our own beer, focus on local food. Open Tuesday, Tuesday, Sunday, brunch or weekends.

[00:04:48] Just a phenomenal thing. And we purposely, you know, I've lived in Burlington now for 63 years. I think losing track of time. But I mean, what I downtown used to be like a lot of small downtowns and through globalization and

[00:05:02] Convention of strip shopping centers and models and stuff like that, our small town was devastated. And so unfortunately, I started a cooperative grocery store downtown and that model was a little bit ahead of its time

[00:05:16] And that did not work. But we took that same idea of a cooperative ownership business. And this is a more like a retail based like REI is, so it's owned by the community. But anyway, we got the idea, people like Good Beer, like Good Food.

[00:05:31] We want to invest in downtown Burlington and it has been a phenomenal success in going through the whole, I think, year after we opened, you know, we had to go through the whole COVID stuff.

[00:05:42] But we got a great staff down there and phenomenal food and beer. So please, next time I brought in Stopbots, the beer is only. That's what just, just tell me everything. And the food. Yeah, that's great. Good to hear.

[00:05:57] Well, I, I, I, and some friends of mine look for interesting places to drink beer. So that's going on the radar. So we're on the way to Chapel Hill. Yeah, it is. We're about 30 minutes from Chapel Hill. So yes, you can come by. You're coming out of the�.

[00:06:11] Hit the green, awful 40 drop right off in the Burlington. Have a beer so then she don't down to Chapel Hill by another 30 minutes. Sounds good. All right. Well, you know, I'm glad we got the beer anyway.

[00:06:24] This is my not priority, but, you know, you've been, tell us a little bit about T.S. Designs. You've been working with them for a long time and you've been sort of, you know,

[00:06:34] bobbing up and down in the wind, the waves of change going on in the industry. So to tell us, tell folks a little bit about what T.S. Designs does and sort of the changes

[00:06:44] that you had to deal with since, uh, NAFTA many, many years ago, but why you sort of thought back from it? I remember NAFTA very well, but again, I'm Eric and your president T.S. Designs. And we're mainly into custom print and apparel business, I.E. Printing shirts.

[00:07:01] So for us, NAFTA was the pivot point of our business. T.S. Designs have been around 48 years, I've been here 44 years. T.S. Designs comes from a retire business partner's name, Tom Sonny. Some people call it T.S. shirts, but it's his Tom Sonny.

[00:07:18] So anyway, we built a, what they caught, large or high contract, and excuse me, have volume, contract, screen, print, mood. Got this building again, uh, I think two years before NAFTA

[00:07:33] and so our brands were Tommy Nike Gap, although it would be, it is over 120 people work to you. Banks loved this business was great. January 1, 1994, NAFTA's ratified within two years over 100 of those employees had to be laid off. The brands left as we know that giant sucking sound

[00:07:55] that Ross Pro talked about, this is a ground zero. You know, I got here because my dad actually used to work for growing to industries. And so it was just devastating not only to our business, to our community, to textiles in a pair

[00:08:10] of, that was the start of many other uh, global trade agreements. And as you mentioned earlier, Jeff and I use a word non-Yapers in 97, 90, where we have our closed-down made of a cease.

[00:08:22] But we realized then as we realize now, just there's something wrong when you go outside your market for a product or service, your marketing deliver. And believe or not, in compared the painting behind me

[00:08:34] from a photograph, we grow great cotton here. So we realize then, again as we realize now, um, we're not leaving. And so it has been a challenging uphill battle because in general, I believe the pair of

[00:08:48] intershars moved overseas. They've really attention their focus of how to take advantage of that much cheaper labor which sometimes it or a lot of times is unsustainable. And then also the lack of regulations around environmental, social values, definitely in developing countries. You know, they've been

[00:09:07] no max out there, you know, profits, they're bottom lines. And so I like to say that bill is now due. You know, you cannot continue to neglect impact the people in planet, uh, which has been done

[00:09:20] by the pair of interstries. And now as we understand more what those cost are, it's important. Now I'll drop another scary fact when you back to the 97, 98% the other big thing that's looming in the background that we're just now talking about. And I've talked to quite a few

[00:09:39] people and they think the numbers on the conservatives side really, somebody actually had a higher number of week of ston. 30% of the closets are manufactured never ever make it to retail. Somebody sits in office somewhere trying to feel, well, you guys, you're going to be wearing

[00:09:55] here from now because it's coming from overseas. Or should we never call it fast, fast, because it's not fast. But anyway, so I'm trying to feel what you're going to wear. And then they make an estimate. So now what brands do they incorporate that 30% loss into their

[00:10:08] cost? But the image that I like to show and I'm getting a lot of attention of Jeopardy back in the second. But the image that just sticks in my mind, I show a lot is a

[00:10:19] little light image of a desert and chilly where the pile's clothes is bigger than the town it's just beside. That's where we are today. And so what we're doing, we're not what's

[00:10:31] the, you know, you would be screaming if that was in your backyard. But no, we're taking advantage of this place and chilly because they don't have the rules and regulations. Yerpe is much further ahead on this. US better than it's act together. But again, that bill is now

[00:10:47] doing it comes impact to people in planet. And are you suggesting that the reason that 30% of a peril never makes it to retail is just because of extended, poor forecasting extended supply chains and poor planning and so on and so forth? I mean, you would think, Jeff, during

[00:11:11] COVID, we had that wake up call that you know, global supply chains don't always work that well during global disruptions. And look what's going on right now. We got issues with Suez

[00:11:20] Canal, the Panama Canal, the Gaza issue, a God situation, your train situation, China, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but again, they're still keeping driving how do we make it, you know, I think brands in general,

[00:11:32] I don't say all brands, but pretty much feel like if they're not producing their product overseas or leading some money on the table. And what I'm hoping in the work that we're doing

[00:11:43] a matter of fact with UNC business school is let's put a call, let's put a price on that 30% let's put a price on that lack of transparency, you know, we end up with that all the

[00:11:54] stuff we find out we have a pair that's made by the Wiggers in China and nobody knew about it. And then there's two light now. So I think yes, I think the biggest problem is because of a globalization

[00:12:05] and just what's happening right now with the Suez Canal and having to go around Africa is taking long to get here. So they're just having, you know, I'm here again. We don't work with those

[00:12:17] brand in some brands are like, you know, 12 to 18 months out in forecast. And I tell you at that point, I don't care how much you can pay your guessing. There's no way that you can turn

[00:12:28] away. You guys are going to be wearing or wives are going to be wearing 18 months from now. It's just a gas. So that's what they do. They just pat it and knowing that they're just going to dump it out the back.

[00:12:41] Well, we're talking here about some pretty big global issues here. So let's try to bring that down to your company and what you guys do to try to have some impact on that. And then

[00:12:54] it's going to take more than you in your company. But you know, we're planning a flag and trying to make sure people understand these issues. And you're actually trying to do something about it. So you pursue a strategy that you call the triple bottom line called people

[00:13:10] planet and profit. So what does that mean to you in your company? Well, again, Jeff, that goes back to, you know, having a business that since I started while was in the city, overnight, destroyed by the idea of, it's making it do a

[00:13:25] matter. And I was a very, very early adopter to that if a triple bottom line. Because I think it's into the day we do have an obligation and responsibility, not only to our shareholders or investors or whatever. It might be. But what do we do to the people

[00:13:42] that you know, that work here? The people that aren't supply chain. And then, in fact, we have a understanding. And I think that's more important than ever that we are responsible for that. So yes, we were a unerrulled doctor as I look out the window

[00:13:54] just from our just landscaping and how we, you know, treat the land. It looks more like a forest and it does a typical, you know, industrial business and industrial part. But again, I think it's just, it's just, we've been in it so long, Jeff.

[00:14:08] It's essentially built into our DNA. You know, everything we do as a business looks at that impact. Yes, what's the impact of the bottom line? But we realized too by not going overseas. We're going to make some sacrifices.

[00:14:21] And one of their sacrifices we made is those customers or solely interest in price. Probably will not do business with us because they'll get it cheaper. But as we come out, and again, this was a very, very hard conversation to have

[00:14:34] say the mid 90s where people said, wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, you went back, you know, we're able to take cotton from this image behind me. And we're able to, I like to say, we make a shirt.

[00:14:44] Dirk to shirt is what we, our tagline is. 700 miles, completely transparent, supply chain all in North Carolina. So anyway, we'd started that probably 15 plus years ago. And so early days, what would happen is, listen, what a minute.

[00:15:00] It cost too much. You know, why would I pay you that when I can get it over there? But then when we start digging deeper, you know, what is the environmental social impact of those choices and your laying off people and affecting their jobs

[00:15:12] and the environment? I like to say it's not that our product calls more. It's probably what you're buying is not price properly. And that's the thing that I was saying, and they're working on now with the business

[00:15:23] school down at UNC is, you know, when we throw around these terms of 90% of season, 30% closed it, don't make it reach up. What does that actually mean calls? Not the calls to you when you go by,

[00:15:36] but because I'd say two were not measuring the external negative cost of again those close to the dead. That really hurt you guys, those close to the desert. But it is a cost and so we need to start recognizing those costs and when

[00:15:51] they recognize those costs, then this whole thing about what the cost too much making the US, well, does it really? And so, but it's tough. I mean, you know, it's not a black and white answer and the challenge that we have

[00:16:04] from a consumer standpoint, if you're just giving an option of something, it's $10 and $5. Without any other information, of course you're going to buy the one at $5. We all do that. Our job, and what we like to say is

[00:16:18] our best customers and educated customer. And I have hope in the future when especially work with younger people with their asking those questions, but where's that made and how that made? I want to know that person. I want to contact that person. So we want, you know,

[00:16:32] I'm encouraged with the future, but also we've got a lot of ground to make up. And we don't have a lot of time in which to do it. Well, and you know, none of us wants to sit around and say, oh,

[00:16:47] global warming is a good thing because it's making people more sensitive about environmental issues and sustainability. No one wants to sit around and say, oh, there's some positive benefits from COVID is that people, you know,

[00:17:02] we were able to figure out how to make PPE masks and gowns and things here domestically. I mean, there might have been some positive things, but the negatives really outweigh them. So, I mean, are you seeing, you say you're talking to young people you're working with,

[00:17:20] the UNC business school, are you seeing more interest, more focuses is there a shift in consumer attitudes at this point in time with people being more open to saying, yeah, I'm on the pay more to get it made locally

[00:17:38] to work with companies that have more interest in our environment and focus on these things. Yes, so I think the consumer interest is growing. The challenge that we have is again when the parents you made that big transition to go overseas in the 90s

[00:17:58] and they've set up all their systems, you know, to basically how do we manufacture overseas? They're having a hard time pivoting back and I think part of that reason that a hard time pivoting back, they're not seeing or understanding all of their

[00:18:16] a cost of their impact. So, by the consumer is more engaged. I think the brands are less because again, they're trying to say, you know, not fully hell responsible for their, you know, global impact that they're having. And again, one thing I like to say is

[00:18:38] when you go outside of your market for product or service, your market can deliver your chain of system. And this is a perfect example. I think back to, you know, another scary fact in, I might miss a percentage a little bit but I think it's about 90

[00:18:53] percent, over 90 percent of the cotton that's grown in this country leaves this country somewhere along the supply chain. You know, it could be fabric, it could be yarn, it could be fabric, but very little stays all right here from and we got this great asset of cotton

[00:19:12] here. But very little of that stays in this country. Travels around the world so it comes back to your stores you can buy them. I mean, there's just something again, we're not going to put the

[00:19:22] genie back in the bottle when it comes to globalization before we can do a much better job with certain things. And again, we're very fortunate to have a business in North Carolina,

[00:19:31] which I like to say is that the intersection of agriculture and a peril, the best place in the world which has been neglected. And we've lost a lot of jobs because everybody says,

[00:19:42] it was too expensive. Let's define too expensive. And I think if you will have a different conversation. And I think opportunities are coming back here. Well, so if we've got folks that are listening to us have this conversation that

[00:19:59] might have, they might have their own business or think about starting a business and they might run into similar challenges that you face in terms of saying, hey, I'd love to make it here in the United States. But there's such a cost difference that it's a very,

[00:20:14] you know, it's a big hill to climb here. I mean, how have you been successful in positioning yourself so that your customers are saying, hey, it's worth paying a little bit more

[00:20:29] for this product that I know I can see how it's made. You talk about dirt to shirt. You're focused on using local materials. You're focused on making sure that your employees are paid a fair wage. But ultimately, you still have to make a compelling case to your

[00:20:49] consumer that hey, I've got a product that it's worth you paying and you shouldn't go down to Walmart and get that $5. You sure? Like I said, that is more valuable. And how do

[00:20:59] you go about making that case and how would have some of our listeners if they're in that facing that same challenge? What advice do you have for them? Well, one thing I like to say, Jeff is I told him my tag lines. Sustainability is a

[00:21:13] journey, not destination. And we've been on this journey since the big 90s and we'll be on this journey as long as I'm here and hopefully the next generation of TS's eyes will continue on. And part of that journey is, you know, it's

[00:21:28] not perfect. But being aware of your impact, how you can change that impact and move forward. But I mean, what I like to say is, I'll meet anybody along the spectrum back to a parallel where they are, what they're doing. It might just, you know, maybe

[00:21:45] they can't make the full long, you know, come back to North Carolina. But maybe we can do some stuff and add some value add to it. And let's just start, you know, developing that relationship, understand the value that we can bring to them. But I do think the

[00:22:00] thing that that what we can do is we can bring back speed to market that we've lost by going global. But again, truth with all businesses is just there's no silver bullet solution to sustainability. But it starts with just being aware

[00:22:17] and then communicating, connect with people. It takes a community. There's not one person as all the answers. So how do you find those people that can help? I mean, we've got wind, we've got solar, we still need a body, so back here. Yes, we did it to test

[00:22:31] design. Yes, so it was involved in it. But I can tell you there were a lot more other people, including myself that help us do those projects and move those projects forward. So it's getting finally that community. Again, it's the

[00:22:43] manufacturing solution center, you know, the, the novenits that's up there. I mean, we're working on some projects with them. And just the collaboration, you know, we're just one little speck in this supply chain. And it's never been our goal to like just

[00:22:58] control it all. You know, we got a great relationship with a cotton farmer. I'll say probably 18 years now. I mean, do a phenomenal job. I need you to just an enroll in the Kotler and I can trust them. And that's a nice thing too

[00:23:09] with these local supply chains. I want to touch based on you develop relationships beyond a PO when you're in a global marketplace. I'm just sitting a PO to you and you execute it. You get the good quality. But if that's my only

[00:23:24] depth with you, somebody else says, hey, I can do it. She, there's no depth to that relationship other than that one transaction. I know this third generation cotton and working that out with the third generation start off with the second generation

[00:23:40] cotton farmer. I know their family have been there, been to their home, been to the form. And I said it for the whole supply chain. And the value of that is when, you know, the times are tough or you need a favor or things that go exactly right.

[00:23:54] As you've got a relationship beyond just this, you know, PO to this person halfway around the world that you've never met, 90, can't even talk to language. Many times on different is just you lose a lot there and they're just to me.

[00:24:07] Relationships are so critical, especially in the peril industry because we all know there's a lot of steps that happen from that cotton feel to that t-shirt that's easier this back in my plant is being produced.

[00:24:20] So, I know one of the things that you focus on is transparency about where your materials come from or your products come from. You actually have a website that I think is called where you're clothing dot com. That's correct.

[00:24:37] Where W-H-E-R-E you're clothing dot com. Tell us a little bit about what people can see there and you know why did you do that? Well, again I think no when it's at least 15 years ago when we developed the idea

[00:24:53] of working with a cotton farmer. And this again came out of NAFTA when I realized we're not going to be the low-cost producer. And I said wait a minute, we grow great cotton here nor kill on. Let's connect with that cotton.

[00:25:04] I knew then as I know now, you know, we're not going to ever grow cotton. That's not what we do or make sense or whatever. But I went down and met at that

[00:25:16] and now it was Ronnie at the time. Ronnie's in his mid 70s. I entered front of the farm. I'm here when I first met him. He says you know why in the heck is a little

[00:25:25] bit of company just as I was in broad and working on coming down here with my mom because she can buy all of the cotton t-shirts. At that time, it was a 1-800 number now just go to website. Anyway, and I said I want to make sure

[00:25:37] we can control where that cotton goes. Only there is a bite. And then we have smart tin that takes it from the field to the gym, the gym to the spin, the thinning got so all the way through. And so we knew how do we

[00:25:52] not just say hey it's cotton to kill on us and we originally started off with contrasting thread in the sleeve and in the hem of the shirt. And so you take those two little colors to the website where you're going to call in.com. You

[00:26:07] put them in there and here's the map that the shirt was made. Because again, sometimes we use a different spinner or a different net or whatever. All in the Carolinas but it can move around. And then during COVID, we all got used to those

[00:26:20] scanning QR codes, the restaurants as well. Let's just put a QR code in our shirt which we did. So basically we've had print in the back of the neck. So you scan that and then you go to everybody in the supply chain. But at that

[00:26:35] location, again use the farmers example, you get a picture, a phone number, a physical dress and email of everybody's, oh you just go to the website. There's my permission to go there. And again what I like to say is I'm not

[00:26:48] saying we're perfect. I'm not saying they're room not for improvement but just not going to be in secrets where our sheet is made. Try that with any other apparel you can buy or see at best. You'll get made in and

[00:27:03] but that made in could be made in USA with importive hardware. They don't bring fabric up from it. It is just a black box of mystery that black boxes with their consequences and the problems. And we're fortunate

[00:27:17] that we're able to have it all right here. So literally we get my car. Everybody's supply chain in one day. That's pretty cool. Pretty cool. Now one thing that I'm really enjoying learning a little bit about with your

[00:27:34] company is that you've gotten pretty creative in terms of figuring out ways to do natural dyes. And you guys were involved with this beanie, the merigold beanie where you are getting flowers from a brewery, I think and I know

[00:27:53] you're working on some sort of dye using acorns. Is that correct or black black black black black? I don't know. I'm sorry. The thing from burn right now. Okay. I mean, how do you do do you do?

[00:28:04] That's interesting. Do you have a man scientist on your staff or how do you come up with this stuff? No, but I mean, that was again that was during COVID. A lot of things happened. We had to really kind of read, look at our business.

[00:28:16] What we're going to do. So one thing we did during COVID, we launched testes, our minds, our business. So we launched a direct consumer retail brand called Solicity Clothing. And testes our minds for years

[00:28:30] has always been for small business. We spend a lot of money on R&D. But again, a lot of people don't want to do it. They see that they don't understand the expense of time where we do it. But we've never had a way

[00:28:43] to how do we engage the consumer that wants to support us. But basically, it came out of 1000 t-shirts. So Solicity was created. We're very affectionate during that. And she's highlighted in this Marigobini that was our state magazine style property year

[00:29:03] in 2023 and Courtney Lockhammer was our spokesperson on that. When she came on board of test signs during COVID, she had a natural dive background in interest. So when we launched Solicity on the background, let's start looking at natural dots. The first thing we

[00:29:24] realized is majority of natural dots, the materials are basically being coming from other countries, right here. So Marigob was the first and way did way. We can grow it here. We can process it. We can create a great product. Fast-forward what happened now, we're

[00:29:40] super excited about what we call the Black Wallenut project. And we will be working with a group of MBA students at a University of Montana this spring and summer to document these revenue channels. But what we've determined is, and I don't have all the

[00:29:57] exact numbers. But there's millions if not billions of pounds of Black Wallenut falls on the ground. If you know him about Black Wallenut, when you pick them up they get out and it's at nasty stuff on outside shell. That's what we want for the dots. And then we've

[00:30:10] already partnered up with another country. It will be able to take that husk off and then you take the woody part. We can use that as an operation and hand cleaners which are already developing. Then you

[00:30:22] actually get the nut that we all want. And so we're going to map out these revenue channels. And so we've determined not all the brown dial we ever want. So we're trying to the biggest challenge

[00:30:34] you can actually dive is it's kind of a hit or miss, not a very controlled science. We want to bring consistency and capacity to grow that. And now we've got a resources essentially free. And so we want to, you know, how do we harvest that and build

[00:30:53] the system? So that's going to be happening this year. And then again we do a black wall on a t-shirt on solid state again that keep supporting and promoting that story. But I think there's we've got a

[00:31:06] dog garden that we're holding in it to get its designs identify other plant material that we can use. We did a project with hemp leaves last year. So I think that we're just scratching the surface on what we can do with natural dyes. That can be

[00:31:20] cultivated in the Carolines. And so we're super. Well really create it. Yeah. Well, Eric you you've been at this for a while and as we sort of wind up a little bit, you know, what sort do you have advice for folks

[00:31:37] business owners to, you know, looking to make sure their businesses are going to be around a while. You know, a sustainability probably has a few different meanings for you but just in terms of extending your business and trying to

[00:31:49] make sure you're going to be around a while. What's her advice? Do you have for other business owners? Well, one thing I've learned in 44 years and it's more, you know, businesses constantly changing. So if you don't have your eyes open and

[00:32:04] looking forward, you're going to get run over and the other thing is as a center where it takes a community. I mean again, shout out to what you do, Jeff, manufacturing solutions center. I mean, you all have done some testing for us who

[00:32:18] make it a product for us. So you just, you know, it's very hard unless you're a tailor switch and you just have talent and everybody pays you for that talent. She got a pretty big crew behind her too though, I mean. But she's the voice

[00:32:35] you know what she says goes. I mean, for us we're part of a very complicated system and we need to stay connected and work with that. So it's just you got to put yourself out there. You got to be willing to adapt and change. And

[00:32:50] what is, again, it's one of those things I kind of like live too. We're lucky that I started a business in the NC State, 1976. I started, I started business then I merged with TS as I was. And having started a business that

[00:33:06] the resources for my business can be done in this area. I get so much gratitude for because I know it's sometimes you might say easier from the standpoint of checking the boxes in a global economy. But to me, the value of connecting

[00:33:23] with community and understanding the people that make it beyond the peos I said earlier, just being so much to us and to TS designs. Well, we appreciate you sharing the TS design story and having a chance to talk about

[00:33:39] how you've been able to compete in a global marketplace and do it locally. So, you know, Kudos to you and very impressive. It's a story that I hope people can take some lessons and inspiration from as as they're listening. So if people want to

[00:33:58] find out more about TS designs, where should they be looking? Well, I'm going to say that. I have a very simple TS and Tom S is in Sam, Designs, DESIG, NS dot column. Okay. I have a burning question. Okay.

[00:34:16] It's tied to NC State and he's a Carolina fan. I think he might have spent a little time at both. I was going to say I was going to say he's giving shout out to both of them. Oh, yeah. It's interesting

[00:34:31] to say that because yes. And again, we're very fortunate to have those great universities in our background because we've got a lot of work at UNC and NC State, NC State, you know, they've got school textiles, Agschool and then the Carolina's Business School. So yeah.

[00:34:47] I mean, then we got Cotton Corporation. We just got all these great institutions, organizations that are out there. But you know, again, you have to engage with them. But the thing I found with the universities is that they love to,

[00:35:02] you know, especially get their students engage in real world stuff and not just, you know, reading from a textbook or something like that. But we're just very fortunate to have those relationships and institutes in our community. And I think the one thing they can always bring together

[00:35:19] is our hatred of Duke. Well, yes. That includes the black and gold for Winston Salon, of course. I noticed that they didn't get to get to any coup ds. I have to do it, which we appreciate. Yes. Yeah, we appreciate.

[00:35:31] Especially this week. So anyway, so the lesson learned is make sure your collegiate allegiance is important to you. But you want to make sure for a business standpoint, you use all the resources that are available to build your future. Build your network right there.

[00:35:44] Build your network, nurture network. They must be there. Your network needs you. Don't always feel like you're taking from them when they need something put yourself out. It's a two way street. Well, we we very much appreciate you joining us today.

[00:35:59] We always like to do a little lightning round with our guests. You up for a little lightning round with us today. Sure. Let's try. Well, yeah, today we're taping this on Groundhog Day. So so in on our Groundhog day, our lightning round is sponsored by Ned Ryerson Insurance.

[00:36:15] Whole life auto flood home. You can't have enough insurance. Stay safe with red Ned Ryerson insurance and you should check out Ned Ryerson on the internet. So Eric, we've got some quick questions. Quick answers. Don't overthink it. First question.

[00:36:31] Yeah, and this might go back to your your beer co-op. But what is your adult beverage of choice? Oh, of course. And beer from Burlington beer. I mean, do you have a particular one or you an L guy, a log of guy, an IPA guy,

[00:36:44] what's your choice there? I go in the air and I say, what all I look like today. You know, we got the GZ 13 beers on tap. This is, you look like this today. So I always going to open mine and then give me a great beer.

[00:36:57] So I have no preferences. So so as long as it's called. Yeah. Cold and fresh and local. Beatles are rolling stones for you. Oh, rolling stones and our opportunity to see them for my 40th birthday. And like the front row. So definitely a stones fan.

[00:37:16] The watch's a beetle fan. I'll let her okay. Of course. Beatles are okay. Come on. Let's let's come over with. All right. But stones are still at it, man. They're giving us hope for some reason. This is true. They're still doing it.

[00:37:30] Yeah. I don't know if Keith Richards looks like he's a, you know, a mommy, but he's doing it. If you were an Olympic athlete, what sport would you compete in? The marathon. I've been doing it a long time. Yes, I like our business. I just keep on going.

[00:37:47] Who is your a pick to win this year? Super ball. Oh, my gosh. I like to say a change about things that Chiefs are going to do again. Last question for you. If you had to pick a spirit animal, what would it be? A spirit animal.

[00:38:05] I don't know why Wolf Bob jumped in my mind, but a wolf. I don't know why that came up with. You said, what's helping my mind? That's not a bad one. All right. All right.

[00:38:14] Well, you can find out more about T.S. designs as Eric said at T.S. on the back.com. You can go to their website and see a lot of the cool stuff you're doing.

[00:38:24] I think actually at one point when I was out there, Eric, I wanted to over a TED talk that you might have done several years ago as well. I don't know if that was our link in or T.S.

[00:38:34] I don't know if that was our link in or T.S. I don't know if it's not in the tech talk. I'll let you on your verseting many years ago, especially doing the other one in that COVID thing got in the way. So I've done that.

[00:38:46] But what, Jeff, before leave, I got out of gotta give a shout out to Molly and Sarah and industrial commons and then all the other people that I'll probably forget manufacturer solutions and center. NC State, Gaston College for the National Science Foundation, Inject Grant.

[00:39:10] Congratulations. This is going to be a game changer and necessary funding for the apparel future. So I'm just so excited and honored and just congratulations to all the people up here. Neckah was if we're anticipated to make this happen. Thank you very much.

[00:39:28] What Eric is referring to is that the National Science Foundation in the last week or so announced that they would be funding

[00:39:36] to grant what they call an engine to help create a sustainable textile economy based here in Western North Carolina and Eric contributed to presentations as the National Science Foundation evaluated that and the industrial commons in Morgan to North Carolina.

[00:39:56] Maybe we'll get them on our podcast at some point in time.

[00:39:59] All right. Was the lead organization and sort of orchestrated it so Sarah Chester and Molly Hemstreet get some shout out for that at the end of our podcast, we always like to give a shout out to small businesses Eric.

[00:40:12] I don't know if you got anybody you want to to give any kudos to. I mean, you've already talked about the the broling to beer co-op. We're going to be checking them out. You got anything else you want to know.

[00:40:23] Now I'll give a shout out to a good friend of mine. Your neck would got carpenter bare fiber. God known for. Good gracious. Another 20 plus years, but he we're very fortunate to have God not only North Carolina.

[00:40:37] His business and we're working to him, but he's a leader and on the front of bringing industrial hand back to the US and again big shout out to him.

[00:40:46] Working on some prosecutes for the end and we wouldn't be we wouldn't be with him in the States if it weren't the God did so thank you Mr. Carby he's very tireless about no doubt about it.

[00:40:58] Gary, you got a small business. You want to give a shout out to I do and kind of fits in my real house of the things that I talk about and are business at the month.

[00:41:10] So it was going to visit my daughter and grandchildren in Charleston area some are voted be exact and we went to dinner at pages Oak or grill.

[00:41:21] Oak or grill and you would you would not have expected that to come out of Gary Mueller's mouth is I'm pretty straightforward hot dogs and burgers and pizza.

[00:41:30] Yeah exactly but they took me there to their new restaurant actually before I go there started his food trucks. I think it's interesting they started the business food truck in Mount Pleasant right outside Charleston and basically they use the food trucks to test the market and so they also did a food truck in the summerville area and it's great it's good down home southern food known for their seafood.

[00:41:59] But they have a nice setting they put around their restaurants and the food's great and I had a vegetable and they have great desserts. And so if you eat the vegetables you're allowed to go heavy on the dessert.

[00:42:11] I know so it was a great combination so there was something for everybody there in a grace great setting.

[00:42:17] All sounds good. You know I'll have to check with you we've got a we got a wedding on the dock at in Charleston this summer so I'll have to get some additional recommendations from you as well.

[00:42:28] We love Charleston. All right. I'm going to give a shout out to a company and I'm wondering if Eric has heard of them but it's a company called American roots in Portland main and

[00:42:41] I was I was reading an op-ed piece and written by a woman named Rachel Slade and she's just come out with a book called Making It in America that really talks about the challenges that this company American roots has had in

[00:42:57] doing fleece and t-shirts in a peril in Portland main. And I think that been some of through some similar challenges that we've been through here in North Carolina where they saw their apparel industry disappear and

[00:43:14] Phil named Ben Waxman who had grown up in Portland main moved away came back in 2013 and his mom had an apparel business when he was growing up and he decided that he wanted to restart the business and

[00:43:29] I think that's a great American made products and he's slowly and surely been able to do that and they're now in his wife are running the company. They do fleece, they do cotton, slight weight jerseys

[00:43:42] One of the big challenges that they've had is putting a workforce together and making sure that they're paying them a livable wage and I've been creating industrial sewing programs there similar to what the industrial comments doesn't more content to create a workforce so

[00:44:00] You know just felt like a very cool company they've also found a way to do it here in the United States and if you go to American roots where W-E-A-R.com you can learn about them so

[00:44:12] Check them out and you get a chance very cool. So anyway, we appreciate Eric thank you so much for joining us today

[00:44:20] We really appreciate you coming on and sharing information about what you're up to and we want to give big thanks to the mesh podcast network as always for hosting us.

[00:44:32] You can check them out at the mesh.tv and see a whole bunch of different cool podcasts that they're doing from Business to comedy to sports to all sorts of things and so check them out at the mesh.tv

[00:44:47] And Gary will look forward to coming back next month and doing it. Looking forward to this was great. Thanks Eric, we appreciate you Gary Jeff, thank you so much for the opportunity to have a great rest of week and remember important coheels.

[00:45:01] I can even say that this is again. I'll go guys. You've been listening to the mesh and online media network of shows and programs ranging from business to arts sports to entertainment Music to community. Our programs are available on the website as well as through iTunes and YouTube.

[00:45:39] Check us out online at the mesh.tv. Just go to our other network shows and give us feedback on what you just heard.